Position by Position: Cuts, re-signings and needs

[Doggin94it]

None of those guys are good comps for Fitz, though.  They fall into a few groups:

1) Established veteran starters with SB victories (Flacco, Manning, Manning, Wilson, Brady);

2) Established veteran starters with excellent statistics (Rivers, Romo, Ryan, Stafford, Palmer everyone in group 1 other than Flacco)

3) Young guns teams view as the QB of the future (Stafford, Tannehill, Wilson, Dalton)

4) Jay Cutler.

Fitz doesn't fit into any of those categories.  He's not an established vet starter with a long track record of success (playoff or statistical), nobody is looking at him as the QB of the future, and he's not getting signed by Chicago.  He's a classic bridge QB, a journeyman you won't be embarrassed to start but kind of hope you won't have to - in other words, in the Hoyer/McCown range.  Those are the comps that really apply to Fitz, and while his year this year probably sets him above what they got, it's not by much.

I hope you're right, but only a fairly significant hometown discount would put him below that range I

MO.  If you're a starter in this league, the floor for what you make is high.  Look at the 2016 cap number for these QB's, who all received contract extensions fairly recently:

Joe Flacco:  $28.6M

Eli Manning:  $24.2M

Matt Ryan:  $23.8M

Matthew Stafford:  $22.5M

Peyton Manning:  $21.5M

Phillip Rivers:  $21M

Tony Romo:  $20.1M

Carson Palmer:  $19M

Russell Wilson:  $18.5M

Jay Cutler:  $17M

Tom Brady:  $15M

Andy Dalton:  $13.1M

Ryan Tannehill:  $11.6M

 

Granted, Nick Foles is at $8.8M and Brian Hoyer has a $5.3M cap hit next year.  And no one will argue Fitz should be considered of higher value than a lot of those names.  But there's no way he's accepting Foles or Hoyer money, and there's no way we end up devoting less than, say $7-8M of 2016 cap dollars to Fitz even if the deal is back-loaded.

 

[UnitedWhofans]

I think the one area we mind spend on FA is for someone like Bruce Irvin.  Drafting any linebackers should be someone like a Reggie Ragland or a Scooby Wright in the 1st to help the ILB position.  I don't like the idea of drafting a RB in the 1st.  For every AP that goes in the 1st, I bet there are two Trent Richardson's......

This year and next year are great drafts for RB. Powell being out changed our whole offense, not just play calls but playing time for Ivory and Ridley

[joewilly12]

I have issue with you constantly bashing our QB all year long trying to be "that guy" who knew he sucked ...well he didn't suck he played great and I think hes had that in him his whole career just never got the opportunity to prove it playing with sh*t head teams. There is a thin line in the NFL some QB's just go into bad situations you know teams like Cleveland or teams that just get that so called franchise guy then NEVER surround him with any talent worth a crap kind of like we di with Sanchez. We are one of those teams and we got a guy who went out and put up numbers we have never seen in our lives other than one season with Vinny and one with Joe Willy and all you did was come in here and bitch and complain.

In regards to saying keep your opinion to yourself ...I was playing with you, joking around I take plenty of it as well and to be honest it should all be in good fun so I hope I didn't insult you too much just have fun with it bro.

I am a fan with an OPINION nothing more. Fitzpatrick is a journeyman QB who has never won anything throughout his entire career he had a magical year here it was fun while it lasted I enjoyed it you enjoyed it we all enjoyed it, 

He faltered when it  mattered the most and that sucks for all of us. In the end we won 10 games and are sitting home for the playoffs. 

 

[Smashmouth]

Good post.  I'm just going to adjust this a bit, working with your numbers. Changes in bold
 

Pretty much agree with the rest of this,

 

Doggin I agree with a lot of what you said but I'm kind of baffled at you wanting to keep Geno on the roster. If you think this may not be the year the Jets look for a QB in the 3-5 round range then ok but I think they might is someone they are looking at falls.

Im also of the opinion Harrision is the most important part of the Jets DL based on our 3-4 scheme no doubt in my mind

[jetrider]

@ Jetsfan80:

Nice post, but there's no logic in keeping Dee Milliner. Even at minimum wage he'll give nothing in return, has no willpower to play. It reached the point where his injuries and illnesses are hard to believe. He's a confirmed bust, IMO, a payroll hole in the pocket.

Not looking forward to our annual QB competition, but it's somewhat suicidal to hitch our wagon to Fitz with only inexperienced unknowns behind him. Given that and the usual offseason rotation of career JAGs, Geno is sadly the best backup option at any angle. What do you mean the Jets did not draft him?

[Jetsfan80]

None of those guys are good comps for Fitz, though.  They fall into a few groups:

1) Established veteran starters with SB victories (Flacco, Manning, Manning, Wilson, Brady);

2) Established veteran starters with excellent statistics (Rivers, Romo, Ryan, Stafford, Palmer everyone in group 1 other than Flacco)

3) Young guns teams view as the QB of the future (Stafford, Tannehill, Wilson, Dalton)

4) Jay Cutler.

Fitz doesn't fit into any of those categories.  He's not an established vet starter with a long track record of success (playoff or statistical), nobody is looking at him as the QB of the future, and he's not getting signed by Chicago.  He's a classic bridge QB, a journeyman you won't be embarrassed to start but kind of hope you won't have to - in other words, in the Hoyer/McCown range.  Those are the comps that really apply to Fitz, and while his year this year probably sets him above what they got, it's not by much.

Fitz coming back at Hoyer money would be simply awesome.  It would free us up to make a lot of other roster-building moves.  My assumption that Fitz will be getting Foles money drove a lot of the other decisions I made elsewhere.

[joewilly12]

Nice post, but there's no logic in keeping Dee Milliner. Even at minimum wage he'll give nothing in return, has no willpower to play. It reached the point where his injuries and illnesses are hard to believe. He's a confirmed bust, IMO, a payroll hole in the pocket.

Not looking forward to our annual QB competition, but it's somewhat suicidal to hitch our wagon to Fitz with only inexperienced unknowns behind him. Given that and the usual offseason rotation of career JAGs, Geno is sadly the best backup option at any angle. What do you mean the Jets did not draft him?

Agree we need to cut our ties to Milliner and just consider it another draft day bust in the long history of them, 

[Jetsfan80]

Nice post, but there's no logic in keeping Dee Milliner. Even at minimum wage he'll give nothing in return, has no willpower to play. It reached the point where his injuries and illnesses are hard to believe. He's a confirmed bust, IMO, a payroll hole in the pocket.

Not looking forward to our annual QB competition, but it's somewhat suicidal to hitch our wagon to Fitz with only inexperienced unknowns behind him. Given that and the usual offseason rotation of career JAGs, Geno is sadly the best backup option at any angle. What do you mean the Jets did not draft him?

Mistype.  That should have read "The current regime did not draft him".  It won't let me edit at this point.

[Jetsfan80]

Keeping Harrison and letting Wilkerson walk is an interesting perspective.  My only argument against it is that Wilkerson has the ability to play every position on the D-Line effectively.  I guess it all depends on how Bowles wants to operate on the line going forward and how the broken leg impacts things.  Harrison is an elite NT but I don't think he has elite VALUE to the team/league like Wilkerson does. 

Tough decisions for sure.

[CrazyCarl40]

Agree we need to cut our ties to Milliner and just consider it another draft day bust in the long history of them, 

Doesn't save the Jets money and that would be 3 losses to CB in Cro, Walls, and now Milliner, so that would create another need. Might as well keep him around.

[Jetsfan80]

Doesn't save the Jets money and that would be 3 losses to CB in Cro, Walls, and now Milliner, so that would create another need. Might as well keep him around.

It would actually save $4M in cap space by cutting Milliner.  Hard to totally rule out the possibility of us moving on from him.

[maury77]

Shaq Evans is on the Jaguars now and Owusu was cut mid season. 

[joewilly12]

It would actually save $4M in cap space by cutting Milliner.  Hard to totally rule out the possibility of us moving on from him.

Its time to move on from him bad draft pick. 

[Jet Nut]

I hope you're right, but only a fairly significant hometown discount would put him below that range IMO.  If you're a starting QB in this league, the floor for what you make is high.  Look at the 2016 cap number for these QB's, who all received contract extensions fairly recently:

Joe Flacco:  $28.6M

Eli Manning:  $24.2M

Matt Ryan:  $23.8M

Matthew Stafford:  $22.5M

Peyton Manning:  $21.5M

Phillip Rivers:  $21M

Tony Romo:  $20.1M

Carson Palmer:  $19M

Russell Wilson:  $18.5M

Jay Cutler:  $17M

Tom Brady:  $15M

Andy Dalton:  $13.1M

Ryan Tannehill:  $11.6M

 

Granted, Nick Foles is at $8.8M and Brian Hoyer has a $5.3M cap hit next year.  And no one will argue Fitz should be considered of higher value than a lot of those names.  But there's no way he's accepting Foles or Hoyer money, and there's no way we end up devoting less than, say $7-8M of 2016 cap dollars to Fitz even if the deal is back-loaded.

 

For one I don't know what this list means because as we all know some of these deals are loaded so you have to use average per as the guideline. 

 

[CrazyCarl40]

It would actually save $4M in cap space by cutting Milliner.  Hard to totally rule out the possibility of us moving on from him.

According to this:

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets/

Milliner cut would be all dead money.

[Jet Nut]

I hope you're right, but only a fairly significant hometown discount would put him below that range IMO.  If you're a starting QB in this league, the floor for what you make is high.  Look at the 2016 cap number for these QB's, who all received contract extensions fairly recently:

Joe Flacco:  $28.6M

Eli Manning:  $24.2M

Matt Ryan:  $23.8M

Matthew Stafford:  $22.5M

Peyton Manning:  $21.5M

Phillip Rivers:  $21M

Tony Romo:  $20.1M

Carson Palmer:  $19M

Russell Wilson:  $18.5M

Jay Cutler:  $17M

Tom Brady:  $15M

Andy Dalton:  $13.1M

Ryan Tannehill:  $11.6M

 

Granted, Nick Foles is at $8.8M and Brian Hoyer has a $5.3M cap hit next year.  And no one will argue Fitz should be considered of higher value than a lot of those names.  But there's no way he's accepting Foles or Hoyer money, and there's no way we end up devoting less than, say $7-8M of 2016 cap dollars to Fitz even if the deal is back-loaded.

 

Can't edit, so.  Most on that list are better or turned wins or potential into the contracts they got.  

[Jetsfan80]

According to this:

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets/

Milliner cut would be all dead money.

You are correct, I read that as the opposite.  Keeping him around until he hits free agency in 2016 is the only decision to make there.

[Doggin94it]

Agree we need to cut our ties to Milliner and just consider it another draft day bust in the long history of them, 

Cutting Dee Milliner saves us exactly $0 in cap and leaves us with $4M in dead money for him.  It's not happening.

[joewilly12]

Cutting Dee Milliner saves us exactly $0 in cap and leaves us with $4M in dead money for him.  It's not happening.

Then he's nothing more to us than a player taking up a roster spot he cant stay healthy enough to ever play for this team, 

[Paradis]

Then he's nothing more to us than a player taking up a roster spot he cant stay healthy enough to ever play for this team, 

To be fair, i think we need to see where he's at after this offseason. He's yet to really be 100% healthy for OTA/TC.. that in itself is an issue, but there's no reason to not see where is by the end of August. He does have some playmaking chops, but we haven't seen it put together. 

 

[Doggin94it]

Doggin I agree with a lot of what you said but I'm kind of baffled at you wanting to keep Geno on the roster. If you think this may not be the year the Jets look for a QB in the 3-5 round range then ok but I think they might is someone they are looking at falls.

Im also of the opinion Harrision is the most important part of the Jets DL based on our 3-4 scheme no doubt in my mind

There's no upside to cutting Geno.  You aren't getting a veteran backup for what he currently costs, and it makes no sense to sink more resources into a position you hope never sees the field.  Add that to the fact that Geno was actually looking better in TC and that sitting for a year may help him reach his potential (and he does have potential), and the only way I'd consider cutting him is if a QB we absolutely had to draft fell into our laps.  Barring that, the smart play is to go into next year with a depth chart of Fitz-Geno-Petty, put work into developing Petty (that's why we drafted him), and plan to head into 2017 with a depth chart that reads Fitz-Petty-2017 Developmental Draft Pick (with the hope that Petty can actually challenge Fitz for the job that year or that Fitz is so good in 2016 that becomes impossible).

In other words - can the Jets upgrade from Geno as the backup QB? Yes. Should they? No, not considering the resources they would need to spend.  It's a lot of investment for a minimal return.

[joewilly12]

To be fair, i think we need to see where he's at after this offseason. He's yet to really be 100% healthy for OTA/TC.. that in itself is an issue, but there's no reason to not see where is by the end of August. He does have some playmaking chops, but we haven't seen it put together. 

 

I agree in the short stints he played he looked like a viable CB but this is the NFL and if you cant stay healthy its next man up.

[Jetsfan80]

There's no upside to cutting Geno.  You aren't getting a veteran backup for what he currently costs, and it makes no sense to sink more resources into a position you hope never sees the field.  Add that to the fact that Geno was actually looking better in TC and that sitting for a year may help him reach his potential (and he does have potential), and the only way I'd consider cutting him is if a QB we absolutely had to draft fell into our laps.  Barring that, the smart play is to go into next year with a depth chart of Fitz-Geno-Petty, put work into developing Petty (that's why we drafted him), and plan to head into 2017 with a depth chart that reads Fitz-Petty-2017 Developmental Draft Pick (with the hope that Petty can actually challenge Fitz for the job that year or that Fitz is so good in 2016 that becomes impossible).

In other words - can the Jets upgrade from Geno as the backup QB? Yes. Should they? No, not considering the resources they would need to spend.  It's a lot of investment for a minimal return.

 

I would certainly keep Geno until the draft.  But you have to remember that roster spots will be pretty important, and if there are plans to make Petty the # 2, that makes Geno's spot on the roster highly vulnerable.  If we bring back Fitz and draft a QB, it is highly unlikely we keep 4 QB's around.

[Doggin94it]

Then he's nothing more to us than a player taking up a roster spot he cant stay healthy enough to ever play for this team, 

As the No. 5/6 CB - which is what he is behind Revis, Cro, Williams, and Skrine, and perhaps Walls or McDougle next year - that's the reality.  But his dead money hit means that whoever you are replacing him with would have an effective cap hit of 4M plus that player's salary ... and they are just not likely to be good enough to warrant that.

Frankly, I'll be ecstatic if we can find a rookie minimum type player who is so good they make cutting Milliner a realistic option.  But I doubt it happens.

[Doggin94it]

 

I would certainly keep Geno until the draft.  But you have to remember that roster spots will be pretty important, and if there are plans to make Petty the # 2, that makes Geno's spot on the roster highly vulnerable.  If we bring back Fitz and draft a QB, it is highly unlikely we keep 4 QB's around.

Yes. But we also don't need to draft a QB.  Which is why I keep saying - if a QB they can't pass up drops to them, take him, cut Geno, and move on.  But absent a "we need to draft this guy" type gap on their board between a QB and the next best prospect, I doubt they draft a QB this offseason. 

[bitonti]

There's no upside to cutting Geno. 

the upside is that he never sees the field again

[Jetsfan80]

Yes. But we also don't need to draft a QB.  Which is why I keep saying - if a QB they can't pass up drops to them, take him, cut Geno, and move on.  But absent a "we need to draft this guy" type gap on their board between a QB and the next best prospect, I doubt they draft a QB this offseason. 

It really depends on how they view Petty.  If he's elevated to the backup role, they can easily fill the # 3 slot with a late rounder or UDFA.  It doesn't need to be a top prospect who comes in for the Jets to move on from Geno. 

[joewilly12]

the upside is that he never sees the field again

Yes because Fitzs 3 INTs in 3 possessions weren't as bad if Geno did it right, 

[smaxor5]

Very nice post.  Thanks for sharing!  I agree with everything...MAYBE cut Breno but it might not be worth it. Again, great work

[joewilly12]

Very nice post.  Thanks for sharing!  I agree with everything...MAYBE cut Breno but it might not be worth it. Again, great work

Agree hes a JAG 

[Jetsfan80]

Very nice post.  Thanks for sharing!  I agree with everything...MAYBE cut Breno but it might not be worth it. Again, great work

Breno's post-June 1st cap savings of $4.5M (with just $625K in dead money) looks very expendable.  But with how long it takes to develop OT prospects and our limited free agent dollars, that's a "believe it when I see it" type of move.  We have to be confident we have an upgrade on the roster before cutting ties.  I think after the 2016 season would be the right time to make that decision.

[jetrider]

Then he's nothing more to us than a player taking up a roster spot he cant stay healthy enough to ever play for this team, 

Exactly. The money is burnt either way. Why burn a roster spot too?

[Smashmouth]

I am a fan with an OPINION nothing more. Fitzpatrick is a journeyman QB who has never won anything throughout his entire career he had a magical year here it was fun while it lasted I enjoyed it you enjoyed it we all enjoyed it, 

He faltered when it  mattered the most and that sucks for all of us. In the end we won 10 games and are sitting home for the playoffs. 

 

Rich Gannon , Jim Plunkett, Vinny Testaverde, Drew Brees, All guys where were journeymen yet went to the right situation and excelled, difference is they were beloved by their fans because their team finally got a QB... Jets fans who have not had a QB for 40 + years bash the sh*t out of a guy who threw 31 TD's ran for 2 more and if not for a ton of critical drops probably leads his team to a 12-4 record that's not even including the great 4th quarter perfomance's he had the last half of the season.

Fitz WAS a journeyman no doubt but in my mind he's no longer that journeyman he's the QB of the NY Jets and will continue to be and I'm damn happy he is because if he was not here Geno would have sh*t the bed because contrary to what some here say that's all he's ever done was sh*t the bed even the game he came in to take over for Fitz he showed the same garbage tendencies.

Journeyman don't join a team and throw 31 TD's and completely take over the leadership we've been lacking for so long. I'm fully prepared to see Fitz for the next 2-4 years if he continues to put up numbers like this year you better get used to that as well because no matter who we draft if Fitz continues to throw 30 + TD's and play clutch like he did no one is taking his spot..

[joewilly12]

Rich Gannon , Jim Plunkett, Vinny Testaverde, Drew Brees, All guys where were journeymen yet went to the right situation and excelled, difference is they were beloved by their fans because their team finally got a QB... Jets fans who have not had a QB for 40 + years bash the sh*t out of a guy who threw 31 TD's ran for 2 more and if not for a ton of critical drops probably leads his team to a 12-4 record that's not even including the great 4th quarter perfomance's he had the last half of the season.

Fitz WAS a journeyman no doubt but in my mind he's no longer that journeyman he's the QB of the NY Jets and will continue to be and I'm damn happy he is because if he was not here Geno would have sh*t the bed because contrary to what some here say that's all he's ever done was sh*t the bed even the game he came in to take over for Fitz he showed the same garbage tendencies.

Journeyman don't join a team and throw 31 TD's and completely take over the leadership we've been lacking for so long. I'm fully prepared to see Fitz for the next 2-4 years if he continues to put up numbers like this year you better get used to that as well because no matter who we draft if Fitz continues to throw 30 + TD's and play clutch like he did no one is taking his spot..

Thats your OPINION and its a decent one but Jets fans yearn for a franchise QB who will get the complete job done thats winning a Super Bowl those 31 TDS were all forgotten when he threw 3 INTs in the last 3 possessions yesterday with the game on the line. 

Fitzpatrick gave us all hope and made the 2015-2016 season a fun one but in the end we are watching the playoffs and the Super Bowl again. 

[Powpow]

He's 24 years old and represents a $675,000 cap hit.  Basically the veteran minimum for a player with 3 years of experience.  There's no reason to cut him.

Stacey is nothing special plus he's coming off a bad injury.  Go get Lamar Miller from the Fins - he's a free agent. A game breaker who would be an ideal compliment to Ivory (if he stays) and Powell.  Ridley needs to go camping with Stacey.