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Bowles can't name backup QB

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11 minutes ago, jamesr said:

They resigned Fitz to a two year deal that would have had him here this year if he hadn't utterly stunk the joint up last year.

FALSE.  His "two year deal" was merely a contract construct because they could not afford him in 2016 despite all that ******* cap space THEY HAD TO SPEND.  It was just so they could spread his cap hit over 2 years by giving a signing bonus instead of salary.  His contract voided right after the super bowl.  There was no way to keep him.

Technically, the contract was for two years, but contained language in which the second year would be automatically voided five days after the Super Bowl — meaning, Friday — if Fitzpatrick remained on the roster.

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1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

FALSE.  His "two year deal" was merely a contract construct because they could not afford him in 2016 despite all that ******* cap space THEY HAD TO SPEND.  It was just so they could spread his cap hit over 2 years by giving a signing bonus instead of salary.  His contract voided right after the super bowl.  There was no way to keep him.

Technically, the contract was for two years, but contained language in which the second year would be automatically voided five days after the Super Bowl — meaning, Friday — if Fitzpatrick remained on the roster.

So if we'd gone 10-6 with him, we'd just have watched him walk off into the sunset and expect Hack to start? I still reckon the plan was for him to be here for 2017, rather than the plan being for Hack to start. Extension, new contract, whatever.

Except it all fell apart, leaving us with no plan. Leading us to Josh McCown.

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2 minutes ago, jamesr said:

So if we'd gone 10-6 with him, we'd just have watched him walk off into the sunset and expect Hack to start? I still reckon the plan was for him to be here for 2017, rather than the plan being for Hack to start. Extension, new contract, whatever.

Except it all fell apart, leaving us with no plan. Leading us to Josh McCown.

If he went 10-6 we would have had to pony up and pay him and there would be other teams looking at him.  Like the Bears and Niners.  We barely got him for $12M last year.  This year we would be looking at north of $18M.  That plan sucks even if we go 10-6.  At 5-11 it is an abomination.  

It isn't even a plan.  It is a prayer.  I hope this player does well and I hope I can sign him. 

 

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1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

If he went 10-6 we would have had to pony up and pay him and there would be other teams looking at him.  Like the Bears and Niners.  We barely got him for $12M last year.  This year we would be looking at north of $18M.  That plan sucks even if we go 10-6.  At 5-11 it is an abomination.  

It isn't even a plan.  It is a prayer.  I hope this player does well and I hope I can sign him. 

 

Sadly, it still seems a saner option than having Hack turn into starter material this off-season. :(

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1 hour ago, jamesr said:

Sadly, it still seems a saner option than having Hack turn into starter material this off-season. :(

The plan had the Jets being competitive with Fitz and Hack, drafting in the middle of the rounds, being in the playoff hunt but falling short and building through the draft.  

There is no Fitz, the Hack experiment is not looking good and the Jets are looking at a high pick in the upcoming QB rich draft    The Jets should add a high 1st round QB next year and take it from there   

 

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Got a feeling Hack is going to be named back up.  This should be fun.

"The Jets haven't named their backup yet, but Bryce Petty should get the job -- he badly outplayed Hackenberg this preseason.

That's the view from the outside, anyway. But if the Jets have severe misgivings about Hackenberg, they aren't letting it show.

"It might only take one -- or two -- hits for Hackenberg to get his first NFL snap. And would Morton be comfortable with the idea of him playing, a soon as Sunday. 

"Yes," Morton said. "Yes, I sure am." 

 

http://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nfl/jets/2017/09/07/hackenberg-did-pretty-good-job-jets-offensive-coordinator-says/643266001/

 

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1 hour ago, flgreen said:

Got a feeling Hack is going to be named back up.  This should be fun.

"The Jets haven't named their backup yet, but Bryce Petty should get the job -- he badly outplayed Hackenberg this preseason.

That's the view from the outside, anyway. But if the Jets have severe misgivings about Hackenberg, they aren't letting it show.

"It might only take one -- or two -- hits for Hackenberg to get his first NFL snap. And would Morton be comfortable with the idea of him playing, a soon as Sunday. 

"Yes," Morton said. "Yes, I sure am." 

 

http://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nfl/jets/2017/09/07/hackenberg-did-pretty-good-job-jets-offensive-coordinator-says/643266001/

 

I said it before I WANTED HACK DRAFTED!!

But Stevie Wonder could tell you that Hack has not looked better than Petty this off season and for the Jets to use last season as a barometer of Petty when he was playing under a different system that many of the players themselves say was unfair and that they hated is silly to me.

Also so many folks say that Petty looked terrible last year, well to me he looked like a first year QB under center, playing behind a horrible OL and hurt WRs...

Now last year if you say Fitz looked terrible to me, now that makes sense....not Petty...

No one on this board as far as I know has made claim that Petty is the answer, but many out here have said with good reason that Petty currently is better than Hack, that is all.

 

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11 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

I said it before I WANTED HACK DRAFTED!!

But Stevie Wonder could tell you that Hack has not looked better than Petty this off season and for the Jets to use last season as a barometer of Petty when he was playing under a different system that many of the players themselves say was unfair and that they hated is silly to me.

Also so many folks say that Petty looked terrible last year, well to me he looked like a first year QB under center, playing behind a horrible OL and hurt WRs...

Now last year if you say Fitz looked terrible to me, now that makes sense....not Petty...

No one on this board as far as I know has made claim that Petty is the answer, but many out here have said with good reason that Petty currently is better than Hack, that is all.

 

Petty may not be the answer ... but at present he at least seems less of a question.

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Petty looks like he has more experience ... shocker ... he has been in he league longer ... Petty does not have Hack's cannon ... Hack is inaccurate ... i'd bet its closer behind the scenes than we know.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

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4 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Petty looks like he has more experience ... shocker ... he has been in he league longer ... Petty does not have Hack's cannon ... Hack is inaccurate ... i'd bet its closer behind the scenes than we know.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOUbe4zLw6U

40 yard laser to the end zone says the arm strength is just fine.  Aaron Rodgers doesn't have Jeff George's cannon either.  That's not usually a point of comparison between them.  Not comparing Petty to Rodgers but if that's what you have to 'make it close', then you're buying whatever Bowles is selling.

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Regarding the whole debate about multiple years of Fitz, all you have to do is look at the original contract they tried to get Fitz to sign and that tells you everything.  They were originally pushing him to sign a 3-year deal, which would have paid $12M in the first year, and $6M in the second and third.  Meaning he was being handed the starting job the first, and at most competing for that job this year and next, if not completely moved to a backup spot.  Quite frankly, they got lucky that he refused to take that deal, as he had convinced himself he would be a multi-year starter, but it suggests that they had no intentions of him being locked in to start this year.

Essentially, they ended up giving McCown the second year of Fitz's original contract offer and well.... let's not even get into that.

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1 hour ago, nycdan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOUbe4zLw6U

40 yard laser to the end zone says the arm strength is just fine.  Aaron Rodgers doesn't have Jeff George's cannon either.  That's not usually a point of comparison between them.  Not comparing Petty to Rodgers but if that's what you have to 'make it close', then you're buying whatever Bowles is selling.

I don't know that this throw qualifies as a laser, but if he continues to be unsuccessful (when the games count) it won't be due to his arm strength.

The 2 most important traits are what's upstairs and accuracy. Well, the 2 most important after being able to stay on the field for more than a couple of games in a row.

Further down the importance list, I wonder if he just ran a poor 40 at the combine (4.87). He'd previously been clocked at 4.62, and his combine shuttle & 3-cone were the same as Mariota's and (back in his pro day, not live action) was allegedly pretty accurate while throwing on the run. In other words, he seems more theoretically-capable with his feet than he's shown. Then again, his injury history suggests he's arguably the last guy you want to incur further risk to try turning into a running/dual-threat QB, unless that could be the difference between him being well below average and actually dangerous & hard to defend.

I know, I know. He sucks. This is just wishful thinking. It's just that until I see it work out successfully, I'll believe we nailed a worthy franchise QB in 2018 after I see it happen, including said prospect succeeding on the field for the Jets. I'd still draft a QB early even if Petty takes a big leap forward, but I'm unconcerned with which QB actually is the one that pans out for us (next year's pick, Petty, Hackenberg, or anybody), so long as it happens with one of them. 

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16 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Regarding the whole debate about multiple years of Fitz, all you have to do is look at the original contract they tried to get Fitz to sign and that tells you everything.  They were originally pushing him to sign a 3-year deal, which would have paid $12M in the first year, and $6M in the second and third.  Meaning he was being handed the starting job the first, and at most competing for that job this year and next, if not completely moved to a backup spot.  Quite frankly, they got lucky that he refused to take that deal, as he had convinced himself he would be a multi-year starter, but it suggests that they had no intentions of him being locked in to start this year.

Essentially, they ended up giving McCown the second year of Fitz's original contract offer and well.... let's not even get into that.

Right, but McCown is starting this year in the Fitz-mentor role. Or anyway, he's at least starting until he gets injured or we get eliminated (or off to a bad-enough start that Bowles won't wait for mathematical elimination like he did with Fitz last year). 

I do wonder what the team would have done if he'd signed that original deal. Half of the 2nd year (in the 3-year offer Fitz turned down) was guaranteed. Would they have still dumped him after they got rid of his cheering section? Would Marshall have not asked the team to release him, and they bring him back as well? Or would they have eaten Fitz's guarantee for another $3m wasted and still signed Josh McCown for $6m?

Also remember that $6m for Fitz was a base salary minimum, as it had incentives that could have brought year 2 back up to $12m. I don't know if a SB win was required for all of it, but the incentives offered wouldn't be all-or-none ($6m if no SB win, $12m if we did win it), as playing time was surely a consideration for bumping it up. Technically the offer (if I recall correctly) was a $6m SB with 3 years' salary at $6m apiece, and $15m gtd, plus any incentives reached where it could max out at 3 yrs $36m.

We actually offered this, lol. And he actually turned it down -- double lol.

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16 hours ago, flgreen said:

Got a feeling Hack is going to be named back up.  This should be fun.

"The Jets haven't named their backup yet, but Bryce Petty should get the job -- he badly outplayed Hackenberg this preseason.

That's the view from the outside, anyway. But if the Jets have severe misgivings about Hackenberg, they aren't letting it show.

"It might only take one -- or two -- hits for Hackenberg to get his first NFL snap. And would Morton be comfortable with the idea of him playing, a soon as Sunday. 

"Yes," Morton said. "Yes, I sure am." 

 

http://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nfl/jets/2017/09/07/hackenberg-did-pretty-good-job-jets-offensive-coordinator-says/643266001/

 

I am surprised by this, I think he needs more time.

That said I welcome it. I think Hack has more upside. So bring it on. (And I have said over and over again, I am comfortable with Petty playing if they think he can be a starter in this league). I am rooting for both of them and the only real goal this year is to see if either of them can be an upper level QB in this league.

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Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Right, but McCown is starting this year in the Fitz-mentor role. Or anyway, he's at least starting until he gets injured or we get eliminated (or off to a bad-enough start that Bowles won't wait for mathematical elimination like he did with Fitz last year). 

I do wonder what the team would have done if he'd signed that original deal. Half of the 2nd year (in the 3-year offer Fitz turned down) was guaranteed. Would they have still dumped him after they got rid of his cheering section? Would Marshall have not asked the team to release him, and they bring him back as well? Or would they have eaten Fitz's guarantee for another $3m wasted and still signed Josh McCown for $6m?

Also remember that $6m for Fitz was a base salary minimum, as it had incentives that could have brought year 2 back up to $12m. I don't know if a SB win was required for all of it, but the incentives offered wouldn't be all-or-none ($6m if no SB win, $12m if we did win it), as playing time was surely a consideration for bumping it up. Technically the offer (if I recall correctly) was a $6m SB with 3 years' salary at $6m apiece, and $15m gtd, plus any incentives reached where it could max out at 3 yrs $36m.

We actually offered this, lol. And he actually turned it down -- double lol.

I have no idea what they would have done if he signed that deal, good chance he'd be playing the McCown role himself this year, as frightening as that is to say.  Or, as you suggested, doubling down by cutting him and still making the McCown deal.  It definitely turned out to be an absolutely awful offer, even worse than anyone thought at the time, that the Jets were beyond lucky he declined.  I have no idea what's making this year, but it's undoubtedly a fraction of what he could've gotten from the Jets.

If they had kept Fitz, he would definitely be starting just as McCown will be.  The only real point about the contract structure is that they likely would have had the same situation going on, a desperate desire to have Hack win the job, which would ultimately fail.  I'm certainly not saying any vet QB they would have had in camp this year wouldn't have won, it just doesn't seem that they were intentionally planning for that, as some have suggested.

Ideally, the Jets would have at least one QB that wasn't some degree of awful, and that might help the situation a bit.

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2 hours ago, nycdan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOUbe4zLw6U

40 yard laser to the end zone says the arm strength is just fine.  Aaron Rodgers doesn't have Jeff George's cannon either.  That's not usually a point of comparison between them.  Not comparing Petty to Rodgers but if that's what you have to 'make it close', then you're buying whatever Bowles is selling.

I thought when he was a rookie that Petty's arm strength was going to be an issue. I don't think it is. His arm strength is better than I realized. Hack has a much stronger arm, but that doesn't matter if he is 1) throwing it to the other team or 2) throwing it in the dirt lol.

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43 minutes ago, Maxman said:

I thought when he was a rookie that Petty's arm strength was going to be an issue. I don't think it is. His arm strength is better than I realized. Hack has a much stronger arm, but that doesn't matter if he is 1) throwing it to the other team or 2) throwing it in the dirt lol.

Any one that saw Petty play in his junior year knows Petty's arm strength isn't an issue at all.  He didn't throw all that well at the combine, but according to his camp, Petty was still affected by the two cracked bones in the transverse processes in his back, which happened the first game of his senior year.  He played through it all season in a great deal of pain.  and his arm just wasn't as live as his junior year.  After having watched him since he is a Jet his arm is back to where it was his junior year.  So this is a rare occasion that I believe the agent excuse makers. 

Arm strength isn't his problem.  His main problem is that he played in college with the simplest "air raid Offense' in all of the NCAA.  I've read they didn't even use an actual play book.  I'm really surprised he is even able to function in this extremely complicated  O that Morton is installing that I've read has the most verbiage to call a play in the NFL.  Which brings up another question. Why would the Jets be installing that complicated O with 2 Young guys who are struggling to learn any NFL O?   

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7 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Any one that saw Petty play in his junior year knows Petty's arm strength isn't an issue at all.  He didn't throw all that well at the combine, but according to his camp, Petty was still affected by the two cracked bones in the transverse processes in his back, which happened the first game of his senior year.  He played through it all season in a great deal of pain.  and his arm just wasn't as live as his junior year.  After having watched him since he is a Jet his arm is back to where it was his junior year.  So this is a rare occasion that I believe the agent excuse makers. 

Arm strength isn't his problem.  His main problem is that he played in college with the simplest "air raid Offense' in all of the NCAA.  I've read they didn't even use an actual play book.  I'm really surprised he is even able to function in this extremely complicated  O that Morton is installing that I've read has the most verbiage to call a play in the NFL.  Which brings up another question. Why would the Jets be installing that complicated O with 2 Young guys who are struggling to learn any NFL O?   

Jet fans look at Bryce Petty spreading the ball all over the place and tell themselves he's improving  . Jet fans look at Christian Hackenberg taking sacks and throwing interceptions and tell themselves he is terrible .The truth is somewhere in the middle and only the person who designed the scheme and is calling the plays knows the truth . Since he isn't or hasn't done what Jet fans say he should do, he's an idiot .

Consider this as part of the equation if you will . When you make a successful pass, was it due to your understanding of the play, did you actually execute the play the way it was intended, or did you just made a play because time allowed you the opportunity to make a play ?  When you didn't execute the play the way it was called, was it due to your understanding of the play called, your execution of the play called or the time you had to execute the play called .

A pass thrown into triple coverage that resulted in a TD is celebrated, but truth be told, it was a terrible decision by the QB . Still a TD and still celebrated, just like the wonderful season Fitzpatrick had in 2015 or was it ? 

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6 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Jet fans look at Bryce Petty spreading the ball all over the place and tell themselves he's improving  . Jet fans look at Christian Hackenberg taking sacks and throwing interceptions and tell themselves he is terrible .The truth is somewhere in the middle and only the person who designed the scheme and is calling the plays knows the truth . Since he isn't or hasn't done what Jet fans say he should do, he's an idiot .

Consider this as part of the equation if you will . When you make a successful pass, was it due to your understanding of the play, did you actually execute the play the way it was intended, or did you just made a play because time allowed you the opportunity to make a play ?  When you didn't execute the play the way it was called, was it due to your understanding of the play called, your execution of the play called or the time you had to execute the play called .

A pass thrown into triple coverage that resulted in a TD is celebrated, but truth be told, it was a terrible decision by the QB . Still a TD and still celebrated, just like the wonderful season Fitzpatrick had in 2015 or was it ? 

The only thing that matters in the end is, was the play a completion, or was it a Pic/sack?  I honestly don't care if it's Petty, or Hack that steps up.  The only thing I don't want to see is McCown wasting a year, because "he gives us the best chance to win" 5 games.

What I do find interesting is that Petty had never played under center before being drafted, and Hack has played in a Pro set.  You would think that Hack would be light years ahead of Petty, clearly he's not.  Petty was playing better then Hack in his second pre-season game against Atlanta his rookie year, then Hack is right now.

And NO, Hack is not a rookie.  He's in a better spot to preform then Petty was in when he was thrown in last year after not being able to practice for 8 weeks before playing.

 

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Technically the offer (if I recall correctly) was a $6m SB with 3 years' salary at $6m apiece, and $15m gtd, plus any incentives reached where it could max out at 3 yrs $36m.

We actually offered this, lol. And he actually turned it down -- double lol.

Why are you double laughing at him turning it down?  It was a good gamble for him financially.  He performed as bad as humanly possible and will make almost the exact same amount.  $12M from the Jets + $3M from the Bucs.  If he signed that proposed deal he would have gotten $15M guaranteed, but that would have been $6M bonus + $6M for 2016  + $3M more for 2017.  He basically left $3M on the table for playing as bad as possible and I actually think he has the opportunity to make that up with incentives (NLTBE) in the Bucs deal.  

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Slightly off the original topic, but I really find myself rooting for McCown... I'm not sure exactly -what- I'm rooting for, but the more I read about the guy as a person the more I like him. I'm starting to understand why teams like him in the 'mentor' role, even if that's kind of a non-factor in some minds.

I guess I'm hoping he goes out and makes a respectable effort. I know we want to see Petty (and Hack) but I'll be happy to watch McCown keep things steady. 

 

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2 minutes ago, DMan77 said:

Slightly off the original topic, but I really find myself rooting for McCown... I'm not sure exactly -what- I'm rooting for, but the more I read about the guy as a person the more I like him. I'm starting to understand why teams like him in the 'mentor' role, even if that's kind of a non-factor in some minds.

I guess I'm hoping he goes out and makes a respectable effort. I know we want to see Petty (and Hack) but I'll be happy to watch McCown keep things steady. 

 

Well the good news then is, if he plays steady, and wins 5-6 games, he'll probably be back next year to.  The Jets won't have a shot at an early QB more then likely 

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2 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Well the good news then is, if he plays steady, and wins 5-6 games, he'll probably be back next year to.  The Jets won't have a shot at an early QB more then likely 

Ya, I guess this is dicey, but I think he could play respectably, but still not win any games... I think it's mostly just about him not embarassing himself. I'd hate to see that. No 6 INT games, for example.

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10 minutes ago, DMan77 said:

Slightly off the original topic, but I really find myself rooting for McCown... I'm not sure exactly -what- I'm rooting for, but the more I read about the guy as a person the more I like him. I'm starting to understand why teams like him in the 'mentor' role, even if that's kind of a non-factor in some minds.

I guess I'm hoping he goes out and makes a respectable effort. I know we want to see Petty (and Hack) but I'll be happy to watch McCown keep things steady. 

 

I'm guessing you're the guy wearing the Fitzpatrick jersey in 2016

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10 minutes ago, DMan77 said:

Ya, I guess this is dicey, but I think he could play respectably, but still not win any games... I think it's mostly just about him not embarassing himself. I'd hate to see that. No 6 INT games, for example.

I get it.  He does seem like a decent guy.  Actually since smith is gone all of the Jets QB's look like really good guys................If only they were really good QB's :)

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