Keenan. Allen

[Bleedin Green]

Even if the Jets scouts are the worst in the history of all professional sports, the idea of basing any sort of evaluation on one specific guy they didn't take who turned out to be good is absurd, at least once you leave the very top of the draft.  You know, there's actually a lot more players out there who any single team doesn't draft than those that they do.  You could make this same argument for every team in the league every year, no matter how great of a draft they have.

I'm also not sure what anyone thinks is being proven by a repeated number of examples that have been cited from drafts (and trades??) which have seen two GMs and HCs each get fired since then.

[pedro55]

I think a lot of people expect teams to have 'experts' but the truth is, like in many professions, there are far more people than any of us would like that aren't exactly qualified for the job and never were an 'expert' at it to begin with.  Nepotism, friendships or loved by a Executive or owner and aren't that impressive when it comes to experience or skills.    That's life.  

 

 Just look at all the coaching trees over the years where most of the new generation kind of sucked compared to their mentor.   As great as BB is, how many of his assistants have gone on to be that good as HC?  Not many.   Look at Mangini and Mcdaniels. Those guys weren't exactly deserving of HC positions but got jobs because of their pedigree and because they knew the right people to get the right jobs at a young age.  Sometimes it works out, many times it doesn't.   And scouting is far worse because most people never even know who those guys are in the first place.   The HC & GM gets the blame, not the scouts.   

 

 

 But I always find it funny when people just assume because somebody works somewhere in the NFL, they have to be experts.   Many times you get Tim Tebow traded to the Jets or Jamarcus Russel  being drafted and paid a huge guaranteed contract kind of situations.   No experts needed for those situations.    But they happen more often than not because some scouts and coaches shouldn't even have their jobs and some owners and GMs want publicity or fall in love with highlights.   That's just a fact of life and it's why most sports organizations kind of suck.  You can name a handful who seem to be run well and make the right decisions over the years.  They don't always make the right choices, don't always win, but they seem to know what they are doing.   And then you have teams like the Browns and Raiders who always seem to make the wrong moves year after year.  And they've been doing it for a long time.   

[Lupz27]

You said our scouts were terrible, I countered with they found Sheldon, thus showing that they aren't void of ability. If you were to change your initial argument to them not placing emphasis on skill position players, that's a different story. Do you know their bigboard? How are you sure Allen wasn't rated highly, but Idzik decided he wanted to go with an OG Winters instead?  You are playing arm-chair GM and of course every move you make is going to be the correct one. It's lazy. 

 

He is talking on the offensive side of  the ball, and get his point, but your right, we found guys like D Davis in the 3rd, Mo Wilk in the late 1st, took Sheldon over 2 DT's ranked higher than him on just about everyone else's board, A Allen isn't a world beater, but he is good depth that was found in the 6th round.  You can't reaaly judge the Jets on their 2009, and 2010 drafts they pretty much traded all of their picks for Sanchez, Greene, Holmes, Cromartie, and McKnight, 7 total picks in those 2 drafts, and K Wilson is the only player still with the team that is worth a lick, and in fairness the Jets made a choice to try, and pry open the small window that team had left to win a Super Bowl.  In 2012, and 2013 it blew up in their face, but if Sanchez turned out to be a franchise QB nobody would care that the other 6 picks were useless scrubs (Wilson excluded, not as good as a 1st round CB, but he is good if you take away the label of being a 1st rounder), and the Jets would have been able to compete even more than they have the last 3 years while trying to rebuild if Sanchez was the goods.

[neckdemon]

I totally agree, however, he's not a legit #1 or #2. Richardson is a legit starting DE. Milliner has shown signs but its still too early to call it. 

 

I wasnt bashing Kerley. It was more about BroadwayJoe disagreeing with my point of view. 

 

Kerley is a very valuable player, the best offensive player we we've drafted this decade so far (I still think Geno will be legit). This very statement however shows why the Jets are so bad as a team offensively though. Its stated that you build through the draft....and our best offensive player drafted is Jeremy Kerley...a solid #3 wide receiver. 

 

 

mangold was drafted in 2006, not even 10 years ago

[Lupz27]

Dude, they're f'ing terrible. Dont make it seem like Im trying to clean something up here. They couldnt draft offensively to save their jobs....literally. Jet fans here on this site has put together better mock drafts then what the Jets ultimately drafted offensively by way of these "terrible" ass scouts. 

 

If you're offended, cool. They're terrible. Now lets move on. 

 

The Jets went for it in 2010, and 2011.  They swun, and missed.  They had a grand total of 7 draft picks in 2009, and 2010, of the 7 draft picks 1 thats right 1 was used on the defensive side of the ball, 2010 1st rounder Kyle Wilson, those 2 drafts were Tanny going all, or nothing on Sanchez, nothing else really mattered to him those 2 years, S Greene fit what the Jets wanted to do in 2009, and 2010, and when the O-Line was dominant like it was those 2 years he was a very good player for a 3rd rounder, and for what the Jets were looking for.  J Connor, Vlad Ducasse, M Slausson, were not really skill position players, but they were offensive players, Slausson was a good pick, a 6th rounder who started, and deserved to stay here, but Tanny did everything in his power to try, and pave a road for his failed 2nd round project in Ducasse, and McKnight was a talented kid who just couldn't stay healthy, or handle the vigors of the NFL training regiment that NFL teams expect their players to go through.  IMO those 2 drafts were about 2 players, Sanchez, and Ducasse, and Tanny botched both end of story.  2011, and 2012 the Jets came away with some decent players, and they were still limited in the amount of draft picks they had, Mo Wilk is a top 5 DL in this league, Coples has shown he can be disruptive, and I think his better days are ahead of him, Kerley is a true slot WR threat, who teams had to game plan for this year because he was the only weapon the Jets had throwing the ball, and will thrive even more when/if the Jets get some better talent to develop, or brought in to take the attention away from Kerley, D Davis is a very good starting ILB had in the 3rd round, A Allen is starting to look like a good BU S, and 3rd down Dime package player had in the 6th round, so far the Jets have botched taking Hill over Jeffrey, and in 2011, and 2012 that's really the only issue you can have with the players we drafted IMO, yes we all would have liked it if the Jets put more emphasis on WR's, but they did take 2, and because they still had limited draft picks thats a fair number for 1 position considering you had 50 million locked up in 1 WR.  All of these issues is with the GM, not the scouting department, the GM gave away money to the wrong players at certain positions, and traded away A LOT of draft picks in 4 years giving the scouts not to much wiggle room to work with when suggesting players to draft, and they really don't get a say IMO until the 3rd round anyway, the HC, and GM decide who they really want in the 1st, and 2nd round, the scouts are relied upon from Rd 3 on.

 

I forgot to mention Powell, but in those 2 years they got good value on 2 skill players in Kerley, and Powell, but missed (so far) on 1 in S Hill, and if Jeffrey wasn't around still most wouldn't go to crazy about missing out on him for Hill, and that was a Tannenbaum pick, Rex was furious with trading away a 4th rounder to jump up to get Hill, if he had his way he probaly would have stayed put, and took D Davis, and this is where the GM, and HC make the decisions, but the GM essentialy has final say.

[Lupz27]

An example of the jets ignoring our biggest needs . We need offensive players very bad As good as our defense is you can win without offense

 

 

Your forgetting the Jets had Holmes, Edwards, LT, Cothchery, (who blindsided the Jets by asking out, probably because Tanny tried to make him take a pay cut, and felt disrespected) and Keller for 2010, and heading into the 2011 draft they thought they would have both Holmes, and another WR locked up with Kerley coming on, they drafted Powell to replace LT, and the other WR they ended up getting was Plaxico instead of Edwards, because Edwards hurt his knee, and went on a drunken rampage during the whole lock out, and ruined his career.  In 2012 the Jets realized they needed another WR to replace the void left by Edwards, and swung for the fences on Hill, and so far they missed badly.  Again none of this really matters thou because the QB was just a train wreck in late 2011, and 2012, but there was enough weapons on the 2011 team for that same train wreck QB to break almost every statistacal passing record in NY Jets history.  Maybe if Geno had the 2010 S Holmes, D Keller, LT, and B Edwards to go along with Kerley the Jets season would have turned out different, but the Jets GM screwed all that up by not realizing Holmes was a douche, Edwards was a drunk, and Keller needed to get paid, and he nothing left in the bank to give to him, all while telling his scouts that those positins were taken care of until the 2012 draft.  This year I can't blame Idzik for not reaching for skill position players, he viewed the 2013 season as a throw away rebuild year, and wanted to build from the inside out like Mangini did in 2006, and come 2009 that team was a QB, and WR away from winning a SB, and could have been SB contenders for 10 years if the Jets stayed the course, and didn't trade away their draft picks, and didn't throw good money away on bad players.

 

Here is a cenario the Jets could have done in 2009. Signed J Cambell type QB, or begged Favre to come back, never traded away the draft picks for Sanchez, and took who they really wanted in P Harvin (they tried to trade away their 2010 1st rounder to get back in the 1st anyway to get him), and with the 2nd rounder they still had since they didn't trade it for Sanchez grabbed LeSean McCoy, and then double dipped on WR since besides QB it was their biggest weakness, and grabbed M Wallace in the 3rd round instead of S Greene since they already addressed the RB position in the 2nd.  I am of the believer that both Woody, and Tanny made it a priority to get a rookie franchise QB to pair with Rex, There are people who say Rex wanted to bring in Hue Jackson as OC, and fly to Mississippi, and bring back Favre, but Woody, and Tanny convinced/mandated he keep Schotty (keeping Schotty ended any chance of Favre coming back so there was no reason to even bother trying to convince him), and this is where IMO the whole last 5 years went wrong!

 

We saw what Favre could do with Harvin in Minny, throw Wallace, Keller, McCoy, and Cotchery in, and the Jets probably have more than 1 Lombardi trophy on display at Florham Park!

 

See how easy Hindsight is

[BurnleyJet]

It's not the not Drafting of Allen, it was the Drafting of Hill over Alshon Jeffery.

[Jetsfan80]

It's not the not Drafting of Allen, it was the Drafting of Hill over Alshon Jeffery.

 

It's brutal.  I imagine Rams fans are wondering why they hell they took Brian Quick over Alshon as well.  Sometimes I hate the draft.....

[#27TheDominator]

It's brutal.  I imagine Rams fans are wondering why they hell they took Brian Quick over Alshon as well.  Sometimes I hate the draft.....

 

Stephen HIll > Brian Quick > AJ Jenkins

 

Why are the Jets the only team so stupid?

[joewilly12]

I truly believe the Jets do not understand the concept of the draft.  Picks like Vernon Gholston,D-Rob and Mike Nugent have put this team in the position they are today.

[joewillie78]

I truly believe the Jets do not understand the concept of the draft.  Picks like Vernon Gholston,D-Rob and Mike Nugent have put this team in the position they are today.

The Jets to me at draft time, always seem to want to make a splash, take that UNKNOWN type of talent or take a guy way too early as compared where his value may be in a later round. They did it with guys like Jeff Lageman, Johnny "lam" Jones, Mike Nugent, Gholston, Anthony Becht etc. Always wanting to find that "secret" that everyone missed, and more times than not they strike out. They always seem to shy away from the "SAFE" pick. Now sometimes it works out. I remember when they drafted John Abraham, and I went, WHO? I actually did that with Lageman, also.

 

Even if we go back to the Ultimate disaster, KEN OBRIEN, I raelly went WHO? and where the heck did he play? I at least knew MARINO, knew Pitt, but UC DAVIS? Wow.

[NCJETSFAN]

I truly believe the Jets do not understand the concept of the draft. Picks like Vernon Gholston,D-Rob and Mike Nugent have put this team in the position they are today.

They seem to pick lineman good. But they aren't good on the offense side of the ball . No gm goes into the year as a throw away year and if he's building inside out y did we pick milliner and geno . I just feel we lack the offense side of the ball idea. Look at our coachs the last 10+ years. Groh Edwards Mangini Ryan all defense guys it's an issue cause nowadays u Need a qb and recivers to win !

[Stonehands]

And we would have been criticized if we took him and he did not pan out.  "How can a team with all the holes we have take a flier on a guy who is injured?" would be what everyone said. 

[Jetsfan80]

And we would have been criticized if we took him and he did not pan out.  "How can a team with all the holes we have take a flier on a guy who is injured?" would be what everyone said. 

 

Drafting to fill holes is always a mistake for this reason.  It's what landed us guys like Victor Hobson, Dewayne Robertson, and Mike Nugent.

[Bleedin Green]

And we would have been criticized if we took him and he did not pan out.  "How can a team with all the holes we have take a flier on a guy who is injured?" would be what everyone said. 

 

Forget even the question of panning out long term, as he's looked good enough this year to believe that probably would have happened regardless, but I always find it comical when people want to simply apply a player's success in a season with one team immediately over to another, regardless of any other circumstances.  We're really supposed to believe Allen's production would have come anywhere close to the same if he were playing with Geno as his QB instead of Rivers?  He probably would have put up some middling stat line that would have been fine but far from having anyone nearly as impressed, while there would be a different set of posters around here going on about how the Jets should have taken some interior lineman with the pick after Vlad ended up the Jets' uncontested 16-game starter at LG.

[bitonti]

in my first mock draft, january 2013, I had the Jets selecting Keenan Allen at 9 overall. 

 

 

http://www.draftdaddy.com/MD/draft2013_jan.htm

 

 

it just goes to show you, you can be right and the draft can be wrong. Predicting the draft and evaluating these players are two different activities.

[Matt39]

in my first mock draft, january 2013, I had the Jets selecting Keenan Allen at 9 overall. 

 

 

http://www.draftdaddy.com/MD/draft2013_jan.htm

 

 

it just goes to show you, you can be right and the draft can be wrong. Predicting the draft and evaluating these players are two different activities.

 

Good call.

[Stonehands]

in my first mock draft, january 2013, I had the Jets selecting Keenan Allen at 9 overall. 

 

 

http://www.draftdaddy.com/MD/draft2013_jan.htm

 

 

it just goes to show you, you can be right and the draft can be wrong. Predicting the draft and evaluating these players are two different activities.

 

I like looking back at the people in the thread who were knocking Keenan Allen.

[BroadwayJoe12]

in my first mock draft, january 2013, I had the Jets selecting Keenan Allen at 9 overall. 

 

 

http://www.draftdaddy.com/MD/draft2013_jan.htm

 

 

it just goes to show you, you can be right and the draft can be wrong. Predicting the draft and evaluating these players are two different activities.

 

 

You were definitely on the Allen bandwagon early.  I distinctly remember sitting in the draft thread prior to the third round and you were calling for Allen since we selected Geno and I remember pulling for him once Detroit nabbed Warford.

 

Edit: Seemed a lot of the guys were pulling for Allen, plus gotta love the running gag about drafting OGs: 

[Villain The Foe]

mangold was drafted in 2006, not even 10 years ago

2006 was last decade not this current decade. Kerley was the best offensive draft pick we made this decade, but if you want to go back further then you're right because the last time we drafted an offensive probowler was 8 years ago. That's just terrible. 

[joewilly12]

Keyshawn Johnson was the last offensive playmaker drafted by the Jets

[Bleedin Green]

Keyshawn Johnson was the last offensive playmaker drafted by the Jets

 

That's a tad extreme.  Consider that both Coles and Moss were immediately Pro Bowlers once they got away from this team and it's never-ending list of garbage QBs.  Of course that's not all that much better considering Moss was drafted in 01.  Then again, the only high picks they've used on offensive skill positions since then were Keller and Hill.  That's not meant to be an excuse or defense mind you, simply acknowledging a reality.  Still not sure the relevance most of this has to today though given the multiple changes we've seen to both the front office and coaching staff over that time.

[ZachEY]

in my first mock draft, january 2013, I had the Jets selecting Keenan Allen at 9 overall. 

 

 

http://www.draftdaddy.com/MD/draft2013_jan.htm

 

 

it just goes to show you, you can be right and the draft can be wrong. Predicting the draft and evaluating these players are two different activities.

 

Man, the Colts would have probably loved to have had Sheldon Richardson last weekend.

[neckdemon]

2006 was last decade not this current decade. Kerley was the best offensive draft pick we made this decade, but if you want to go back further then you're right because the last time we drafted an offensive probowler was 8 years ago. That's just terrible. 

 

 

i was just thinking of decade as the past 10 years

[bitonti]

Man, the Colts would have probably loved to have had Sheldon Richardson last weekend.

 

THere are some regretable picks in there for example demontre moore way higher than he actually went

 

but keep in mind, when this mock draft was published, 90% had Geno Smith at 1. 

 

as for Sheldon, great player and better athlete than Keenan Allen... but I wonder if this team would be better with Keenan Allen instead? It's worth considering. 

[Jetsfan80]

as for Sheldon, great player and better athlete than Keenan Allen... but I wonder if this team would be better with Keenan Allen instead? It's worth considering. 

 

Not really.  We know what we have in Sheldon.  We don't know for sure that Keenan would produce without a Phillip Rivers throwing it to him.  Keenan wasn't a consideration at 9 or 13. 

[Matt39]

Not really.  We know what we have in Sheldon.  We don't know for sure that Keenan would produce without a Phillip Rivers throwing it to him.  Keenan wasn't a consideration at 9 or 13. 

 

Folks were wondering if Rivers was still a good QB before Allen showed up this year.

[Jetsfan80]

Folks were wondering if Rivers was still a good QB before Allen showed up this year.

 

I suppose all he needed was a coaching change.  Gates and Mathews had a resurgence too.  And the immortal Danny Woodhead had a career year.

[Il Mostro]

And we would have been criticized if we took him and he did not pan out.  "How can a team with all the holes we have take a flier on a guy who is injured?" would be what everyone said. 

The Chargers showed big balls picking him.  The guy's knee was hamburger before, during and after the combine.  They either had deep, deep insight into his recovery or just got lucky.  31 teams passed on Allen for good reason, and anyone telling you they knew he'd be both physically sound and productive is full of it.  Anyone who actually had him on their 1st round board at the time of the draft is an effin' moron.  This was a high risk, home run pick even for the 3rd round.

[Matt39]

I suppose all he needed was a coaching change.  Gates and Mathews had a resurgence too.  And the immortal Danny Woodhead had a career year.

 

Point being I think we'd know Allen was a stud if Geno were throwing him the ball.

[Jetsfan80]

The Chargers showed big balls picking him.  The guy's knee was hamburger before, during and after the combine.  They either had deep, deep insight into his recovery or just got lucky.  31 teams passed on Allen for good reason, and anyone telling you they knew he'd be both physically sound and productive is full of it.  Anyone who actually had him on their 1st round board at the time of the draft is an effin' moron.  This was a high risk, home run pick even for the 3rd round.

 

If we took Allen at 13, he goes down with a season ending injury in Week 2, and we all complain that we let Sheldon Richardson go to the Steelers.

[Il Mostro]

If we took Allen at 13, he goes down with a season ending injury in Week 2, and we all complain that we let Sheldon Richardson go to the Steelers.

 

That probably would have meant playoffs for the Steelers, and we would still be in awe of Sheldon.

[Jetsfan80]

That probably would have meant playoffs for the Steelers, and we would still be in awe of Sheldon.

 

Exactly.  It's really hard to question taking Richardson yet here some Jets fans are doing it anyways.  As bad as our draft history is we should be glad that our new GM nailed that pick, at least.