Hesitate to fire Gailey

[Persiussa]

Why bother to sit qbs on the bench for a year or 2 to learn and then fire the oc and make them start over again.  This whole regime needs to see a year 3. If next year looks like this one then we start over. Bowles needs to prove he can right a ship that's facing adversity and I don't think we can bail on him yet. 

[Charlie Brown]

2 hours ago, AFJF said:

You can say it, but it doesn't make you right.

Wide open receivers being missed by the QB's all day isn't the fault of the OC.

Thank you are we collectively INSANE!!!

We have the worst performing QB in the entire NFL and folks are blaming the OC!!!

Good Grief!!!

[Charlie Brown]

2 hours ago, AFJF said:

I know you only half pay attention to this team so that you can come on here and trash them after the fact.  If you'd listened to Petty's own words in his post-game presser, when asked what he did poorly, you would have heard him say that too often he checked down to a safety valve before letting plays develop.  

What that means is, there were players still running routes down the field, working to get open, when Petty gave up on the play and dumped it off.  There were plays designed to go down the field more than they did  because of Petty and he said so himself.

Chan can only do so much.

No!!!!!!

You are absolutely wrong on this one!!!

According to some out here Chan should not only design the plays but throw the football, run the routes and catch the ball as well!!!

Jets fans you can't make it up.  

[AFJF]

22 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you are we collectively INSANE!!!

We have the worst performing QB in the entire NFL and folks are blaming the OC!!!

Good Grief!!!

Exactly.  It's one thing if guys just aren't open and the QB has no options, but that hasn't been the case at all.  Chan is far from perfect and has made his share of questionable decisions, but he's been good enough that this team would have some more wins if not for the QB play.

[AFJF]

16 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

No!!!!!!

You are absolutely wrong on this one!!!

According to some out here Chan should not only design the plays but throw the football, run the routes and catch the ball as well!!!

Jets fans you can't make it up.  

If I was the OC, I would only call plays that get touchdowns.  Why doesn't he do that more often?  It's so easy!!!

[Ken Schroy]

Dump Bowles and make Gailey interim HC for the rest of the year. We could see just how much his hands were tied by Bowles.

[AFJF]

8 minutes ago, Ken Shroy said:

Dump Bowles and make Gailey interim HC for the rest of the year. We could see just how much his hands were tied by Bowles.

Might not be the worst idea in the world.  The next HC has to be an offensive guy with experience.  Enough of the experimental defensive guys who get to learn on the job with the Jets.

[Mogglez]

3 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

After Petty completed that long pass play on Sunday how more times did we go downfield.  Gailey is an old bum who thinks he's coaching in the 90"s. 

The next time he went deep he missed a wide open reciever.  He had plenty of other opportunities to go deep later on in the game and he was hesitant and chose to check down instead.  

[AFJF]

6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

The next time he went deep he missed a wide open reciever.  He had plenty of other opportunities to go deep later on in the game and he was hesitant and chose to check down instead.  

Don't fall in to the same trap I did.  He only glances at the game for a few seconds at a time between posts about Fitz's beard.

[ASH1962]

3 hours ago, win4ever said:

The entire offense is built on one on one match ups with zone blocking scheme.  The one thing that is actually decent about this team is the offense besides the QB.  Since we are in a rebuild, let's look at the players.

Brandon Marshall:  He's scheme versatile, No. 1 WR in any scheme, but he's also getting old and he can't be in the long term plans beyond a couple of years.  Assuming Gailey gets fired, we'd be looking at a rebuild so the timeline extends past a couple of years.  

Eric Decker:  Another scheme versatile guy, same as before with Marshall.  

Quincy Enunwa:  He's more a spread system guy because he beats one on one match ups with his size/speed combo.  He's not a precise route runner right now, and he isn't going to beat double teams.  He's been very good because teams can't focus attention on him with Marshall, and because a spread system allows for more space, which helps him get open.  

Robby Anderson:  Another spread guy because he's not going to win physical match ups.  He needs one on one looks in space, where he can use his speed and length to his advantage.  Again, at this point not a precise route runner.  

Charone Peake:  Another guy, coming from a spread look that uses size/speed combination.  Remember how raw Enunwa looked his first couple of years?  That's how Peake would look if it wasn't for the spread, because again, size/speed.   

Devin Smith:  A speed and deep ball specialist, who also benefits from wide open spaces, and played in a spread in college.  He's another one that doesn't have precise route running.   

Jalen Marshall:  He's another one that doesn't run great routes, but can win one on one match ups.  

Matt Forte:  He won't be here long term, so it doesn't matter.  

Bilal Powell:  He's gotten much better the last year and a half, and it's mainly because he can use his speed on full throttle now.  He's not the type to be patient behind a line and find holes, rather more of an attack the open space type runner.  

Offensive line:  This one is more malleable but they have drafted recently with a zone blocking mindset, and that's been the system used for 2 years now.   So some guys may not even fit, which would require even more resources to fix the line.  

We've seen Enunwa, Powell improve by leaps and bounds the last couple of years and that's because a spread system is based around athletes.  You figure out the one on one match ups and you attack that, and these guys with size/speed combinations are built to win those match ups more often than not.  A big part of why the system sucks is because the QB sucks.  We all saw how bad Ryan Fitzpatrick was this year.  Bryce Petty played conservatively last week, given that it was a close game.  

Almost all of out offensive talent is geared towards a spread system, so whoever replaces Gailey has to run a similar spread system.  Now there are guys who run very good spread systems that might become available (Guz Malzhan for instance) but none of the systems work without a good QB.

It also behooves the Jets to see how Petty/Hackenberg translate on the field.  As I've been saying for months, the spread system expands the defense horizontally, so they are weak vertically.  It's the rubber band effect.  However, Fitzpatrick couldn't throw deep at all, so the defense didn't have to worry about the vertical aspect.  I would like to see a few games with Petty to see how defenses react with the deep pass.  It's hard to judge a player from one week, so a good long look is warranted.  

While the defense hasn't improved a shred since last year, the offense has given tangible improvements with both Powell and Enunwa, holdovers from the last OC.  Also, very low valued draft guys in Anderson, Peake, and Marshall have proven to be useful in the field, which indicates a much smoother transition than before.  

Does Bailey get too cute sometimes?  Absolutely, but I think there is enough evidence to hold onto him for now, until a QB that can throw the deep pass comes along.  If Petty/Hackenberg fails long term, then yes, move on from him.  However, the QB situation for Gailey was the exact opposite of ideal for the system with Fitzpatrick, so I can't put the whole blame on him, plus the debut game of Petty.   

KC 3 points

ARI 3 points

LA 6 points

Pit 13 points

SEA 10 points (The final score read 17, however, 7 were off of a fluke play and do not count)

This offense is putrid. The OC is boring and too conservative. If they have all of this supposed talent like the OP says they do, then clearly there is some disconnect with the coaching.

IMO the only FO person who should survive this debacle is Mac. I understand football is about continuity, but how can anyone have any faith that Bowltite will get better? Have you heard his interviews with Michael Kay every week? When I hear him speak I want to take a hot knife and jam it into my left eye! I wish I could say I had the confidence to wait it out and allow him to get better, but I really and truly do not feel he will.

JMO, Mac should be the only one left standing after this horrific season, and should be allowed to make his mark and select his own coach. If that does not work out, then he goes too.

[Be_a_Jet]

I don't like how Gailey is so quick to get away from the run particularly in the redzone. However, I have no reservations when i say he is the best OC this team has had in the past decade. I don't want to see him go but i dont like Bowles - so i imagine Gailey will go when he goes. 

 

[PCP63]

3 hours ago, win4ever said:

We'll agree to disagree on this aspect.  

I'm not saying the spread offense is based on vertical passing, but for the Gailey system works best with a downfield passing system.  There are plenty of spread systems that rely on short passes (Memphis, Air Raid, Oregon all run and do short passes) or even read option plays.  

The problem here is that, there is really no one to run spread option here, so we can take that out from the start.  So the next thing is the short passing game, taking advantage of the space created by horizontal space from the spread system.  A defense counters this by moving up the safeties (you will see a ton of single high safety looks with Fitz) so you have to stretch the defense vertically by going deep.  When teams are defending the spread for the short pass/running game, they are weaker on the deep aspect of the game.  If the team keeps running short plays, then the horizontal spread can't be taken advantage of because there are more players closer to the box.  

Paul Johnson thrives from a read option route, but we don't have anyone to even remotely run that offense because we don't have the mobile QB.  Even then, that system thrives with deep speed guys like Thomas, Hill, Smelter in the past because they could stretch the defense deep with deep passes.  It was actually one of the biggest problems with evaluating Hill for the draft, because he would be running down the field wide open because defenses were playing further up to defend the read option.  In this case, they don't need horizontal spacing, but most other spread systems do need the extra spacing, based on a non read option attack.  

Horizontal spacing also allows for throwing lanes, because defenses have a hard time switching.  The easy example recently is the missed TD by Petty.  On the play, the defense is switching with the outside corner going back to safety, while the slot corner switches to Robby Anderson.  The only weak spot in this defense is really a deep go route vertically.  If the formation is bunched, this switch is made much easier.  If the formation is spread horizontally, the slot CB (I believe Joyner) has to take an extra two steps to his left to line up with Anderson's path, at which point the WR was well behind him.  

I'll address the rest of the post (that has some excellent points, I might add) later on, but one thing I do love about Johnson's offense, especially with the run game, is the horizontal displacement. When he couples ISV with his rocket toss, it works beautifully.

[win4ever]

10 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you are we collectively INSANE!!!

We have the worst performing QB in the entire NFL and folks are blaming the OC!!!

Good Grief!!!

Lol, the same OC that also revived the career of Fitzpatrick, who promptly fell on his face this year.  

I still have no idea why people think Fitzpatrick would do anything with this team. 

9 hours ago, ASH1962 said:

KC 3 points

ARI 3 points

LA 6 points

Pit 13 points

SEA 10 points (The final score read 17, however, 7 were off of a fluke play and do not count)

This offense is putrid. The OC is boring and too conservative. If they have all of this supposed talent like the OP says they do, then clearly there is some disconnect with the coaching.

IMO the only FO person who should survive this debacle is Mac. I understand football is about continuity, but how can anyone have any faith that Bowltite will get better? Have you heard his interviews with Michael Kay every week? When I hear him speak I want to take a hot knife and jam it into my left eye! I wish I could say I had the confidence to wait it out and allow him to get better, but I really and truly do not feel he will.

JMO, Mac should be the only one left standing after this horrific season, and should be allowed to make his mark and select his own coach. If that does not work out, then he goes too.

The offense is putrid because the QB play is putrid.  Each week I point out the bad throws and missed plays with Fitzpatrick.  This offense would be fine if we actually had a halfway decent QB.  Fitz was better last year, and we finished high in scoring.  He's worse this year (especially his progressions) and we fell through the floor.  

I have no faith in Bowles, mainly because he's a defensive coach that hasn't improved anything since he got here.   He's overly committed to his veterans, to a fault.  The locker room doesn't respect him, and he's quite possibly the worst game manager out there.  

The talent is there, but the QB play has to improve because teams aren't respecting the deep pass at all.  The Petty film review will be published tomorrow, and you'll see the Rams take chances on shorter routes.  They do need to take those risks, and I would like to see it in the final games.  Last game, Petty's debut against a good defense, I could see why they may have wanted to be conservative, but they need to establish the deep pass going forward.  If they do, I think this offense performs much better.  

7 hours ago, Be_a_Jet said:

I don't like how Gailey is so quick to get away from the run particularly in the redzone. However, I have no reservations when i say he is the best OC this team has had in the past decade. I don't want to see him go but i dont like Bowles - so i imagine Gailey will go when he goes. 

 

Bailey will go with Bowles most likely because any new coach would want his own coordinators.  However, I don't think Bailey is the problem unless he refuses to go deep in the next few games with Petty.  His play set up is actually very good, but Fitzpatrick was horrible for it because he has physical limitations.   

7 hours ago, PCP63 said:

I'll address the rest of the post (that has some excellent points, I might add) later on, but one thing I do love about Johnson's offense, especially with the run game, is the horizontal displacement. When he couples ISV with his rocket toss, it works beautifully.

It's a very good offense, unique.  I'm not sure if it works in the NFL because he needs some very specific personnel for it.  

I love the spread offense, wish more teams would incorporate it in the NFL.  

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, AFJF said:

Don't fall in to the same trap I did.  He only glances at the game for a few seconds at a time between posts about Fitz's beard.

Posts like his posts here are a good reminder of this.  Has to be the explanation because no one can know this little about the game.  

The amazing part is that the less he knows about a subject, the more loudly he tells us what is wrong and why.  

[jets rooter]

Gaily was a loser with buffalo and a few other teams.His schemes are easy to read.Get rid of him now.

[AFJF]

1 hour ago, jets rooter said:

Gaily was a loser with buffalo and a few other teams.His schemes are easy to read.Get rid of him now.

If they're so easy to read, why did the Jets offense, coordinated by Gailey, do such a good job of getting receivers wide open against Bill Belichick last season?  Is BB not smart enough to figure out his "easy" schemes?

[rangerous]

i've seen this team suffer with the offense since vinnie.  the last before last season it was any good was when chaddy was qb under hackjob and edwards.  and hackjob was run out of town to be replaced by heimerdinger.  then in came schitty and he was finally run out (with good cause because he was a weasel) and replaced with sparano and then morhinweg.  now we have gailey.  last season everyone liked gailey.  could it be that losing decker took more away from this offense than thought?

 

the point is the jets have had more offensive coordinators than coaches since parcells.  it's not all them (except for schitty).  and i do agree that the play calling on sunday was bad, but only for the personel the jets have.  i'd like to see then use the te position more as a receiver.

[56mehl56]

21 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

NO he's not. He calls the sh*ttiest plays all damn game long and if and when we do get into the red zone we play for a FG. 

When we do get in the redzone the sh*tty QB couldn't find a wr if he was using google maps.

[56mehl56]

20 hours ago, AFJF said:

Might not be the worst idea in the world.  The next HC has to be an offensive guy with experience.  Enough of the experimental defensive guys who get to learn on the job with the Jets.

I wouldn't mind a young experimental guy but form the damn offensive side of the tracks. Its been over a decade that we had defensive minded Hc's in a league that caters to offense. In 2025 we'll finally sign the hotshot OC and a HC and the NFL will revert the rules back to favor the defenses.

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

I wouldn't mind a young experimental guy but form the damn offensive side of the tracks. Its been over a decade that we had defensive minded Hc's in a league that caters to offense. In 2025 we'll finally sign the hotshot OC and a HC and the NFL will revert the rules back to favor the defenses.

fair enough not wanting a defensive coach but it's also fair to point out that the coaches who are dominating the game right now, bellichicken, carroll, tomlin, lewis, pagano, came from the defense side. imo it doesn't matter.  i do want a coach whose first head coaching job is the jets.