Tyrod Taylor Thoughts ...

[thadude]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Jets Fans, forever pining for other teams castoffs and failures.  It's just sad.

You can fantasize all you like, what I see in Tyrod is the exact same kind of player, with the exact same weaknesses, as Geno Smith.  Can't read Defenses, can;t see over the middle, locks onto receivers, runs too early and too often, is easy to scheme for and scheme against because he doesn't understand defenses at all, about the only thing Tyrod looks better about is turnovers, admittedly. But here, here he'll be Geno II, and we'll have to listen to another four years lamenting some theoretical lack of fair chances and weapons while Tyrod fails to develop further.  No thanks, been there, done that, still listening to Jets Fans demanding we keep the last loser even now..

If he were all that, the Bills would want to retain him, no matter who their next Head Coach is.  Talent is talent, and Buffalo has absolutely nothing behind Tyrod at current, less even than us.  If he's as good as you all think, he's going to make bank regardless.  The fantasy that he is both great AND cheap AND only we want him, really?  Lol, no.

If he were so good, he'd have beat the piss out of our Jets Defense and beaten Fitzpatrick, the worst QB in the NFL this year, head to head.  He didn't.

Is he better thus far than Geno, sure, who isn't tbqh.  The numbers don't lie, especially on turnovers.  Is Tyrod a franchise QB who will take them team on his back and lead us to the postseason and more?  I've seen nothing whatsoever to indicate that thus far in his career.  Already we're hearing form Jets fans it was all about a "lack of weapons" on the Bills.....how many times do we have to hear THAT script of excuse making for the same kinds of QB's?

So lets see, a Geno-alike who can't read defenses and couldn't crush the Jets pathetic pass Defense, who will costs us well above the average QB salary for multiple years, and investment that all but requires us to start him (and thus abandon totally Petty and Hack) the next 3-4 years?  No thanks.

I will never understand the obsession with empty-headed, running-backs-pretending-to-be-QB's.  This isn't the backyard or the playground.  This is the NFL.  

 

 

The guy who defended Ryan $hitzgarbage all year criticizing jets fans for thinking Taylor would be an upgrade over our crappy qb's because he's with another team

 

Oh the irony

 

 

 

[thadude]

3 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

This is a "cake and eat it too" discussion we're having. People here seem to heavily support Tyrod, but then say things like "cap friendly deal, low money, short term.....". Time and time again the NFL has shown that QB's that have flashed what Tyrod has flashed, hell QB's that flashed far less, get paid big time deals.

So the question isn't whether you like Tyrod, the question is are you willing to commit Osweiler money to him along with the next 3 seasons to him. That's what it's going to take.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Tyrod is getting Osweiler money because he actually has a track record of playing well

 

Everyone is laughing at the Osweiler contract.  You know what Osweiler is doing this weekend?  Playing in the second round of the nfl playoffs while geno and Fitz collect unemployment, petty plays Madden and Hack drools on himself

 

Taylor > Osweiler btw

[Warfish]

13 minutes ago, thadude said:

The guy who defended Ryan $hitzgarbage all year criticizing jets fans for thinking Taylor would be an upgrade over our crappy qb's because he's with another team

 

Oh the irony

 

 

 

1. Didn't defend him "all year".  Facts, I know, they're hard for some folks.  

2. Geno fans have nothing to hang their hats on, so are critical because the guy who took Geno's job didn't do well.  Well, maybe if Geno hasn't have sucked we never would have had to worry about Fitz, eh?  

3. Tyrod would indeed be an upgrade vs. Petty and Hack as those exist now, no doubt.  Not enough of one to warrant the salary and duration Tyrod would demand.

4. If you're going to argue against my critical opinion of Tyrod, maybe you should attack the criticism, not the poster.  Like explain how Tyrod isn't a one-read, then run-first QB.  Or isn't a poor reader of defenses with limited field vision.  Show us his extensive playoff experience, oh, right.  Explain why he's good without using the phrases "fair chance" and "weapons".  Etc.

[HighPitch]

10 hours ago, Pcola said:

If that's the case, we might as well stick with Petty.  Glennon has one year starting experience where he led his team to the #1 pick in the draft.  No way he's worth more than what Fitz got last year.

I think we may be bidding against ourselves anyway for Taylor or Glennon.

Teams needing starting QBs next season:

Cle (Trubisky)

SF (possibly Watson)

Chi (could re-sign Hoyer and/or Barkley.  Could get Watson if SF goes defense.)

NYJ

Buf (If they really want to walk away from Taylor)

So on the musical chairs of QBs, it looks like Buffalo and the Jets and the two QBs left will be Taylor and Glennn.  IMO, no other teams will go after these guys with starting jobs.  If the Bills work out an extension with Taylor, no one else is going to try to sign Glennon so no reason to give him a Bradford type of deal.  

Same can be said if Buffalo wants to move on from Taylor.  No other team will other Taylor a starting gig.  No sense offering him a monster deal.

 

Your nuts.  Glennon  will be a hot item.  Book it dano

[Jetsfan80]

44 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Jets Fans, forever pining for other teams castoffs and failures.  It's just sad.

You can fantasize all you like, what I see in Tyrod is the exact same kind of player, with the exact same weaknesses, as Geno Smith.  Can't read Defenses, can;t see over the middle, locks onto receivers, runs too early and too often, is easy to scheme for and scheme against because he doesn't understand defenses at all, about the only thing Tyrod looks better about is turnovers, admittedly. But here, here he'll be Geno II, and we'll have to listen to another four years lamenting some theoretical lack of fair chances and weapons while Tyrod fails to develop further.  No thanks, been there, done that, still listening to Jets Fans demanding we keep the last loser even now..

If he were all that, the Bills would want to retain him, no matter who their next Head Coach is.  Talent is talent, and Buffalo has absolutely nothing behind Tyrod at current, less even than us.  If he's as good as you all think, he's going to make bank regardless.  The fantasy that he is both great AND cheap AND only we want him, really?  Lol, no.

If he were so good, he'd have beat the piss out of our Jets Defense and beaten Fitzpatrick, the worst QB in the NFL this year, head to head.  He didn't.

Is he better thus far than Geno, sure, who isn't tbqh.  The numbers don't lie, especially on turnovers.  Is Tyrod a franchise QB who will take them team on his back and lead us to the postseason and more?  I've seen nothing whatsoever to indicate that thus far in his career.  Already we're hearing form Jets fans it was all about a "lack of weapons" on the Bills.....how many times do we have to hear THAT script of excuse making for the same kinds of QB's?

So lets see, a Geno-alike who can't read defenses and couldn't crush the Jets pathetic pass Defense, who will costs us well above the average QB salary for multiple years, and investment that all but requires us to start him (and thus abandon totally Petty and Hack) the next 3-4 years?  No thanks.

I will never understand the obsession with empty-headed, running-backs-pretending-to-be-QB's.  This isn't the backyard or the playground.  This is the NFL.  

 

 

 

Not once in my post did I "pine" for Tyrod Taylor.  Take your lecture elsewhere.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Why is it a black issue? I don't get it. Not everything is about race.

It shouldn't be, but then the poster right below you states the following:

" I will never understand the obsession with empty-headed, running-backs-pretending-to-be-QB's.  This isn't the backyard or the playground.  This is the NFL."

 

Not sure how anyone could read that post without seeing what he's getting at.  Tyrod Taylor is nothing like Geno Smith yet he's painting him....and a bunch of other QB's....with the same brush. 

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Why is it a black issue? I don't get it. Not everything is about race.

The problem with that mentality of running if primary receiver is covered is that you get hurt. If you get hurt you miss games. As for his receivers, yeah, they are not great, but Taylor completely ignores the middle of the field. There have been plenty of plays where those guys are wide open and he does not get it to them over the middle. Teams take away the outside of the field and leave the middle fairly open because he ignores it. They will take his 10 yard scrambles occasionally too. 

He also had the benefit of a fantastic running game, and very good out of the backfield receiving.

 

Who do the Bills have to get open in the middle of field?  

[Freemanm]

14 hours ago, Maxman said:

QBs are all expensive. Yet you can't win without one. They paid Fitz 12 million or so and he was terrible.

If they can't get him around 15 million a year, which I think is the average then do it. Macc is good with contracts that he can walk away from after a few seasons.

One problem with signing an AFC East QB is that there are four teams in the division who also know exactly how to play him. Pass

[NoBowles]

20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It shouldn't be, but then the poster right below you states the following:

" I will never understand the obsession with empty-headed, running-backs-pretending-to-be-QB's.  This isn't the backyard or the playground.  This is the NFL."

 

Not sure how anyone could read that post without seeing what he's getting at.  Tyrod Taylor is nothing like Geno Smith yet he's painting him....and a bunch of other QB's....with the same brush. 

I can't interpret others posts, but I did not pick up a racial undertone to anyones posts.

Taylor is nothing like Geno Smith. Geno is a pocket passer. He could probably benefit from not holding the ball so long and either running more or throwing it away more. I don't think there is any similarities between Geno and Taylor in the least, other than the fact that neither are very good QB's. But they have very different games.

I love mobility for a QB, as long as they can win from the pocket. If you can't win from the pocket in the NFL, you are extremely limited. That is why I pass on Taylor for anything more than a one year contract.

[Warfish]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It shouldn't be, but then the poster right below you states the following:

" I will never understand the obsession with empty-headed, running-backs-pretending-to-be-QB's.  This isn't the backyard or the playground.  This is the NFL."

Not sure how anyone could read that post without seeing what he's getting at.  Tyrod Taylor is nothing like Geno Smith yet he's painting him....and a bunch of other QB's....with the same brush. 

Oh for Pete's sake, the second anyone is critical of black QB, the "RACISM!" card gets played.  Is it possible to discuss anything without that old trope getting trotted out as a way to silence criticism?

Let me educate you, Geno Smith did not suck because he was black.  He just sucked, and happened to be black.  Same way Fitz didn't suck because he was of Irish decent.  He just sucked, and just happened to be irish.

A dislike for run-first QB's who can't read Defenses and can;t see enough to throw effectively over the middle, is a dislike for run-first QB's who can't read defenses who can;t see well enough to throw over the middle, of ANY race and ANY ethnic group.

And a desire for a big, tall, accurate strong-armed pocket passer does not equate to white supremacism.  

But since you raise the issue, it's become rather clear that we have a number of posters here who specifically and unequivocally supported and continue to support Geno Smith purely because he is black.  I won't name names, because it's rather obvious they know who they are, and if they were honest, they'd admit that a big part of their ongoing love of Geno is melanin related.

 

[LIJetsFan]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Jets Fans, forever pining for other teams castoffs and failures.  It's just sad.

You can fantasize all you like, what I see in Tyrod is the exact same kind of player, with the exact same weaknesses, as Geno Smith.  Can't read Defenses, can;t see over the middle, locks onto receivers, runs too early and too often, is easy to scheme for and scheme against because he doesn't understand defenses at all, about the only thing Tyrod looks better about is turnovers, admittedly. But here, here he'll be Geno II, and we'll have to listen to another four years lamenting some theoretical lack of fair chances and weapons while Tyrod fails to develop further.  No thanks, been there, done that, still listening to Jets Fans demanding we keep the last loser even now..

If he were all that, the Bills would want to retain him, no matter who their next Head Coach is.  Talent is talent, and Buffalo has absolutely nothing behind Tyrod at current, less even than us.  If he's as good as you all think, he's going to make bank regardless.  The fantasy that he is both great AND cheap AND only we want him, really?  Lol, no.

If he were so good, he'd have beat the piss out of our Jets Defense and beaten Fitzpatrick, the worst QB in the NFL this year, head to head.  He didn't.

Is he better thus far than Geno, sure, who isn't tbqh.  The numbers don't lie, especially on turnovers.  Is Tyrod a franchise QB who will take them team on his back and lead us to the postseason and more?  I've seen nothing whatsoever to indicate that thus far in his career.  Already we're hearing form Jets fans it was all about a "lack of weapons" on the Bills.....how many times do we have to hear THAT script of excuse making for the same kinds of QB's?

So lets see, a Geno-alike who can't read defenses and couldn't crush the Jets pathetic pass Defense, who will costs us well above the average QB salary for multiple years, and investment that all but requires us to start him (and thus abandon totally Petty and Hack) the next 3-4 years?  No thanks.

I will never understand the obsession with empty-headed, running-backs-pretending-to-be-QB's.  This isn't the backyard or the playground.  This is the NFL.  

 

 

wtf, geno was a turnover machine and this kid seldom turns it over....just stfu

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Warfish said:

A dislike for run-first QB's who can't read Defenses and can;t see enough to throw effectively over the middle, is a dislike for run-first QB's who can't read defenses who can;t see well enough to throw over the middle, of ANY race and ANY ethnic group.

Geno Smith isn't a "run first" QB anymore than Tyrod is.  That's the problem here.  Not only are the 2 QB's nothing alike, neither fit the mold that you're trying to put them in. 

[rex-n-effect]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It shouldn't be, but then the poster right below you states the following:

" I will never understand the obsession with empty-headed, running-backs-pretending-to-be-QB's.  This isn't the backyard or the playground.  This is the NFL."

 

Not sure how anyone could read that post without seeing what he's getting at.  Tyrod Taylor is nothing like Geno Smith yet he's painting him....and a bunch of other QB's....with the same brush. 

He said they share a lot of the same problems; but Geno isn't a scrambling QB. Taylor has better stats than Geno because he can bail himself out with his legs. 

You read these complaints about scrambling QBs and impute racism that isn't there. There are about seven QBs who really used their legs this year. Four are white but the real division between them is technique. On one hand you have Cam Newton, Aaron Rogers and Andrew Luck. They are true passers who know how to pass first and run when they need to. (You could throw Dak Prescott in that group but he didn't rush nearly as much as the top seven.) 

On the other hand you have Taylor, Bortles, Kaepernick and Mariota. These guys are mediocre at best as passers and float their career on their legs. There are probably good QBs hidden in each of them that never fully developed because they learned to win by running in high school and college. Lots of scrambling QBs fit this mold because you can win a lot of college games with these guys. There's no incentive to develop them into great QBs. 

Bring me a guy who is a passer and effective field commander. He can run a lot or not run. I don't really care as long as he doesn't put himself at unnecessary injury risk. We flirted with this idea with Tebow. That was enough for me.

[NoBowles]

56 minutes ago, JiF said:

Who do the Bills have to get open in the middle of field?  

I guess when you put it that way, I see your point. The Bills just never had anyone open ever in the middle of the field, so its not really on Taylor, its on the WR's. 

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I guess when you put it that way, I see your point. The Bills just never had anyone open ever in the middle of the field, so its not really on Taylor, its on the WR's. 

I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just asking a question.  The first player that comes to mind on that team is Charles Clay.  Charles Clay was their leading receiver in receptions and TD's this year.  So, I dont know...maybe he can when it's there? 

 

[Pcola]

1 hour ago, HighPitch said:

Your nuts.  Glennon  will be a hot item.  Book it dano

What teams could bring him in to start?  Just curious.  As a back up in the mold of Chase Daniels, sure lots.  But not to compete for starting gig at a price tag north of $12M.

[NoBowles]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just asking a question.  The first player that comes to mind on that team is Charles Clay.  Charles Clay was their leading receiver in receptions and TD's this year.  So, I dont know...maybe he can when it's there? 

 

I watch a lot of games each weekend, and have seen Taylor quite a bit as I always try to follow he AFCE teams pretty closely. There are guys open over the middle of the field and he very rarely throws it over the middle. Its gotten even worse IMO because defenses know this and are leaving the middle even more open as they have gotten a book on him, and he still does not throw it over the middle. He is not a tall guy, so its very possible he doesn't see the field well, I'm not sure what the deal is, but its very noticeable.

[Mecca]

Glennon is so overrated it hurts.

 

His stats are inflated because he's a checkdown king. He was the QB for a good amount of the 2-14 season where they were down by 3 TD's most of the time. 

Glennon's value is in his size/perceived big arm, but he can't throw the ball deep with accuracy and checks down a TON. He's not a gun slinger at all.

[Jetsfan80]

13 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I watch a lot of games each weekend, and have seen Taylor quite a bit as I always try to follow he AFCE teams pretty closely. There are guys open over the middle of the field and he very rarely throws it over the middle. Its gotten even worse IMO because defenses know this and are leaving the middle even more open as they have gotten a book on him, and he still does not throw it over the middle. He is not a tall guy, so its very possible he doesn't see the field well, I'm not sure what the deal is, but its very noticeable.

Know who else is short and has trouble, at times, throwing over the middle?

Drew Brees.

I'd say he's made a pretty good career of it despite having to crane his neck to see over his linemen. 

[thadude]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

1. Didn't defend him "all year".  Facts, I know, they're hard for some folks.  

2. Geno fans have nothing to hang their hats on, so are critical because the guy who took Geno's job didn't do well.  Well, maybe if Geno hasn't have sucked we never would have had to worry about Fitz, eh?  

3. Tyrod would indeed be an upgrade vs. Petty and Hack as those exist now, no doubt.  Not enough of one to warrant the salary and duration Tyrod would demand.

4. If you're going to argue against my critical opinion of Tyrod, maybe you should attack the criticism, not the poster.  Like explain how Tyrod isn't a one-read, then run-first QB.  Or isn't a poor reader of defenses with limited field vision.  Show us his extensive playoff experience, oh, right.  Explain why he's good without using the phrases "fair chance" and "weapons".  Etc.

We get it you hate any qb who was previously on a different team unless they have a degree from Harvard, bad facial hair and can't throw

 

 

And comparing Geno to Tyrod Taylor is comical.  If Geno was half as good this entire board would be screaming at Mac to resign him

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, Mecca said:

Glennon is so overrated it hurts.

 

His stats are inflated because he's a checkdown king. He was the QB for a good amount of the 2-14 season where they were down by 3 TD's most of the time. 

Glennon's value is in his size/perceived big arm, but he can't throw the ball deep with accuracy and checks down a TON. He's not a gun slinger at all.

Incorrect on many counts.

[thadude]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Know who else is short and has trouble, at times, throwing over the middle?

Drew Brees.

I'd say he's made a pretty good career of it despite having to crane his neck to see over his linemen. 

Who wants other teams' cast offs? Guys like Brees, Warner, Dilfer, Johnson and our own Vinny Testaverde so did nothing

[Mecca]

2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Tyrod Taylor isn't going to become a Jet. There's no reason to carry on with this... 

• Bills owners have expressed remorse for forcing Lynn to bench him in week 17.
• If Lynn gets the HC job permanently, then he's going to advocate for keeping Taylor.
• If he does get released, then...
• Several teams across the league need a QB, the Jets are never anyone's first choice.
• Mac has a history of under-estimating player value, from asking for too much in trades, or not offering enough, or coming up short on contracts that could actually be difference-makers.
• No chance.

Tyrod doesn't want to go back + the owner isn't a fan + his deal is 30 million this upcoming year. No way he's back

 

Only a few teams will be in the running for Tyrod. You'd expect Trubinsky/Kizer/Watson to land to 2 teams that need QB's in

SF

Chicago

Cleveland

------

Texans can't afford Tyrod

------

This leaves the Jets... 

[Mecca]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

Incorrect on many counts.

Uhm, no it's not. Watch some more games instead of just falsely making accusations.

[thadude]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

Incorrect on many counts.

I think you can count the minutes Mecca has watched Glennon play on one hand

 

Glennon is very accurate on medium and long range throws

[AFJF]

Just now, Mecca said:

Uhm, no it's not. Watch some more games instead of just falsely making accusations.

It's not an accusation, it's a fact.  I've watched a ton of Glennon's games.

[Mecca]

Tyrod Taylor is a smaller Alex Smith with more athleticism and a better deep ball. Don't overthink it.

[thadude]

Just now, Mecca said:

Uhm, no it's not. Watch some more games instead of just falsely making accusations.

Watched plenty of Glennon.  Calling him a check down guy is simply inaccurate

[Mecca]

Just now, thadude said:

I think you can count the minutes Mecca has watched Glennon play on one hand

 

Glennon is very accurate on medium and long range throws

http://deadspin.com/charts-who-are-the-best-deep-passers-in-the-nfl-1469917039

 

Take your L and walk it off

[Mecca]

Just now, thadude said:

Watched plenty of Glennon.  Calling him a check down guy is simply inaccurate

http://deadspin.com/charts-who-are-the-best-deep-passers-in-the-nfl-1469917039

 

issa L

[Mecca]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

It's not an accusation, it's a fact.  I've watched a ton of Glennon's games.

http://deadspin.com/charts-who-are-the-best-deep-passers-in-the-nfl-1469917039

[NoBowles]

7 minutes ago, Mecca said:

Glennon is so overrated it hurts.

 

His stats are inflated because he's a checkdown king. He was the QB for a good amount of the 2-14 season where they were down by 3 TD's most of the time. 

Glennon's value is in his size/perceived big arm, but he can't throw the ball deep with accuracy and checks down a TON. He's not a gun slinger at all.

This is comical, in your mind a QB is either a "modern QB" or a "gun slinger" and that is the only two types of QB's.... Your advocating for Taylor yet you are calling Glennon an overrated check down king?? Can't make this crap up.

[AFJF]

Just now, Mecca said:

http://deadspin.com/charts-who-are-the-best-deep-passers-in-the-nfl-1469917039

 

issa L

 

Just now, Mecca said:

http://deadspin.com/charts-who-are-the-best-deep-passers-in-the-nfl-1469917039

Deep ball accuracy has nothing to do with a QB constantly checking down.  You're wrong.

[Mecca]

Just now, AFJF said:

 

Deep ball accuracy has nothing to do with a QB constantly checking down.  You're wrong.

Dude, Glennon is literally nicknamed 'Checkdown King'

 

google is your friend

[NoBowles]

3 minutes ago, Mecca said:

Tyrod Taylor is a smaller Alex Smith with more athleticism and a better deep ball. Don't overthink it.

He's really not a smaller Alex Smith at all, the two are very different QB's.