NOT BUYING THE HYPE

[Matt39]

This is the type of stuff thats meaningless to speculate IMO.  I mean, have it.  I just dont get involved.  Nobody on this board knows the extent of anything you're claiming here. 

 

FWIW - I have a hard time buying that last claim with Revis, Cro and Wilson all on the team when they took MO and were desperate for DE...but thats my point and why I dont get involved with this type of speculation.  What I do know is, Mo was the #1 guy I wanted in that draft.  Maybe a career change is in order? 

 

Smith was the highest rated guy at that point on the Jets board, higher than Wilkerson. Not to keep using this book as a reference....but it states specifically Smith would have been the pick if he were there. 

[ECURB]

I'd say you're in the minority if you disagree. It is unlikely just a rumor that keeping Rex for this season was a condition for Idzik. It is not far-fetched that most GMs want to bring in their own guy if the team isn't already doing well. But then, most teams doing well don't fire their GM in the first place, so it's unusual.

What is your take on the situation, as contradicts what he wrote? Not trying to be a dick; I'm curious.

I have no idea what the outcome will be but I think we really overlook the value of the two AFC Championship games in the eyes of Woody. Those were important games for the franchise, Rex gave them swagger and made them legit. Even if only for a blip on the radar.

[JustInFudge]

Smith was the highest rated guy at that point on the Jets board, higher than Wilkerson. Not to keep using this book as a reference....but it states specifically Smith would have been the pick if he were there. 

 

Does it say in this book who created the "Jets big board"?

[Matt39]

Does it say in this book who created the "Jets big board"?

 

They're all involved. 

[JustInFudge]

They're all involved. 

 

Well, that's very insightfull.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just saying they target guys at certain points of the draft and everyone involved has "their guy" Milliner fell so they went BPA with Austin gone. If I were to guess Rex sold everyone on Sheldon.

Rex isn't changing his spots though. The guy is going to ask for defense every April. He's not scouting WR's. To me Rex is way more obsessed about his legacy as a defensive coach than HC. Come draft time he has no use for new toys e can't play with(offense).

Luckily the Ravens took Jimmy Smith because the Jets would have taken him over Wilkerson as Rex was in love with him and they were hesitant about MO.

 

I don't guess that Idzik placed much or any value in Rex's opinion on any draft picks, FAs, or anything outside of what's the best place for ribs in North Jersey.  

[Matt39]

I don't guess that Idzik placed much or any value in Rex's opinion on any draft picks, FAs, or anything outside of what's the best place for ribs in North Jersey.  

 

Based on what? Rex is in the war room....to say he has no power whatsoever on these matters(especially defensive linemen) is a reach. You don't think Rex was involved in Sheldon's workout or visit to Florham Park? In terms of vetting defense(especially linemen) I think it's pretty obvious Rex's opinion is valued.

[Integrity28]

Never said that but referencing his record in championship games as a negative when most coaches never get their team to that point, seems silly.

 

I'm on record that I favor any decision that finally gets this team a QB or at the very least, a functioning offense that doesnt lose you games.  If that could happen with Rex here, that would be my preference as I believe he's a great HC.  If Idzik feels that means firing Rex, cool, lets do it.  Unfortunately, its not that easy but hey, its out of my control.  I just watch the games and talk about the Jets with morons like you.

 

I'm on record for being a cooler kid than you.

 

Also, I'd like to see Rex coach this team with a competent veteran and Idzik's second off-season of work on the roster.

 

So there.

[Matt39]

Well, that's very insightfull.

 

What do you want to know? Wilkerson was mostly Pettine's guy....they thought he took too many plays off, but at 30 beggers can't be choosers and his wingspan is what sold the organization. 

 

Bradway was behind the Revis tradeup and pushed for him. Tannenbaum, Bradyway, Rex, Pettine, Westhoff all vetted players and tried to sell Tanny come draft day. Rex drafted Scotty McKnight because he was friends with Sanchez and pissed off the entire organization....as you recall Rex always had one pick that was totally his.

[CM28]

Think Tomlin survives this year?  With a 12-win team (that had the NFL's #1 defense) he lost to Tim Tebow in the playoffs on his own turf.  Given the way people speak of our 2009 and 2010 seasons, that is far bigger failure.  The next year he's 8-8.  Now he's 5-8.  Through it all, he's had a HOF QB and some damn good WRs and a supposed genius as his DC.  5 of their losses this year are by a TD or less.  Everyone knows that sometimes losses are just bad breaks but when there are so many like that it's coaching.  When you're getting blown out of the water often, typically, your team just stinks.

 

Is Mike McCarthy a good HC? Without Aaron Rodgers (but with "only" Nelson & Jones at WR), the Packers definitely suck worse than the Geno Smith Jets.  And their division is far more up for grabs than ours.

 

Is John Fox a good HC? His last year in Carolina they went 2-14.  Before Manning came to town they were 8-8 with more impossible/miraculous/divine intervention wins than we've had this season.  Orton isn't good, but he can throw and they had solid receivers & pass rushers and they were still pretty terrible.  Going to Tebow was Elway's way of tanking for a better draft pick (little did he know he'd get it by trading Tebow to Tannenbaum).

 

What was the great Andy Reid's record last year? When he got McCoy injured it was twice as irresponsible as when Sanchez went down in pre-season.  As was your complaint about the recent Jets (until this year when it was foiled twice), what team with a winning record have the Chiefs beaten? The Titans (who themselves hadn't beaten a winning team)?

 

Is Darrell Bevell even a good offensive coordinator if you want an attacking, passing offense? The only top-10 passing team he's ever overseen, in 8 seasons, was with Favre back in 2009.  I find it hard to believe he wasn't at least instrumental in the team trading for, and signing to big bucks, the great Matt Flynn.  Wilson being Wilson is stupid Tom Brady-like luck.  If it wasn't, we'd see a couple just like him come out every season.

 

Does Mike Munchak survive the offseason?

 

I can't believe someone is actually yearning for the 2006-2008 Eric Mangini.  This current coach, who is supposedly worse, took that team (with a rookie Mark Sanchez instead of Brett Favre) and came as close to the SB as this team has come since the 1960s.  Twice.  You want to bring in Mangini to help with the draft? Fine, even if we have to suffer through his Anthony Schlegels here & there.  But he's a horrid gameday head coach who was basically good for nothing except getting people to hate him.  The guy went with a strict 3-4 line with Dewayne Robertson at nose instead of either benching him or trying to find some way he could be a positive (insert bit to tell me about the few games he played well in during his half-decade here).  Someone who would do that is just a bad and stupid HC.  Maybe if he could coach some technique he would have put Pouha in there instead of the guy being a useless sack of garbage pre-Rex.

 

You´re not sure if Rex should be back next year, pending on the final games?! And you have maid your point that not many, if any, coaches could get a better result with this roster. I can buy both arguments.

 

But the million dollar question still stands unanswered, who can write up 2-3 interesting names on the list as potential successors if Rex bombs/Idzik made his mind up? What about one guy? 

 

I think one plus of Rex staying would be that we will get the opportunity to see what MM can get out of an improved O 2014. Another that we will keep Dunbar. The negative would be that IF Rex bombs next season, then we would be a year behind in learning a new system etc in 2015.

[Sperm Edwards]

Based on what? Rex is in the war room....to say he has no power whatsoever on these matters(especially defensive linemen) is a reach. You don't think Rex was involved in Sheldon's workout or visit to Florham Park? In terms of vetting defense(especially linemen) I think it's pretty obvious Rex's opinion is valued.

 

That's right. I think he was in there and had no power.  Or certainly, that he had no power this year.  He's in there because he's the HC and every HC is in every war room (as are the coordinators).

Rex wasn't a guy Idzik knew, worked with, or as far as we know that he even respected.  Rex is the guy Idzik had to agree to keep on if he wanted the job.  The idea that Rex liked a certain CB but Idzik picked Milliner instead (based on his own assessment or on that of the inherited scouts), but then Rex was the driving force behind Richardson, is the reach.

 

Can you name a team whose head coach is absent from their war room? I can't.  Doesn't mean the HC's input is valued.  Rex also clearly didn't want Stephen Hill, yet Hill was not only drafted but we burned another pick to trade up to get him.  All against Rex's wishes.

 

I don't hate Rex nearly like others do, and even I don't believe that Rex should be told a blessed thing unless it's a Machiavellian attempt to get another team to take a player the GM secretly doesn't covet.  Rex has too big of a mouth to let him into the inner circle of thought. Two years in a row he blabbed to exactly one player that we were going to draft him with our first pick, and two times that player was taken 1 pick ahead of us by some major coincidence. 

[bitonti]

 Rex drafted Scotty McKnight because he was friends with Sanchez and pissed off the entire organization....as you recall Rex always had one pick that was totally his.

 

in fairness to the whole situation, the player they wanted was Nick Bellore and no one else drafted him. He's currently one of the Jets best special team players. It's not like they missed out on Nick Bellore due to Scotty McKnight being drafted.

[JustInFudge]

I'm on record for being a cooler kid than you.

 

Also, I'd like to see Rex coach this team with a competent veteran and Idzik's second off-season of work on the roster.

 

So there.

 

Who you calling kid?  I'm a man!

 

What do you want to know? Wilkerson was mostly Pettine's guy....they thought he took too many plays off, but at 30 beggers can't be choosers and his wingspan is what sold the organization. 

 

Bradway was behind the Revis tradeup and pushed for him. Tannenbaum, Bradyway, Rex, Pettine, Westhoff all vetted players and tried to sell Tanny come draft day. Rex drafted Scotty McKnight because he was friends with Sanchez and pissed off the entire organization....as you recall Rex always had one pick that was totally his.

 

Obviously everyone's involved but who held the real power?  I guess thats what I was looking for in a response.

 

Either way, I've been seeing this Scotty McKnight thing thrown around lately...who exactly did the Jets miss out on by drafting him?  I mean, I get you dont just throw players favors and draft their boys, but we're talking about around where the percentages are astronomically against them ever making a roster. 

[Matt39]

That's right. I think he was in there and had no power.  Or certainly, that he had no power this year.  He's in there because he's the HC and every HC is in every war room (as are the coordinators).

Rex wasn't a guy Idzik knew, worked with, or as far as we know that he even respected.  Rex is the guy Idzik had to agree to keep on if he wanted the job.  The idea that Rex liked a certain CB but Idzik picked Milliner instead (based on his own assessment or on that of the inherited scouts), but then Rex was the driving force behind Richardson, is the reach.

 

Can you name a team whose head coach is absent from their war room? I can't.  Doesn't mean the HC's input is valued.  Rex also clearly didn't want Stephen Hill, yet Hill was not only drafted but we burned another pick to trade up to get him.  All against Rex's wishes.

 

I don't hate Rex nearly like others do, and even I don't believe that Rex should be told a blessed thing unless it's a Machiavellian attempt to get another team to take a player the GM secretly doesn't covet.  Rex has too big of a mouth to let him into the inner circle of thought. Two years in a row he blabbed to exactly one player that we were going to draft him with our first pick, and two times that player was taken 1 pick ahead of us by some major coincidence. 

 

I'm just saying as Idzik has put it...its a collective decision. Idzik isnt keeping Rex or other coaches in the dark regarding scouting or potential picks. Rex is involved in that process. Rex doesnt have ultimate power- Idzik does...but his opinion is definitely valued. Rex as we know has always had the loudest voice in the room...and Tanny was easily swayed(considering we've gone defense over and over again). Idzik probably less so.  But I'm sure Rex's written scout on Sheldon Richardson was used when evaluating.

 

I think they wanted Austin badly and with the extra pick they had the luxury of going dline....and Richardson also happened to be really good.

[Matt39]

Who you calling kid?  I'm a man!

 

 

Obviously everyone's involved but who held the real power?  I guess thats what I was looking for in a response.

 

Either way, I've been seeing this Scotty McKnight thing thrown around lately...who exactly did the Jets miss out on by drafting him?  I mean, I get you dont just throw players favors and draft their boys, but we're talking about around where the percentages are astronomically against them ever making a roster. 

 

Its not about missing out its the message it sends. This is like people defending the Chris Smith situation. 

[JustInFudge]

Its not about missing out its the message it sends. This is like people defending the Chris Smith situation. 

 

Agreed.  And I'm not defending it but in the grand scheme of things...not the biggest deal in the world.  I'm sure there have been plenty of instances of coaches giving a guy a shot that has ties to the organization some how.

[Sperm Edwards]

You´re not sure if Rex should be back next year, pending on the final games?! And you have maid your point that not many, if any, coaches could get a better result with this roster. I can buy both arguments.

 

But the million dollar question still stands unanswered, who can write up 2-3 interesting names on the list as potential successors if Rex bombs/Idzik made his mind up? What about one guy? 

 

I think one plus of Rex staying would be that we will get the opportunity to see what MM can get out of an improved O 2014. Another that we will keep Dunbar. The negative would be that IF Rex bombs next season, then we would be a year behind in learning a new system etc in 2015.

 

I'm not sure if Rex should be back next year based more on who the replacement is than how we do in the final 2 games.  I don't hate Rex (ok sometimes I do) but I'm fine with the team moving on if the right person gets hired as his replacement.  This isn't like I felt with that 'tard Edwards where "anyone but ____" would have sufficed.  

 

I would like to retain MM.

[Matt39]

Agreed.  And I'm not defending it but in the grand scheme of things...not the biggest deal in the world.  I'm sure there have been plenty of instances of coaches giving a guy a shot that has ties to the organization some how.

 

Of course it goes on constantly.

 

However saying who's pick is who's...its tough to really say. Idzik was using scouting reports from guys he just let go for the 2013 draft. Maybe Rex has even less of a say come 2014(if he's actually here).

[Sperm Edwards]

I'm just saying as Idzik has put it...its a collective decision. Idzik isnt keeping Rex or other coaches in the dark regarding scouting or potential picks. Rex is involved in that process. Rex doesnt have ultimate power- Idzik does...but his opinion is definitely valued. Rex as we know has always had the loudest voice in the room...and Tanny was easily swayed(considering we've gone defense over and over again). Idzik probably less so.  But I'm sure Rex's written scout on Sheldon Richardson was used when evaluating.

 

I think they wanted Austin badly and with the extra pick they had the luxury of going dline....and Richardson also happened to be really good.

 

I don't know any of these things you say.  Truth is I don't even know if Idzik wanted Austin.  All I know is Rex (allegedly) opened his big yapper and told Austin he was our guy.

[JustInFudge]

Of course it goes on constantly.

 

However saying who's pick is who's...its tough to really say. Idzik was using scouting reports from guys he just let go for the 2013 draft. Maybe Rex has even less of a say come 2014(if he's actually here).

 

Like I said earlier, I find it hard to believe that a brand new GM put a ton of stock into his lame duck head coach's opinion on players.  But maybe he did lean a little heavier this year than he'd like because of the situation.  Again, this is just stuff we'll really never know. 

[Matt39]

I don't know any of these things you say.  Truth is I don't even know if Idzik wanted Austin.  All I know is Rex (allegedly) opened his big yapper and told Austin he was our guy.

 

All we do know is the Jets need to start drafting better. And they need to find some guys who can properly evaluate offense. WR's much to Rex's dismay are an important position. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Like I said earlier, I find it hard to believe that a brand new GM put a ton of stock into his lame duck head coach's opinion on players.  But maybe he did lean a little heavier this year than he'd like because of the situation.  Again, this is just stuff we'll really never know. 

 

This is my opinion.  However a case could be made that the exception was Richardson since DL is Ryan's particular area of expertise.  That being said, there is no evidence that Idzik deferred to Rex for anything (including choosing his own QB with the season about to be underway).

[Jacked4JetsFB]

I look at the names of the QBs on the Jets rosters from 2009-2013 and don't see greatness but for the crappy developing skills of Rex Ryan. Sanchez was overdrafted and undertalented and is an immature goofball. Simms has a strong arm. McElroy had no arm. Tebow had nothing. Then there's also Kellen Clemens (fine job he's doing with the Rams, 7 years into his NFL career) and Mark Brunell. And now we have Geno Smith, totally unready for a starting NFL job, performing just like someone who was unready for an NFL starting job (with some good flashes here & there in between his horribleness, because he does have some talent from the neck down).

The pool of QBs he's had access to does not bode well for a definitive position that a QB cannot develop with Ryan as HC. With the exception of Sanchez, who some people for some reason still believe had some potential to be a good NFL starter, it's not like there has been a pool of great, NFL-ready talent that only fizzled under Ryan's leadership.

Part of the job is knowing they are not ready and not playing them.

Not ruining them is as important as developing.

He has shown zero clue on how to handle the QB position, and stuck with Sanchez way too long after he was clearly shot.

His hiring of Sporano was atrocious .

[Jacked4JetsFB]

You need to stop.

This myth that Rex is somehow intimately involved in nurturing the QB is hogwash. Rex develops the QB about as much as Sean Payton develops the d-lineman and lb's. The vast majority of NFL head coaches have a side of the ball they are more familiar and involved with.

Rex understands developing QB's isn't his strong suit which is why he hired one the better QB coaches in David Lee (a Parcells recommendation), as well as a guy who has a sustained track record for working with excellent QB's in MM.

There is zero evidence to support this claim that an offensive minded HC would have a record better than 6-7. Mike Smith, Shannahan, and Leslie Frasier all coached in the playoffs last year. They also all have worse records than Rex.

The argument has zero to do with anyone having a better record with this team, I don't think anyone else would.

Oh Parcells recommended him, completely changes my mind. Contract extension for Rex!

MM sat behind Reid and did zilch on his own when he had the chance, he is better than Sporano , but I think I am and I am a defensive guy.

Rex has given me zero confidence that he can ever identify or develop a QB, or even find someone who actually can.

[JustInFudge]

The argument has zero to do with anyone having a better record with this team, I don't think anyone else would.

Oh Parcells recommended him, completely changes my mind. Contract extension for Rex!

MM sat behind Reid and did zilch on his own when he had the chance, he is better than Sporano , but I think I am and I am a defensive guy.

Rex has given me zero confidence that he can ever identify or develop a QB, or even find someone who actually can.

 

Out of curiousity...around the league, who would you say is great at identifying and developing QB's?

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Out of curiousity...around the league, who would you say is great at identifying and developing QB's?

There are two ways I look at this, one is guys who have actually done it the right way. We know who the good QBs are and who developed them, I don't really need to look at a list.

Then you can look at guys who have had their chance with one or more highly rated QB who did not pan out, and they probably cannot cut it.

There is no gaurantee that the next guy can develop a QB, but if rather take a chance on someone who has, than give Rex a third one.

[Sperm Edwards]

Part of the job is knowing they are not ready and not playing them.

Not ruining them is as important as developing.

He has shown zero clue on how to handle the QB position, and stuck with Sanchez way too long after he was clearly shot.

His hiring of Sporano was atrocious .

 

Thing with Sanchez is there was no one else to go to when he was bad (or, more correctly, was worse than his normal crappiness).  I understand sometimes making a change just for the sake of it, but you can only change to a guy who's on your roster.  And fresh after awarding Sanchez a shiny new contract, Tannenbaum wasn't providing Rex with another viable option at QB mid-season.

 

Also I don't subscribe to the idea the Rex ruined Sanchez.  It's a player-fan's fantasy.  If he's going to be good he's going to be good no matter how he starts out (serious injury notwithstanding).  Saying someone was permanently ruined, when he was never good to begin with, is a circular argument.  The only way it's provable is if the QB has success away from Rex, and that's not happening.  I believe the plan from the start was to sit Geno and play Garrard and maybe or maybe not even keep Sanchez.  Garrard's retirement changed that.  Since Sanchez was a dead man walking in NY (was only here because of the guarantee combined with there being no one else on the roster) they had a competition which Sanchez didn't win so much as Geno lost, since Sanchez was also his horrible old self in the preseason, fumbling and doing dumb rookie-like things entering his 5th season.  Geno was totally unready and it should have been a walk in the park for Sanchez to secure the starting job before August and couldn't, even with Garrard retiring.

 

The Sparano hiring is indefensible.  The only possible excuse is that he leaned too much on Tuna's endorsement of the guy, but that is still unacceptable.  Even though he did fire him after just 1 year, I can't really give Rex credit for washing the skidmarks when he was the one who sh*t his pants in the first place.  MM seems to be a good hire, though.  Hard to see because there isn't much for him to work with.  There literally isn't one player on offense who is having an outstanding season.  Closest, oddly enough, is probably Austin Howard who no one else wanted in 2012, and who was only given a show-me 1 year extension for this year.  Second-best (or tied, or whatever) is probably Ivory, but he hasn't been nearly healthy enough to say he has had an outstanding season.  Not exactly the building blocks of an elite offense.

[CM28]

That's right. I think he was in there and had no power. Or certainly, that he had no power this year. He's in there because he's the HC and every HC is in every war room (as are the coordinators).

Rex wasn't a guy Idzik knew, worked with, or as far as we know that he even respected. Rex is the guy Idzik had to agree to keep on if he wanted the job. The idea that Rex liked a certain CB but Idzik picked Milliner instead (based on his own assessment or on that of the inherited scouts), but then Rex was the driving force behind Richardson, is the reach.

Can you name a team whose head coach is absent from their war room? I can't. Doesn't mean the HC's input is valued. Rex also clearly didn't want Stephen Hill, yet Hill was not only drafted but we burned another pick to trade up to get him. All against Rex's wishes.

I don't hate Rex nearly like others do, and even I don't believe that Rex should be told a blessed thing unless it's a Machiavellian attempt to get another team to take a player the GM secretly doesn't covet. Rex has too big of a mouth to let him into the inner circle of thought. Two years in a row he blabbed to exactly one player that we were going to draft him with our first pick, and two times that player was taken 1 pick ahead of us by some major coincidence.

This alone makes me wanna wave goodbye!

Two years in a row he blabbed to exactly one player that we were going to draft him with our first pick, and two times that player was taken 1 pick ahead of us by some major coincidence.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Thing with Sanchez is there was no one else to go to when he was bad (or, more correctly, was worse than his normal crappiness).  I understand sometimes making a change just for the sake of it, but you can only change to a guy who's on your roster.  And fresh after awarding Sanchez a shiny new contract, Tannenbaum wasn't providing Rex with another viable option at QB mid-season.

 

Also I don't subscribe to the idea the Rex ruined Sanchez.  It's a player-fan's fantasy.  If he's going to be good he's going to be good no matter how he starts out (serious injury notwithstanding).  Saying someone was permanently ruined, when he was never good to begin with, is a circular argument.  The only way it's provable is if the QB has success away from Rex, and that's not happening.  I believe the plan from the start was to sit Geno and play Garrard and maybe or maybe not even keep Sanchez.  Garrard's retirement changed that.  Since Sanchez was a dead man walking in NY (was only here because of the guarantee combined with there being no one else on the roster) they had a competition which Sanchez didn't win so much as Geno lost, since Sanchez was also his horrible old self in the preseason, fumbling and doing dumb rookie-like things entering his 5th season.  Geno was totally unready and it should have been a walk in the park for Sanchez to secure the starting job before August and couldn't, even with Garrard retiring.

 

The Sparano hiring is indefensible.  The only possible excuse is that he leaned too much on Tuna's endorsement of the guy, but that is still unacceptable.  Even though he did fire him after just 1 year, I can't really give Rex credit for washing the skidmarks when he was the one who sh*t his pants in the first place.  MM seems to be a good hire, though.  Hard to see because there isn't much for him to work with.  There literally isn't one player on offense who is having an outstanding season.  Closest, oddly enough, is probably Austin Howard who no one else wanted in 2012, and who was only given a show-me 1 year extension for this year.  Second-best (or tied, or whatever) is probably Ivory, but he hasn't been nearly healthy enough to say he has had an outstanding season.  Not exactly the building blocks of an elite offense.

 

I don't know if you have ever played sports, but you completely ignore the mental side of sports.

 

In particular, the play of a QB is so highly determined by confidence.

 

Ruin a QB's confidence and they may not get it back.

 

There is so much precision in an NFL passing game that most people have no friggin clue how complex and precise it is. How much the timing between a QB and WR matters when you are throwing to a small window between a bunch of guys running 4.3-4.4 while having monsters chasing you.

 

This notion of either good or bad is such complete nonsense. Look at guys like Brees and Manning who three years in looked like crap and have 3 SB MVP's between them.

 

Offense is a system, the QB is the most important part of the system, but if the system is broken the engine won't look good.

 

QB's can be broken, some can be fixed, some cannot be.

[T0mShane]

You'd be surprised what I jerk off to, clowns.

[faba]

You'd be surprised what I jerk off to, clowns.

Sexual deviant

[CM28]

I'm not sure if Rex should be back next year based more on who the replacement is than how we do in the final 2 games. I don't hate Rex (ok sometimes I do) but I'm fine with the team moving on if the right person gets hired as his replacement. This isn't like I felt with that 'tard Edwards where "anyone but ____" would have sufficed.

And do you have a shortlist? I'm curious. I am too much of a rookie to make my own. Fact.

I would like to retain MM.

Me too but i think that the only chance of that to happen, it would mean the new HC was another defensive minded guy. Which i am against. I think we have a better chance of winning with a new offensive minded HC or is there such a thing as a complete HC? Both O and D oriented?

[Sperm Edwards]

I don't know if you have ever played sports, but you completely ignore the mental side of sports.

 

In particular, the play of a QB is so highly determined by confidence.

 

Ruin a QB's confidence and they may not get it back.

 

There is so much precision in an NFL passing game that most people have no friggin clue how complex and precise it is. How much the timing between a QB and WR matters when you are throwing to a small window between a bunch of guys running 4.3-4.4 while having monsters chasing you.

 

This notion of either good or bad is such complete nonsense. Look at guys like Brees and Manning who three years in looked like crap and have 3 SB MVP's between them.

 

Offense is a system, the QB is the most important part of the system, but if the system is broken the engine won't look good.

 

QB's can be broken, some can be fixed, some cannot be.

 

I have played plenty, and the good players are good.  You know who's good and who's a faker and which guys are playing above their abilities and which are slacking. Sanchez was not talented enough to be a top passer. He cannot thread the needle and all of Rex's defensive-minded coaching didn't do anything to cause it.  His receivers aren't as open as they were at USC and those passes 2 yards off the mark, that were TDs in college, are batted down or picked off in the NFL.

 

If he is so emotionally retarded that he gets permanently ruined by being thrown in there for 30 pass attempts, 15x in a year, after throwing countless thousands in practice, then he was never going to be good.  The only exception is if he sustains an injury that prevents him from being something he (genetically) once was.  Possibly if someone has been concussed into oblivion like Carr.  Neither of those were the case with Sanchez, and so far is not the case with Geno.  If you seriously think Sanchez was just tossed out there with no coaching that is on you.  It is a fantasy that four years of coaching couldn't get him to stop staring down his receivers, or throw a ball more accurately, or hold onto the football, because the coaching was bad.  When you go around the league and start pointing to all the other sucky QBs - which is most QBs - who were all ruined by someone other than Rex Ryan, then I'll start paying attention. 

 

It is an unprovable theory that a QB is permanently ruined by a rough first year (or years).  There is no control group whereby his identical twin thrives at the same position in a different environment.  You wish it to be so because it provides an easy scapegoat for the target of your ire, but that doesn't make it so.  Sanchez sucked.  McElroy sucked.  Clemens sucked.  Tebow sucked.  And so far, for the most part, Geno has sucked (though it's only his rookie season).  Oh yeah, and Simms sucks also.  Who else was there? A month of Brady Quinn? The only one on any Rex roster who might not have sucked (at the time he was on the Ryan Jets) is probably David Garrard, sadly.

[JustInFudge]

There are two ways I look at this, one is guys who have actually done it the right way. We know who the good QBs are and who developed them, I don't really need to look at a list.

Then you can look at guys who have had their chance with one or more highly rated QB who did not pan out, and they probably cannot cut it.

There is no gaurantee that the next guy can develop a QB, but if rather take a chance on someone who has, than give Rex a third one.

 

So, no examples?

[flgreen]

Sexual deviant

This comes as a surprise to you?