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Modern NFL naturally leads to Spread offense, Jets have ALL the tools to improve

Gas2No99

By Gas2No99
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Gas2No99

Gas2No99

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Chan Gailey is one of the initial pilots to have brought a "spread" (for argument sake a base of 3+ WRs, Single back who motions out a lot) attacking offense with Buffalo that was effective. He made it work with the talent he had; the sum of the less than stellar individual parts achieved its objective for the most part.

We witness how this style of offense worked for 3 years from 2010-2012.

Since then, the NFL has imposed more stringent coverage rules that heavily favors a passing game by either WRs getting calls or QBs getting calls for roughing the passer penalties. These type of penalties are much more apparent and decisive in today's NFL than 4-5 years ago.

Gailey has brooded since in obscurity after 2012 only to be suddenly cast as the new Jets OC. as most initally specualted to specifically implement a spread attak offense.

The tools are there:

*Veteran QB who already knows & excels in system, only restrained by physical/age ceiling/limits

* Young Veteran QB who has all the physical tools and excelled in a collegiate spread offense.

* Rookie QB with all physical tools that TORCHED collegiate competition in simple spread offense

*#1 WR who is red zone threat - Marshall

*#2 WR possession complimentary chain mover - Decker

*experienced veteran quick Slot WR - Kerley

*rookie WR SPEED DEMON DEEP THREAT BURNER - Devon Smith

* young 6'4" TE who has speed to stretch the vertical seam and motion out against a #3 or #4 DB - Amaro

The real question comes down to the effectiveness of our RBs as dual threats and OLine.

We all expect Gailey to play a heavy passing game, but all Bowles keeps lauding about ChanChan is his great sense of balance, ie. running game will be material despite our more obvious WR strength.

Powell will be the dark horse to shine in this offense; he can run for slid YPC, block, and receive out the backfield. Like Marshawn lynch in Buffalo, Ivory's style won't compute to much playing time in this offense. I hope I'm wrong because he's a battering ram that can wear down a defense and kill the clock in the 2nd half.

It's been a while since we've had this type of offensive fire power, 2015 seems very promising.

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GREENBEAN

GREENBEAN

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Chan Gailey is known for being able to put his players in the best position to succeed. He creates his offense out of what he has available.  Ivory is a hard working tough runner who literally punishes defenses. I can't imagine a world where Ivory isn't used heavily. Maybe not as the traditional "feature" back, but I think we will see plenty of Ivory and rightfully so.

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Gas2No99

Gas2No99

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Chan Gailey is known for being able to put his players in the best position to succeed. He creates his offense out of what he has available.  Ivory is a hard working tough runner who literally punishes defenses. I can't imagine a world where Ivory isn't used heavily. Maybe not as the traditional "feature" back, but I think we will see plenty of Ivory and rightfully so.

While I agree, Chan's history indicates otherwise.

Marshawn Lynch was the 12th overall pick in 2007 (2 spots ahead of Revis) and one can argue that Ivory has a running style that is congruent to Lynch's. Lynch started 3 games for Gailey in 2010 & the shipped him off to Seattle for a 4th rounder & eventually a 5th as well. Gailey drafted CJ Spiller 10th overall in 2010 and you saw him excel in Chan's offense.

Once Chan was gone, Spiller has been less than spectacular & injured all the time. Hindsight is 20/20 but I see that as an indicator that Gailey may prefer receiving RBs which was not Lynch's, nor Ivory's, strength. That's why we all thought Duke Jonhsonn WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECT for this offense. Alas, we missed out on him.

Notice we have NO RBs signed beyond 2016 except Stacy, IIRC

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GREENBEAN

GREENBEAN

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While I agree, Chan's history indicates otherwise.

Marshawn Lynch was the 12th overall pick in 2007 (2 spots ahead of Revis) and one can argue that Ivory has a running style that is congruent to Lynch's. Lynch started 3 games for Gailey in 2010 & the shipped him off to Seattle for a 4th rounder & eventually a 5th as well. Gailey drafted CJ Spiller 10th overall in 2010 and you saw him excel in Chan's offense.

Once Chan was gone, Spiller has been less than spectacular & injured all the time. Hindsight is 20/20 but I see that as an indicator that Gailey may prefer receiving RBs which was not Lynch's, nor Ivory's, strength. That's why we all thought Duke Jonhsonn WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECT for this offense. Alas, we missed out on him.

Notice we have NO RBs signed beyond 2016 except Stacy, IIRC

That's a good point and one that I did not consider.

 

I wonder how Chan would have used Lynch had spiller not become available though and would he have traded him at all.  We will never know of course and I won't base any points on that hypothetical. I will rephrase my wording and say that I HOPE Chan figures out a way to utilize Ivory because I just love watching that guy run.

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32EBoozer

32EBoozer

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Lynch has actually improved as a receiver out of the backfield and I'm hoping Ivory can do the same.

 

Ivory caught 18 of 27 targets last year. Not a greta % but look who was throwing balls last year and how Defenses stacked the box.

It could be totally different this yr. If Ivory can catch 35 balls for 250 yards, that will certainly discourage DE(Suh, Mario and Chandler) from pinning their ears back.

That's a good point and one that I did not consider.

 

I wonder how Chan would have used Lynch had spiller not become available though and would he have traded him at all.  We will never know of course and I won't base any points on that hypothetical. I will rephrase my wording and say that I HOPE Chan figures out a way to utilize Ivory because I just love watching that guy run.

Marshawn Lynch was the 12th overall pick in 2007 (2 spots ahead of Revis) and one can argue that Ivory has a running style that is congruent to Lynch's. Lynch started 3 games for Gailey in 2010 & the shipped him off to Seattle for a 4th rounder & eventually a 5th as well. Gailey drafted CJ Spiller 10th overall in 2010 and you saw him excel in Chan's offense. Once Chan was gone, Spiller has been less than spectacular & injured all the time. Hindsight is 20/20 but I see that as an indicator that Gailey may prefer receiving RBs which was not Lynch's, nor Ivory's, strength. That's why we all thought Duke Jonhsonn WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECT for this offense. Alas, we missed out on him. Notice we have NO RBs signed beyond 2016 except Stacy, IIRC
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T0mShane

T0mShane

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While I agree, Chan's history indicates otherwise.

Marshawn Lynch was the 12th overall pick in 2007 (2 spots ahead of Revis) and one can argue that Ivory has a running style that is congruent to Lynch's. Lynch started 3 games for Gailey in 2010 & the shipped him off to Seattle for a 4th rounder & eventually a 5th as well. Gailey drafted CJ Spiller 10th overall in 2010 and you saw him excel in Chan's offense.

Once Chan was gone, Spiller has been less than spectacular & injured all the time. Hindsight is 20/20 but I see that as an indicator that Gailey may prefer receiving RBs which was not Lynch's, nor Ivory's, strength. That's why we all thought Duke Jonhsonn WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECT for this offense. Alas, we missed out on him.

Notice we have NO RBs signed beyond 2016 except Stacy, IIRC

Lynch got shipped out of Buffalo because he was a weed-addicted, uncoachable jerkoff.

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Jetster

Jetster

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While I agree, Chan's history indicates otherwise.

Marshawn Lynch was the 12th overall pick in 2007 (2 spots ahead of Revis) and one can argue that Ivory has a running style that is congruent to Lynch's. Lynch started 3 games for Gailey in 2010 & the shipped him off to Seattle for a 4th rounder & eventually a 5th as well. Gailey drafted CJ Spiller 10th overall in 2010 and you saw him excel in Chan's offense.

Once Chan was gone, Spiller has been less than spectacular & injured all the time. Hindsight is 20/20 but I see that as an indicator that Gailey may prefer receiving RBs which was not Lynch's, nor Ivory's, strength. That's why we all thought Duke Jonhsonn WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECT for this offense. Alas, we missed out on him.

Notice we have NO RBs signed beyond 2016 except Stacy, IIRC

I think Duke Johnson or Coleman was who Mac was targeting when he traded back. Seeing both sitting there he probably thought one would be there, but, both were grabbed before our pick thus their board had Mauldin the highest ranked BPA at that point.

While some here are panning the Zac Stacy trade saying he's a Jag, he ran behind one the WORST Olines at St.Louis.

Plus they had no QB so defenses stacked the line & dared them to throw.

He ran for over 1000 yards in 2013.

Agree that Powell might turn out to be very good chain mover out of the backfield in the spread. He's got enough wiggle to get the 1st LB to miss, doesn't have BREAKAWAY speed but he's a really good blocker which is really important in the spread when the opposing team blitzes.

The idea by Bowles might be to get leads and then give a large dose of Ivory, Stacy to tire the defense with some play action shots to close them out with a couple of big play TDs.

As many talking head ex-jocks have said on both ESPN & NFL network, it won't be easy to score over 17 points against this Jet defense. Some like Joe Klecko, just looking at the players Bowles has to work with are saying they could be "special".

If the LBs pan out & a couple of guys shine they could have all 3 levels kicking azz.

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Gas2No99

Gas2No99

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The Jets will still run the ball well. It is the bread and butter of this team. Now defenses will not be able to stack the box. Ivory will get a lot of play. BP is the Man. This is his break out opportunity.

 

 

In theory we should because we have a STRONGER running game due to STOCKING UP on Veteran OLine bodies. In addition, since we had no passing game last year, the Running Game was our only offense, by default really, and can only become a more refined strength with adding Carpenter & drafting GUARDS - not T converts.

 

Despite teams stacking the box, Ivory ran well and, IN THEORY, the running game SHOULD OPEN UP b/c of the ridiculous amount of talent we now have at the Receiving positions which defenses MUST account for, if not double: Marshall, D. Smith, Amaro create the biigest mismatches IMO.

 

 

In that case ... Why did we not grab Spiller when he was available?

 

I think Spiller's PriceTag and sense of market/offensive worth was over inflated. He easily could have been replaced by a Duke Johnson or Coleman. Hell, I think we eventually make a play for Doug Martin next year if he's healthy.

 

 

Post makes argument tvat Chan makes use of what he has, which is largely true and encouraging.

Follow-up immediately implies he can't make use of Ivory. Contradicts initial argument.

 

The initial post pontificates how Chan's ability to "make us of what he has" is what LEAD TO his implementing, and introducing, a "spread" offense in the NFL. 

 

Then concludes, due to majority of fan & media speculation/opinion, that we NATURALLY are installing a similar "spread" offense that Chan used in Buff. It should make sense, the league favors a more open, vertical, pass-oriented offense. Looking at the current Receiving Roster, implementing the "spread" with the Jets' 2015 personnel seems like a Madden Video Game Stat line WAITING to happen. Bringing in Fitzy only seem to affirm this presumption. Thus, why we expected CJ Spiller to sign as well. 

 

Following that line of rationale, Ivory's style seems like the DECREASED asset in this "spread" offense; parallel to Lynch in Buff.

 

So THAT was my dilemma: Can ChanChan be the Man and INCORPORATE Ivory into a Spread offense - this presuming Chan RUNS the BUFF offense he did from 2010-2012, a leap of faith we are all assuming, but have no REAL idea - and not lose out on the role Ivory can provide (Grinder, 4th Defense Jader) the way he did on Lynch while in Buff. 

 

The HC wants a BALANCED offense, the Personnel FAVORS a Passing Game, we have a true POWER RB that doesn't PROJECT into team's supposed new philosophy, the OC is the WIldcard, AND WE HAVE A SICK DEFENSE!  2015 seems SOOO promising. 

 

Lynch got shipped out of Buffalo because he was a weed-addicted, uncoachable jerkoff.

 

That most likely is it too, but still . . . . Lynch for a 4th & a 5th!!! HEIST!

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Integrity28

Integrity28

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The initial post pontificates how Chan's ability to "make us of what he has" is what LEAD TO his implementing, and introducing, a "spread" offense in the NFL.    Then concludes, due to majority of fan & media speculation/opinion, that we NATURALLY are installing a similar "spread" offense that Chan used in Buff. It should make sense, the league favors a more open, vertical, pass-oriented offense. Looking at the current Receiving Roster, implementing the "spread" with the Jets' 2015 personnel seems like a Madden Video Game Stat line WAITING to happen. Bringing in Fitzy only seem to affirm this presumption. Thus, why we expected CJ Spiller to sign as well.    Following that line of rationale, Ivory's style seems like the DECREASED asset in this "spread" offense; parallel to Lynch in Buff.
 

 

Yeah, the two notions in bold still contradict each other. 

 

That said, I'll play along and ignore the logic flaw. Ivory is not Lynch. Lynch is GREAT. Ivory will forever be part of a RBBC. 

 

Lynch struggled to be productive in Buffalo, I'm no expert, but maybe it had more to do with the offensive line and the zone blocking scheme they were running. I don't think the equation (powerback + sh*tty roster) * spread offense = Ivory has no place makes any sense. If Ivory isn't getting on the field it's because he's never been particularly good in pass protection and/or he can execute the plays in the play book. Not because Lynch struggled early in his career.

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#27TheDominator

#27TheDominator

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We all thought they'd go for a scat back or at least a receiving threat, but the fact that they picked up Ridley seems to indicate that they don't have a huge problem with Ivory's style.  I wonder how bad Ivory is at receiving.  The Saints gave him his initial shot and they obviously prioritize it.  He certainly has not looked good so far. 

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jack48

jack48

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Lynch has actually improved as a receiver out of the backfield and I'm hoping Ivory can do the same.

 

Ivory caught 18 of 27 targets last year. Not a greta % but look who was throwing balls last year and how Defenses stacked the box.

It could be totally different this yr. If Ivory can catch 35 balls for 250 yards, that will certainly discourage DE(Suh, Mario and Chandler) from pinning their ears back.

 

Ivory possesses power AND speed.  He caught some balls last year.  If they can get him out with the ball he could hurt some DBs.  He is a terrible pass blocker tho.

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32EBoozer

32EBoozer

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Ivory possesses power AND speed.  He caught some balls last year.  If they can get him out with the ball he could hurt some DBs.  He is a terrible pass blocker tho.

Yeah... I just don't get it? Guys like Sproles and Woodhead and Morris can pass block but a guy of Ivory's size sucks? Has to be about desire! All that is required is to just get in the rushers way and keep him engaged even if it means getting put on your A$$.

 

He better realize Ridley should be ready to go by game 3 at the latest. In NE, you don't block you ride the pine.... I hope Bowles makes that clear in camp.

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jack48

jack48

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Yeah... I just don't get it? Guys like Sproles and Woodhead and Morris can pass block but a guy of Ivory's size sucks? Has to be about desire! All that is required is to just get in the rushers way and keep him engaged even if it means getting put on your A$$.

 

He better realize Ridley should be ready to go by game 3 at the latest. In NE, you don't block you ride the pine.... I hope Bowles makes that clear in camp.

I think Ivory just has an attacking nature.  He lunges at guys back there.  He does not absorb, he delivers---hits.  Geno needs all the protection he can get.  I cannot stomach watching him backpedal away from the rush again this year.

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Gas2No99

Gas2No99

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The reason I think Ivory may not be as integral in 2015 is based on 2 presumptions:

1) Chan Gailey installs an identical spread offense like he did in Buff 2010-2012

2) Bases on the first premise, Ivory - like Lynch due to similar style- may then not be a proper fit going forward if all things remain equal.

Those are 2 key assumptions that lead me to believe Ivory may be gone after 2015. Yet, there is the argument that Chan Can Implement a Plan to utilize the strengths of his players in the most optimal way. I hope there is a way to integrate Ivory, especially in the 4th quarter where he can grind an opposing team down to preserve leads, because he is an awesome Power back. Maybe Lynch was given away because he was a d!ck and not because Chan couldnt utilize him properly.

Despite all the indicators that this team is loaded for a spread passing attack in a passing league, Bowles keeps preaching balance and keeps citing Chan's days with Pittsburgh (Barry Foster, Jerome Bettis, Bam Morris) instead of his Buffalo days.

If we see more Pitt Chan than Buffalo Chan, then it actually indicates HEAVY doses of Ivory like those mid90s Steeler teams that rammed Barry Foster, Bam Morris, and Jerome Bettis down your throat all game long. Ground & Pound perhaps never left. Yet, if they stack the box.............GOOD LORD: Marshall, Decker, Kerley, D.Smith, Amaro, Cumberland!

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