The Offensive Line

[artemusclyde]

They can Tahj Boyd it up in the 2nd or 3rd and convince the fan base that the position has been addressed.  Kinda like we did with Geno Smith. 

 

Except I don't buy into that sh*t, he was or was near the worst starting qb in the league. 

[artemusclyde]

My mock falls apart after 12, but it's GOLD before that. I think the Raiders will punt on a QB until next year.

 

Tanking for Winston?

[Greenseed4]

Except I don't buy into that sh*t, he was or was near the worst starting qb in the league. 

 

Yes.  But it would buy the Raiders a year to justify their taking a DL or skill position in the first round despite glaring needs at the QB spot. 

[T0mShane]

Tanking for Winston?

Top of next year's draft: Winston, Mariota, Hundley. All three of them are preferable to Blake Bortles or Derek Carr, IMO.

[T0mShane]

They can Tahj Boyd it up in the 2nd or 3rd and convince the fan base that the position has been addressed. Kinda like we did with Geno Smith.

The Raider fanbase is dumb as a stump. The owner graciously decided to let Dennis Allen stay on for one more year, so they're certainly laying the groundwork for a lost season anyway.

[HessStation]

My mock falls apart after 12, but it's GOLD before that. I think the Raiders will punt on a QB until next year.

Anticipating how your 5th round shapes out. 

[HessStation]

Top of next year's draft: Winston, Mariota, Hundley. All three of them are preferable to Blake Bortles or Derek Carr, IMO.

 

Enthusiastically agree.

[Il Mostro]

Top of next year's draft: Winston, Mariota, Hundley. All three of them are preferable to Blake Bortles or Derek Carr, IMO.

 

 

Agreed on all counts. If Hundley can keep progressing on the same steep curve, he might turn out to be the pick of the litter.  Huge improvement in all areas this season, but has he reached his ceiling? 

[joewillie78]

This is true.  But can we really credit them for that?  That was a weird year for the NFL.  Sort of like when the Pistons won the 2005 NBA Title without a superstar.  We've never had a season where a QB the caliber of a Brad Johnson has won a title since that 2002 NFL season.  It was the end of an era.

If it was the end of an era, then why does it seem that our organization and especially our coach, are trying to duplicate such a rare feat.

 

You know, sos-so QB, good defense, and I guess get lucky in the draw.

 

Why not go with what works the other 99% of the time, FRANCHISE QB, great offense, and play decent defense and special teams. It works for others but since we are the Jets, we have to be different?

[Bleedin Green]

If it was the end of an era, then why does it seem that our organization and especially our coach, are trying to duplicate such a rare feat.

 

You know, sos-so QB, good defense, and I guess get lucky in the draw.

 

Why not go with what works the other 99% of the time, FRANCHISE QB, great offense, and play decent defense and special teams. It works for others but since we are the Jets, we have to be different?

 

Yes, because quite clearly the Jets going after QBs pretty much non-stop ever since 2006 (with the sole exception of a small window in which they thought Sanchez might be "the guy") was in an attempt to intentionally get crappy QBs, with absolutely no hopes whatsoever to finally get their franchise guy.  If only they had thought to try to get a franchise QB they'd be set; after all it's just so damn easy, and I'm sure they would be so great at it too, if they only just tried.

[bitonti]

back to this topic at hand the Jets need to resign Austin Howard. They can work out some sort of deal to bring back Colon on the extra cheap, since he's now hurt. 

 

the line looks like this: 

DBrick -- Winters -- Mangold -- Colon -- Howard

 

with Oday/Ijalana fighting for the swing tackle role and Campbell pushing Colon. They probably need another guard for developmental/depth purposes to fight with Campbell.  If you listen to Idzik's post season interview on Jets.com, he is supportive of Campbell and Oday, even though they didn't get active. 

 

I don't think they use anything but a 3rd day draft pick on OL. 

[joewillie78]

Yes, because quite clearly the Jets going after QBs pretty much non-stop ever since 2006 (with the sole exception of a small window in which they thought Sanchez might be "the guy") was in an attempt to intentionally get crappy QBs, with absolutely no hopes whatsoever to finally get their franchise guy.  If only they had thought to try to get a franchise QB they'd be set; after all it's just so damn easy, and I'm sure they would be so great at it too, if they only just tried.

Did you happen to see the post on the so called draft history of "quarterbacks" the Jets have drafted in the past 12 years.

 

A complete abomination of whoever scouts QB's for this team.

 

Trying is drafting guys like Brooks Bollinger, Eric Ainge, Greg Mcelroy, Kellen Clemens, Geno Smith?

 

They tried ONCE, SANCHEZ, failed miserably and now the rhetoric is that "We cant make that mistake again", sure you can, and probably will, but that is the lamest reason not to keep trying.

 

You may have the opinion that they have tried but I have the exact opposite opinion, that they never try, at least not with this coach, as he has convinced some in the organization and some fans, that he can with Defense in the modern day NFL.

[Bleedin Green]

Did you happen to see the post on the so called draft history of "quarterbacks" the Jets have drafted in the past 12 years.

 

A complete abomination of whoever scouts QB's for this team.

 

Trying is drafting guys like Brooks Bollinger, Eric Ainge, Greg Mcelroy, Kellen Clemens, Geno Smith?

 

They tried ONCE, SANCHEZ, failed miserably and now the rhetoric is that "We cant make that mistake again", sure you can, and probably will, but that is the lamest reason not to keep trying.

 

You may have the opinion that they have tried but I have the exact opposite opinion, that they never try, at least not with this coach, as he has convinced some in the organization and some fans, that he can with Defense in the modern day NFL.

 

They failed in their attempts, nobody is arguing that.  Your point was that the Jets did not even try, and should have gone with the allegedly simple task of just getting a franchise guy, because you know, that's what everyone does and it's just so damn easy.  Both Clemens and Smith were considered amongst the top QBs in their respective draft classes and, at the time of they were drafted, the Jets' future at QB.  The fact that the former clearly did not work out and the latter has had a rocky start does absolutely nothing to change that.  The Jets have also added a variety of players via both free agency and trade at QB over that same time period.  Once again, the ultimate failure of those QBs does literally nothing to support your argument that the team has made no effort to address the position.

 

Your position is not an opinion, you are making a statement which is factually incorrect.  The Jets suck at addressing the QB position, this has been a reality for a very long time, far longer than anyone currently involved with this team has been around, but there is a significant difference between that and not trying.  That you apparently refuse to acknowledge that distinction doesn't change the reality that there is one.

[Bleedin Green]

back to this topic at hand the Jets need to resign Austin Howard. They can work out some sort of deal to bring back Colon on the extra cheap, since he's now hurt. 

 

the line looks like this: 

DBrick -- Winters -- Mangold -- Colon -- Howard

 

with Oday/Ijalana fighting for the swing tackle role and Campbell pushing Colon. They probably need another guard for developmental/depth purposes to fight with Campbell.  If you listen to Idzik's post season interview on Jets.com, he is supportive of Campbell and Oday, even though they didn't get active. 

 

I don't think they use anything but a 3rd day draft pick on OL. 

 

I definitely agree with this.  No reason to create any more holes on this team and Howard is a solid player, so he should be a priority to bring back.  Like you said, Colon will also come cheap, so no reason not to bring him back as well, although I would probably be interested to see the Jets look for another G come FA time.  Nothing major, but an established guy as insurance / possible competition.  Guard is one of the few positions where there are options like that in free agency ever year without a major commitment, just like the Bears got last year with Slauson.

[#27TheDominator]

Did you happen to see the post on the so called draft history of "quarterbacks" the Jets have drafted in the past 12 years.

 

A complete abomination of whoever scouts QB's for this team.

 

Trying is drafting guys like Brooks Bollinger, Eric Ainge, Greg Mcelroy, Kellen Clemens, Geno Smith?

 

They tried ONCE, SANCHEZ, failed miserably and now the rhetoric is that "We cant make that mistake again", sure you can, and probably will, but that is the lamest reason not to keep trying.

 

You may have the opinion that they have tried but I have the exact opposite opinion, that they never try, at least not with this coach, as he has convinced some in the organization and some fans, that he can with Defense in the modern day NFL.

 

Have you noticed that they have a new GM? The prior GM traded up for Clemens and Sanchez and traded for Favre. This SOJ woe is me bullsh*t is beyond belief.  

[joewillie78]

They failed in their attempts, nobody is arguing that.  Your point was that the Jets did not even try, and should have gone with the allegedly simple task of just getting a franchise guy, because you know, that's what everyone does and it's just so damn easy.  Both Clemens and Smith were considered amongst the top QBs in their respective draft classes and, at the time of they were drafted, the Jets' future at QB.  The fact that the former clearly did not work out and the latter has had a rocky start does absolutely nothing to change that.  The Jets have also added a variety of players via both free agency and trade at QB over that same time period.  Once again, the ultimate failure of those QBs does literally nothing to support your argument that the team has made no effort to address the position.

 

Your position is not an opinion, you are making a statement which is factually incorrect.  The Jets suck at addressing the QB position, this has been a reality for a very long time, far longer than anyone currently involved with this team has been around, but there is a significant difference between that and not trying.  That you apparently refuse to acknowledge that distinction doesn't change the reality that there is one.

Fair enough.

 

So my conclusion from our discussion: Keep trying and try harder. Do you agree?

[joewillie78]

Have you noticed that they have a new GM? The prior GM traded up for Clemens and Sanchez and traded for Favre. This SOJ woe is me bullsh*t is beyond belief.  

Yes, and I support this GM very much. I just hope that he's doing the drafting and picking FA's and not our coach.

[#27TheDominator]

Yes, and I support this GM very much. I just hope that he's doing the drafting and picking FA's and not our coach.

 

Yep.  Sure.  That is why the last GM was fired.  Because Rex Ryan did not draft good players or sign good free agents.  What the **** man? 

[Jetsfan80]

Fair enough.

 

So my conclusion from our discussion: Keep trying and try harder. Do you agree?

 

Our new GM has had 1 draft and used a 2nd rounder on a QB with a consensus 1st round grade.  So far it seems he's doing what he's supposed to do.  2 new QB's is my expectation this offseason. 

[joewillie78]

Yep.  Sure.  That is why the last GM was fired.  Because Rex Ryan did not draft good players or sign good free agents.  What the **** man? 

To a point , Yes, and I know Tanny was the GM but REX had huge influence on Tanny, that I dont believe he has on Idzik. At least I hope not.

[joewillie78]

Our new GM has had 1 draft and used a 2nd rounder on a QB with a consensus 1st round grade.  So far it seems he's doing what he's supposed to do.  2 new QB's is my expectation this offseason. 

Who?, in the other thread, you trashed McCarron, Manziel, Vick, Kolb.

[BroadwayJoe12]

back to this topic at hand the Jets need to resign Austin Howard. They can work out some sort of deal to bring back Colon on the extra cheap, since he's now hurt. 

 

the line looks like this: 

DBrick -- Winters -- Mangold -- Colon -- Howard

 

with Oday/Ijalana fighting for the swing tackle role and Campbell pushing Colon. They probably need another guard for developmental/depth purposes to fight with Campbell.  If you listen to Idzik's post season interview on Jets.com, he is supportive of Campbell and Oday, even though they didn't get active. 

 

I don't think they use anything but a 3rd day draft pick on OL. 

 

I don't see how they don't resign Howard, it would be beyond baffling. He's just entering his prime at 26 years old, only allowed two sacks and I believe only registered something like two holding penalties, both close or at the league low. There's simply no reason you let him go. Mangold is slightly overpaid for his position, but that doesn't factor in the line calls that he makes, which I think some forget just how important that is, especially with a young QB. 

 

Assuming Winters is on the upswing, the only position I look to upgrade is RG, with someone like Gabe Jackson or Anthony Steen if they fall to our second third rounder. Or, if for some reason Cyril Jackson falls to our first, I think we'd gobble him up quickly; I called Warford being my favorite guard after the senior bowl last year and I think Cyril might be heading that way as well. We have to remember, even though Colon played a full season healthy, that hasn't been the norm and we need an adequate replacement. 

 

Not sure how much faith we have in Iljana or Oday to be a competent tackle, but we need someone on our team that can step in if the unthinkable happens and Dbrick or Howard go down.  But like you said, I don't see us addressing the Oline until the third round at the earliest.

[Jetsfan80]

Who?, in the other thread, you trashed McCarron, Manziel, Vick, Kolb.

 

Chad Henne and Zach Mettenberger in the 3rd round.  That's my vote.

[Lizard King]

Chad Henne and Zach Mettenberger in the 3rd round.  That's my vote.

 

Henne? Puke

[Jetsfan80]

Henne? Puke

 

It's a dire QB market in free agency.  But I'll take the guy who, in 13 starts, threw for 3,200+ yards and completed 60.6 % of his throws playing for the awful Jaguars over the other names out there.

 

If Jason Campbell gets cut by Cleveland I'd support bringing him in over Henne.  Otherwise who else is there.  Schaub? 

[joewillie78]

It's a dire QB market in free agency.  But I'll take the guy who, in 13 starts, threw for 3,200+ yards and completed 60.6 % of his throws playing for the awful Jaguars over the other names out there.

 

If Jason Campbell gets cut by Cleveland I'd support bringing him in over Henne.  Otherwise who else is there.  Schaub? 

Is this an indictment on Smith when we are all generally hoping that they bring in basically, some retreads, some of which will get cut from the two worst teams in football, Jacksonville and Cleveland.

 

And by the way, If PENNINGTON could pass a physical, I would sign him in a heartbeat. Is he any older than when we signed Brunell or Garrard or even Favre? probably not. Idzik should check on Chads health.

[Integrity28]

It's a dire QB market in free agency.  But I'll take the guy who, in 13 starts, threw for 3,200+ yards and completed 60.6 % of his throws playing for the awful Jaguars over the other names out there.

 

If Jason Campbell gets cut by Cleveland I'd support bringing him in over Henne.  Otherwise who else is there.  Schaub? 

 

LOL, I wanted Campbell to be our veteran to let Sanchez sit and learn behind the year we drafted him. Unreal that in 5 years, Campbell is still one of the only viable options to fill the same stop-gap need. 

 

Pukes.

[Jetsfan80]

LOL, I wanted Campbell to be our veteran to let Sanchez sit and learn behind the year we drafted him. Unreal that in 5 years, Campbell is still one of the only viable options to fill the same stop-gap need. 

 

Pukes.

 

Teams just don't let viable veteran QB's end up on the free agent market, it seems.

[Jetsfan80]

Is this an indictment on Smith when we are all generally hoping that they bring in basically, some retreads, some of which will get cut from the two worst teams in football, Jacksonville and Cleveland.

 

No, it's an indictment of a weak free agent QB market.  Just because there isn't much out there doesn't mean we avoid bringing somebody in.  We'll be cutting Sanchez and Matt Simms is a UFA.  You need to have someone capable of stepping in and playing who isn't a rookie. 

 

I like a depth chart of something like  1. Geno, 2. Henne/Campbell, 3. Mettenberger entering '14, or some variation.

[joewillie78]

No, it's an indictment of a weak free agent QB market.  Just because there isn't much out there doesn't mean we avoid bringing somebody in.  We'll be cutting Sanchez and Matt Simms is a UFA.  You need to have someone capable of stepping in and playing who isn't a rookie. 

 

I like a depth chart of something like  1. Geno, 2. Henne/Campbell, 3. Mettenberger entering '14, or some variation.

You've seen mine:

 

1. Vick, McCarron, Smith

2. Manziel, Kolb, Smith

 

With mine, Smith is always on the clipboard.

[bitonti]

I don't see how they don't resign Howard, it would be beyond baffling. He's just entering his prime at 26 years old, only allowed two sacks and I believe only registered something like two holding penalties, both close or at the league low. There's simply no reason you let him go. 

 

Agree but this team hasn't paid anyone since Idzik arrived. Howard would want starting tackle money not vet min. It's far from certain. 

[peebag]

And by the way, If PENNINGTON could pass a physical, I would sign him in a heartbeat. Is he any older than when we signed Brunell or Garrard or even Favre? probably not. Idzik should check on Chads health.

 

Right here is where you lost all crediblity -

[peebag]

Agree but this team hasn't paid anyone since Idzik arrived. Howard would want starting tackle money not vet min. It's far from certain. 

 

I don't get where you think the Jets can shove a warm body out on the OL and expect any qb to be successful.  They have to bring at least 2 OL prospects in this offseason else it's a mirror image of 2013.

[joewillie78]

Right here is where you lost all crediblity -

I wasnt aware that I had any to begin with.

[Jetsfan80]

You've seen mine:

 

1. Vick, McCarron, Smith

2. Manziel, Kolb, Smith

 

With mine, Smith is always on the clipboard.

 

Just because you list them there doesn't "make it so".

 

Vick has been a mediocre QB for several years now.  And he carries a higher injury risk than the other FA QB's. 

 

McCarron was absolutely exposed in his Bowl game loss last week.  He was already a 2nd-3rd round type, but his completely inability to handle any kind of a pass rush drops him to a 4th-5th round guy.  He's been blessed with an incredibly talented team around him, and offers minimal upside.  Greg McElroy version 2.0.

 

Johnny Manziel would cost us moving up in the 1st, while Mettenberger likely costs us a 3rd, and ISN'T a 5-8 shrimp. 

 

I don't know where Kolb comes from in all of this.  He has no value.  At least Campbell and Henne have had minimal success in the NFL, playing pretty well for multiple teams and in multiple systems.  Kolb has had no success.  We need a veteran with a track record, even if it's a mediocre one.