With Smith Sidelined, is Enunwa new Jets Deep Threat?

[nyjunc]

Thompkins was playing pretty well before Enunwa came back and basically took his snaps.  I don't think Thompkins is a deep threat but it's good news he'll be getting more PT.

[Powpow]

Threat and Devin Smith in the same sentence is a hysterical notion. 

Nothing like a non-threatening deep threat to scare the living wits out of you.  Oh Nooooooo

[bealeb319]

Smith was the only potential deep threat on this team, but he had absolutely no chemistry with Fitzpatrick

 

Enunwa is trash, you can't count on him. He can't catch a cold. They should just list him as a TE, since his main contribution is blocking

I'm hoping Tompkins can step up. Kerley would be my ideal 3rd guy, but for some reason this coaching staff doesn't seem to like him much

 

With Fitzpatrick not having the strongest arm, maybe a deep threat isn't necessary

What ever happened to Tompkins he had two decent games with us then just kinda disappeared. Don't remember him getting injured.

[BUM-KNEE]

Per Rotoworld,

Jeremy Kerley (calf) did not practice Wednesday.

Kerley's Week 15 status is up in the air. With Devin Smith (ACL) sidelined, Kenbrell Thompkins should see time in four-wide sets.

 

 

 

[j4jets]

Deep threat? More like deepthroat cuz he sucked balls!

[AFJF]

Then blame Glenn.  I quoted the 4.4  from his article.    

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpbvhCmuJKQ

[AFJF]

Enunwa is not faster than Smith.  Enunwa ran a 4.45.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpbvhCmuJKQ

 

[Jet Nut]

I think Owusu was the #1 deep threat.  Then when he went down Smith came back.  They do seem to want a speed guy around.  

I think of him more running up the seam.

I meant at the time of Smiths injury.  Owusu was a nice story but his concussion history, along with his knee etc, meant he was a real long shot.  

The comment that he never was a deep threat was nonsense.  He was the only deep threat on this roster.  

[flgreen]

What ever happened to Tompkins he had two decent games with us then just kinda disappeared. Don't remember him getting injured.

Gailey mentioned in his presser yesterday that Tompkins would probably get more reps with Smith down

[bealeb319]

Gailey mentioned in his presser yesterday that Tompkins would probably get more reps with Smith down

Thanks, that is nice to hear. I don't think the kid will become an elite monster but if we had a third guy on the field that catches the ball semi reliably it would be nice.

[#27TheDominator]

I meant at the time of Smiths injury.  Owusu was a nice story but his concussion history, along with his knee etc, meant he was a real long shot.  

The comment that he never was a deep threat was nonsense.  He was the only deep threat on this roster.  

I think the argument is that there never was a deep threat on the roster.  Between Fitzpatrick not having the strongest arm and Smith's poor catch rate they weren't scaring people much.  Still, I think the crowd that doesn't see value in the speed, is missing the importance of stretching the D out.  Just like the passing game helps the running game, having a guy that can get up the field in a hurry will force a safety to stay back.  Even a couple of steps makes a huge difference.  Guys like Marshall and Gronkowski can produce deep, but they take longer to get there and pure speed will cause a defense to adjust even absent much production.  Guys like Kerley are helped by having somebody pull coverage deep. 

OTOH, good is good and better slow and good than fast and sucky. 

[Jet Nut]

I think the argument is that there never was a deep threat on the roster.  Between Fitzpatrick not having the strongest arm and Smith's poor catch rate they weren't scaring people much.  Still, I think the crowd that doesn't see value in the speed, is missing the importance of stretching the D out.  Just like the passing game helps the running game, having a guy that can get up the field in a hurry will force a safety to stay back.  Even a couple of steps makes a huge difference.  Guys like Marshall and Gronkowski can produce deep, but they take longer to get there and pure speed will cause a defense to adjust even absent much production.  Guys like Kerley are helped by having somebody pull coverage deep. 

OTOH, good is good and better slow and good than fast and sucky. 

Agree, just lining up a burner and putting that fear into a D and to spread them out is valuable.  He eventually would have developed a chemistry with Fitz, shame

[detectivekimble]

The threat of scoring on any given play exists on any given play. Devin Smith "giving" us that threat is a fallacy. The Patriots get that from Gronk, the Vikings get it from Adrian Peterson. The threat to score on any given play exists when you have great players. It's not dependent upon "deep ballz".

No, Rob Gronkowski is not going to take one 80 yards to the house unless defenders run into each other and/or fall and slip.  Gronkowski hadn't had a 60+ yard reception until this year, when, of course, two Giants defenders ran into each other and gave Gronk a free run to the end zone.

There's a reason why the Jets were starting Smith and Marshall on the outside with Decker in the slot, despite the fact that Kerley is better than Smith at this stage.

[Integrity28]

No, Rob Gronkowski is not going to take one 80 yards to the house unless defenders run into each other and/or fall and slip.  Gronkowski hadn't had a 60+ yard reception until this year, when, of course, two Giants defenders ran into each other and gave Gronk a free run to the end zone.

There's a reason why the Jets were starting Smith and Marshall on the outside with Decker in the slot, despite the fact that Kerley is better than Smith at this stage.

Pretty sure Gronk leads the league in TDs over the past few season, no?

Oh, but he's not going to score from 80 yards out. How many 80 yard TDs are scored each year.

Yeah, this is a polite way of calling this argument ******* stupid.

[joewilly12]

Who took Smiths roster spot? 

[Jet Nut]

At this point, given how well we can move the ball through the air with Decker and Marshall, I don't think the outcry should be for "deep ballz", but rather for Ivory to go back to being Ivory. He's still not really back to form since that first run vs. the Patriots. He's looked better, but still not the guy we saw in the quarter of the season. 

I actually love the fact that the offense has evolved from the point where it stalled during our losses. Ivory cannot run, and we don't have a clear-cut #3 WR? Compensate for both by using Powell in the passing game. Frankly, I think the mid-season shifts we're seeing from our offense are very underrated and not getting enough credit. For a few games, opponents figured us out. We adjusted. No Jet offense in recent memory had the personnel or coaching to do that.

The threat of the long ball is important.  Whether they actually call for a deep pass or not.

In SB III Maynard was hurt and shouldn't have been on the field.  Namath threw to him once, just to show it and used a lame Maynard as a decoy the whole game.  Maynard didn't see another ball, didn't have a catch.

But the Colts had to watch for him every play.

[Integrity28]

The threat of the long ball is important.  Whether they actually call for a deep pass or not.

In SB III Maynard was hurt and shouldn't have been on the field.  Namath threw to him once, just to show it and used a lame Maynard as a decoy the whole game.  Maynard didn't see another ball, didn't have a catch.

But the Colts had to watch for him every play.

I know the threat is important, but you guys are grossly overstating the role of it as a frequency of happening variable. It just doesn't happen a lot. You can establish the threat of a deep pass by throwing the ball deep a few times a game, it's not reliant upon the 40 speed of a rookie WR. Based on statistics, a deep pass is just about anything over 20 yards. You're lying to yourself if you don't think a chunk of the 20+ targets per game to Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker being passes over 20 yards is scarier to a defense than 1-2 passes a game to Devin Smith.

This whole "deep ball" narrative, and the way it has been tied to the presence of Devin Smith is laughable. You guys are speaking in ESPN-isms.

The deep passing game is established for the Jets, and the primary threat on any offensive snap is NOT Devin Smith, it is Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker. What you guys are pining for is the fluky 50+ yard bombs-away bullsh*t that you assume needs to be a "big" part of the offense, because Madden.

You take shots down the field. We didn't lose that ability, or that threat, when Devin Smith got injured.

[flgreen]

Who took Smiths roster spot? 

He hasn't been IR'ed yet

[NYJCAP2]

Smith was the only potential deep threat on this team, but he had absolutely no chemistry with Fitzpatrick

 

Enunwa is trash, you can't count on him. He can't catch a cold. They should just list him as a TE, since his main contribution is blocking

I'm hoping Tompkins can step up. Kerley would be my ideal 3rd guy, but for some reason this coaching staff doesn't seem to like him much

 

With Fitzpatrick not having the strongest arm, maybe a deep threat isn't necessary

They are using Enunwa that way already, and shows exactly what his value is. I heard a stat today the the Jets run more 3&4 WR sets than anyone in the NFL, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a pass play. Enunwa is that H-back/TE/WR and helps desguise the play call, and I think he creates a lot of mismatches; too big for corners, too fast for LBs and safteys.

[NYJCAP2]

double post

 

[Jet Nut]

I know the threat is important, but you guys are grossly overstating the role of it as a frequency of happening variable. It just doesn't happen a lot. You can establish the threat of a deep pass by throwing the ball deep a few times a game, it's not reliant upon the 40 speed of a rookie WR. Based on statistics, a deep pass is just about anything over 20 yards. You're lying to yourself if you don't think a chunk of the 20+ targets per game to Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker being passes over 20 yards is scarier to a defense than 1-2 passes a game to Devin Smith.

This whole "deep ball" narrative, and the way it has been tied to the presence of Devin Smith is laughable. You guys are speaking in ESPN-isms.

The deep passing game is established for the Jets, and the primary threat on any offensive snap is NOT Devin Smith, it is Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker. What you guys are pining for is the fluky 50+ yard bombs-away bullsh*t that you assume needs to be a "big" part of the offense, because Madden.

You take shots down the field. We didn't lose that ability, or that threat, when Devin Smith got injured.

No, youre missing the point that a Devon Smith can take any pass the length of the field.  Marshall and Decker cant say that.  Not laughable.  You're confusing deep threat and the ability to blow past DBs with bombs downfield.  

 

[Integrity28]

No, youre missing the point that a Devon Smith can take any pass the length of the field.  Marshall and Decker cant say that.  Not laughable.  You're confusing deep threat and the ability to blow past DBs with bombs downfield.  

 

No, sorry bud, I'm not confused. Devin Smith had a hard time catching passes, let alone "blowing by DBs with bombs downfield". 

You are over-valuing a play that works more often in Madden than in real football. Do some ******* research. Opposing defensive coordinators aren't losing sleep over Devin Smith, because he's fast. They lose sleep over Decker and Marshall, because they know how to get open underneath and deep. Being "fast" is not the only pre-requisite to having a deep passing game. You, and the others whining about this, are just wrong. You put too much stock in ESPN-isms, like "deep balls" and "take the lid off", and equate it to "fast guy does that", but if you watch any football at all, you'd see that the pure speed guys just aren't that big a deal. If you combine speed with quickness, technique, and ******* awesome... then you get guys like Antonio Brown, who are flat out special.

Devin Smith is no Antonio Brown.

Devin Smith is like a poor man's version of someone like Torrey Smith or Desean Jackson. Except he showed no evidence of being any better than Stephen Hill.

Devin Smith gave us the ability to throw incomplete passes 30 yards down the field. We can do that sh*t with Kenbrell Thompkins or pretty much anyone else we throw out there.

[pdxgreen]

We've had a deep threat this year? I didn't even think we had a TE?

[Jet Nut]

No, sorry bud, I'm not confused. Devin Smith had a hard time catching passes, let alone "blowing by DBs with bombs downfield". 

You are over-valuing a play that works more often in Madden than in real football. Do some ******* research. Opposing defensive coordinators aren't losing sleep over Devin Smith, because he's fast. They lose sleep over Decker and Marshall, because they know how to get open underneath and deep. Being "fast" is not the only pre-requisite to having a deep passing game. You, and the others whining about this, are just wrong. You put too much stock in ESPN-isms, like "deep balls" and "take the lid off", and equate it to "fast guy does that", but if you watch any football at all, you'd see that the pure speed guys just aren't that big a deal. If you combine speed with quickness, technique, and ******* awesome... then you get guys like Antonio Brown, who are flat out special.

Devin Smith is no Antonio Brown.

Devin Smith is like a poor man's version of someone like Torrey Smith or Desean Jackson. Except he showed no evidence of being any better than Stephen Hill.

Devin Smith gave us the ability to throw incomplete passes 30 yards down the field. We can do that sh*t with Kenbrell Thompkins or pretty much anyone else we throw out there.

obviously keep missing the point.  This is silly.  90% of this is your continuing to not grasp spreading the field and what it means, not some ESPNism, whatever

[Integrity28]

obviously keep missing the point.  This is silly.  90% of this is your continuing to not grasp spreading the field and what it means, not some ESPNism, whatever

I'm not the one having a hard time here. You are arguing that Devin Smith was the lynchpin to us being able to "score from anywhere on the field", then you changed it to "throw bombs", now you are changing it to "spread the field". Those are in fact, and in every way, cliché remarks that ESPN fills their broadcasts with instead of making meaningful comments.

Devin Smith was not, at any point this season, the key to (or sole enabler of) any aspect of this offense.

You want to score from anywhere on the field? Get the ball to your elite players in space, and block for them. Decker and Marshall, maybe Ivory will do that for you... not a rookie who cannot catch the ball. 

You want to throw bombs? Design plays that exploit matchups and throw bombs. Being the fastest guy in the WR corps is nice, but it's not the sole requirement to throw the ball 50+ yards down the field. 

You want to spread the field? Run more 4 WR sets, use screens, line up your top talent all over the place... which we do, and have done whether or not Devin Smith is part of the offense.

 

[Jet Nut]

I'm not the one having a hard time here. You are arguing that Devin Smith was the lynchpin to us being able to "score from anywhere on the field", then you changed it to "throw bombs", now you are changing it to "spread the field". Those are in fact, and in every way, cliché remarks that ESPN fills their broadcasts with instead of making meaningful comments.

Devin Smith was not, at any point this season, the key to (or sole enabler of) any aspect of this offense.

You want to score from anywhere on the field? Get the ball to your elite players in space, and block for them. Decker and Marshall, maybe Ivory will do that for you... not a rookie who cannot catch the ball. 

You want to throw bombs? Design plays that exploit matchups and throw bombs. Being the fastest guy in the WR corps is nice, but it's not the sole requirement to throw the ball 50+ yards down the field. 

You want to spread the field? Run more 4 WR sets, use screens, line up your top talent all over the place... which we do, and have done whether or not Devin Smith is part of the offense.

 

lynchpin? Hey if you make him more important than things like decoy, a help in spreading the field etc, you're really off on a tangent.  It was a simple point that you want debate to death.  He helped spread the field, what your agenda is for denying this who knows. Im done with this silly argument you're trying to make.  

[Integrity28]

lynchpin? Hey if you make him more important than things like decoy, a help in spreading the field etc, you're really off on a tangent.  It was a simple point that you want debate to death.  He helped spread the field, what your agenda is for denying this who knows. Im done with this silly argument you're trying to make.  

Read the thread. 

You argued earlier that "we need someone who can score from anywhere on the field". Now you're saying all we needed Devin for was to be a "decoy". 

The sentiment being expressed by you and others is that when we lost Devin, we lost [whatever cliché from ESPN you want to use next] from our offense. 

You're done with the argument, because you lost it. 

[whodeawhodat]

I'm not the one having a hard time here. You are arguing that Devin Smith was the lynchpin to us being able to "score from anywhere on the field", then you changed it to "throw bombs", now you are changing it to "spread the field". Those are in fact, and in every way, cliché remarks that ESPN fills their broadcasts with instead of making meaningful comments.

Devin Smith was not, at any point this season, the key to (or sole enabler of) any aspect of this offense.

You want to score from anywhere on the field? Get the ball to your elite players in space, and block for them. Decker and Marshall, maybe Ivory will do that for you... not a rookie who cannot catch the ball. 

You want to throw bombs? Design plays that exploit matchups and throw bombs. Being the fastest guy in the WR corps is nice, but it's not the sole requirement to throw the ball 50+ yards down the field. 

You want to spread the field? Run more 4 WR sets, use screens, line up your top talent all over the place... which we do, and have done whether or not Devin Smith is part of the offense.

 

Its called taking the top off of the defense, dont be getting a big head just because you are now typing on Jetnation while wearing your autographed Big Cat Williiam Jets Helmet!!!

Grats Mang!!!!

[Jet Nut]

Read the thread. 

You argued earlier that "we need someone who can score from anywhere on the field". Now you're saying all we needed Devin for was to be a "decoy". 

The sentiment being expressed by you and others is that when we lost Devin, we lost [whatever cliché from ESPN you want to use next] from our offense. 

You're done with the argument, because you lost it. 

Honestly you don't even have a clue what you're arguing.  Never mind thinking you won the argument. I've moved on because you don't get the argument or WRs and offense. 

[Integrity28]

Honestly you don't even have a clue what you're arguing.  Never mind thinking you won the argument. I've moved on because you don't get the argument or WRs and offense. 

You've moved on?

You speak in clichés and can't back them up. Don't get sour about it.

Honestly though, I don't know what our offense is going to do without the decoy of a deep ball spread the field bomb threat. Ridiculous.

[FidelioJet]

Ultimately this means Kerley plays more and that's a good thing.  

While not super fast. He can still be a deep threat.  He catches the ball - so he has to get attention.  

 

[#27TheDominator]

You've moved on?

You speak in clichés and can't back them up. Don't get sour about it.

Honestly though, I don't know what our offense is going to do without the decoy of a deep ball spread the field bomb threat. Ridiculous.

I agree with you that the value of a deep threat may be overstated, but I strongly disagree that it is a cliché and not a real "thing" in the NFL.  Somebody did an analysis a couple of years ago with all-22 film about how even when Stephen Hill wasn't catching the ball, safeties were being forced to roll towards his side.  The actual difference may be subtle, but speed does have an effect. It certainly helps the guys underneath

[Jet Nut]

You've moved on?

You speak in clichés and can't back them up. Don't get sour about it.

Honestly though, I don't know what our offense is going to do without the decoy of a deep ball spread the field bomb threat. Ridiculous.

Honestly, where did I ever say the offense would suffer?  Find it for me.  Then find a way anyone's point here can be backed up.  Lol.  

Best way for some to argue their argument is to give an over the top, ridiculous point like this.  You're flailing, give up already.  I should have long ago.  Forgot it's a beat the wrong horse to death fan who feels like arguing that a 3 or 4 WR on a team that runs the most 4 WR sets in the league wouldn't miss their only deep threat.  Makes so much sense.  Argue that, then tell people how you'll win that argument. 

[Jet Nut]

I agree with you that the value of a deep threat may be overstated, but I strongly disagree that it is a cliché and not a real "thing" in the NFL.  Somebody did an analysis a couple of years ago with all-22 film about how even when Stephen Hill wasn't catching the ball, safeties were being forced to roll towards his side.  The actual difference may be subtle, but speed does have an effect. It certainly helps the guys underneath

That's the point, not that we're heading into an offensive fall off. 

[Integrity28]

I agree with you that the value of a deep threat may be overstated, but I strongly disagree that it is a cliché and not a real "thing" in the NFL.  Somebody did an analysis a couple of years ago with all-22 film about how even when Stephen Hill wasn't catching the ball, safeties were being forced to roll towards his side.  The actual difference may be subtle, but speed does have an effect. It certainly helps the guys underneath

Of course speed has an effect. I just think it is marginal, and can be compensated for if you don't have it. Especially in the context of the rebuttals Jet Nut made.