Scott Dierking Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 First it is not a "crime", no more than Alosi and the jets Special teams sticking out their feet and one that had less direct game impact. Till this day not one person has determined what advantage could be gained from taping from that location. And as I said in the previous post, teams and HC coaches do not have appeal rights. Goddell is law. Now, I also said last week that I believe that Kraft will sue in court to overturn any penalty that comes from evidence that would not hold up in a court. By that I mean any game ball deflation that could not be simulated in a lab, and of course disregarding the ball that the colts had access to. Several things here- What Alosi did was wrong and stupid. He was ultimately fired for it. Thing was, he only did it ONCE. Ever wonder why we can't determine if there was any advantage gained? Is it perhaps that the evidence was destroyed? Can you see a little bit how that smells a little fishy/ Why not present your evidence to the public, and allow them scrutiny? No one ever got that chance. Yeah, Bob Kraft will sue the NFL in court-LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strongman Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 So this is where JI's Spygate Truther crowd ended up. I'm always up for a good conspiracy theory. So how do we explain the Pats' finishing 24th in the league in fumbles in 2013? Were the team's internal psi readings off that year? Before 2007, the Patriots were a run-heavy team that relied on the likes of Corey Dillon and Antowain Smith. They typically finished in the middle of the pack in fumbles. In 2007, they acquired Moss and Welker and became pass-happy. What role does that change in offensive approach play in the change in the team's fumble rate? Lastly, the Patriots most talented running back over the last few years has been Stevan Ridley. Ridley had a fumbling problem though and was constantly benched and doghoused every time he coughed it up. Why did he have this issue despite the softer balls? And why would the Pats bench their best RB instead of just letting even more air out of the balls? "You might notice that 2013 was a bit of a down year for NE ball security. That's partly due to the week 12 game against DEN in insanely frigid conditions. NE had 6 fumbles and Denver had 5. Extremely cold temperatures are associated with high fumble rates--They're about 35% more frequent than usual in the coldest games. But if we threw out that game, NE would have a 60 play-per-fumble rate. Not the best that season, but still better than any other outdoor team's 5-year average." http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/index.php/home/research/general/224-the-patriots-have-great-ball-security Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Really, you say that BB is stubborn, and then you believe him when he says taping was "no advantage"? You expect to have it both ways? Taping from that location was no advantage over taping from anywhere else in the seats along with the 80,000 guys in the stands now with camera phones, that probable offer better resolution . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Several things here- What Alosi did was wrong and stupid. He was ultimately fired for it. Thing was, he only did it ONCE. Ever wonder why we can't determine if there was any advantage gained? Is it perhaps that the evidence was destroyed? Can you see a little bit how that smells a little fishy/ Why not present your evidence to the public, and allow them scrutiny? No one ever got that chance. Yeah, Bob Kraft will sue the NFL in court-LOL never mind that it was destroyed. Right now tell me what competitive advantage is gained from taping the opponents sideline from your sideline vs 25 yards away in the stands. He admitted he was taping the signals and date stamping each call by also taping the clock at the same time. Please what more could he have been doing other than taping signals. Why not? Kraft will sue and Godell will lose his job. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I don't coach football in the NFL. Neither do you. Only coaches could tell us the competitive nature. Obviously, there are some-Otherwise, why have rules? Kraft suing the NFL-this is just a plum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuidoYastrzemski Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Glaser has copies of the tapes. The league showed them to anyone who wanted to see them. With the exception of many shots and close ups of cheerleaders asses and titties,they were described as dull and boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandarinia Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 * Get used to seeing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I think krafty need some campfire songs and acid to chill the **** out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 According to the memo Goodell sent to all teams in July 2007, yes, the Pats violated the rules by still taping from the sidelines. I would like for just one Jets fan, or any fan of the NFL, to explain what would be different from taping from the sidelines versus taping from the end zone or pressbox. Does taping from the sidelines give the Pats some sort of competitive advantage????? Spygate is nothing more than BB's total arrogance and disregard for authority. He thinks he is above everyone else. That's what pissed me off. you can see more from the sidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Glaser has copies of the tapes. The league showed them to anyone who wanted to see them. With the exception of many shots and close ups of cheerleaders asses and titties,they were described as dull and boring. And Glazer said that the "Patriots were blatantly trying to steal coaches signals". Between all the other crap. Glazer does go on to say however, that the tapes show the Pats were blatantly trying to steal signs in their taping. http://larrybrownsports.com/football/spygate-tapes-girls-wild-video/1501 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 First it is not a "crime", no more than Alosi and the jets Special teams sticking out their feet and one that had less direct game impact. Till this day not one person has determined what advantage could be gained from taping from that location. And as I said in the previous post, teams and HC coaches do not have appeal rights. Goddell is law. Only players have rights. Now, I also said last week that I believe that Kraft will sue in court to overturn any penalty that comes from evidence that would not hold up in a court. By that I mean any game ball deflation that could not be simulated in a lab, and of course disregarding the ball that the colts had access to. The other 31 owners have to thoroughly disgusted with Kraft and his dirtbag organization by this point. If Roger continues to protect his good buddy then this may be the straw that causes his ouster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 And Glazer said that the "Patriots were blatantly trying to steal coaches signals". Between all the other crap. Glazer does go on to say however, that the tapes show the Pats were blatantly trying to steal signs in their taping. http://larrybrownsports.com/football/spygate-tapes-girls-wild-video/1501 So? Stealing signs is not against the rules. Why do you think it is? Every team knows that teams steal signs and employ lip readers that is why coaches cover their mouths with play cards. Again, they did not get punished for stealing signals, but taping those signals from the sideline which is prohibited. / and do you know that it was not even a "rule: as in the rule book type of rule, but a league office "proclamation" that the competition committee never voted on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 And Glazer said that the "Patriots were blatantly trying to steal coaches signals". Of course they were, just like the other 31 teams taping opponents. What else would they be taping, the blond sitting in the 3rd row with big boobs and no bra? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 And Glazer said that the "Patriots were blatantly trying to steal coaches signals". Between all the other crap. Glazer does go on to say however, that the tapes show the Pats were blatantly trying to steal signs in their taping. http://larrybrownsports.com/football/spygate-tapes-girls-wild-video/1501 Ernie Adams job was to match signals with down and distance as part of his "research" title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Of course they were, just like the other 31 teams taping opponents. What else would they be taping, the blond sitting in the 3rd row with big boobs and no bra? Your ill informed brethren in this thread, said there was nothing to see on those tapes. You Pat fans need to huddle together, come up with a cohesive line of alibis/excuses, come to agreement and then come back here. You are as disorganized as Belichick's wardrobe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodGreen Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Wow, I never heard that before, did you read that somewhere lately? We have newspapers and the internet up here in NE also. I posted what the ESPN sport Science said and attributed to that segment. That is all. It actually is 100% true and you don't need a scientist to attest to it. It is simply logic, if you try to squeeze a wet ball the more air pressure inside of it, the easier it slides out of your hands. Lessen the pressure inside the ball and you are able to exert more of your own pressure to the outside of the ball, making it easier to control. It is simple junior high school physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaJet Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 It actually is 100% true and you don't need a scientist to attest to it. It is simply logic, if you try to squeeze a wet ball the more air pressure inside of it, the easier it slides out of your hands. Lessen the pressure inside the ball and you are able to exert more of your own pressure to the outside of the ball, making it easier to control. It is simple junior high school physics. And I agree 100%. What is your point, I never said or alluded to anything different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuidoYastrzemski Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Your ill informed brethren in this thread, said there was nothing to see on those tapes. You Pat fans need to huddle together, come up with a cohesive line of alibis/excuses, come to agreement and then come back here. You are as disorganized as Belichick's wardrobe. LMFAO...we have said the same thing, you're just too biased to see it. The tapes showed the clock with down and distance, then the signals and the plays, with a LOT of close ups of t!ts and asses. No Rams walk throughs. Nothing can can't be seen from the stands, or the approved filming location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JN QB Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 According to the memo Goodell sent to all teams in July 2007, yes, the Pats violated the rules by still taping from the sidelines. I would like for just one Jets fan, or any fan of the NFL, to explain what would be different from taping from the sidelines versus taping from the end zone or pressbox. Does taping from the sidelines give the Pats some sort of competitive advantage????? Spygate is nothing more than BB's total arrogance and disregard for authority. He thinks he is above everyone else. That's what pissed me off. What's funny is, the week before they get exposed for making illegal substitutions and then have the audacity to smear it in the opponents face by saying that they should "read the rulebook". Fast forward one week, and another team calls The Pats* out for under inflated balls and they become conveniently ignorant and have no possible explanation on how it happened. That's what pissed every intelligent person off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 And Glazer said that the "Patriots were blatantly trying to steal coaches signals". Between all the other crap. Glazer does go on to say however, that the tapes show the Pats were blatantly trying to steal signs in their taping. http://larrybrownsports.com/football/spygate-tapes-girls-wild-video/1501 And that is not illegal. The issue is not stealing signals. That is allowed, “and it is done quite widely,” Commissioner Roger Goodell said. The issue, rather, is the method of acquiring the signals. “I’m not sure that there is a coach in the league that doesn’t expect that their signals are being intercepted by opposing teams,” Goodell said Feb. 1, two days before the Super Bowl. As Tex said, sideline taping is illegal. The Patriots were in violation of the rule and were punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuidoYastrzemski Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 What's funny is, the week before they get exposed for making illegal substitutions and then have the audacity to smear it in the opponents face by saying that they should "read the rulebook". Fast forward one week, and another team calls The Pats* out for under inflated balls and they become conveniently ignorant and have no possible explanation on how it happened. That's what pissed every intelligent person off. Illegal substitutions? What world do you live in? If you're talking about the eligible, ineligible play calls, they are perfectly legal and simply more evidence of BB's coaching superiority. If you're talking about the Solder TD which the refs should have thrown the flag. Blame the refs for blowing the call. Don't call that "cheating". Just shows your ignorance. As to the balls. Funny, no one is quoting Rappaport's story that only ONE ball was 2# psi below. The others were very close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Your ill informed brethren in this thread, said there was nothing to see on those tapes. You Pat fans need to huddle together, come up with a cohesive line of alibis/excuses, come to agreement and then come back here. You are as disorganized as Belichick's wardrobe. Lol POTW nomination!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Really. Video* taping defensive signals? Really? That is sooo 2006. *It was actually on video tape. Seriously on VHS tapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Your ill informed brethren in this thread, said there was nothing to see on those tapes. You Pat fans need to huddle together, come up with a cohesive line of alibis/excuses, come to agreement and then come back here. You are as disorganized as Belichick's wardrobe. Talking points... We didn't do it... OK if it turns out we did actually do it then everyone else is doing it too... OK well if nobody else was actually doing it then the rule was not clearly defined The rule was further defined in a 2nd memo from the commissioner you say? A memo which everyone and their mother knew was aimed at the Pats OK well then even if the rule was actually clarified AND we were caught red handed doing it AND if nobody else was doing it too then we gained no competitive advantage on the field from this... You really need to believe us on this one. We risked embarrassment as an organization and vilification in the media and the public and yet there was no actual benefit from this cheating This multi-year black-ops organization under the smartest football brain in the history of the NFL was taking these risks for no on-the-field benefit. Oh, and there were only ever actually six tapes despite many years worth of taping. Honest. And the next time we get caught cheating we might just have to demand an apology too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Talking points... We didn't do it... OK if it turns out we did actually do it then everyone else is doing it too... OK well if nobody else was actually doing it then the rule was not clearly defined The rule was further defined in a 2nd memo from the commissioner you say? A memo which everyone and their mother knew was aimed at the Pats OK well then even if the rule was actually clarified AND we were caught red handed doing it AND if nobody else was doing it too then we gained no competitive advantage on the field from this... You really need to believe us on this one. We risked embarrassment as an organization and vilification in the media and the public and yet there was no actual benefit from this cheating This multi-year black-ops organization under the smartest football brain in the history of the NFL was taking these risks for no on-the-field benefit. Oh, and there were only ever actually six tapes despite many years worth of taping. Honest. And the next time we get caught cheating we might just have to demand an apology too! Who said we did not do it. BB admitted to doing it right away, so nobody ever denied it. There were 6 teams doing it, I don't remember if it was 5 teams and the pats or 6 teams and the pats. Mangini also said he did it, and the pats kicked a jet video guy off the field the year earlier. You are 100% correct in the "Not fully defined" I am one of those fans at fault for that. I (patriot fans) never said that there was no competitive advantage from filming from the sidelines, just that no one could prove it was "better" than filming from the stands. Or you could look at it this way Spygate? how was this spying with a guy with a shoulder mounted camera with a patriots jacket on. Stealing signals? When there is no rule regarding stealing signals Filming the Rams walk thru? When the supposed cameraman said it never happened and the author of the article was censored by his newspaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Illegal substitutions? What world do you live in? If you're talking about the eligible, ineligible play calls, they are perfectly legal and simply more evidence of BB's coaching superiority. If you're talking about the Solder TD which the refs should have thrown the flag. Blame the refs for blowing the call. Don't call that "cheating". Just shows your ignorance. Exactly. That's the same as the Jets always trying to sneak 12 players on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Exactly. That's the same as the Jets always trying to sneak 12 players on the field. That's inept coaching and organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 LMFAO...we have said the same thing, you're just too biased to see it. The tapes showed the clock with down and distance, then the signals and the plays, with a LOT of close ups of t!ts and asses. No Rams walk throughs. Nothing can can't be seen from the stands, or the approved filming location. Right, and you are not biased, what so ever in this situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Right, and you are not biased, what so ever in this situation As you are sir! That is why we are both fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 That's inept coaching and organization. Guess that one went over your head Dierk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Kraft will crush them like a c o c k a roach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 ... Or you could look at it this way Spygate? how was this spying with a guy with a shoulder mounted camera with a patriots jacket on. Stealing signals? When there is no rule regarding stealing signals Filming the Rams walk thru? When the supposed cameraman said it never happened and the author of the article was censored by his newspaper. How was it illegal to rob a bank with a gun while wearing a leather jacket when there are no laws against wearing a leather jacket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Kraft will crush them like a c o c k a roach. At some point New York politicians ended up getting rid of Sheldon Silver when even a month ago and for the last twenty years anyone who knew anything about NY politics would have told you such an outcome was simply not possible. At some point the other 31 owners are simnply going to get tired of the rotting stench coming from New England and they will decide to do something about it. My guess is that it will be sooner rather than later. Just imagine how reluctant the commissioner will have to be in public when he is forced to take real action against a multi-time offender and a personal friend. Heck it might actually go a long way to restoring his reputation after the Ray Rice debacle and the issues surrounding the settlement with retired players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 How was it illegal to rob a bank with a gun while wearing a leather jacket when there are no laws against wearing a leather jacket? It is not illegal to steal signals, as it is to rob a bank, so what is the analogy you are trying to make. a more appropriate analogy would be that it is ok for you to withdraw money from a bank, but that the bank can ask you to remove your hat and sunglasses before you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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