ESPN POLL OF NFL EXECS NAMES GENO SMITH "WORST" STARTING QB IN NFL.

[use2Jet]

Is there any actual proof of this, or is it just the common thing to say?

 

Just because the Jets got beat, doesn't mean it occurred because the team lost respect for him.

 

Especially when there is literally no actual evidence that this happened.

 

 

Umm, when your captain and your RT are literally fighting on the field, and you don't even address it or know there is a rift brewing, I think its pretty safe to say that you lost the locker room. But when you observe what you chose to see, rather than reality, you can miss the obvious things in life, sad.

[jgb]

I think we're talking about what "losing the locker room means".

 

To me, it means the team gives up on the coach.  I do not think anything we've read indicates that the team gave up.

 

Certainly, there were a couple of malcontents and problems, and that's far from something to be celebrated, but it's also not the reason for the current, or recent state of the team.

 

it's a good point, maybe it's a definitional thing. let's not forget that ladanian tomlinson thought this way also:

 

LaDainian Tomlinson gave a candid interview to Showtime's Inside the NFL in which he claimed the New York Jets' locker-room turmoil was the worst he'd ever encountered. The future Hall-of-Fame running back detailed how the relationship between receiver Santonio Holmes and quarterback Mark Sanchez was particularly rocky and how head coach Rex Ryan's weekly bravado actually hurt the team.

[ZachEY]

Dude, I am a moron? lol, so offended when you who cannot comprehend what is written says, I am going to have to leave my family out of shame and the horror.

 

I have been on this board reading for over a year, you and your sidekick BG post no original thoughts or opinions, but rather bash others posts that you don't agree with, along with the often Sanchez sux post, you two are like twins.

 

The rest of your post is narcissistic blabbering.

 

Everyone knows you are ASOMHOFH or whatever (aka assmop), so you can cut the nonsense about reading for a year.

 

Again, please explain the difference between what you said and being a big fan.

 

Also, there's literally nothing in my post that is narcissistic, that's another word, like "irony", that you should probably learn the meaning of before using.

[use2Jet]

Everyone knows you are ASOMHOFH or whatever (aka assmop), so you can cut the nonsense about reading for a year.

 

Again, please explain the difference between what you said and being a big fan.

 

Also, there's literally nothing in my post that is narcissistic, that's another word, like "irony", that you should probably learn the meaning of before using.

 

Yawn, I am not aso or whoever the hell esle you want me to be.

 

Explaining things to you is not really possible, sorry. But don't beat yourself up over it, its likely not your fault.

[ZachEY]

Yeah, the rest of the NFL really thought so highly of those 8 TD's that he did not get signed the next season..... You just can't make this stuff up. The guy was unable to get any separation whatsoever, and played when they were inside the 10. If you think he was even 1/4 of what Edwards was the year before, you are more clueless than I give you credit for, congrats.

 

Interesting, because, the next season he did play in Pittsburgh, and regardless, he was old, and declining, but the contribution he made to the Jets is undeniable, as it is in black and white on his stat sheet.

 

Oh, and if you have a problem with Burress, again, your issue is with the GM.  And, using your own argument, why exactly was there no rush to sign the great Braylon Edwards?  Why is he also out of the league?

[ZachEY]

Yawn, I am not aso or whoever the hell esle you want me to be.

 

Explaining things to you is not really possible, sorry. But don't beat yourself up over it, its likely not your fault.

 

Then give it a whirl for Faba, SouthernJet, and/or JiF, all of whom seem to read it exactly the same way.

 

Truth is, your analysis of the coach is based solely on the fact that we were winning for two years, and then we stopped, and so, that was when you realized Rex sucked.

[Bleedin Green]

are we building a case here or discussing what we know and what we read about the team in the media? i wasn't there--sorry if the santonio holmes situation, the derrik mason situation, sanchez screaming at the GM, and the many articles about a rift between the offensive and defensive players (seemingly an annual occurence) isn't enough evidence of an issue. but there is certainly evidence that it happened. if you chose to ignore it or discount it, that's up to you. no one outside of the organization will likely ever know the "real" story, but to say there is "no evidence" is wrong--what you are really saying is that you do not  believe that evidence is accurate. and you are certainly entitled to that opinion.

 

I think the problem, and I will freely admit this comes with both sides of the argument, is the ridiculous extremes it often gets taken to.  No one is going to doubt that there may have been issues with individual players, but there is a pretty massive jump between saying there was some a$$hole on the team who they sent packing after half of a season (Mason) and losing the entire locker room.  Similarly with the Holmes situation, that's a deserved black mark against Rex for not doing something and letting it get to the point that it did, particularly on the field, but once again, the fact that other offensive players stepped up and did something about it would seem to contradict the idea of him losing absolutely everyone.  That's not to mention the claims about it happening "every year", which is just ridiculous.  I'm not even trying to rush to Rex's defense here, because I'm on record as saying that there's a long list of things he can deservedly be trashed for, and those individual incidents can certainly make the list, but that doesn't mean everyone is going to accept every over-stated exaggeration that's thrown out there either.

 

And while I know this didn't come from you, trying to trash him for the whole Braylon / Plaxico switch could not be a more obvious example of that.  Not only did Braylon want excessively more money from the Jets than he eventually got or Plax got, he was a miserable failure that season (and the rest of his career) and was completely outperformed by Plax.  Meanwhile, we're looking at something that isn't even Rex's job, and yet supposed to use the acquisition of a cheaper, more productive player as a point of criticism?

[T0mShane]

We're back to Rex bearing no responsibility for any loss during his tenure. Gotta love over-correction.

[use2Jet]

Then give it a whirl for Faba, SouthernJet, and/or JiF, all of whom seem to read it exactly the same way.

 

Truth is, your analysis of the coach is based solely on the fact that we were winning for two years, and then we stopped, and so, that was when you realized Rex sucked.

 

LOL, OK, thanks sport. You are boring, seriously. And when you start personal attacks, like calling me a moron for not agreeing with my opinion, when I never said anything about you personally, it also speaks volumes about you, I'm done debating with you. Go find someone else's posts to disagree with, K? Thanks.

[ZachEY]

it's a good point, maybe it's a definitional thing. let's not forget that ladanian tomlinson thought this way also:

 

LaDainian Tomlinson gave a candid interview to Showtime's Inside the NFL in which he claimed the New York Jets' locker-room turmoil was the worst he'd ever encountered. The future Hall-of-Fame running back detailed how the relationship between receiver Santonio Holmes and quarterback Mark Sanchez was particularly rocky and how head coach Rex Ryan's weekly bravado actually hurt the team.

 

This I can agree with.

 

Obviously what went on in 2011 was not a good thing.  Obviously there is turmoil, but outside of Holmes in the final game of the season, I don't think anyone actually "gave up."  And, that's what concerns me most and what I would call "losing the locker room."  And honestly, maybe my bias is that I never got that upset about it at the time, because Santonio (and the rest of the offense) seemed to feel exactly like I did about Sanchez.

 

As for Rex, I think the unfortunate truth is that each week, when he got up there and said, Mark Sanchez gives us the best chance to win, that was the truth.  And again, that to me is more on Tannenbaum than anyone else.

[ZachEY]

LOL, OK, thanks sport. You are boring, seriously. And when you start personal attacks, like calling me a moron for not agreeing with my opinion, when I never said anything about you personally, it also speaks volumes about you, I'm done debating with you. Go find someone else's posts to disagree with, K? Thanks.

 

I guess you forgot when you said I was incapable of reading...

[RutgersJetFan]

Is there any actual proof of this, or is it just the common thing to say?

 

Just because the Jets got beat, doesn't mean it occurred because the team lost respect for him.

 

Did you read Collision Low Crossers?

[ZachEY]

We're back to Rex bearing no responsibility for any loss during his tenure. Gotta love over-correction.

 

No, we're saying this was a really bad football team.  Something people don't want to admit, and that is the reason they did not perform well.  Easy to say it's because of Rex, because that offers a quick fix.  When in reality, what this team needed, and what has begun to happen, is a rebuild based on incremental growth.

[ZachEY]

Did you read Collision Low Crossers?

 

See later posts, I'm not saying there weren't problems, I'm saying the team lost because they were bad, not because the locker room quit.

[jgb]

I think the problem, and I will freely admit this comes with both sides of the argument, is the ridiculous extremes it often gets taken to.  No one is going to doubt that there may have been issues with individual players, but there is a pretty massive jump between saying there was some a$$hole on the team who they sent packing after half of a season (Mason) and losing the entire locker room.  Similarly with the Holmes situation, that's a deserved black mark against Rex for not doing something and letting it get to the point that it did, particularly on the field, but once again, the fact that other offensive players stepped up and did something about it would seem to contradict the idea of him losing absolutely everyone.  That's not to mention the claims about it happening "every year", which is just ridiculous.  I'm not even trying to rush to Rex's defense here, because I'm on record as saying that there's a long list of things he can deservedly be trashed for, and those individual incidents can certainly make the list, but that doesn't mean everyone is going to accept every over-stated exaggeration that's thrown out there either.

 

And while I know this didn't come from you, trying to trash him for the whole Braylon / Plaxico switch could not be a more obvious example of that.  Not only did Braylon want excessively more money from the Jets than he eventually got or Plax got, he was a miserable failure that season (and the rest of his career) and was completely outperformed by Plax.  Meanwhile, we're looking at something that isn't even Rex's job, and yet supposed to use the acquisition of a cheaper, more productive player as a point of criticism?

 

 

This I can agree with.

 

Obviously what went on in 2011 was not a good thing.  Obviously there is turmoil, but outside of Holmes in the final game of the season, I don't think anyone actually "gave up."  And, that's what concerns me most and what I would call "losing the locker room."  And honestly, maybe my bias is that I never got that upset about it at the time, because Santonio (and the rest of the offense) seemed to feel exactly like I did about Sanchez.

 

As for Rex, I think the unfortunate truth is that each week, when he got up there and said, Mark Sanchez gives us the best chance to win, that was the truth.  And again, that to me is more on Tannenbaum than anyone else.

 

first, let me say so rarely do i get a chance to respond to two well-reasoned and balanced posts at the same time here. so congrats for that.

 

to BG: i don't consider "losing a locker room" to mean losing literally every player. but maybe it is harder to define than i thought. might be like the Supreme Court's definition of pornography: "it can't necessarily be easily defined in words, but we know it when we see it." the rancor, the on the field fights, the players on the defense making comments to the media  (usually anonymous, take that for what it is, remember the angry "if you are a man put your name to it" response by some jets players?) about how they are carrying the team and the offense needs to do its part, the mason and holmes situations, all leads me to believe that the locker room has lost any semblence of professionalism and dealing with issues in house. that is what "losing a locker room" means to me because the players don't trust the authority figure (rex, or the captains) to resolve these issues in a satisfactory way so they vent externally.

 

to geyno: pretty much the same response as to BG, for me the whole team doesn't have to completely "give up" to have "lost the locker room" but when these kind of issues (and several of them, not just one isolated incident) make it to the papers during the season and not afterward in an interview with a departed player like with Ladanian, i think that is a loss of the locker room in the sense that rex failed to keep the team cohesive. if it was just the ladanian comment, after he retired, i would be fine with it. every locker room has disputes. but when those disputes, especially many more than just one, become public during the season, that is a locker room that isn't in control. and yes, I put that on the HC. which is especially damning in rex's case because his big positive quality is supposedly his ability to connect with players and bring out their best--of which I concede there is ample evidence of that on one side of the ball.

[Kleckineau]

Umm, they were a .500 team or worse the last 3 years, 8-8, 6-10, 8-8

 

Was this meant to be sarcastic?

No, I was actually going for the mordant style comment.

[#27TheDominator]

I think the losing the locker stuff is a bit overblown.  It is an issue, but when you consider how hard the press got after them, I am surprised there isn't more.  I heard more sh*t about Coughlin when Shockey, Tiki and Strahan were around than Rex.   Holmes is a douchebag, but they didn't have much choice.  He seems to have done his best dumping tose guys ASAP, though Holmes stuck around longer due to the contract.  Tomlinson squawked a bit in SD too and I think that was part of the reason they were happy enough to let him walk.

 

As for the offense vs. defense stuff I am shocked there wasn't more of it.  The press literally hammered that angle and I never saw much more than a few "they have to pull their weight" quotes.  Speculation was that the worst stuff came from Pettine. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Actually, any HC who was duped into thinking Sanchez was going to carry the team in 11, was clearly clueless to me. Rex decided to replace Edwards and Cotchery for Mason and Plaxico, who were both worthless, so that they could save cap money to try to go after an all world CB who turned out to be all turd. Then making Holmes a captain, Sanchez a captain, letting the crap that went on in 11 made it crystal clear to anyone who was willing to observe reality.

 

false

 

At the time Plaxico was signed, Edwards was still after #1 (or high #2) type money.  Cotchery was supposedly yammering behind the scenes since before the lockout that if he wasn't starting that he wanted out.  So the Jets drafted Kerley, and then they still waited until they picked up Mason before granting Cotchery his wish. Cotchery then signed on with Pittsburgh as their #4 WR.

 

Your retelling of history is a total fabrication with no basis, even in rumors that flew around at the time.

 

My biggest single gripe with Ryan was his nonstop belief in Sanchez, but truthfully we'll never truly know how much of that was real belief and how much was for show. Sanchez was the kid that the GM went all-in on, and who was a celebrity QB that the team's owner publicly said he'd never again not-have (after seeing all the Favre attention).  Plus Sanchez was a mopey emo invertebrate, who passed on blame to others for games he blew, while downplaying his own garbage performance, and probably wouldn't respond to tough love anyway.  A stupid man would publicly say he has no belief in the QB his two bosses bet on, and would bench said player for an absolute non-option like Clemens, Brunell, Tebow, or McElroy. Benching Sanchez would be as much a message to the guys who have the power to fire him as much as to Sanchez.  

 

I'm not suggesting that behind the scenes Ryan was the voice of reason whose brilliance fell upon the deaf ears of Tannenbaum and Johnson. Far from it.  I think he genuinely liked the kid personally and - like the players themselves who also saw Sanchez day in & day out - was teased by some good/great throws here and there, not to mention the narrative that he took the team to the playoffs twice.

 

The captain thing wasn't brilliance, but the fans on message boards make more of it than it really was. Team captains have no real authority. He used it in an effort to get these two to grow up, which to me suggests he thinks they needed it.  Truth is, Sanchez probably did take to that vote of confidence a bit.  He started holding QB/receiver meetings mid-season and other things like that.  Holmes, of course, felt that was beneath him and as I recall he blew it off.  Following that season, Ryan announced there would be no team captains.

[Bleedin Green]

Dude, I am a moron? lol, so offended when you who cannot comprehend what is written says, I am going to have to leave my family out of shame and the horror.

 

I have been on this board reading for over a year, you and your sidekick BG post no original thoughts or opinions, but rather bash others posts that you don't agree with, along with the often Sanchez sux post, you two are like twins.

 

The rest of your post is narcissistic blabbering.

 

I recently made a point of no longer responding to you, because you have shown either a complete inability or absolute refusal to ever have an actual discussion.  But since you felt the need to throw your most recent tantrum in my direction for no apparent reason, I'll take a moment for you.  Do you realize that every post you've made has been about nothing but Rex (with some gems like this one mixed in)?  You even respond to posts that have absolutely nothing to do with him and yet it's still the only thing you are able to talk about.  You're a broken record, and it started from your very first post when you were supposedly done with this team.

 

To help get my point across to you, I'll try to be more in line with the intelligence level that persists throughout your posts:  try just once to actually have an intelligent debate, in the unlikely event you're capable of such a thing, and maybe you won't get treated like the idiotically useless **** you've presented yourself as in every single post on this board.  There you go, it's not only an original thought for you, but one you might actually be capable of grasping.  You're welcome.

[RutgersJetFan]

See later posts, I'm not saying there weren't problems, I'm saying the team lost because they were bad, not because the locker room quit.

You may want to read the book.

[Bleedin Green]

We're back to Rex bearing no responsibility for any loss during his tenure. Gotta love over-correction.

 

I'm guessing you're aware of the irony in this post, right?

[Bleedin Green]

first, let me say so rarely do i get a chance to respond to two well-reasoned and balanced posts at the same time here. so congrats for that.

 

to BG: i don't consider "losing a locker room" to mean losing literally every player. but maybe it is harder to define than i thought. might be like the Supreme Court's definition of pornography: "it can't necessarily be easily defined in words, but we know it when we see it." the rancor, the on the field fights, the players on the defense making comments to the media  (usually anonymous, take that for what it is, remember the angry "if you are a man put your name to it" response by some jets players?) about how they are carrying the team and the offense needs to do its part, the mason and holmes situations, all leads me to believe that the locker room has lost any semblence of professionalism and dealing with issues in house. that is what "losing a locker room" means to me because the players don't trust the authority figure (rex, or the captains) to resolve these issues in a satisfactory way so they vent externally.

 

Fair enough, and let me say I get a lot of the blasting of Rex.  I was on record as being fine with Rex being fired after last season, but also ok with them giving him one last chance.  I'll freely admit right now that if the Jets don't get their sh*t together this year, you'll absolutely see me right there amongst those calling for his head.  I guess I just recently have ended up being somewhat "defending" him because of how extreme some of the arguments against him have gotten.  Like I said, I freely admit Rex deserves to catch sh*t for some of those locker room issues, especially the Holmes mess, so I guess like you're saying, it's just a matter of how exactly you want to define what that is called.  The reason that doesn't concern me nearly as much as it once did, is I do feel like there seemed to be a massive improvement in those areas last year.  I can get why some may think it's "too little, too late" with that kind of stuff, but I guess part of it is while I may not be as big of a fan as I once was, I still don't think he's nearly as bad as some try to paint him as, and still worlds better than his predecessors as the Jets' HC (although that's not much of a standard, I'll give you that).  I also wasn't that big of a fan of a lot of the other "top" head coaching candidates out there this year either, for whatever that is worth.  I think I've shown enough history to be more than happy to crap all over Jets' players and coaches, I just haven't gotten there with Rex yet, and I hope the Jets are successful enough that I don't have to, but it doesn't mean I won't.

[Sperm Edwards]

first, let me say so rarely do i get a chance to respond to two well-reasoned and balanced posts at the same time here. so congrats for that.

 

 

 

Try responding to 2 of mine at the same time.

[artemusclyde]

So I'm curious, do you think changing your argument again makes you somehow look less ridiculous?  I didn't ignore his time with the Cowboys, which is now over 20 years past.  I was directly responding to your nonsensical ramblings about their respective head coaching careers, which has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on any of the arguments you attempted to make regarding who is or is not a so-called "respected coordinator".

 

Funny that despite this new little fit of yours, I've seen no efforts from you to acknowledge Mornhinweg's run as OC with the 49ers, which occurred much more recently than Turner's with the Cowboys.  Not to mention your analysis of the Eagles' situation and Reid has been full of flat-out blatant lies.  The best part is the fact that your two different bullsh*t arguments once again contradict each other, which should surprise no one.  On one hand you're attempting to claim that Reid "refused to hire" Mornhinweg, when Reid himself is on record as saying as he wanted to get back involved with play-calling, which he was no longer doing in Philly, and therefore MM was not interested in the job.  This little piece of news also flies directly in the face of your earlier nonsensically fabricated arguments that attempted to remove any and all credit from Mornhinweg during his time as Philly OC.  It's actually impossible for both of your statements regarding Reid and Mornhinweg to be true, but the evidence actually suggests that neither of them are.

 

As far as Foles goes, I can't help you if you see no difference between a backup player improving between his rookie and second years, and a starter improving between his 9th and 10th years.  If you can't grasp that, then this pretty much cements your complete lack of understanding of football.  However, even if we simply ignore that rather significant difference, it still comes back to the fact that if applying that same conclusion to both of those respective coaches doesn't disprove my argument, it disproves yours.  I've never once said that Turner was some clueless idiot who can't coach, I simply pointed out that your rants about Mornhinweg were completely baseless and ultimately incorrect, and that every argument you desperately tried to use against Mornhinweg to justify your slanted views could just as easily be applied to Turner.  The truth is that they are both well-respected offensive coordinators with long track records of success in that role, and your desperate attempts to try to claim otherwise for one of them is without any merit whatsoever and an attempt to simply justify some other completely unrelated personal opinion of yours about some player.

 

Once again 5-27, and also, your right Reid wanted play calling back and I wonder why. Maybe because Morhinweg isn't the genius you make him about to be? Also, really San Fran, he had freaking Steve Young. And please, Nick Foles turned into a completely different kind of qb under Kelly, in case you didn't watch him he was posting unreal numbers. Also, even Vick improved under Kelly. Maybe just maybe, Morhinweg isn't as great as you think he is, and I can make a pretty good prediction that if he keeps hanging on to Geno, he won't be around for long.

[JustInFudge]

Actually, any HC who was duped into thinking Sanchez was going to carry the team in 11, was clearly clueless to me. Rex decided to replace Edwards and Cotchery for Mason and Plaxico, who were both worthless, so that they could save cap money to try to go after an all world CB who turned out to be all turd. Then making Holmes a captain, Sanchez a captain, letting the crap that went on in 11 made it crystal clear to anyone who was willing to observe reality.

You mean the year he set the record for most TDs by a single player in Jets history?

[jgb]

Try responding to 2 of mine at the same time.

 

if those novels came with an executive summary, i would.

[SouthernJet]

if those novels came with an executive summary, i would.

Ciffs Notes version

[jgb]

Fair enough, and let me say I get a lot of the blasting of Rex.  I was on record as being fine with Rex being fired after last season, but also ok with them giving him one last chance.  I'll freely admit right now that if the Jets don't get their sh*t together this year, you'll absolutely see me right there amongst those calling for his head.  I guess I just recently have ended up being somewhat "defending" him because of how extreme some of the arguments against him have gotten.  Like I said, I freely admit Rex deserves to catch sh*t for some of those locker room issues, especially the Holmes mess, so I guess like you're saying, it's just a matter of how exactly you want to define what that is called.  The reason that doesn't concern me nearly as much as it once did, is I do feel like there seemed to be a massive improvement in those areas last year.  I can get why some may think it's "too little, too late" with that kind of stuff, but I guess part of it is while I may not be as big of a fan as I once was, I still don't think he's nearly as bad as some try to paint him as, and still worlds better than his predecessors as the Jets' HC (although that's not much of a standard, I'll give you that).  I also wasn't that big of a fan of a lot of the other "top" head coaching candidates out there this year either, for whatever that is worth.  I think I've shown enough history to be more than happy to crap all over Jets' players and coaches, I just haven't gotten there with Rex yet, and I hope the Jets are successful enough that I don't have to, but it doesn't mean I won't.

 

usually the truth is somewhere between the extremes. easy to point to rex's failings (which there are some, undoubtedly) while forgetting that he is one of our winningest coach's ever. i am also glad he is here another year but for a different reason: so our "coach of the future" does not have the sh*t stain that will be geno smith at QB this year hanging on his head. next year i think we see new coach and new QB.

[Sperm Edwards]

if those novels came with an executive summary, i would.

 

 

Ciffs Notes version

 

Those are the Cliff Notes versions.  Just ask Mrs. Sperm.

[use2Jet]

I recently made a point of no longer responding to you, because you have shown either a complete inability or absolute refusal to ever have an actual discussion. But since you felt the need to throw your most recent tantrum in my direction for no apparent reason, I'll take a moment for you. Do you realize that every post you've made has been about nothing but Rex (with some gems like this one mixed in)? You even respond to posts that have absolutely nothing to do with him and yet it's still the only thing you are able to talk about. You're a broken record, and it started from your very first post when you were supposedly done with this team.

To help get my point across to you, I'll try to be more in line with the intelligence level that persists throughout your posts: try just once to actually have an intelligent debate, in the unlikely event you're capable of such a thing, and maybe you won't get treated like the idiotically useless **** you've presented yourself as in every single post on this board. There you go, it's not only an original thought for you, but one you might actually be capable of grasping. You're welcome.

Lol, I love how serious u take yourself and how smart u think u r, it's awesome!

Keep on keepin on brother!

[SouthernJet]

Those are the Cliff Notes versions.  Just ask Mrs. Sperm.

LOL, good one

[#27TheDominator]

I guess you forgot when you said I was incapable of reading...

 

 

Did you read Collision Low Crossers?

 

 

You may want to read the book.

 

Don't you pay attention?

[use2Jet]

You mean the year he set the record for most TDs by a single player in Jets history?

I mean the year before he went unsigned in the NFL because he sucked so bad

[use2Jet]

You mean the year he set the record for most TDs by a single player in Jets history?

I mean the year before he went unsigned in the NFL because he sucked so bad

[RutgersJetFan]

Don't you pay attention?