Hesitate to fire Gailey

[win4ever]

The entire offense is built on one on one match ups with zone blocking scheme.  The one thing that is actually decent about this team is the offense besides the QB.  Since we are in a rebuild, let's look at the players.

Brandon Marshall:  He's scheme versatile, No. 1 WR in any scheme, but he's also getting old and he can't be in the long term plans beyond a couple of years.  Assuming Gailey gets fired, we'd be looking at a rebuild so the timeline extends past a couple of years.  

Eric Decker:  Another scheme versatile guy, same as before with Marshall.  

Quincy Enunwa:  He's more a spread system guy because he beats one on one match ups with his size/speed combo.  He's not a precise route runner right now, and he isn't going to beat double teams.  He's been very good because teams can't focus attention on him with Marshall, and because a spread system allows for more space, which helps him get open.  

Robby Anderson:  Another spread guy because he's not going to win physical match ups.  He needs one on one looks in space, where he can use his speed and length to his advantage.  Again, at this point not a precise route runner.  

Charone Peake:  Another guy, coming from a spread look that uses size/speed combination.  Remember how raw Enunwa looked his first couple of years?  That's how Peake would look if it wasn't for the spread, because again, size/speed.   

Devin Smith:  A speed and deep ball specialist, who also benefits from wide open spaces, and played in a spread in college.  He's another one that doesn't have precise route running.   

Jalen Marshall:  He's another one that doesn't run great routes, but can win one on one match ups.  

Matt Forte:  He won't be here long term, so it doesn't matter.  

Bilal Powell:  He's gotten much better the last year and a half, and it's mainly because he can use his speed on full throttle now.  He's not the type to be patient behind a line and find holes, rather more of an attack the open space type runner.  

Offensive line:  This one is more malleable but they have drafted recently with a zone blocking mindset, and that's been the system used for 2 years now.   So some guys may not even fit, which would require even more resources to fix the line.  

We've seen Enunwa, Powell improve by leaps and bounds the last couple of years and that's because a spread system is based around athletes.  You figure out the one on one match ups and you attack that, and these guys with size/speed combinations are built to win those match ups more often than not.  A big part of why the system sucks is because the QB sucks.  We all saw how bad Ryan Fitzpatrick was this year.  Bryce Petty played conservatively last week, given that it was a close game.  

Almost all of out offensive talent is geared towards a spread system, so whoever replaces Gailey has to run a similar spread system.  Now there are guys who run very good spread systems that might become available (Guz Malzhan for instance) but none of the systems work without a good QB.

It also behooves the Jets to see how Petty/Hackenberg translate on the field.  As I've been saying for months, the spread system expands the defense horizontally, so they are weak vertically.  It's the rubber band effect.  However, Fitzpatrick couldn't throw deep at all, so the defense didn't have to worry about the vertical aspect.  I would like to see a few games with Petty to see how defenses react with the deep pass.  It's hard to judge a player from one week, so a good long look is warranted.  

While the defense hasn't improved a shred since last year, the offense has given tangible improvements with both Powell and Enunwa, holdovers from the last OC.  Also, very low valued draft guys in Anderson, Peake, and Marshall have proven to be useful in the field, which indicates a much smoother transition than before.  

Does Bailey get too cute sometimes?  Absolutely, but I think there is enough evidence to hold onto him for now, until a QB that can throw the deep pass comes along.  If Petty/Hackenberg fails long term, then yes, move on from him.  However, the QB situation for Gailey was the exact opposite of ideal for the system with Fitzpatrick, so I can't put the whole blame on him, plus the debut game of Petty.   

[AFJF]

Gailey is far from the problem with this offense.  Could he be better?  Sure...how many coaches can't?

[joewilly12]

We cant score in the red zone we are one of if not the worst offensive team in the NFL. 

I say Chan Gailey and the entire coaching staff needs to go. 

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

We cant score in the red zone we are one of if not the worst offensive team in the NFL. 

I say Chan Gailey and the entire coaching staff needs to go. 

You can say it, but it doesn't make you right.

Wide open receivers being missed by the QB's all day isn't the fault of the OC.

[joewilly12]

Just now, AFJF said:

You can say it, but it doesn't make you right.

Wide open receivers being missed by the QB's all day isn't the fault of the OC.

Our offense is terrible for many reasons yes but Gialey is a part of it. 

[AFJF]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Our offense is terrible for many reasons yes but Gialey is a part of it. 

His job is to put players in position to make plays.  He has done that regularly...he is far from the problem.

 

[joewilly12]

Just now, AFJF said:

His job is to put players in position to make plays.  He has done that regularly...he is far from the problem.

 

He calls sh*tty plays too many delayed handoffs, shuffle passes,3rd and long draw plays etc etc 

[AFJF]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

He calls sh*tty plays too many delayed handoffs, shuffle passes,3rd and long draw plays etc etc 

Right...they should only hire one of the many coordinator's whose plays never fail.

SOJ

[joewilly12]

Just now, AFJF said:

Right...they should only hire one of the many coordinator's whose plays never fail.

SOJ

After Petty completed that long pass play on Sunday how more times did we go downfield.  Gailey is an old bum who thinks he's coaching in the 90"s. 

[AFJF]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

After Petty completed that long pass play on Sunday how more times did we go downfield.  Gailey is an old bum who thinks he's coaching in the 90"s. 

I know you only half pay attention to this team so that you can come on here and trash them after the fact.  If you'd listened to Petty's own words in his post-game presser, when asked what he did poorly, you would have heard him say that too often he checked down to a safety valve before letting plays develop.  

What that means is, there were players still running routes down the field, working to get open, when Petty gave up on the play and dumped it off.  There were plays designed to go down the field more than they did  because of Petty and he said so himself.

Chan can only do so much.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

I know you only half pay attention to this team so that you can come on here and trash them after the fact.  If you'd listened to Petty's own words in his post-game presser, when asked what he did poorly, you would have heard him say that too often he checked down to a safety valve before letting plays develop.  

What that means is, there were players still running routes down the field, working to get open, when Petty gave up on the play and dumped it off.  There were plays designed to go down the field more than they did  because of Petty and he said so himself.

Chan can only do so much.

Chan calls a boring game.  Chan is old fashioned. Chan doesn't open things up. Chan needs to go. 

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Chan calls a boring game.  Chan is old fashioned. Chan doesn't open things up. Chan needs to go. 

Again, quite clear that you don't watch the games.

[joewilly12]

Just now, AFJF said:

Again, quite clear that you don't watch the games.

We must be watching different games then I see a predictable slow paced offense where we dont score many points and lose games. 

[AFJF]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

We must be watching different games then I see a predictable slow paced offense where we dont score many points and lose games. 

The OP was 100% correct.  You are 100% wrong.

[joewilly12]

Just now, AFJF said:

The OP was 100% correct.  You are 100% wrong.

Nope 3-7 and rankings near the bottom of the NFL in every category prove me 100% correct and you in denial. 

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Nope 3-7 and rankings near the bottom of the NFL in every category prove me 100% correct and you in denial. 

Wide open receivers are wide open recievers, like it or not.  QB's misfiring passes or bailing on a play too early isn't on Gailey.

 

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

Wide open receivers are wide open recievers, like it or not.  QB's misfiring passes or bailing on a play too early isn't on Gailey.

 

Yes because we missed out on 100 TD's because of this. 

[AFJF]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Yes because we missed out on 100 TD's because of this. 

Not quite 100, but easily 10 this season.

If you watched the games you'd know this.

[joewilly12]

Just now, AFJF said:

Not quite 100, but easily 10 this season.

If you watched the games you'd know this.

Gailey sucks like it or not. He calls all the wrong plays our offense is the slowest and most predictable in the NFL. 

[Fibonacci]

26 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

We cant score in the red zone we are one of if not the worst offensive team in the NFL. 

I say Chan Gailey and the entire coaching staff needs to go. 

Joe

I am with you on Bowles but Gailey has done a decent job so far. Receivers are wide open sometimes and Fitzy just misses them. 

[elgoman]

I don't know of Gailey is to blame or if the QB is just not good enough. His play calling, albeit conservative, looked alright when Geno played. He didn't check down much either so I think the problem is Petty not Gailey.

[Beerfish]

I think he will resign and retire after this year.  Just a feeling.

[win4ever]

33 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Gailey is far from the problem with this offense.  Could he be better?  Sure...how many coaches can't?

Yeah, I agree, he's not perfect, but the offensive scheme is pretty much the only thing that is a positive on this team.  I would really like to see him with a good QB though, one that throws the ball down the field.  

I was writing up the Petty film partially last night, and Petty got confused with the various looks of the Rams defense.  It wasn't good play calling, but they did try to protect him because it's a very good defense.  

26 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

He calls sh*tty plays too many delayed handoffs, shuffle passes,3rd and long draw plays etc etc 

He does try to get cute, but a lot of times, those 3rd and long plays don't get converted anyway, no matter who the OC is.  

10 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Not quite 100, but easily 10 this season.

If you watched the games you'd know this.

Yeah, Fitz might lead the league in missed TD throws this season while being locked in on people.  One thing I did notice was that, Petty does a much better job at progressions.  There is one play, he missed a cutting Enunwa, where he was locked in on the safety in the middle of the field, until the last second, trying to get Enunwa running room, but misfired on the throw.  I thought that was great use of his eyes to hold the safety, which would really help Enunwa get some yards after the catch.  Unfortunately, he missed the throw, lol.

5 minutes ago, Fibonacci said:

Joe

I am with you on Bowles but Gailey has done a decent job so far. Receivers are wide open sometimes and Fitzy just misses them. 

I can't stand Bowles mainly because he seems to be a pushover.  Almost like a substitute teacher that doesn't really want to ruffle the feathers.  And for being a defensive coach, all of our stars have seemed to regress under him.  

2 minutes ago, elgoman said:

I don't know of Gailey is to blame or if the QB is just not good enough. 

The QB play has been horrible.  I highlight it each week, and it gets frustrating to watch, lol. 

[Jetdawgg]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I think he will resign and retire after this year.  Just a feeling.

I have the same feeling. I hope that we are wrong.

[Integrity28]

50 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Gailey is far from the problem with this offense.  Could he be better?  Sure...how many coaches can't?

Gailey won games with Tyler Thigpen at QB, and he let that guy throw the ball all over the place. I'm skeptical about Gailey being the reason we run for 2 yards on the first 2 downs of every series. The team is being run as though there's a widespread panic about committing more INTs. Reminds me of the red, yellow, green system under Rex, when they over-reacted to Sanchez making mistakes... and ruined him.

[Integrity28]

38 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Again, quite clear that you don't watch the games.

This.

[Warfish]

Marshall the Senior - Frequent drops kill us dead.   Good enough when he catches it.

Decker - Fragile as a china vase.  Good enough when he's healthy.

Enunwa - Good, strong, good blocker, solid #3/H-back/TE-Replacement possession guy.  Keeper.

Anderson - Small and weak with questionable hands.  Long bomb wide-open speed guy only.

Peake - JAG

Marshall the Younger - JAG who fumbles alot

Smith - you mean Geno Smith right?  We have a guy named Smith on the team who plays WR?  Who knew.  /endsarcasm

Forte - Worthless 1-2 yard grinder who stat pads with a rare (meaningless) 20 yarder in the midfield, useless in redzone.  

Powell - Today's Version of LaMont Jordan.  Looks good occasionally when given a scant few carries/catches, but that's all he ever seems to offer.  

Fitz - Poop

Geno - Fragile poop.

Petty and Hack - Bah, who the hell knows.  

 

[Jetfan13]

Chan Gailey is a slacker, been one everywhere he has coached.  When we got him as OC I knew what we were getting. If you guys didn't you haven't been paying attention. He is another of old crappy coach that has had little or no success on NUMEROUS teams but still somehow manages to get another job. CAN HIM NOW! 

[PCP63]

I completely disagree. But I'll say one thing that really irks me when people refer to the spread offense. And that is that it's an offense that stretches the field vertically. Couldn't be further from the truth. They only refer to spread offenses as vertical stretches because of the verticals play, which is actually a HORIZONTAL stretch. The spread offense SPREADS the field horizontally with both formations and play-calling (though, ironically, the spread formations are actually worse at spreading the field horizontally, IMO). Regarding what I put in parenthesis, tighter formations are better to spread defenses horizontally, as the defenders have more open space they'll need to run to after the snap, and the defense must respect the run more, opening up the play-action game.

I could go on and on about misconceptions regarding the spread offense. You probably think I hate these "college" offenses, but I really don't. In fact, I believe someone like Paul Johnson could succeed in the NFL to a great extent.

[RoadFan]

Chan Gailey is doing just fine. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

We should totally sh*tcan Gailey and hire the OC who not only schemes WRs open weekly, but telekinetically places the ball from our sh*tty QBs hands into our wide-open WRs' hands. Oh and only calls successful plays, that's an obvious prerequisite. 

[joewilly12]

19 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Chan Gailey is doing just fine. 

NO he's not. He calls the sh*ttiest plays all damn game long and if and when we do get into the red zone we play for a FG. 

[jetfan39]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

Again, quite clear that you don't watch the games.

apparently he doesn't read what you write either.  he has a one track mind so please don't confuse him with the facts.  let's not upset his agenda

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, jetfan39 said:

apparently he doesn't read what you write either.  he has a one track mind so please don't confuse him with the facts.  let's not upset his agenda

Facts speak for themselves its not my fault many are in denial and defend everything wrong with the Jets meanwhile we are 3-7 and at the bottom of many categories in the NFL. 

[win4ever]

16 minutes ago, PCP63 said:

I completely disagree. But I'll say one thing that really irks me when people refer to the spread offense. And that is that it's an offense that stretches the field vertically. Couldn't be further from the truth. They only refer to spread offenses as vertical stretches because of the verticals play, which is actually a HORIZONTAL stretch. The spread offense SPREADS the field horizontally with both formations and play-calling (though, ironically, the spread formations are actually worse at spreading the field horizontally, IMO). Regarding what I put in parenthesis, tighter formations are better to spread defenses horizontally, as the defenders have more open space they'll need to run to after the snap, and the defense must respect the run more, opening up the play-action game.

I could go on and on about misconceptions regarding the spread offense. You probably think I hate these "college" offenses, but I really don't. In fact, I believe someone like Paul Johnson could succeed in the NFL to a great extent.

We'll agree to disagree on this aspect.  

I'm not saying the spread offense is based on vertical passing, but for the Gailey system works best with a downfield passing system.  There are plenty of spread systems that rely on short passes (Memphis, Air Raid, Oregon all run and do short passes) or even read option plays.  

The problem here is that, there is really no one to run spread option here, so we can take that out from the start.  So the next thing is the short passing game, taking advantage of the space created by horizontal space from the spread system.  A defense counters this by moving up the safeties (you will see a ton of single high safety looks with Fitz) so you have to stretch the defense vertically by going deep.  When teams are defending the spread for the short pass/running game, they are weaker on the deep aspect of the game.  If the team keeps running short plays, then the horizontal spread can't be taken advantage of because there are more players closer to the box.  

Paul Johnson thrives from a read option route, but we don't have anyone to even remotely run that offense because we don't have the mobile QB.  Even then, that system thrives with deep speed guys like Thomas, Hill, Smelter in the past because they could stretch the defense deep with deep passes.  It was actually one of the biggest problems with evaluating Hill for the draft, because he would be running down the field wide open because defenses were playing further up to defend the read option.  In this case, they don't need horizontal spacing, but most other spread systems do need the extra spacing, based on a non read option attack.  

Horizontal spacing also allows for throwing lanes, because defenses have a hard time switching.  The easy example recently is the missed TD by Petty.  On the play, the defense is switching with the outside corner going back to safety, while the slot corner switches to Robby Anderson.  The only weak spot in this defense is really a deep go route vertically.  If the formation is bunched, this switch is made much easier.  If the formation is spread horizontally, the slot CB (I believe Joyner) has to take an extra two steps to his left to line up with Anderson's path, at which point the WR was well behind him.