NOT BUYING THE HYPE

[sourceworx]

@ SW--Rex makes the playoffs and he will be a candidate for HC of the year.

@Lupz--If they give him a 1 year ext, they will need to re-ext him at the end of next year to avoid him coaching in the last year of his contract which doesn't happed to HCs.

 

 

I agree.  However that's what it's going to take to save his job.  Idzik, like any other GM, wants to bring his own guy in to coach the team.  He was willing to stick with Rex for a year to satisfy Woody.  But that's just about done now, so the only way for Rex to save himself is to make the playoffs.  

 

It would be really hard for Idzik to justify firing a coach who took this putrid roster to the postseason.

 

But this is all moot, because our chances of getting in are very, very slim.

[slats]

Because Rex parachuted into Florham Park in September and--boom--there this roster was.

The roster was Tannenbaum's fault right up until the the moment he was fired, then it all of a sudden became Rex's fault.

But I still think it's Tannenbaum's fault, right into this year where the new GM had no money to do anything in free agency because Tanny left no room under the cap. Rex had no control over the trading of the picks and the bad contracts. Yeah, maybe he said things like, "go get that guy," but it's up to the GM to do that intelligently - or not at all if it can't be done intelligently. Tannenbaum, instead, spent whatever it took to get the guy he or Rex wanted, and it left the roster completely bereft of depth. The bad way he went about doing things was compounded by the bad choices they made - particularly at QB. What's more, is that you know this as well or better than anyone else.

Idzik gets a clean slate with the roster next year. If he really wants a clean slate at coach, he can have that, too. Next year is really his first year building the team. This year was demolition, next year is construction.

[Scott Dierking]

The roster was Tannenbaum's fault right up until the the moment he was fired, then it all of a sudden became Rex's fault.

But I still think it's Tannenbaum's fault, right into this year where the new GM had no money to do anything in free agency because Tanny left no room under the cap. Rex had no control over the trading of the picks and the bad contracts. Yeah, maybe he said things like, "go get that guy," but it's up to the GM to do that intelligently - or not at all if it can't be done intelligently. Tannenbaum, instead, spent whatever it took to get the guy he or Rex wanted, and it left the roster completely bereft of depth. The bad way he went about doing things was compounded by the bad choices they made - particularly at QB. What's more, is that you know this as well or better than anyone else.

Idzik gets a clean slate with the roster next year. If he really wants a clean slate at coach, he can have that, too. Next year is really his first year building the team. This year was demolition, next year is construction.

Just like Ed Reed was all Idzik, right?

[sourceworx]

Just like Ed Reed was all Idzik, right?

 

Who is in charge then?  If Rex is pulling the strings on personnel decisions, then what is Idzik doing here?

 

I agree that the Reed signing has Rex's fingerprints all over it.  But why didn't Idzik veto this move?  He's the GM.  If Rex wants to sign a player, and Idzik disagrees with it, he should shoot it down.  He didn't, so he's just as culpable.

[Klecko73isGod]

Wait a second... there is hype?

[Scott Dierking]

Who is in charge then?  If Rex is pulling the strings on personnel decisions, then what is Idzik doing here?

 

I agree that the Reed signing has Rex's fingerprints all over it.  But why didn't Idzik veto this move?  He's the GM.  If Rex wants to sign a player, and Idzik disagrees with it, he should shoot it down.  He didn't, so he's just as culpable.

I am countering that Rex has ZERO influence on the roster. It is just not true. he was involved with many decisions with Tannenbaum, it is obvious

[slats]

I am countering that Rex has ZERO influence on the roster. It is just not true. he was involved with many decisions with Tannenbaum, it is obvious

You're countering the same old strawman.

[bitonti]

 And the 20,000+ empy seats are eventually going to speak way louder than anything else.  

 

20000 empty but paid for seats. Woody doesn't care if people show up he cares if they buy the tickets.

[Scott Dierking]

You're countering the same old strawman.

Darryl?

[sourceworx]

I am countering that Rex has ZERO influence on the roster. It is just not true. he was involved with many decisions with Tannenbaum, it is obvious

 

 

Of course he was.  Rex isn't without blame.  

 

The problem is Tanny couldn't make the decisions himself, so he leaned way too much on his coaches for input.  He did so with Mangini as well.  That doesn't make either coach bad at being a coach.  It makes Tanny a horrible GM.

 

Many coaches should not have such a strong influence on the personnel decisions.  Case in point: Mike Holmgren.  An excellent coach, but he was a disaster at making personnel decisions.

[Scott Dierking]

20000 empty but paid for seats. Woody doesn't care if people show up he cares if they buy the tickets.

Pretty sure he cares that they show up, buy expensive beer and concessions and make for a warm friendly view on TV

[Scott Dierking]

Of course he was.  Rex isn't without blame.  

 

The problem is Tanny couldn't make the decisions himself, so he leaned way too much on his coaches for input.  He did so with Mangini as well.  That doesn't make either coach bad at being a coach.  It makes Tanny a horrible GM.

 

Many coaches should not have such a strong influence on the personnel decisions.  Case in point: Mike Holmgren.  An excellent coach, but he was a disaster at making personnel decisions.

From what I have read, Slats does not believe that. EVERYTHING was on Tanny.

[slats]

From what I have read, Slats does not believe that. EVERYTHING was on Tanny.

I imagine this is because you can't read.

[Pac]

I'm a little disappointed. I thought the Rex Fanboy Legion would have more vigor today.

 

The results speak for themselves.  You and the geek squad just got served..  again.

[Scott Dierking]

I imagine this is because you can't read.

I imagine it is the essence you give off

[T0mShane]

The roster was Tannenbaum's fault right up until the the moment he was fired, then it all of a sudden became Rex's fault.

But I still think it's Tannenbaum's fault, right into this year where the new GM had no money to do anything in free agency because Tanny left no room under the cap. Rex had no control over the trading of the picks and the bad contracts. Yeah, maybe he said things like, "go get that guy," but it's up to the GM to do that intelligently - or not at all if it can't be done intelligently. Tannenbaum, instead, spent whatever it took to get the guy he or Rex wanted, and it left the roster completely bereft of depth. The bad way he went about doing things was compounded by the bad choices they made - particularly at QB. What's more, is that you know this as well or better than anyone else.

Idzik gets a clean slate with the roster next year. If he really wants a clean slate at coach, he can have that, too. Next year is really his first year building the team. This year was demolition, next year is construction.

I just find it implausible that Tannenbaum, limited though he was, and now Idzik have loaded the roster up with all of these undevelopable players that are holding Rex down. Even Mangini seemed to cull more useful players from those Tannenbaum drafts. The common denominator in these bad drafted players has been Rex.

[Klecko73isGod]

20000 empty but paid for seats. Woody doesn't care if people show up he cares if they buy the tickets.

 

People who don't show up don't buy beer and hot dogs. If you figure each attendee spends approx $15.00 once in the stadium (which is probably low,) that's $300k less going into Woody's pocket. That ain't chump change. 

[Sperm Edwards]

I would like a 1 year extension on his existing contract which has 1 year left, keep the flame warm, I think he deserves that 2014, and 2015. Reevaluate then, hopefully for Rex him, and the Idzik clan find a QB, and I believe a nice long extension will come from those extra 2 years!

 

See, here's where you and I diverge on this.  He's either earned a multi-year extension or he has not.  If he only gets a 1-year extension then - in the players' eyes - he's no less of a lame duck HC than without it.  He's still just as replaceable in 2015 whether he has 1 or 0 years left on his contract.  So the question is whether he has earned a 2-3 year extension (on top of the 1 year he already has remaining), or whether he has not.  I don't think he has.  Still unsure as to whether or not he should even return for that final year, but only because it depends on who he's getting replaced with, but I don't think he's earned an extension of any length.

 

The team was playing at least average for a while, but came back down to earth (to the talent level they actually have) and it's a what have you done for me lately league.  It's absurd to say how much better we'd be, with this roster, if only someone else was the HC.  There are over a dozen teams with an even worse record than we've got and all of them don't have worse rosters and no giftie wins.  And among those with better records, I guarantee they all haven't "earned" every win and didn't get any huge ref gifts that ultimately decided the game.  But we've looked atrocious on too many occasions this year alone to warrant any type of extension.

 

If he doesn't get fired, he should just play out his current contract and earn an extension.  If he's doing well, it can be offered to him mid-season or in January.  Unlike players, who must max out every dollar when their 1 opportunity arises, a HC is different.  If the team's done well enough at the close of the 2014 season to warrant a 3-year (give or take) extension, he'll take it with the Jets.  He's an emotional guy and it'll be his team and he's not going to run away to another city.  The only question, theoretically, is how it affects his relationship with his players during that final contract year.  I don't think a weak, 1-year extension does a blessed thing to change that.

 

Only way I change my mind on that is if we win out and make the playoffs.  That would be an accomplishment with this roster.

[slats]

I just find it implausible that Tannenbaum, limited though he was, and now Idzik have loaded the roster up with all of these undevelopable players that are holding Rex down. Even Mangini seemed to cull more useful players from those Tannenbaum drafts. The common denominator in these bad drafted players has been Rex.

No he didn't, not even close.

If Idzik needs to lean on his coach for personnel decisions, too, because he's not a personnel guy, either, then the Jets have a new problem.

[Klecko73isGod]

I just find it implausible that Tannenbaum, limited though he was, and now Idzik have loaded the roster up with all of these undevelopable players that are holding Rex down. Even Mangini seemed to cull more useful players from those Tannenbaum drafts. The common denominator in these bad drafted players has been Rex.

 

Not for nothing but Idzik's only had one financially strapped offseason. He wasn't in a position to have much positive impact on the roster. He had some hits and some misses. Which is usually the case when you don't have the cap space to make a splash. 

 

I remember during Hard Knocks Rex saying that Tannenbaum gave him one pick per year. That particular year it was the John Conner. Conner didn't work out long term but one pick per year does not equal the entire roster being Rex's fault. 

[flgreen]

In all honesty very few coaches have much input into draft picks.  During the season when the draft picks are playing, the HC of an NFL team is kind of busy to be scouting NCAA players.   That's why they have scouts.

 

After the season the scouts present the players they think are NFL quality to the head of college scouting.  Who does have time.  Reviews them, creates a "Big board", and makes recommendations to the GM.

 

In most cases the HC presents a wish list to the GM on positional needs.  In some cases he is consulted on the selection.

 

The idea that HC's scout and select the draft picks is a myth.  A lot of the time the HC has only seen a few tapes of drafted players.

[Lupz27]

The results speak for themselves.  You and the geek squad just got served..  again.

I guess we will have to be the fan boy legion, which I am not, I just don't think Rex is as bad as these dudes make him out to be, when I look at some of the coaches across this league I am glad to have Rex Ryan, he is far from the best HC, but much further from the worst, and I also believe he has a lot to learn, and he has many good coaching years left in him to learn if given the chance a Cohwer, and a Marvin Lewis were given, and don't want to be the Cleveland Browns watching Belicheck be called the greatest HC of all time whether you believe it, or not.

[flgreen]

I guess we will have to be the fan boy legion, which I am not, I just don't think Rex is as bad as these dudes make him out to be, when I look at some of the coaches across this league I am glad to have Rex Ryan, he is far from the best HC, but much further from the worst, and I also believe he has a lot to learn, and he has many good coaching years left in him to learn if given the chance a Cohwer, and a Marvin Lewis were given, and don't want to be the Cleveland Browns watching Belicheck be called the greatest HC of all time whether you believe it, or not.

+1

[Lupz27]

See, here's where you and I diverge on this.  He's either earned a multi-year extension or he has not.  If he only gets a 1-year extension then - in the players' eyes - he's no less of a lame duck HC than without it.  He's still just as replaceable in 2015 whether he has 1 or 0 years left on his contract.  So the question is whether he has earned a 2-3 year extension (on top of the 1 year he already has remaining), or whether he has not.  I don't think he has.  Still unsure as to whether or not he should even return for that final year, but only because it depends on who he's getting replaced with, but I don't think he's earned an extension of any length.

 

The team was playing at least average for a while, but came back down to earth (to the talent level they actually have) and it's a what have you done for me lately league.  It's absurd to say how much better we'd be, with this roster, if only someone else was the HC.  There are over a dozen teams with an even worse record than we've got and all of them don't have worse rosters and no giftie wins.  And among those with better records, I guarantee they all haven't "earned" every win and didn't get any huge ref gifts that ultimately decided the game.  But we've looked atrocious on too many occasions this year alone to warrant any type of extension.

 

If he doesn't get fired, he should just play out his current contract and earn an extension.  If he's doing well, it can be offered to him mid-season or in January.  Unlike players, who must max out every dollar when their 1 opportunity arises, a HC is different.  If the team's done well enough at the close of the 2014 season to warrant a 3-year (give or take) extension, he'll take it with the Jets.  He's an emotional guy and it'll be his team and he's not going to run away to another city.  The only question, theoretically, is how it affects his relationship with his players during that final contract year.  I don't think a weak, 1-year extension does a blessed thing to change that.

 

Only way I change my mind on that is if we win out and make the playoffs.  That would be an accomplishment with this roster.

Very fair.

And for a coach like Rex I think for him he could believe he can do a good job with no guarantee he is coaching the next season, he believes his players do love playing for him, and he believes they are his guys, and this IMO would think he would believe his players would go out, and play for him so he can be their HC the next season. Whether that is true, or not is for everyone else to decide, I'm just saying IMO Rex thinks this way, and might be one of the few coaches who could mentally operate under these conditions, unlike Don Mattingly crying he couldn't coach with a 1 year contract.

[Sperm Edwards]

Very fair.

And for a coach like Rex I think for him he could believe he can do a good job with no guarantee he is coaching the next season, he believes his players do love playing for him, and he believes they are his guys, and this IMO would think he would believe his players would go out, and play for him so he can be their HC the next season. Whether that is true, or not is for everyone else to decide, I'm just saying IMO Rex thinks this way, and might be one of the few coaches who could mentally operate under these conditions, unlike Don Mattingly crying he couldn't coach with a 1 year contract.

 

If the Jets don't fire Rex, and we win 10-12 games or do whatever a consensus agrees is enough to warrant an extension, he's not bolting or testing the market.  A player would, and a player is right to do it.  A HC is better off with stability, and given Rex's personality I'd be surprised if he went anywhere even if Idzik/Woody let him play out the season as a lame duck.

 

Also it's different playing out that final year, for a coach as opposed to a player, because Rex doesn't have any injury risk (Sean Payton busting his ACL on the sideline notwithstanding).  A player can blow out his knee or shoulder or get paralyzed and that's the end of the life he once knew. 

[T0mShane]

Not for nothing but Idzik's only had one financially strapped offseason. He wasn't in a position to have much positive impact on the roster. He had some hits and some misses. Which is usually the case when you don't have the cap space to make a splash.

I remember during Hard Knocks Rex saying that Tannenbaum gave him one pick per year. That particular year it was the John Conner. Conner didn't work out long term but one pick per year does not equal the entire roster being Rex's fault.

Even if we subscribe to the theory that Rex never picked a single player, the fact is he's done an awful job with the players he was given.

[slats]

Even if we subscribe to the theory that Rex never picked a single player, the fact is he's done an awful job with the players he was given.

That's not a fact, that's an opinion. I don't think there are many coaches out there who'd be any better than 6-7 with this roster, and quite a few who'd be significantly worse.

[Scott Dierking]

That's not a fact, that's an opinion. I don't think there are many coaches out there who'd be any better than 6-7 with this roster, and quite a few who'd be significantly worse.

that would be an opinion also

[Lupz27]

If the Jets don't fire Rex, and we win 10-12 games or do whatever a consensus agrees is enough to warrant an extension, he's not bolting or testing the market.  A player would, and a player is right to do it.  A HC is better off with stability, and given Rex's personality I'd be surprised if he went anywhere even if Idzik/Woody let him play out the season as a lame duck.

 

Also it's different playing out that final year, for a coach as opposed to a player, because Rex doesn't have any injury risk (Sean Payton busting his ACL on the sideline notwithstanding).  A player can blow out his knee or shoulder or get paralyzed and that's the end of the life he once knew.

No he would stay here no doubt about it if the Jets offered him an extension whether it be tomorrow, or the day before his contract ran out next year, he loves this job, and if he left it would make him look really bad, his whole philosophy, and style is based on loyalty.

My only gripe with not giving Rex that 2nd year is watching next years team start slow, sort of have that pre gelling struggle with all the new pieces, mostly young draft picks teams can have, and then watch the team start to come together in the 2nd half, have a bad bounce, or 2 early on, and maybe one really tough loss late to miss the playoffs, but you just know that the following season that team is going to be awesome, but it costs Rex his job, and then the new HC has a new system, moving the balance of the previous direction, and not realizing the teams potential, I'll use the 2000 NYJ's as an example, if Parcells, or Belicheck stay on that year I really believe the Jets win the Super Bowl, Al Groh just didn't have what it takes to be an NFL HC, and the direction of the team was moved away from the Parcells/Belicheck style (not because Groh didn't try, but IMO the players just didn't believe in it from him like they did, or would have from the Bill's).

I know I went off track a little like usual, but that is my concern with only giving Rex 1 more year, and if Woody is wiling to eat the $$$ to fire Rex after 2 years even thou he still would be under contract for 1, of 2 more years then great I'm on board with extending Rex the 3 years it's not my money, but if he isn't then no I would only at most be willing to give Rex 2 more years to show he deserves to get another long 5 year extension.

[T0mShane]

No he didn't, not even close.

If Idzik needs to lean on his coach for personnel decisions, too, because he's not a personnel guy, either, then the Jets have a new problem.

Three Mangini-era drafts produced 14 Pro Bowl appearances. Four Rex drafts have produced zero. Chansi Stuckey was better than Stephen Hill is. Dustin Keller has doubled Kerley's production. Dwight Lowery and Drew Coleman have had better careers than Kyle Wilson.

[T0mShane]

That's not a fact, that's an opinion. I don't think there are many coaches out there who'd be any better than 6-7 with this roster, and quite a few who'd be significantly worse.

I don't think there are any coaches who would survive a three year stretch like Rex has had. Zero.

[T0mShane]

The results speak for themselves

Which results?

[Lupz27]

I don't think there are any coaches who would survive a three year stretch like Rex has had. Zero.

Marvin Lewis disagrees with you, multiple times actually!

[slats]

Three Mangini-era drafts produced 14 Pro Bowl appearances. Four Rex drafts have produced zero. Chansi Stuckey was better than Stephen Hill is. Dustin Keller has doubled Kerley's production. Dwight Lowery and Drew Coleman have had better careers than Kyle Wilson.

Mangini won four games with a roster that's much better than the one Rex is currently working with. Rex won four playoff games with Mark Sanchez at QB, while Mangini won zero with Pennington and Favre. It's not even close. Mangini may've acted more the way you like a head coach to act, but he was incompetent.

It's not even close.

[SenorGato]

Even if we subscribe to the theory that Rex never picked a single player, the fact is he's done an awful job with the players he was given.

 

Already said, but this is not a fact, this is your opinion. 

 

 

I don't think there are any coaches who would survive a three year stretch like Rex has had. Zero. 

 

 

 

I think the vast majority of coaches would have been worse with the talent on the roster over the past 3 years. The number of coaches who could even go 13-17 with these rosters from 2012 and 2013 is probably very, very small.