EM31 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 10-6 was my preseason prediction and I am sticking with that. The conversation before this weekend might have been whether or not that number is too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 But saying Geno has been a total failure is not really true. He HAS been horrificly bad in some games, takes too many sacks, fumbles too often, and is very up and down. And he has some pretty strong games as well. As an example, Fitz in his entire career has 9 game winning drives, Geno already has 7. That does show some ability to perform under pressure. But in my view, you just cannot dismiss the factors that lead to his poor performance. Spread QB in college, Rex as HC, Marty as OC in probably the worst possible system you could have for Geno, complete lack of weapons. It is also impossible to ignore that after he came back from his benching last year he was a much different and effective QB. Plus, Bowles and Gailey did choose him as their starter. In my view, Geno may very well never get there, but I want to know. After 6 games, it is obvious that Fitz is not good enough. Teams now know how to shut him down, and it is very likely his performance will decrease for the remainder of the year. We did not lose the game because of Fitz on Sunday. In a perfect world, we had a reasonable chance of winning the game. But in my view, Fitz can win games from ahead. Geno has the potential to Win from behind' Get quick scores Press the ball downfield Dictate to an opposing defense Has dramatically higher upside. Accepting mediocrity from Fitz in the hopes of getting a wildcard and likely one and done is a waste in my opinion. A lot here think mediocrity is a step up and embrace that. That is really frustrating to me. It is a characteristic of loser franchises. We have to try and win it all in my view. Fitz is not the guy. See if Geno is. If he is not, draft a new guy and see if Petty or new guy are the one. Retread JAG veteran QBs like Fitz are the perfect way to remain a JAG team. Yes, we are 4-2 but those 4 victories are against teams with a combined record of 11-16, and Miami was a complete shambles when we played them, so our record is a bit deceiving im still not convinced that glenn foley isnt the guy. I demand more data until i am satisfied! the reasonable fans already have the data they need to make an assessment with a reasonable degree of certainty: he stinks and is unlikey to mature fast enough to be "the guy." also a playoff season is never a waste. We watch for entertainment and the longer the team is alive in the hunt for a ring, the more entertainment is thus derived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I think Philip Rivers is overrated, that doesn't mean I think he sucks. many think he is elite b/c of his impressive fantasy #s, I have seen this guy come up small in big spots far too many times to place him anywhere near elite. So where does he rank in your opinion. Not top-5 unless I am misreading your post above? Top-10? Top half? Where does Geno rank again in your opinion? Let's even say Geno up to today and Geno as you think he might become? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 but with fitz, the wins/losses means nothing and then its all about the numbers. Too hilarious except the tiny little part where I have said I am happy w/ Fitz and don't want to change QBs. You guys love making stuff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 im still not convinced that glenn foley isnt the guy. I demand more data until i am satisfied! the reasonable fans already have the data they need to make an assessment with a reasonable degree of certainty: he stinks and is unlikey to mature fast enough to be "the guy." also a playoff season is never a waste. We watch for entertainment and the longer the team is alive in the hunt for a ring, the more entertainment is thus derived. Nagle had a stronger arm than Foley or Geno Smith for that matter. I am not sure we put all of the best weapons around Nagle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 So where does he rank in your opinion. Not top-5 unless I am misreading your post above? Top-10? Top half? Where does Geno rank again in your opinion? Let's even say Geno up to today and Geno as you think he might become? No way top 5, maybe top 10 but there aren't a lot of good QBs out there. Geno ranks near the bottom based on his play the first 2 years, that has never been my argument. You guys pretend no other moves were made and Fitz the great rescued us. that's just not true, geno hasn't had a chance to play in this O w/ these weapons. He may STILL suck but that hasn't been proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 No way top 5, maybe top 10 but there aren't a lot of good QBs out there. Geno ranks near the bottom based on his play the first 2 years, that has never been my argument. You guys pretend no other moves were made and Fitz the great rescued us. that's just not true, geno hasn't had a chance to play in this O w/ these weapons. He may STILL suck but that hasn't been proven. A reasonable ceiling for Geno would be? Top-10? Top half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Nagle had a stronger arm than Foley or Geno Smith for that matter. I am not sure we put all of the best weapons around Nagle. what are these deflections for? you think Geno compares to Nagle? outside of Nagle's first game in Atlanta he never showed anything, Geno has shown flashes w/ less talent around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 A reasonable ceiling for Geno would be? Top-10? Top half? I have no idea, My guess is his ceiling at the moment is middle of the pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 what are these deflections for? you think Geno compares to Nagle? outside of Nagle's first game in Atlanta he never showed anything, Geno has shown flashes w/ less talent around him. Well that particular thread arc was trying to assess how much time a franchise should reasonably spend to find out what they have. QB starts are a precious commodity in the NFL and I think it is reasonable to ask how many cracks at the apple one player should get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 10-6 was my preseason prediction and I am sticking with that. The conversation before this weekend might have been whether or not that number is too low. Mine too, and I expected us to split with NE anyway. I'm never okay with losing to them, but baby steps... I had no realistic expectation that we'd sweep them. Beat the **** out of everything else that gets on the field with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 No way top 5, maybe top 10 but there aren't a lot of good QBs out there. Geno ranks near the bottom based on his play the first 2 years, that has never been my argument. You guys pretend no other moves were made and Fitz the great rescued us. that's just not true, geno hasn't had a chance to play in this O w/ these weapons. He may STILL suck but that hasn't been proven. It's personal with Geno. Many people hate Geno the person as much as Geno the QB. Except for Kristian Dyer (who eventually came around too) everyone thought Geno was significantly better than Fitz in camp, and as much as people want to ignore it, played at a really high level the last few games of the year. People just say he sucks but too many changes for the better on the Jets O for me to just accept that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Well that particular thread arc was trying to assess how much time a franchise should reasonably spend to find out what they have. QB starts are a precious commodity in the NFL and I think it is reasonable to ask how many cracks at the apple one player should get. to bring up Browning Nagle who never really did anything in this league and compare him to geno is silly. Geno has actually shown he can be decent at times, Browning never showed anything. Geno may be awful forever but is it fair to evaluate him w/ the talent around him and coaching of the last 2 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 to bring up Browning Nagle who never really did anything in this league and compare him to geno is silly. Geno has actually shown he can be decent at times, Browning never showed anything. Geno may be awful forever but is it fair to evaluate him w/ the talent around him and coaching of the last 2 years? fairness. Lol. Silly rabbit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 It's personal with Geno. Many people hate Geno the person as much as Geno the QB. Except for Kristian Dyer (who eventually came around too) everyone thought Geno was significantly better than Fitz in camp, and as much as people want to ignore it, played at a really high level the last few games of the year. People just say he sucks but too many changes for the better on the Jets O for me to just accept that. Geno was bad most of his 2 years so I understand it but he didn't have much of a chance. I hope he is learning from Fitz, if he can be close to the leader Fitz is w/ his physical abilities then you have a QB. he never should have started as a rookie, people forget this. he as forced into action when he wasn't ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I have no idea, My guess is his ceiling at the moment is middle of the pack. Actually I agree that he is at or near the bottom so far and that if he makes improvement then he might get to the middle of the pack. Some of us feel we are at the middle of the pack (or a BIT better) today and that making a change on the chance that Geno will improve to beCOme as good is not a good proposition. In any event I know you have not called for a QB change right now but that actually puts you in a minority of those who seem to be arguing on Geno's side in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I have no idea, My guess is his ceiling at the moment is middle of the pack. so his ceiling is... Fitz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Actually I agree that he is at or near the bottom so far and that if he makes improvement then he might get to the middle of the pack. Some of us feel we are at the middle of the pack (or a BIT better) today and that making a change on the chance that Geno will improve to beCOme as good is not a good proposition. In any event I know you have not called for a QB change right now but that actually puts you in a minority of those who seem to be arguing on Geno's side in here. we have a top 20 guy in Fitz, probably around 20. I am not calling for a switch, I think Fitz has played well the last couple of weeks but he still worries me and his reckless style will likely lead to injury so geno will have to play at some point. I hope he is ready, he will be needed whether short term or long term at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 so his ceiling is... Fitz? Fitz is below middle of the pack, he has the physical tools Fitz doesn't and for all Fitz's book smarts he's not the smartest QB around. Fitz is serviceable in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Nagle was a throwaway line after the Foley reference. It could just as well have been Foley and/or Lucas both of whom showed as much or more talent than Geno as QBs in shorter stints before their respective coaches moved on to a different guy. It was in response to how much evidence does a franchise need in order to make a decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I also would not discount the way the team seems to be behind Fitz in a way that seems very different from anything we ever heard about Geno. I hope the HE is paying attention because that is part of the lesson here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Geno was bad most of his 2 years so I understand it but he didn't have much of a chance. I hope he is learning from Fitz, if he can be close to the leader Fitz is w/ his physical abilities then you have a QB. he never should have started as a rookie, people forget this. he as forced into action when he wasn't ready. I think one thing people ignore is I thought he learned a lot from his benching as well. His attitude towards bad plays was completely changed after he came back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Nagle was a throwaway line after the Foley reference. It could just as well have been Foley and/or Lucas both of whom showed as much or more talent than Geno as QBs in shorter stints before their respective coaches moved on to a different guy. It was in response to how much evidence does a franchise need in order to make a decision? I understand but Nagle and Foley were different though Foley at least proved he can play. he wasn't a good starter but a good backup. I also would not discount the way the team seems to be behind Fitz in a way that seems very different from anything we ever heard about Geno. I hope the HE is paying attention because that is part of the lesson here. That is the part I love about Fitz, he has a calm personality on the field, his teammates LOVE him. he commands respect and geno does not, Fitz would not be getting punched in the LR. I hope Geno is taking notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I think one thing people ignore is I thought he learned a lot from his benching as well. His attitude towards bad plays was completely changed after he came back. My concern there was he ended 2013 playing his best football too and that didn't carry over to 2014, then he ended 2014 playing really well. I wanted to find out if he was just teasing us again but it wasn't meant to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 This is all a moot point. The team is 4-2; They are favorites to win next week and are likely to win 4 out of the next 5 games AND your QB isn't loosing the games for you (regardless of what people say about his arm strength). You just don't change QBs at this point. Even the great BB didn't bench a struggling Drew Bledsoe and he actually had a future HOF QB on the bench. It just isn't going to happen. The only way Geno sees the field this year is if Fitz gets hurt, the team does a nose dive (particularly Fitz's play) or in garbage time. You may think that Fitz is the worst QB ever; you may think that Geno is the greatest thing since sliced bread. It doesn't matter. While he is healthy and the Jets are winning Fitz is the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Fitz absolutely should be the qb but how do we only score 23 points on that crappy defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 It is a sad commentary on this board when I am surprised to see the proper use of moot (instead of mute) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 This is all a moot point. The team is 4-2; They are favorites to win next week and are likely to win 4 out of the next 5 games AND your QB isn't loosing the games for you (regardless of what people say about his arm strength). You just don't change QBs at this point. Even the great BB didn't bench a struggling Drew Bledsoe and he actually had a future HOF QB on the bench. It just isn't going to happen. The only way Geno sees the field this year is if Fitz gets hurt, the team does a nose dive (particularly Fitz's play) or in garbage time. You may think that Fitz is the worst QB ever; you may think that Geno is the greatest thing since sliced bread. It doesn't matter. While he is healthy and the Jets are winning Fitz is the QB. I don't actually disagree with that. Bowles won't make a change until he has to. But he should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Right? It's as if Rivers has been some scrub for a while and is only getting questioned now. People here want to demand perfection from a position which, by its very nature, lacks perfection more than any other position. Not everyone can be Aaron Rodgers. Turnovers and bad games happen. actually the argument has deteriorated beyond belief. The original point was we need to watch out this week the Raiders made Rivers look bad. I take that as a compliment to Rivers. Not a knock on his abilities. I agree they made a really good QB look like total shlt. Anyone who,thinks his numbers from the game proves anything didn't watch the game, he padded his numbers in garbage time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 10-6 was my preseason prediction and I am sticking with that. The conversation before this weekend might have been whether or not that number is too low. funny what one loss does to people. The QB or the team, which goes up or down quicker based of the final score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 It's personal with Geno. Many people hate Geno the person as much as Geno the QB. Except for Kristian Dyer (who eventually came around too) everyone thought Geno was significantly better than Fitz in camp, and as much as people want to ignore it, played at a really high level the last few games of the year. People just say he sucks but too many changes for the better on the Jets O for me to just accept that. How many padded practices had the Jets gotten in prior to the punch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 funny what one loss does to people. The QB or the team, which goes up or down quicker based of the final score? that is how it is, watch how many jump ship if we lose to a quality Oak team on the road this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 that is how it is, watch how many jump ship if we lose to a quality Oak team on the road this week. But it's not how it should be. Fitz has been good, doesn't deserve to have his head in a noose after every loss. I wanted to see Geno get his chance with talent and this OC but Fitz has done what a good player should do, get his chance and run with it. Unless he strings a few bad games together it's his job. But that also doesn't mean we put our heads in the sand and refuse to admit he was god awful against a team as he was vs. Philly when he sucked it up horribly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 that is how it is, watch how many jump ship if we lose to a quality Oak team on the road this week. Forget the 82nd Airborne no one bails out like Jet fans.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 But it's not how it should be. Fitz has been good, doesn't deserve to have his head in a noose after every loss. I wanted to see Geno get his chance with talent and this OC but Fitz has done what a good player should do, get his chance and run with it. Unless he strings a few bad games together it's his job. But that also doesn't mean we put our heads in the sand and refuse to admit he was god awful against a team as he was vs. Philly when he sucked it up horribly. I agree w/ you and I am partially to blame. I didn't get on him this week but I did bash him after Philly and after some of the wins. I like him, I want him to succeed but I know he has to be good for us to win- not great but good. the last 2 weeks he has been. If this Fitz shows up most weeks we will be really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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