Sperm Edwards Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Grant you that none of those guys was on his way here. But Manning was in fact a free agent, Cutler was in fact traded. And Brees was all set to hold out. So there's 3 situations that the Jets were not nearly as serious about as they were with Revis, Assumoaugha, et al. Think a franchise who takes the QB issue seriously makes way more of an effort to get this position better. I'm not seeing it. And again, the Jets took a safety over a 21st century Tarkenton in the draft. He may be a spoiled brat and drunken ahole. So was Namath, Marino, Stabler et al. And we are to believe such choices have NOTHING to do with who the HC is and his close relationship with the idiot owner. Right. Enjoy waiting for Geno Smith trying to "figure it out". This is what I meant about flinging mud against a wall. For you to even bring up Brees as a viable option shows where you're coming from. Cutler was traded for #1 and #3 picks the year Ryan got here, and then needed a new contract. That was also a time when Denver didn't deal with the Jets (except for something insignificant like a 7th rounder for Robertson). Josh McDaniels, the Bill Belichick lapdog, was very much - and quite famously - calling the shots over there (unlike Rex with the Jets). They didn't want to trade Cutler inside the conference, let alone to the Jets to make enemies of Belichick, who he still had a great relationship with. I don't recall you screaming or Cutler at the time. The Jets were still hopeful that Favre would un-retire. Rather than take someone else's castoff, they went to draft their own QB and used a #1 and #2 on Sanchez. It was a colossal blunder, but it's nowhere near the same as saying we ignored the position. Since when is Rex Ryan an expert on free agent or college prospect QBs? That's a GMs job. The head coach can (and should) be in on the conversation, but ultimately it should go to the experts at the position and Ryan isn't one. Your idea of getting the position better is an impatient one. I couldn't stand Sanchez as a QB, but even I could see the team wasn't going to dump him after he showed a glimpse of what they saw in him during the playoffs, and then (on paper) improved the next season. A team that burns a top 5 pick (not to mention forks over a $50M rookie contract) simply doesn't dump that QB after 1-2 years. They then went after the only great QB available, Manning, and he wanted nothing to do with New York. Somehow you view this as a failure on Ryan's part as though Manning was just dying to play in the same city as his brother. It was never happening. I'm at least happy they tried, since there's nothing worse than not trying. After that, Tannenbaum stupidly gave Sanchez that extension, which precluded the team (read: precluded Tannenbaum) from even considering a QB - specifically Wilson - a month later. Instead, he traded away a 4th or 5th round pick to move up even higher in round 2 for Stephen Hill. If you want any more evidence that Ryan didn't run the draft, look no further than that pick. Right after the pick, Ryan actually publicly stated he wouldn't have made that move to trade up for Hill but (in so many words) "We'll see what happens." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Unpossible. Such a thing does not exist on the Internet. Nuh-huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Watching a slew of bad coaches, quarterbacks, and front offices since the wee age of who gives a sh*t, if there is one thing I've learned it is that if you have to go to extraordinary and long-winded lengths to argue why someone is good, that's a problem. Which is the pro-Rex argument? A. He ignored the offense and what ensued was the result Or B. He was involved in the offense and what ensued was the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 He's way more than just competent. His ability to coach D alone makes him more than just competent. Some of his game plans shutting down the best QB's in the game are incredible, his half time adjustments, his ability to beat superior teams on the road in the playoffs, master motivator, ability to develop and get the most out of his guys, finding street FA's on D and making them legit, the way his former players talk about him, the admiration he gets around the league - those are all signs of a great coach. Calling him just competent is way under stating his coaching ability. . . To refer to a man as a "great coach" that person has to have done something to earn that title; as of yet, Rex just has not. Right now he's about where Belichik was in Cleveland-minutes away from getting fired if things didn't change and fast. Right now Rex is a glorified defensive coordinator who is perfectly willing to let someone else run the offense so he can concentrate on "his" guys over on defense. Great? sorry my fellow Florida Jets fan, he just ain't there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Why? He's an elite defensive coach. Few would argue you that. He's proven he can motivate and lead teams on deep playoff runs. Been on the brink twice with one of the worst players in the league at the most important position in all of sports. Career winnning record, great playoff record. He's more than competent. I dont think thats being ridiculous at all. He's not even a good coach? Just competent? Sorry, I dont agree. He's better than just a competent coach. . Better at their job, just for frame of reference: Rex or Santonio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Which is the pro-Rex argument? A. He ignored the offense and what ensued was the result Or B. He was involved in the offense and what ensued was the result. It doesn't matter, and that is the beauty of plausible deniability, because: A: It's not his fault. He's a defensive guy. B. Yes but he wasn't given the proper personal. Ipso facto not his fault. However, in the grand scheme of argumentative fallacy, Option B is optimal, because then you can also say that he at least tried and we should be thankful to have a guy that is good on one side of the ball and is trying so very hard to learn the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 He's way more than just competent. His ability to coach D alone makes him more than just competent. Some of his game plans shutting down the best QB's in the game are incredible, his half time adjustments, his ability to beat superior teams on the road in the playoffs, master motivator, ability to develop and get the most out of his guys, finding street FA's on D and making them legit, the way his former players talk about him, the admiration he gets around the league - those are all signs of a great coach. Calling him just competent is way under stating his coaching ability. . . You're mis-quoting me. I said he's decent enough to win with competent coaching and players on offense. I think there are a bunch of coaches who share this trait (or the same but opposite for those who are more offense-minded to begin with). He is not a great head coach, though. There are very few who are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Which is the pro-Rex argument? A. He ignored the offense and what ensued was the result Or B. He was involved in the offense and what ensued was the result. How about choice C. He was not the GM and had the players at his disposal that the GM provided him with. But you already knew that, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Awaiting stupid/sarcastic response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 He was not the GM Oh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Awaiting stupid/sarcastic response. You were waiting for a stupid/sarcastic remark because you don't believe what you wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Which is the pro-Rex argument? A. He ignored the offense and what ensued was the result Or B. He was involved in the offense and what ensued was the result. C He had Akili Smith at QB for the first 4 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 To refer to a man as a "great coach" that person has to have done something to earn that title; as of yet, Rex just has not. Right now he's about where Belichik was in Cleveland-minutes away from getting fired if things didn't change and fast. Right now Rex is a glorified defensive coordinator who is perfectly willing to let someone else run the offense so he can concentrate on "his" guys over on defense. Great? sorry my fellow Florida Jets fan, he just ain't there yet. Well, thats maybe where we differ. I think he has done something to earn that title. He's a winner despite the worst play in the game at the most important position in all of sports. In a way, he's defying the odds. How many coaches win with such terrible QB play? How great was Pete Carrol without Wilson? BB without Brady? McCarthy couldnt win a game without Rodgers on the field this season but he's great because he won a SB with the best QB in the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 You were waiting for a stupid/sarcastic remark because you don't believe what you wrote. Because that's what you do. That's your thing. It's a deflection-type of response, borne out of personal insecurity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Better at their job, just for frame of reference: Rex or Santonio? Right now? Rex. You're mis-quoting me. I said he's decent enough to win with competent coaching and players on offense. I think there are a bunch of coaches who share this trait (or the same but opposite for those who are more offense-minded to begin with). He is not a great head coach, though. There are very few who are. Gotcha. My bad. Well, nevermind then. lol FWIW - I really like this coaching staff and GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 C He had Akili Smith at QB for the first 4 years The Bengals benched Smith after 15 starts, Rex gave Sanchez 62. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Because that's what you do. That's your thing. It's a deflection-type of response, borne out of personal insecurity. Brevity speaks to confidence. I know you. I know your writing. You don't believe in Rex any more than you did Herm, but you like his underdog persona and you're gambling that Mornhinweg fixes Geno so you can avoid issuing tacit mea culpas in six months. I can respect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Well, thats maybe where we differ. I think he has done something to earn that title. He's a winner despite the worst play in the game at the most important position in all of sports. In a way, he's defying the odds. How many coaches win with such terrible QB play? How great was Pete Carrol without Wilson? BB without Brady? McCarthy couldnt win a game without Rodgers on the field this season but he's great because he won a SB with the best QB in the game? Here's where we do agree; a great QB can turn an average coach into a genius. Ask Mike Shanahan about that when he had Elway,George Seifert has one of the greatest won-loss records in the history of the game. BUT...to say that IF Rex had a great QB then he would be great is still a bridge too far for me, because he hasn't even proven himself to be a head coach yet-a guy who can just as easily coach the offense, defense, and ST's if needed. Parcells could, he did it with Fat Charlie that year that Vinny went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Tom is absolutely dead-on that if we sh*t the bed this season, a lot of people are going to spend a lot of energy walking back a lot of stupid sh*t they've said in the last 18 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 The Bengals benched Smith after 15 starts, Rex gave Sanchez 62. It's not the coach's responsibility to assess and bench players, Tom. Ipso facto, not his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Tom is absolutely dead-on that if we sh*t the bed this season, a lot of people are going to spend a lot of energy walking back a lot of stupid sh*t they've said in the last 18 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 The Bengals benched Smith after 15 starts, Rex gave Sanchez 62. Rex went to the AFC championship game with Sanchez.. there's not a coach in football that would've benched a rookie top 5 pick that year with Clemens as the only other option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Rex went to the AFC championship game with Sanchez.. there's not a coach in football that would've benched a rookie top 5 pick that year with Clemens as the only other option. And he got a tattoo of him after he stunk for 2 years and missed the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Tom is absolutely dead-on that if we sh*t the bed this season, a lot of people are going to spend a lot of energy walking back a lot of stupid sh*t they've said in the last 18 months. Hardly, but I do know Tom will be celebrating if the Jets sh*t the bid.. Completely oblivious of course to the fact that his guy extended Rex, didn't do enough to improve the team and is banking on his QB (Geno) taking the next step. I'm willing to bet that if the Jets sh*t the bed, it will be because of Idzik's QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 And he got a tattoo of him after he stunk for 2 years and missed the playoffs. I don't think the tattoo thing is that funny. You should probably move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 And he got a tattoo of him after he stunk for 2 years and missed the playoffs. I don't think anyone has ripped on Rex for that as much as me... Rex is a buffoon and has a myriad of faults.. as does every other HC out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I don't think the tattoo thing is that funny. You should probably move on. It's not meant to be a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I don't think anyone has ripped on Rex for that as much as me... Rex is a buffoon and has a myriad of faults.. as does every other HC out there Ok. Fine. You're free to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Here's where we do agree; a great QB can turn an average coach into a genius. Ask Mike Shanahan about that when he had Elway,George Seifert has one of the greatest won-loss records in the history of the game. BUT...to say that IF Rex had a great QB then he would be great is still a bridge too far for me, because he hasn't even proven himself to be a head coach yet-a guy who can just as easily coach the offense, defense, and ST's if needed. Parcells could, he did it with Fat Charlie that year that Vinny went down. Very few coaches in the history of the game can coach up all 3 phases equally. Like maybe a handful if that and they probably learned over time as most HC's come up the ranks on one side of the ball. This Rex needs to know everything is bullsh*t. Nobody does. Thats why they have coordinators. McCarthy, Peyton both SB winning Head Coaches who outsource their Defense. I mean seriously, wtf is Mike McCarthy going to teach Don Capers about defense? What was Rex going to teach Westhoff about ST's? You dont expect a HC to be an expert in all 3 phases because it doesnt exist. You expect him to know his craft at an elite level and can coach up the rest of team as the HC through his coordinators and position coaches. Tom is absolutely dead-on that if we sh*t the bed this season, a lot of people are going to spend a lot of energy walking back a lot of stupid sh*t they've said in the last 18 months. Just like all the guys who said Rex would be fired after last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Tom is absolutely dead-on that if we sh*t the bed this season, a lot of people are going to spend a lot of energy walking back a lot of stupid sh*t they've said in the last 18 months. Good to see it's been downgraded to an if. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Hardly, but I do know Tom will be celebrating if the Jets sh*t the bid.. Completely oblivious of course to the fact that his guy extended Rex, didn't do enough to improve the team and is banking on his QB (Geno) taking the next step. I'm willing to bet that if the Jets sh*t the bed, it will be because of Idzik's QB Of course it is. Thats the most ridiculous part about this whole debate. Everyone knows its all on the QB and that teams who typically get QB play at the Jets level pick #1 overall, year after year. Yet some how thats not the case with the Jets, in fact, all but 1 year they've been in the playoff hunt. Maybe its all the incredible talent the last GM added to the team besides QB? Or is it something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 It doesn't matter, and that is the beauty of plausible deniability Now HessStation owes you $99. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Now HessStation owes you $99. Refresh my memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Refresh my memory. You caught up after I stopped setting my lineup, Kelvin Benjamin went in the first, and OH COME ON. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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