John Idzik

[#27TheDominator]

IIRC Davis never hit the open market. He had a deal set with the Colts before he hit FA. Everybody can only sign the deal after the "legal tapering" window. But he deal done right at the start of that window. He did not visit anyone. Period.

 

The way DRC performed last season people here would have wanted him buried alive before the season ended. Didn't he a few very very awful games. So let's not pretend that would have been a very popular move. And frankly DRC did not perform like a #1 or #2 CB. So what's the use for the long term deal for mediocre.

 

False.  You can sign your own free agents before the period begins.  Witness David Harris and Bilal Powell.  Vontae Davis did not sign until an hour into the actual free agency period.  I am pretty sure the Jets met with him.  If they didn't it is even more pathetic.  Most people thought he was leaving and we were the front runners.  Cromartie was still available after DRC signed and they let him walk for peanuts.  I didn't really want him back, but Idzik provided no alternative.

 

Remember this:

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/glacial-idzik-toasted-jets-gm-ripped-cb-article-1.1725044

[JetsFanInDenver]

I am pretty sure the Jets met with him. If they didn't it is even more pathetic.

 

Wrong. The JETS never met with him. It was reported the JETS were planning to go after him aggressively but he was close to signing with the Colts. He never visited the JETS. Period.

 

 

We already talked about Cro.  I thought it was the only move last season I would have done differently.

 

But when the JETS refused to sign Cro a great majority of the posters here did not care. Because he was coming off a subpar year with the JETS. Only very few posters did think a 1 year deal for 3-4 mill he was getting from the Cardinals was a low risk/high reward deal.

 

 

I was with the board with letting Cromartie walk, but that was before the guy whiffed on the market.

[nyjets782]

It's so easy to pile on. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

But when the JETS refused to sign Cro a great majority of the posters here did not care. Because he was coming off a subpar year with the JETS.  Only very few posters did think a 1 year deal for 3-4 mill he was getting from the Cardinals was a low risk/high reward deal.

 

Revis was also coming of a subpar year by his standard. And i guess Woody still did not want to sign Revis then. A 4-12 season does a lot to change an owner's mind. But last season the owner was one season removed from wanting to get rid of Revis. So Revis had a very good season but not the kind of season he had in 2009. If last season anyone had given Revis a 55 mill deal (assuming he was willing to take one) coming of the subpar season he had with Tampa this whole board would have got a collective aneurysm.

 

IIRC Vontae Davis was signed before he could hit the market.

 

DRC was a great non signing. Just look at what he did for the Giants.

 

So now with the benefit of hindsight you can criticize a GM all you want but last season I won't blame him not making the Revis, DRC move. Also the plan was to get younger. It did not work out for the JETS. But that's always the risk you take when you are trying to build with the draft.

Vontae Davis was NOT signed before he hit the market.  The Jets did make an offer for him but knowing Idsick, it was probably a 1 year deal for $4M.  NO ONE preferred Patterson over Cromartie for the same money.  Again, in order to support this idiot and be a contrarian, you must rewrite history to try to make a case.

[nyjets782]

But he started for us in his second season and did well. I won't be surprised if some of the players Idzik drafted last draft turn out to be good for us in the next few seasons.

Slow down.... He was adequate at best.  He ranked toward the bottom in terms of guards but watching Colon and Winters made you think this guy was a stud.  I hope he progresses but right now he's no better than a JAG.

[JetsFanInDenver]

The Jets did make an offer for him but knowing Idsick, it was probably a 1 year deal for $4M.

 

Thanks for enlightening us with manufactured facts.

 

NO ONE preferred Patterson over Cromartie for the same money.

 

Where did you see me say that  ? They were separate events., And yes when we decided to pass on Cro not many were losing their sleep over it.

[jmat321]

He'll redeem himself this tax season. H&R Block looking to promote him to Branch Manager per Schefter.

[nyjets782]

Wrong. The JETS never met with him. It was reported the JETS were planning to go after him aggressively but he was close to signing with the Colts. He never visited the JETS. Period.

 

 

We already talked about Cro.  I thought it was the only move last season I would have done differently.

They may not have met with him but they had the ability to make offers to him.... he signed AFTER the legal tampering period.  You seriously are hanging on this to defend this idiot?  That should tell you something right there.

[nyjets782]

Thanks for enlightening us with manufactured facts.

 

 

 

 

Where did you see me say that  ? They were separate events., And yes when we decided to pass on Cro not many were losing their sleep over it.

Thanks for making up facts to defend a miserable failure of an executive.  Davis hit free agency as much as you want to whine that he didn't.  The problem with the offseason is that every time this moron passed on someone, we all were waiting for the Plan B that never came.  So to say that no one was that upset is silly.  Many people were upset because most of the best corners were off the market and Cro did seem like he wanted to stay.  Most of those who weren't too upset probably based that upon some faith that there would be some backup plan than NEVER came to fruition.

[JetsFanInDenver]

They may not have met with him but they had the ability to make offers to him.... he signed AFTER the legal tampering period.  You seriously are hanging on this to defend this idiot?  That should tell you something right there.

 

 

So you want a team to make offers for a player they had never had on the team without even meeting him. Gotcha.

 

I know it's easy have selective memories and flow with the currents and pile on. Keep at it. You are good.

[nyjets782]

So you want a team to make offers for a player they had never had on the team without even meeting him. Gotcha.

 

I know it's easy have selective memories and flow with the currents and pile on. Keep at it. You are good.

And you have shown yourself to have a 3rd grade football education whining and moaning about this offseason and crying about how we have no cap space available for when someone releases a bona fide franchise QB. (Could be the dumbest thing I have ever heard)

 

And did you just watch this free agency period, genius?  How many of those guys met with the teams they signed with?  Do you think Maxwell met with Philly when his deal was announced 10 minutes into the legal tampering period?  The days of the wine and dine free agent visits are largely in the past.  I know its hard to focus with all the tears for your beloved joke of a GM but try to focus on the facts.. at least you'll have credibility that way instead of appearing like some lunatic.

 

So yes, I wanted them to make an offer on a player that they never personally brought in for a visit and guess what, that's what they did!!!!!  You have done nothing but embarrass yourself on this thread.

[boxman]

I was in Idzik's corner for a while but it eventually became clear he knew next to nothing about football.

[JetsFanInDenver]

And you have shown yourself to have a 3rd grade football education whining and moaning about this offseason and crying about how we have no cap space available for when someone releases a bona fide franchise QB. (Could be the dumbest thing I have ever heard)

 

And did you just watch this free agency period, genius?  How many of those guys met with the teams they signed with?  Do you think Maxwell met with Philly when his deal was announced 10 minutes into the legal tampering period?  The days of the wine and dine free agent visits are largely in the past.  I know its hard to focus with all the tears for your beloved joke of a GM but try to focus on the facts.. at least you'll have credibility that way instead of appearing like some lunatic.

 

So yes, I wanted them to make an offer on a player that they never personally brought in for a visit and guess what, that's what they did!!!!!  You have done nothing but embarrass yourself on this thread.

 

Nice to see your only resort here is to start name calling. That is always SOOOOO helpful in proving your point.  Plus its also proves you are a tough guy. Which is really helpful around here. So don't ever take that stick out of your a$$.

 

Sorry i don't have enough time to spend talking to you, oh great one.

 

GFY! (which means Great Finally meeting Ya)

[nyjets782]

Nice to see your only resort here is to start name calling. That is always SOOOOO helpful in proving your point.  Plus its also proves you are a tough guy. Which is really helpful around here. So don't take that stick out of your a$$.

 

Sorry i don't have enough time to spend talking to you, oh great one.

 

GFY! (which means Great Finally meeting Ya)

No my resort was use facts to support my case, tough guy.  You apparently had lots of time to make a losing argument.  Keep carrying the water for your failed GM...

[#27TheDominator]

Wrong. The JETS never met with him. It was reported the JETS were planning to go after him aggressively but he was close to signing with the Colts. He never visited the JETS. Period.

 

 

We already talked about Cro.  I thought it was the only move last season I would have done differently.

 

 

3 day legal tampering window, the guy is one of your main targets and you don't visit?  That is ******* worse than just getting outbid.  It's actually a ******* disgrace.  If Davis planned to stick with the Colts, it was Idzik's job to have a plan B.  Not to wait around low-ball DRC and sign Dimitri Patterson. 

[RutgersJetFan]

3 day legal tampering window, the guy is one of your main targets and you don't visit? That is ******* worse than just getting outbid. It's actually a ******* disgrace. If Davis planned to stick with the Colts, it was Idzik's job to have a plan B. Not to wait around low-ball DRC and sign Dimitri Patterson.

Sure, but what does that even get us? 5-11 at best?

[JetsFanInDenver]

3 day legal tampering window, the guy is one of your main targets and you don't visit?  That is ******* worse than just getting outbid.  It's actually a ******* disgrace.  If Davis planned to stick with the Colts, it was Idzik's job to have a plan B.  Not to wait around low-ball DRC and sign Dimitri Patterson. 

 

Well you gotta ask Mr. Davis about why he did not visit.

 

I have no problem with not signing DRC. And unless you have a crystal ball you cannot predict Patterson's stupid meltdown. So yeah hindsight it's 20/20 and its so easy to criticize and look smart.

[JetsFanInDenver]

No my resort was use facts to support my case, tough guy.  You apparently had lots of time to make a losing argument.  Keep carrying the water for your failed GM...

 

Some people are so used to the just hearing chorus that they just do not have the mental capacity to bear another opinion or to look at the other side.

 

I always look at both sides of the coin. Just a pesky old habit i have. 

[SouthernJet]

Some people are so used to the just hearing chorus that they just do not have the mental capacity to bear another opinion or to look at the other side.

 

I always look at both sides of the coin. Just a pesky old habit i have. 

[drdetroit]

People keep saying this, but I don't believe it to be true. Revis signed with the Pats late in free agency and he signed a contract that gave him 12mil and an out. There's no way in hades Revis was going to sign that kind of deal with the Jets and it would have been utterly stupid for the Jets to sign him to that kind of deal if he wanted to take it.

Revis was either coming to the Jets for the type of contract he signed this year or he wasn't coming. Guess what, he didn't come. Revisionist history can be written to fit the desires of the writer, but doesn't have to be base on anything but one's own wishful thinking.

Whatever, it is absolutely true that we could have had both Cro and Revis last offseason. This is no-spin zone

[SMC]

At least there is someone other than John Idzik's mom that thinks he did a good job.

[Tinstar]

Whatever, it is absolutely true that we could have had both Cro and Revis last offseason. This is no-spin zone

I agree, but that's not what you started with.  You said we could have had Revis for less money than he got this yr, and I beg to differ.

[win4ever]

For someone who hates Idzik with every fiber of my being... this is the greatest post I have ever seen. 

 

Lol Thanks,  

 

I agree with most of this.

I think Idziks problem was he was thinking too far down the road. His stingy negotiating style could have paid dividends down the road.

He got Decker for a great deal, as well as how he structured some other contracts. I'm glad he passed on DRC, but he had no plan B.

Idzik would have never signed Revis and Cro for these ridiculous contracts they just got. But this is the NFL's biggest media market and you have to make big moves sometimes.

 

He got a good deal with Decker, but I think there is a decent part of that negotiations that we can attribute to his wife and their TV show needing a bigger market.  The Jets had a decided advantage in that regard.  Reality shows and exposure to a larger media market for his wife helps compensate for the loss of some revenue he may have given up with the contract.   So I don't know if we can fully credit him for that, or if he had a stacked hand in his favor.  But the deal is actually a very nice deal, so have to give him some credit.  

 

He may not sign the contract, but the problem is that at some point or another, you need stud guys at certain positions because the coach's philosophy has to match up as well with the plan.  For example, Rex needs a stud secondary, and he can play up the LBs because of the secondary via blitzes and schemes.  If we don't have a stud secondary, even good value LBs will lose value because the system puts these ok corners at risk above their talent level.  

 

At the risk of spoiling a perfectly good lynching how is this a bad thing. This is business. The worse they can say is NO. Agents and players getting upset ? For what ? These are not 4 year old kids.

 

But that's how you sometimes get the best deals. Any halfway decent negotiator would tell you that.

 

I think most negotiators will tell you that you need leverage to actually bargain.  With the high end talent, these teams don't nearly has as much leverage as people assume, because there are plenty of options out there for the players and agents to make a move.  So then you placate to the player more than the other way around when it's a big name type.  

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2387621-fat-steaks-and-big-promises-an-inside-look-at-nfl-free-agent-visits

 

I know it's from BR, but it's a very good article, that pretty much explains that the whole interview process is reversed, and the teams are really just trying to impress the player, than the other way around.  So in those cases, these players can get this type of treatment from numerous teams out there, so the agent and the player take time out of their day to come and visit, and then get low ball offers, they are going to be pissed and unhappy.  It would work, if they didn't have any other options, but if a team is offering 5 million, and there are several teams offering 10 million, then you are going to be angry that you even bothered to try to it.  I think it works in any facet of life.  The only guys that would go for this type of negotiating are the ones that don't have any leverage of their own, because their options are extremely limited, ala Goodson, Patterson, and to an extent CJ.  Guys that need to rebuild their value and are just looking for a place to get an opportunity. Sometimes these deals may work out, but it did not for us, and for that we can't absolve Idzik for it.  I think his ideology is fine and well founded, but if you can't actually execute it, you don't get brownie points for trying.

 

The only other way to do this, is stick to your guns, and then be able to add players on the cheap and actually be successful.  You could avoid big names in free agency (plenty of good teams do it, because they know they don't have leverage) but then you have to actually be that much better than the competition at finding the cheap guys in the scrap heap that turn out to be good, or be an excellent drafter.  Neither of this applied to Idzik, because he all but whiffed in the drafts, and his low end signings were for the most part a disaster.  He tried, but he failed for two seasons.  

[JetsFanInDenver]

I think most negotiators will tell you that you need leverage to actually bargain.  With the high end talent, these teams don't nearly has as much leverage as people assume, because there are plenty of options out there for the players and agents to make a move.  So then you placate to the player more than the other way around when it's a big name type.  

 

 

Leverage depends on the player and the situation. Please refer to DeMarco murray and his reaching out personally to Chip Kelly in this year's draft.

 

You did not offer any specifics on which player Idzik low balled. Seemed like you were just piling on. So if you have specifics let us know.

[win4ever]

Leverage depends on the player and the situation. Please refer to DeMarco murray and his reaching out personally to Chip Kelly in this year's draft.

 

You did not offer any specifics on which player Idzik low balled. Seemed like you were just piling on. So if you have specifics let us know.

 

How did Murray reach out in this year's draft?  He actually got paid excellent money, and would be a case where Dallas tried to get him cheap, and couldn't do so, thus he went to a division rival for excellent money because the Eagles had money, and opportunity.  Not sure, how this applies as a low ball attempt either from Murray or the Eagles.  

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mehta-frugal-gm-continues-put-ny-jets-path-irrelevancy-article-1.1963225

 

Rodgers-Cromartie in that article, and how he didn't even want to meet with Emmanuel Saunders. 

 

Cromartie is another one that all but begged to be back in NY, and took an absolute bargain basement deal with the Cards.  

[win4ever]

Leverage depends on the player and the situation. Please refer to DeMarco murray and his reaching out personally to Chip Kelly in this year's draft.

 

You did not offer any specifics on which player Idzik low balled. Seemed like you were just piling on. So if you have specifics let us know.

 

I'm going to write another one, because the font wouldn't go away on the other post.  

 

Leverage is associated in three ways:   Money, Playing time others can't provide, or the chance to win for a player. 

 

The two years that Idzik was here, we could provide one of the three.  But Idzik would not relent on paying up for the big time stars, so they willfully moved on elsewhere where they could get more money, same amount of playing time, and possibly a better chance to win.   Idzik miscalculates his position because when dealing with the top end of the FA chart, he had nothing besides being able to offer good money.  

 

And he pissed off agents twice (in Saunders case by being at the Texas Tech pro day) and Rodgers-Cromartie by being at the Louisville pro day when they came in for visits.  

[JetsFanInDenver]

I'm going to write another one, because the font wouldn't go away on the other post.  

 

Leverage is associated in three ways:   Money, Playing time others can't provide, or the chance to win for a player. 

 

The two years that Idzik was here, we could provide one of the three.  But Idzik would not relent on paying up for the big time stars, so they willfully moved on elsewhere where they could get more money, same amount of playing time, and possibly a better chance to win.   Idzik miscalculates his position because when dealing with the top end of the FA chart, he had nothing besides being able to offer good money.  

 

And he pissed off agents twice (in Saunders case by being at the Texas Tech pro day) and Rodgers-Cromartie by being at the Louisville pro day when they came in for visits.  

 

I am sure there are some genuine things in here. But that's beside the point.

 

What we were discussing is your statement below.

 

9. Various rumors about how he would lowball people and upset agents and players.

 

This is was the statement you made. Any specific examples of lowballing players and upsetting agents and players ?

[win4ever]

I am sure there are some genuine things in here. But that's beside the point.

 

What we were discussing is your statement below.

 

 

This is was the statement you made. Any specific examples of lowballing players and upsetting agents and players ?

 

I just gave you an article that cited sources saying they low ball offered DRC, didn't even give the time of day to Sanders.  And we know he ignored Revis as well.  

 

How much more specific do you want?  No player is going to actually reveal what the offer was, nor would the team.  

[JetsFanInDenver]

I just gave you an article that cited sources saying they low ball offered DRC, didn't even give the time of day to Sanders.  And we know he ignored Revis as well.  

 

How much more specific do you want?  No player is going to actually reveal what the offer was, nor would the team.  

 

It's a good thing we did not sign DRC and let him out of the building. I did not read the article. But if it said DRC and his agent was upset I am glad.

 

Revis most likely was still on the owners naughty list. So nothing Idzik could do about it.

[detectivekimble]

I would say Keller, Landry and Slauson were more difficult. And some others.

 

Holmes was basically done and a cancer. That's not the best example of course. Rex would have kept Sanchez and you know it. Anything to validate that tattoo of his.

 

That's why he brought Sanchez to Buffalo, right?  Sanchez was done here.  I'll agree on Landry, though.  Rex wasn't letting a pro bowl secondary player go.

 

And letting go of Slauson was stupid.

[win4ever]

It's a good thing we did not sign DRC and let him out of the building. I did not read the article. But if it said DRC and his agent was upset I am glad.

 

Revis most likely was still on the owners naughty list. So nothing Idzik could do about it.

 

Judging from his actions this year, Revis definitely wasn't on Johnson's naughty list, and there were plenty of articles on Jet officials wanting Revis back, but Idzik didn't care.  

 

Why would you say DRC was a good thing to be let out of the building?  His contract average is less than what Cromartie is going to make with us on a per year basis, and very close to what Skrine got this year.  He's well cheaper than Maxwell, and he completely outperformed Maxwell, Skrine, and Cromartie in PFF ratings this year.  His rating last year would be right near what Brandon Flowers did for the Chargers, and everyone loved him in that defense.  So why would pissing off his agent, and low balling a good CB who had a good year, be a good thing?  Especially when we needed CBs.   It was a depressed market for CBs, which someone like Revis saw, and alas went for a 1 year deal, and yet our wonder GM decided it was a good time to go get Patterson as  his find from the wild.  

[nyjets782]

Well you gotta ask Mr. Davis about why he did not visit.

 

I have no problem with not signing DRC. And unless you have a crystal ball you cannot predict Patterson's stupid meltdown. So yeah hindsight it's 20/20 and its so easy to criticize and look smart.

Yes because Patterson looked great even before he went AWOL.  The guy was with his 7th team for crying out loud!

[nyjets782]

Some people are so used to the just hearing chorus that they just do not have the mental capacity to bear another opinion or to look at the other side.

 

I always look at both sides of the coin. Just a pesky old habit i have. 

It's funny how everyone is ramming facts down your throat and you are incapable of refuting them so you opine about your supposed intelligence.  But feel good about yourself...really...maybe a franchise QB will fall off a tree like you said.

[nyjets782]

It's a good thing we did not sign DRC and let him out of the building. I did not read the article. But if it said DRC and his agent was upset I am glad.

 

Revis most likely was still on the owners naughty list. So nothing Idzik could do about it.

I just have to ask... do you think that Idzik will ever get another GM job again?   If not, is that because all 31 teams just want to "pile on" or is that because the 31 teams agree he is hot garbage as a GM?  But you clearly know better than all of us.  He took us from a low talent level to an embarrassingly low talent level... that's the bottom line and you spend your time championing him.  It is truly bizarre.

[GREENBEAN]

That's why he brought Sanchez to Buffalo, right?  Sanchez was done here.  I'll agree on Landry, though.  Rex wasn't letting a pro bowl secondary player go.

 

And letting go of Slauson was stupid.

Sanchez re signed with the Eagles prior to the real FA period starting.  Rex never even had a shot for him. Not that he would have brought him in there.  Him already being on the Jets roster is a completely different scenario.

 

Slauson was good and not the smartest of moves as we both agree.

[Jetmech]

Its beyond me why JI gets praised for "fixing" the cap. Like it was so labor intensive to release players.