Tyrod Taylor Thoughts ...

[CanadaSteve]

14 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

This whole thread is a lollercoaster, but this post in particular deserves some kind of Nobel Prize for wrongness.

If you mean Tyrod Taylor is no better than Geno Smith, then yes this is a lollercoaster Nobel Prize winning wrong post, otherwise....

[Savage69]

19 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

If you mean Tyrod Taylor is no better than Geno Smith, then yes this is a lollercoaster Nobel Prize winning wrong post, otherwise....

Tyrod is 14-14 in games he started completing 62.3 of his passes and has 37 tds vs 14 picks..Geno is 12-18 in games started 57.9 in completion and has 28 tds and 36 picks.. Fish has a point they are dead even..

[dbatesman]

7 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Tyrod is 14-14 in games he started completing 62.3 of his passes and has 37 tds vs 14 picks..Geno is 12-18 in games started 57.9 in completion and has 28 tds and 36 picks.. Fish has a point they are dead even..

Geno Smith II

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Savage69 said:

Tyrod is 14-14 in games he started completing 62.3 of his passes and has 37 tds vs 14 picks..Geno is 12-18 in games started 57.9 in completion and has 28 tds and 36 picks.. Fish has a point they are dead even..

Yeah, not seeing the similarity.  Must be a SOJ(F) thing.

Speaking of which, how is wanting this QB a SOJ(F) thing?  What was wanting Fitz?

[Warfish]

5 hours ago, Savage69 said:

Tyrod is 14-14 in games he started completing 62.3 of his passes and has 37 tds vs 14 picks..Geno is 12-18 in games started 57.9 in completion and has 28 tds and 36 picks.. Fish has a point they are dead even..

Tell me, if Tyrod is so great, why is Buffalo, who has jack and sh*t at QB and hasn't won anything with Tyrod in place, so desperate to dump Tyrod that we (Jets Fans) have a thread pining to sign him?

Let me guess, "fair chance" and "weaponz" are all Tyrod needs, right?

Yeah.

[The Walrus]

8 hours ago, maury77 said:

I am aware that this may not be the best line of thinking, but if Taylor was so good, why would the Bills let him go? They have nothing behind him on the bench and they are picking in the middle of the first round, where there won't be an impact QB available. 

Additionally, what type of money will Taylor be looking to get? You saw the contract he signed in Buffalo. If he wanted to sign a contract for 2-3 years at 10 million p/y, I'd probably go along with it, but I suspect he will want much more. 

They are thinking of letting him go cause of the money and John Elway spoke about it last year with Brock Osweiler.

There seems to be no middle ground with QBs. Either they are cheap or they want $20M+ per year.

Elway was happy to keep Osweiler but not at the price of a QB who had actually accomplished something.

And that's the issue with Glennon, Taylor etc now. These guys aren't proven franchise QB's. But just because there is such a lack of supply of QB's with starting experience/some sort of ability, then the market seems to be willing to pay big money in desperation that the few good games they've played might translate into a franchise player.

FWIW, I think Taylor/Glennon/Petty/Cousins are good backup QBs right now. They could go out there if your main QB (if you have one) is hurt for a few games and win a few. Nothing wrong with that, I think a lot of teams don't value a backup as much they should be.

But teams paying $18+M for a player (regardless of the position) who they don't even know is the answer, sounds dumb just typing it.

[Freemanm]

On January 7, 2017 at 10:35 AM, Shadetree said:

Please, for the love of God, give me a pocket passer.

i vote to stick with petty and improve the defense and OL 

Petty is a backup, nothing more. The guy doesn't even know how to lead receivers, he spots an open receiver and throws the ball 100mph to him. I'm glad we played him to find out what we have, but as it turns out, it isn't much other than a backup. 

I think the Jets should swing a deal for Glennon. From what I've read, none of the draft picks are really worth a top 10 pick. 

[Maxman]

This is an absolute NO BRAINER to me. If he is a free agent, sign him and keep trying to develop the QB of the future. But there is no reason that we should have to sit through Hackenberg next year if they know he isn't any good. If they have a young guy that they feel can develop, sure let's skip on Taylor and play a kid. I just don't think they have that person.

[NoBowles]

5 minutes ago, Maxman said:

This is an absolute NO BRAINER to me. If he is a free agent, sign him and keep trying to develop the QB of the future. But there is no reason that we should have to sit through Hackenberg next year if they know he isn't any good. If they have a young guy that they feel can develop, sure let's skip on Taylor and play a kid. I just don't think they have that person.

He is going to be very expensive for many years. Unless you think he is a long term solution, I think it's crazy to sign him. He's not very good.

[Maxman]

27 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

He is going to be very expensive for many years. Unless you think he is a long term solution, I think it's crazy to sign him. He's not very good.

QBs are all expensive. Yet you can't win without one. They paid Fitz 12 million or so and he was terrible.

If they can't get him around 15 million a year, which I think is the average then do it. Macc is good with contracts that he can walk away from after a few seasons.

[NoBowles]

3 minutes ago, Maxman said:

QBs are all expensive. Yet you can't win without one. They paid Fitz 12 million or so and he was terrible.

If they can't get him around 15 million a year, which I think is the average then do it. Macc is good with contracts that he can walk away from after a few seasons.

15 mil per year for multiple years for this guy would be a colossal **** up.

Fitz was for one year, and he came off a better passing year then Taylor has ever sniffed.

I'm telling you, I've watched every one of Taylor's games closely, he is not a good QB. 

[Maxman]

2 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

15 mil per year for multiple years for this guy would be a colossal **** up.

Fitz was for one year, and he came off a better passing year then Taylor has ever sniffed.

I'm telling you, I've watched every one of Taylor's games closely, he is not a good QB. 

Thanks for the thoughts and the explanation.

I still want him. He doesn't turn the ball over, he is young and he can get better.

All of this depends on who our O\C is of course.

[Charlie Brown]

7 minutes ago, Maxman said:

QBs are all expensive. Yet you can't win without one. They paid Fitz 12 million or so and he was terrible.

If they can't get him around 15 million a year, which I think is the average then do it. Macc is good with contracts that he can walk away from after a few seasons.

I don't get it!!

Some of the same folks who were saying WE HAD TO SIGN FITZ are now saying that we shouldn't try and upgrade at QB!!!

It is NUTS to me...

[Maxman]

2 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

I don't get it!!

Some of the same folks who were saying WE HAD TO SIGN FITZ are now saying that we shouldn't try and upgrade at QB!!!

It is NUTS to me...

At worst Taylor is a hold the fort QB.

At best he could have some upside.

But he doesn't turn the ball over and that is huge.

Right now we have nothing at QB. So if Taylor becomes available, I am really curious to see what the plan is. Petty isn't going to get it done. And he is going to miss valuable offseason work as he recovers from a brutal injury.

[Savage69]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Tell me, if Tyrod is so great, why is Buffalo, who has jack and sh*t at QB and hasn't won anything with Tyrod in place, so desperate to dump Tyrod that we (Jets Fans) have a thread pining to sign him?

Let me guess, "fair chance" and "weaponz" are all Tyrod needs, right?

Yeah.

Fish I never said Tyrod was great he's just better then Geno IMO.. I want to see the Jets draft a QB and let him develop rather then sort through the trash of another team.. 

[NoBowles]

14 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

I don't get it!!

Some of the same folks who were saying WE HAD TO SIGN FITZ are now saying that we shouldn't try and upgrade at QB!!!

It is NUTS to me...

You really should get it, your a smart guy.

[NoBowles]

11 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Fish I never said Tyrod was great he's just better then Geno IMO.. I want to see the Jets draft a QB and let him develop rather then sort through the trash of another team.. 

Being better than Geno is not a barometer, we learned that last year. Taylor is not going to get signed to a hold the fort contract.

[NoBowles]

14 minutes ago, Maxman said:

At worst Taylor is a hold the fort QB.

At best he could have some upside.

But he doesn't turn the ball over and that is huge.

Right now we have nothing at QB. So if Taylor becomes available, I am really curious to see what the plan is. Petty isn't going to get it done. And he is going to miss valuable offseason work as he recovers from a brutal injury.

Do you know why he doesn't turn the call over? You may, I'm just not sure if people clamoring for him actually watch him or just look at his stats.

[CrazyCarl40]

11 minutes ago, Maxman said:

At worst Taylor is a hold the fort QB.

At best he could have some upside.

But he doesn't turn the ball over and that is huge.

Right now we have nothing at QB. So if Taylor becomes available, I am really curious to see what the plan is. Petty isn't going to get it done. And he is going to miss valuable offseason work as he recovers from a brutal injury.

You don't pay a "hold the fort" QB 15 million and multiple years. That's what it would take to get him as a Jet. And he's not worth it. In a passing league, barely averaging 200 yards passing a game is putrid. He's a guy who can get you to 7-9 or 8-8 but never take you to the next level. Unless you have a monster running game and defense, it's a mistake to get this guy. He's not a franchise QB and that's what this franchise desperately needs. 

[Charlie Brown]

18 minutes ago, Maxman said:

At worst Taylor is a hold the fort QB.

At best he could have some upside.

But he doesn't turn the ball over and that is huge.

Right now we have nothing at QB. So if Taylor becomes available, I am really curious to see what the plan is. Petty isn't going to get it done. And he is going to miss valuable offseason work as he recovers from a brutal injury.

i get it some of my fellow Jets fans are liteally shell shocked do to the constant losing....  

But here is an article based on facts not people's feelings on the matter.

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2016/12/21/14038058/tyrod-taylor-bills-2016-in-the-pocket-passing-statistics-will-probably-surprise-you

All season Tyrod Taylor has received plenty of criticism for what some call “inconsistency” passing from within the pocket, the time-tested indicator of quality quarterback play.

To me, a faction of that thought has arisen simply as an unavoidable byproduct of Tyrod’s amazing elusiveness and scrambling ability being compared to his in-the-pocket passing.

I was curious about Tyrod’s in-the-pocket passing numbers this season, so I reached out to Pro Football Focus writer and analyst Mike Renner, who graciously provided me with Taylor’s 2016 in-the-pocket passing statistics.

Yesterday on Twitter, we asked Rumblings readers to take their best guesses at Tyrod’s in-the-pocket passing statistics in the following categories:

 

Completion %

Yards Per Attempt

TDs / INT

We promised we’d provide Tyrod’s the passing statistics heading into Week 16’s game against the Dolphins. Here they are.

Completions/Attempts: 210/320

Completion %: 65.6

Yards: 2,363

Yards Per Attempt: 7.38

TDs: 12

INTs: 5

QB Rating: 93.5

Drops By Pass-Catchers: 18

Surprised? Yeah, I was too.

To give some perspective on Tyrod’s in-the-pocket figures, here are the quarterbacks and statistics (on all passes) to which he most closely compares.

Completion %: Russell Wilson, 65%. Matthew Stafford, 66.3%

 

Yards Per Attempt: Stafford, 7.34. Ben Roethlisberger, 7.44.

TD %: Trevor Siemian, 3.8%, Blake Bortles, 3.8%

INT %: Matt Ryan, 1.5%, Matthew Stafford 1.6%

QB Rating: Ryan Tannehill, 93.5

(Counting all 18 drops as catches... Tyrod’s completion percentage jumps to 71.5%. Even if half those drops were receptions, his completion percentage would be 68.1%.)

As you can probably imagine, the majority of the guesses pegged Tyrod as a much worse quarterback when passing from inside the pocket.

However, the statistics say he’s actually been productive and efficient in the most “traditional” element of playing quarterback during the 2016 season.

____________________________________________________________________________________

That is the article and that tells the real story.  Is TT a Great QB?

No he is NOT!!!

But is he WAY WAY better than the worst QB play (historically bad play) in the NFL is what we had to endure this year?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18226665/ryan-fitzpatrick-historically-bad-2016

Well that question answers itself doesn't it?

 

[Charlie Brown]

6 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

You really should get it, your a smart guy.

Please answer the post above where I detail facts no conjecture or opinion...

Deal with it...  

[Maxman]

DON'T LOOK AT HIS STATS. Stats don't tell his story.

I just looked at Fitz's stats. And they tell his story pretty accurately lol.

[Maxman]

On 1/7/2017 at 10:15 AM, KRL said:

It's looking like BUF is not going to pick up his option and he'll become a free agent:

http://buffalonews.com/2017/01/06/report-bills-planning-move-taylor/

Yes, the Jets should go after him because he's WAY better than anything we have on the 
roster and would significantly improve the position.  But for those who think he "matches
his stats", don't be deceived:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14163/tyrod-taylor

After scouting him this season he has pros but some significant cons:

Pros

- Strong, accurate arm on deep vertical routes
- Excellent runner and very elusive to make things happen when a play breaks down
- Doesn't turn the ball over

Cons

- Doesn't stay in the pocket unless he has max protection
- One read QB, if it's covered he looks to leave the pocket immediately
- Doesn't throw the ball into the middle of the field.  Either because he's short
or doesn't read defenses well.  Therefore he only throws outside the numbers
- His intermediate accuracy isn't great, he "dirts" a lot of easy throws
- Small frame

He's only been a starter for two years, can an OC and a QB coach develop him further?
Possibly, but don't think he's a finished product because he's not

This is a really good post btw. @KRL always does a great job breaking things down.

[Pcola]

3 hours ago, The Walrus said:

They are thinking of letting him go cause of the money and John Elway spoke about it last year with Brock Osweiler.

There seems to be no middle ground with QBs. Either they are cheap or they want $20M+ per year.

Elway was happy to keep Osweiler but not at the price of a QB who had actually accomplished something.

And that's the issue with Glennon, Taylor etc now. These guys aren't proven franchise QB's. But just because there is such a lack of supply of QB's with starting experience/some sort of ability, then the market seems to be willing to pay big money in desperation that the few good games they've played might translate into a franchise player.

FWIW, I think Taylor/Glennon/Petty/Cousins are good backup QBs right now. They could go out there if your main QB (if you have one) is hurt for a few games and win a few. Nothing wrong with that, I think a lot of teams don't value a backup as much they should be.

But teams paying $18+M for a player (regardless of the position) who they don't even know is the answer, sounds dumb just typing it.

Agree with everything except Cousins.  Guy throws for 5,000 yards per season.  There are very few QBs in the game that can do that.

[NoBowles]

14 minutes ago, Maxman said:

DON'T LOOK AT HIS STATS. Stats don't tell his story.

I just looked at Fitz's stats. And they tell his story pretty accurately lol.

I'm not sure what Fitz has to do with this decision. Fitz sucking does not mean we should make a multi year mistake on another player does it?

[Maxman]

2 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I'm not sure what Fitz has to do with this decision. Fitz sucking does not mean we should make a multi year mistake on another player does it?

I wasn't referencing anything related to the signing of Fitz. I was simply saying that when you look at his stats you get a pretty accurate idea of what kind of QB he is.

[NoBowles]

18 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Please answer the post above where I detail facts no conjecture or opinion...

Deal with it...  

I'm dealing with it just fine. PFF is a bunch of hack frauds who don't understand the math they use. Again, Fits sucking does not justify a multi year mistake on another player. If you can't pass consistently from the pocket in this league, your not good enough. Its been proven over and over. I'm not sure why the hell Fitz plays into that.

[NoBowles]

1 minute ago, Maxman said:

I wasn't referencing anything related to the signing of Fitz. I was simply saying that when you look at his stats you get a pretty accurate idea of what kind of QB he is.

Actually, when you watch him you get a far more accurate idea of what kind of QB he is. Serious question, not trying to be a dick, how many games of his have you watched? And why do you think he turns the ball over so little?

[Pcola]

Last offseason the trend was to dump big $$ at QBs for potential.  In every case, it blew up in the team's face.  

No team is dumb enough to throw any long term commitment at Glennon, Taylor, or Hoyer.  Any contract these guys get will be riddled with language allowing the teams to get out of them anytime after the first season.

Ive come to the conclusion that we are going to have to sign one of these scrubs because we aren't guaranteed anything in the draft.

And on the draft, we don't have the CS or situation to develop Watson or Trubisky.  So our offensive sh!tshow will be in full force next season.

[Maxman]

4 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Actually, when you watch him you get a far more accurate idea of what kind of QB he is. Serious question, not trying to be a dick, how many games of his have you watched? And why do you think he turns the ball over so little?

Hey I thanked you for your thoughts already. And I didn't answer the last time you asked me a question. I have made my thoughts known on this subject.

[Maxman]

5 minutes ago, Pcola said:

Last offseason the trend was to dump big $$ at QBs for potential.  In every case, it blew up in the team's face.  

No team is dumb enough to throw any long term commitment at Glennon, Taylor, or Hoyer.  Any contract these guys get will be riddled with language allowing the teams to get out of them anytime after the first season.

Ive come to the conclusion that we are going to have to sign one of these scrubs because we aren't guaranteed anything in the draft.

And on the draft, we don't have the CS or situation to develop Watson or Trubisky.  So our offensive sh!tshow will be in full force next season.

That definitely works in the Jets favor. Hopefully Taylor has no other offers if he gets cut. Would love him here on a creative deal that has minimal risk for the Jets.

[Pcola]

I don't mind signing Taylor but not to a huge contract that would prevent us from making a huge investment on the position in 2018.  

I have a little faith in our FO and if Woody decides to clean house after next season, I don't want an albatross of a contract locking us in to Taylor to prevent us from getting the top candidates.

[Charlie Brown]

16 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I'm dealing with it just fine. PFF is a bunch of hack frauds who don't understand the math they use. Again, Fits sucking does not justify a multi year mistake on another player. If you can't pass consistently from the pocket in this league, your not good enough. Its been proven over and over. I'm not sure why the hell Fitz plays into that.

Ok so you don't want to use outside sources........

I for one want Glennon as our pick up so I am not super high on TT.

But I think that you have a mistaken view of what even an average QB costs in today's NFL.

Fitz was paid at the very low end of the spectrum of starting QBs at $12 Million Dollars.  That is the low end.  You are not going to get a hold the fort QB for less than that, at least not one that is going to be competent.  The fact is that a less than competent QB impacts the entire team, that is why Fitz' play was relevant.

You want to pay say a Hoyer $9 Million Dollars for crappy play like we witnessed this year, do you?

I don't.  

So you are going to have to spend at least $15 Million Dollars for someone, unless Petty or Hack are far closer than we think.

So the idea that TT asking for say $16 Million based upon the current QB market is far from crazy.  People thinking that they are going to get some "hold the fort" guy in here for peanuts are living in FF land.  Only rookie contracts affords a team that kind of leverage,

Of course if Montanna or Marino in their primes were available I would be asking for them but their not.  

Sometimes you just have to ask the plain girl next door to the dance if the prom queen is already spoken for.   Those are just the facts...

[CrazyCarl40]

14 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Ok so you don't want to use outside sources........

I for one want Glennon as our pick up so I am not super high on TT.

But I think that you have a mistaken view of what even an average QB costs in today's NFL.

Fitz was paid at the very low end of the spectrum of starting QBs at $12 Million Dollars.  That is the low end.  You are not going to get a hold the fort QB for less than that, at least not one that is going to be competent.  The fact is that a less than competent QB impacts the entire team, that is why Fitz' play was relevant.

You want to pay say a Hoyer $9 Million Dollars for crappy play like we witnessed this year, do you?

I don't.  

So you are going to have to spend at least $15 Million Dollars for someone, unless Petty or Hack are far closer than we think.

So the idea that TT asking for say $16 Million based upon the current QB market is far from crazy.  People thinking that they are going to get some "hold the fort" guy in here for peanuts are living in FF land.  Only rookie contracts affords a team that kind of leverage,

Of course if Montanna or Marino in their primes were available I would be asking for them but their not.  

Sometimes you just have to ask the plain girl next door to the dance if the prom queen is already spoken for.   Those are just the facts...

Hoyer made 2 million dollars this year had 6 TDs and 0 ints in 5 started games for a terrible Bears team with no Alshon for the most part. Not sure what's wrong with that. 

[Pcola]

14 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Ok so you don't want to use outside sources........

I for one want Glennon as our pick up so I am not super high on TT.

But I think that you have a mistaken view of what even an average QB costs in today's NFL.

Fitz was paid at the very low end of the spectrum of starting QBs at $12 Million Dollars.  That is the low end.  You are not going to get a hold the fort QB for less than that, at least not one that is going to be competent.  The fact is that a less than competent QB impacts the entire team, that is why Fitz' play was relevant.

You want to pay say a Hoyer $9 Million Dollars for crappy play like we witnessed this year, do you?

I don't.  

So you are going to have to spend at least $15 Million Dollars for someone, unless Petty or Hack are far closer than we think.

So the idea that TT asking for say $16 Million based upon the current QB market is far from crazy.  People thinking that they are going to get some "hold the fort" guy in here for peanuts are living in FF land.  Only rookie contracts affords a team that kind of leverage,

Of course if Montanna or Marino in their primes were available I would be asking for them but their not.  

Sometimes you just have to ask the plain girl next door to the dance if the prom queen is already spoken for.   Those are just the facts...

I tend to agree that the going rate for starting QBs is between $15-18M.  The problem is that there is not 32 starting QBs in the league.

Glennon, Hoyer, and Taylor are not starting caliber QBs.  Any team that pays them as such are doing so is delusional and soon to be fired.

If we sign Taylor, it needs to be incentive based and have annual opt out provisions.