EM31 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Punishment for Sal Alosi was swift and pretty permanent in terms of his NFL career. Are we suggesting that immediate (in all likelihood) lifetime bans from the NFL are appropriate punishments for that level of cheating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Punishment for Sal Alosi was swift and pretty permanent in terms of his NFL career. Are we suggesting that immediate (in all likelihood) lifetime bans from the NFL are appropriate punishments for that level of cheating? No. For that type of punishment the offense would have to rise to the level of, say, intentionally deflating footballs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Moss fumbled occasionally with the Vikings, not at all with the Raiders, and then back to occasionally with the Patriots. From this statistical analysis, I conclude that the Raiders were cheating. Moss rarely (if ever) went over the middle and rarely (if ever) was caught from behind and so I think the number of occasions where a fumble was even possible would be close to zero for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 No Pats fan answered my hypothetical before. If the Pats found a way to fill the balls say with a different kind of gas such that they would pass pre-game inspection but go to much lower pressure during a game, would that be cheating or a creative way to get the outcome they desired within the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 No Pats fan answered my hypothetical before. If the Pats found a way to fill the balls say with a different kind of gas such that they would pass pre-game inspection but go to much lower pressure during a game, would that be cheating or a creative way to get the outcome they desired within the rules? Not a Pats fan, but I would like to comment. If the rules are completely silent on this, it may not be cheating. But the gotcha here is the "completely silent" part. I don't know all the rules, but I am sure there is some kind of general rule that says anything that is not specifically permitted within the rules, especially with regard to equipment, is prohibited. If so, your hypothetical would most definitely be cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFCEastFan Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Moss rarely (if ever) went over the middle and rarely (if ever) was caught from behind and so I think the number of occasions where a fumble was even possible would be close to zero for him. Yes, so you would expect that shifting from a more run-oriented offense to a more pass-oriented offense in which Moss is the WR1 would have a salutary effect on a team's fumble rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Not a Pats fan, but I would like to comment. If the rules are completely silent on this, it may not be cheating. It's not cheating. It's called gaining a competitive advantage, something the Pats do better than the other 31 teams in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 It's not cheating. It's called gaining a competitive advantage, something the Pats do better than the other 31 teams in the league. That is the very definition of cheating, to the extent that the rules are violated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 That is the very definition of cheating, to the extent that the rules are violated. Wake me up when the NFL takes away the Pats 4 Lombardi trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Wake me up when the NFL takes away the Pats 4 Lombardi trophies. I doubt the league takes away even one. But that comes under the heading of business greed, not under rules enforcement or under the punishment of activities that are contrary to fair play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I doubt the league takes away even one. But that comes under the heading of business greed, not under rules enforcement or under the punishment of activities that are contrary to fair play. Fair play? The NFL is win at all costs. If you want fair play go watch some Little League or Pop Warner games on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Fair play? The NFL is win at all costs. If you want fair play go watch some Little League or Pop Warner games on Sunday. Not at the cost of cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Not at the cost of cheating. I'll bet you sleep real well at night knowing the Pats cheated to win 4 Super Bowl championships in the last 15 years and the Jets haven't played in one for 46 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I'll bet you sleep real well at night knowing the Pats cheated to win 4 Super Bowl championships in the last 15 years and the Jets haven't played in one for 46 years. Football does not affect my sleep pattern. Perspective, man. perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I'll bet you sleep real well at night knowing the Pats cheated to win 4 Super Bowl championships in the last 15 years and the Jets haven't played in one for 46 years. Only you would assume that anyone here "loses sleep at night" over the football team we root for. That's demented. Then again, there's you, who spends the majority of his adult life Jets football message boards. Not only is that pathetic, it's downright creepy. ewwwww make sure not to touch anything around here please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFCEastFan Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 It's not cheating. It's called gaining a competitive advantage, something the Pats do better than the other 31 teams in the league. Some infractions deserve to be called "cheating". Some cheating may or may not lead to a competitive advantage. If, for example, the Patriots re-signed Revis for $12 million per year, but paid him an additional $6 million per year under the table that would be cheating, plain and simple, right? And the Patriots would deserve hefty sanctions for that, regardless of whether it led to a competitive advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Only you would assume that anyone here "loses sleep at night" over the football team we root for. That's demented. Then again, there's you, who spends the majority of his adult life Jets football message boards. Not only is that pathetic, it's downright creepy. ewwwww make sure not to touch anything around here please. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 It's not cheating. It's called gaining a competitive advantage, something the Pats do better than the other 31 teams in the league. If the pats let air out of the balls it is cheating. There is nothing else you can call it. The NFLs problem is that they have no records of the balls being checked. The Pats take is that a combination of time,temp, and environment will allow the balls to deflate. The one ball that was 2lbs under is at the max that would you could expect a ball to deflate due to environmental conditions. But since that ball was a "flyer" being the only ball that was 2lbs under and the colts also had possession of that ball, I can't see how that can even be used as evidence as the chain of custody was broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 If the pats let air out of the balls it is cheating. There is nothing else you can call it. The NFLs problem is that they have no records of the balls being checked. The Pats take is that a combination of time,temp, and environment will allow the balls to deflate. The one ball that was 2lbs under is at the max that would you could expect a ball to deflate due to environmental conditions. But since that ball was a "flyer" being the only ball that was 2lbs under and the colts also had possession of that ball, I can't see how that can even be used as evidence as the chain of custody was broken. Ah. So now it seems you are accepting the latest leak, rather than the earlier leak that had 11 of 12 balls 2 psi under/ Any good reason for the change of heart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 No Pats fan answered my hypothetical before. If the Pats found a way to fill the balls say with a different kind of gas such that they would pass pre-game inspection but go to much lower pressure during a game, would that be cheating or a creative way to get the outcome they desired within the rules? You would not need a different gas, all you would need is to heat the air that is going into the ball. Take for instance one of those $10 air compressors at Harbor freight. You let that run for 5 min the thing will overheat, the air that is pumped out would be warm and then subject to a greater loss of pressure during the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Ah. So now it seems you are accepting the latest leak, rather than the earlier leak that had 11 of 12 balls 2 psi under/ Any good reason for the change of heart? Well to be accurate, PFT had only one ball at 2lbs under, the day after Mort's report. If you go on the assumption that since the NFL cuts the check that Rappaport signs and he agrees with the PFT report, my assumption that he has an "in" is reasonable. As I said previously since it was found out that the colts asked the refs pregame to be aware of the colt's concern regarding under inflated balls my led me to think that this was an effort to embarrass the pats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Last time I checked, sports betting is allowed in Nevada and other states. Good luck getting that lawsuit past motion to dismiss. Even the most liberal judge would throw it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 As for rules violations, do you think every offsides and holding is "cheating"? According to Jets fans it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 According to Jets fans it is. Shouldn't u be celebrating the latest victory by cheating at patsfans.com instead of making your 500,000th post on a jets site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Well to be accurate, PFT had only one ball at 2lbs under, the day after Mort's report. If you go on the assumption that since the NFL cuts the check that Rappaport signs and he agrees with the PFT report, my assumption that he has an "in" is reasonable. As I said previously since it was found out that the colts asked the refs pregame to be aware of the colt's concern regarding under inflated balls my led me to think that this was an effort to embarrass the pats. Well personally, rather than picking a leak to support, I'll await the official report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Some infractions deserve to be called "cheating". Some cheating may or may not lead to a competitive advantage. If, for example, the Patriots re-signed Revis for $12 million per year, but paid him an additional $6 million per year under the table that would be cheating, plain and simple, right? And the Patriots would deserve hefty sanctions for that, regardless of whether it led to a competitive advantage. Well having Revis is certainly an advantage anyway. But yes, the Broncos and 49ers both lost 3rd rd picks for infractions due to the salary cap. IMO below Some cheating is to be expected, running backs being down and then stretching the ball out an extra yard, The refs move the ball in those case 10 times a game but once or twice the RB gets away with it. Any rules violation during a game that has a penalty associated with it is not cheating. Holding a DE so he doesn't crush your QB can not ever be considered cheating, even thought it was done knowingly and with forethought. Cheating is rules violations that do not involve the rules used in the way the game is played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Well personally, rather than picking a leak to support, I'll await the official report. But then what will we have to talk about while waiting for the new walking dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Shouldn't u be celebrating the latest victory by cheating at patsfans.com instead of making your 500,000th post on a jets site? Na, it is more fun here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Any rules violation during a game that has a penalty associated with it is not cheating. This sounds like a direct quote from Mr. Fuji. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 But then what will we have to talk about while waiting for the new walking dead? Well, for example, one can lie in wait for someone to claim only 1 ball was 2 psi deflated, then point out we should be waiting for the official report. And BTW, the official report may not be the last word. Reading it may give some indication the league exerted improper influence on the investigators. But before we even have the report there is just too much opportunity for empty speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Na, it is more fun here. Hey I'm a Yankees fan I'm going to go waste my time making 900,000 posts on a Toronto blue jays message board talking about how I'm such a superior sports fan Fun fun fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Hey I'm a Yankees fan I'm going to go waste my time making 900,000 posts on a Toronto blue jays message board talking about how I'm such a superior sports fan Fun fun fun whatever floats your boat, who am I to tell you how you should spend your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 so the convicted cheater with the dodgy reputation is pissed people thought he was cheating again that about sums it up ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 so are pats fans still trying to defend yet another tainted Lombardi? Poor little guys.. Maybe 1 day you'll win a legitimate one like the Jets have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Well, for example, one can lie in wait for someone to claim only 1 ball was 2 psi deflated, then point out we should be waiting for the official report. And BTW, the official report may not be the last word. Reading it may give some indication the league exerted improper influence on the investigators. But before we even have the report there is just too much opportunity for empty speculation. Well I never said we should wait for a official report before discussing it. I however am put off by the total lack of the environmental hypothesis in the ESPN newscasts. I understand that their job is to sell airtime, but you would think that Murdoch owned them in their presentation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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