Ryan Fitzpatrick: MERGED

[BowlesMovement]

1 minute ago, Maxman said:

I think it has a lot to do with how low the bar has been set on offense here in recent years.

Probably true, Gailey is probably better than the other idiots we have had at OC, but I was not overly impressed with Gailey last year. He had just as easy as a schedule as Fitzpatrick did, and just as many weapons with Marshall and Decker. He constantly stuck to his game plan even when the defense was giving something else to stop it. 

[Warfish]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

If Geno's short career has been a joke what would you call Fitzpatricks long career of failures and numerous teams. 

Better than Geno's.

No one debates that Fitz is NOT a franchise QB.  No one makes excuses for Fitz's failings vs. Buffalo (pointing out his failing was ONE part of an overall team failure does not excuse Fitz).  No one excuses Fitz's inability to lead playoff teams, and no one thinks Fitz is any kind of long-term answer.  Fitz is a Journeyman JAG, thats admitted and a given.  

He just happens to still be vastly better than the rookie-contract-not-even-a-JAG we have in Geno Smith.  Better on the field, in the locker room, and (perhaps most vital) better for our two young QB's.

Well, it is what it is.  Fitz appears headed to retirement, and Geno to the no-competition-required anointment as the Jets #1 QB.  Ok, but the days of excuses are over.

[slats]

11 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Speaking of bullsh*t, the Broncos signed Sanchez over Fitzpatrick because he came much cheaper than Fitzpatrick.  All things being equal, they would have taken Fitz.

So Denver was only interested in Fitz if he came at Mark Sanchez prices? Okay, strong argument there. I'd happily take Fitz back at $4.5M/year, too, for the record. 

And while I'm on the record, the league year started on March 9, and Denver traded fro Sanchez on March 11. I think they were pretty interested regardless of Fitzpatrick's demands. 

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Probably true, Gailey is probably better than the other idiots we have had at OC, but I was not overly impressed with Gailey last year. He had just as easy as a schedule as Fitzpatrick did, and just as many weapons with Marshall and Decker. He constantly stuck to his game plan even when the defense was giving something else to stop it. 

He game planned on Fitzpatricks weaknesses and strengths and also the easy schedule we only beat 2 teams with winning records. 

Fitzpatrick couldn't throw the long ball teams stacked the box and that hindered the running game Ivory being the bruising back he was had success but paid the ultimate price. 

Im excited to see Gailey game plan for Geno Smith we will know once and for all if Geno Smith is the QB this team desperately needs and wants. 

[Colgateman]

Holy **** this thread is hilarious rn 

[Warfish]

9 hours ago, EM31 said:

Is it possible that our positive feelings about Gailey are the result of us having witnessed his system played by a QB who knows how to get the best out of it and not the other way around?

Just a thought.

2015, with Fitz, was the first time Chan Gailey has produced a Top 10 Offense since 1999, when he was coaching Troy Aikman.  It's been 16 years since Gailey sniffed the top 10.

 

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Better than Geno's.

No one debates that Fitz is NOT a franchise QB.  No one makes excuses for Fitz's failings vs. Buffalo (pointing out his failing was ONE part of an overall team failure does not excuse Fitz).  No one excuses Fitz's inability to lead playoff teams, and no one thinks Fitz is any kind of long-term answer.  Fitz is a Journeyman JAG, thats admitted and a given.  

He just happens to still be vastly better than the rookie-contract-not-even-a-JAG we have in Geno Smith.  Better on the field, in the locker room, and (perhaps most vital) better for our two young QB's.

Well, it is what it is.  Fitz appears headed to retirement, and Geno to the no-competition-required anointment as the Jets #1 QB.  Ok, but the days of excuses are over.

In your opinion. 

Fitzpatrick has had some terrible years go look up his career stats. 

If that were Geno Smith that threw 3 INTs in a row costing a playoff birth how would you be reacting today.

[joewilly12]

Just now, Warfish said:

2015, with Fitz, was the first time Chan Gailey has produced a Top 10 Offense since 1999, when he was coaching Troy Aikman.  It's been 16 years since Gailey sniffed the top 10.

 

So the weak schedule had nothing to do with that? 

[BowlesMovement]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

He game planned on Fitzpatricks weaknesses and strengths and also the easy schedule we only beat 2 teams with winning records. 

Fitzpatrick couldn't throw the long ball teams stacked the box and that hindered the running game Ivory being the bruising back he was had success but paid the ultimate price. 

Im excited to see Gailey game plan for Geno Smith we will know once and for all if Geno Smith is the QB this team desperately needs and wants. 

We will see, I have never been overly impressed with Gailey as a play caller. He runs a pretty QB friendly offense in that it is designed to get rid of the ball very quickly, but his situational playcalling is at times maddening. How many times did he throw a bomb on 3rd and 6 when the bomb is not what Fitzpatrick did best, and is far more accurate in the 10-15 yard range when throwing to Marshall and Decker? How many times did he run up the gut into a box of 8 or 9 guys? I am just not a huge Gailey fan, some games he was decent, but overall I don't think he is a very good OC. Hope I am wrong.

[Warfish]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

In your opinion. 

Fitzpatrick has had some terrible years go look up his career stats. 

If that were Geno Smith that threw 3 INTs in a row costing a playoff birth how would you be reacting today.

And the opinion of every non-Jets objective observer of the NFL.  If you can find me a pro sports writer/ESPN head/sports pro who would publicly say Geno Smith's career is better than Fitz's, by all means, please post it.

Yes, Fitz had some terrible years.  No excuses.  His worst and most terrible years were on par or better than Geno Smiths best year to-date.

If it had been Geno Smith, the three INT's would not have mattered, because we would not have been in a "win and get in" game in the first place.  It would have been the cherry on top of Geno's third year of failure, in my opinion.  Geno would be gone by now, and we'd be starting a Hoyer or a Glennon this year.

[joewilly12]

The fact that the  Jets have approx $2 million left in cap space all but means Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't coming back to QB this team today,tomorrow or next week. 

End of discussion until I see a factual report he is. 

Thanks Fitzpatrick for last season but the 2015 season is over. 

[Integrity28]

9 hours ago, EM31 said:

Is it possible that our positive feelings about Gailey are the result of us having witnessed his system played by a QB who knows how to get the best out of it and not the other way around?

Just a thought.

I saw Tyler Thigpen almost outduel Brett Favre in person. 

Thigpen elevated by Gailey. Favre hindered by Schotty Jr. 

I'm in the "Gailey has earned the reputation he has" camp.

[Savage69]

42 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

And bite the bullet that we have a mediocre QB who cant take a team to the playoffs. 

Kenny O never could win a playoff game and some Jet fans think he was great.. And he played with some fine offensive talent as well.. Looking at their career's Kenny had 128 tds and 98 picks and 0 rushing td's.. Fitz has 154 td's 116 picks and 13 rushing td's..

[joewilly12]

Just now, Savage69 said:

Kenny O never could win a playoff game and some Jet fans think he was great.. And he played with some fine offensive talent as well.. Looking at their career's Kenny had 128 tds and 98 picks and 0 rushing td's.. Fitz has 154 td's 116 picks and 13 rushing td's..

Kenny O was exciting to watch Fitzpatrick up until this past season wasn't. 

 

[Warfish]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

The fact that the  Jets have approx $2 million left in cap space all but means Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't coming back to QB this team today,tomorrow or next week. 

Yes, at this point in time I would agree with that.  The indications as of now certainly imply Fitz is gone, and Geno Smith is will be handed (competition-free) the starting QB job for 2016.

Just now, joewilly12 said:

End of discussion until I see a factual report he is.

Be assured, it's not the end of the discussion.  Macc and Co. will be judged in 2016, in part, by their failure to sign Fitz (or another veteran QB) and their pending decision to hand Geno the starting job without competition. 

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Thanks Fitzpatrick for last season but the 2015 season is over. 

Yes sir, it most certainly is.  Lets hope 2016 isn't over before it begins.

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Kenny O never could win a playoff game and some Jet fans think he was great.. And he played with some fine offensive talent as well.. Looking at their career's Kenny had 128 tds and 98 picks and 0 rushing td's.. Fitz has 154 td's 116 picks and 13 rushing td's..

Since I have a feeling this is aleast aimed in part at me old friend, let me be clear:  Kenny O was exciting, big armed, talented and fun to watch when I was 12.  He was good enough to win in that era, and would have been better behind an O-line that could actually block.

But he was not "great".  

With that said, he won as many Super Bowls as Dan Marino did, so yeah.  I refuse to cry tears over his pick instead of Marino.

[Villain The Foe]

25 minutes ago, roscoeword said:

I always thought Fitz was a pretty good qb, even in Buffalo. Maybe he just needed the right situation; maybe he finally got some weapons and is showing what he is really capable of, instead of the other way around.  He was always a gun slinging type that is also mobile - a poor man's Tony Romo. What's you're opinion on Romo? He is considered a top flight qb but also throws lots of interceptions and has a rep as a choker... do you think he stinks?    

My opinion on Romo is that Fitz and Romo are two different players. Romo could actually sling it because he had a strong enough arm. Fitz never had a deep ball and has inaccuracy issues with intermediate throws. I dont think Fitz is an incompetent QB but he's most certainly a system QB. Romo isnt really a system QB. Romo has also never completed less than 61% of his passes, and twice completed 70% of his passes. 

Romo isnt a mobile QB. Fitz can be considered a mobile QB. 

 

I dont see anything between the two that are comparable, outside of the fact that they play the same position and are injury prone. 

[Villain The Foe]

30 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

If Geno's short career has been a joke what would you call Fitzpatricks long career of failures and numerous teams. 

A long career worthy of excuses because his terrible play didnt come in a Jets uni. 

[Rangers9]

Nobody ever said the Fitz has had a great career but not bad for a 7th round pick of the Rams. Not easy to elevate yourself from a low draft position like that and become a starter which he's done with several teams. He actually played very well when he got chances to start like with the Bengals, the Texans and us. And Buff when he earned a bigger contract. The guy is better than you give him credit for even though you've spent a lot of time digging for stats to prove he sucks. You can do the same for any Qb: find bad stats on them. But the bottom line is the team won last year with him and he had the support of his coaches and teammates plus most of the fans. Our best chance to win in 2016 is with Fitz. Let the team work out the contract. Probably part of this stalemate is that he was dramatically underpaid last season, considering that he was signed as a backup and started and was successful. So he's probably trying to recoup money he didn't get in 2015 and add it in on 2016. I don't know it's just a guess but I hope Mac can get this done soon. 

[slats]

8 hours ago, ljr said:

No,player other than Brady( getting paid on the side) takes less than market value ... It's not fair to hold Fitz to that standard

will the FO & his agent work it out?  I believe so ... But time will tell

And what exactly is Fitz's market value? I don't see anyone else in the market offering any more than the $7-8M the Jets have allegedly offered - and frankly, I think even that is a little high. 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, BowlesMovement said:

Probably true, Gailey is probably better than the other idiots we have had at OC, but I was not overly impressed with Gailey last year. He had just as easy as a schedule as Fitzpatrick did, and just as many weapons with Marshall and Decker. He constantly stuck to his game plan even when the defense was giving something else to stop it. 

This is a legit point of view here. What I will say here is that Gailey has to take into consideration his pieces when changing a gameplan. Think about it. He has to take into consideration that he cannot throw the ball deep. Fitzpatrick was one of the worst deep ball throwers, if not, the worst in the league last year. He also has to take into account that he couldnt throw in the middle of the field. Fitzpatrick was 31st in the league with passes being thrown in the middle of the field. 

 

It's easier to gameplan or alter a gameplan when you have a plethora of options available. However, when  you dont, and the defenses know that you dont then sometimes you just have to gameplan differently, such as "What is your best match up"? Defenses knew that they didnt have to defend the deep ball so all they had to do was congest the short/intermediate passing lanes. The only way that Chan could respond to this was by throwing screens to Powell or letting Marshall manhandle his opponent inbetween the 20's and then let Decker finish them off in the redzone.

He could'nt even respond with a consistent rushing game because after the first month Chris Ivory stopped being a consistent runner, right after that first New England game. which was the exact game that I believe many teams looked at in respects to how to approach the Jets new offense. Concentrate on stopping the run which will put Fitz in a compromising position given that he's a very good short pass guy, but he's inaccurate on intermediate passes and his deep ball is non-existent. 

 

What is Gailey supposed to do? The only thing he could do. Have arguably the best possession receiver and your #1 WR "Will" the ball down the field and put enough attention on him to where Decker kills you with his route running on that deep slant play in the redzone. Spread the defense out, use Marshall's catch radius in the short-to-intermediate game. Throw occasional 50/50 deep balls while betting on Marshall to out muscle his man in one-on-one coverage...etc. 

The funny thing about this is? 

Leodis McKelvin for the Bills understood this and this is precisely why he was able to telegraph and ultimately jump Decker's redzone route while Fitz completely stared him down yet STILL threw the damn football. Thats something if Geno would have done this board would have completely tore him apart on. How do you stare down your target, watch as the defense show that they knew it was coming and you throw the ball anyway? People here wont let go of the "behind the back" fumble in a rookie's 4th ever professional game, yet will be quiet about Fitz 4th quarter in buffalo which was his 112th professional game, 11 years in. 

 

Getting back on topic, having a guy that can extend the field not only can be added to the gameplan but it also allows particular talent to be included too (Devin Smith for example). You can throw 50/50 balls to Marshall because he has the height/size/strength to compete, overpower and win. You have to throw a guy like Devin Smith open. His game speed and ability to track the ball is his quality that he can bring to the field. You wont see that with Fitzpatrick as your QB, so Chan Gailey cant ever change the gameplan to such a style-of-play/player. 

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

And what exactly is Fitz's market value? 

Far less than he's asking for, clearly.

[UpstateJetsGuru]

It's funny that when Fitz goes 10-5 as a starter, he gets little credit....it was the team around him, easy schedule, and Brandon Marshall, who by the way, could have been had by ANY team in the NFL for a mid/late round pick...but when Fitz is surrounded by absolute garbage in Tennessee and Buffalo, he can't win or take a team to the playoffs...guy was 10-5 last season, playing through an injury, with a new coach, new teammates, an aging offensive line, and running game that vanished late in the year. I get it that the guy isn't what people want to see in a "franchise" QB, but if 31 TD's in 15 games and winning two thirds of your games ought to at least get you an AVERAGE type QB contract over 2 years, especially when you consider that the Jets are also paying for a veteran mentor to 2 very raw young QB prospects and also the fact that he has the overwhelming support of his main offensive weapons. I'm sure other potential future free agents are taking note. 

[jetrider]

9 hours ago, EM31 said:

Is it possible that our positive feelings about Gailey are the result of us having witnessed his system played by a QB who knows how to get the best out of it and not the other way around?

Just a thought.

Gailey had more success with more teams, Fitz had less. In fact, 2015 was Fitz's only "successful" .500+ season.

It's only logical Gailey got the most out of Fitz. 

 

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

2015, with Fitz, was the first time Chan Gailey has produced a Top 10 Offense since 1999, when he was coaching Troy Aikman.  It's been 16 years since Gailey sniffed the top 10.

 

Gailey had two 11-5 seasons in Miami, 8th ranked offense in 2001. He spent the next six years at Georgia Tech.

 

[kelly]

saw this..

The draft ended a week ago, without Colin Kaepernick, Sam Bradford, or Ryan Fitzpatrick changing teams. So what happens with each of them in 2016?

Glad you asked. Even if you didn’t.

Bradford wants out of Philly. The Eagles don’t want to trade him. Some think he may retire. Which would likely be a Carson Palmer-style retirement, with Bradford waiting until some other team decides to trade for him.Fitzpatrick wants more from the Jets than the Jets are willing to pay. No one else has offered him anything close to what he wants. At some point, the Jets have to put their best offer on the table (maybe they already have), and Fitzpatrick will have to decide whether he’ll take $0.00 to not play or whatever the Jets are offering.

Of the three situations, the most ambiguous is unfolding (or not) in San Francisco. Nearly three months ago, Kaepernick asked for permission to seek a trade. He met twice with the Broncos; the fact that the 49ers allowed this to happen perhaps says all anyone needs to know about whether the 49ers truly want him back.But Kaepernick wasn’t traded to Denver, the Broncos drafted Paxton Lynch in round one, and there’s apparently no one else interested in Kaepernick.If any of these quarterbacks will be changing teams with meaningful preparation for the coming season, it needs to happen sooner than later. With Phase Three of the offseason program coming, any quarterback who’ll be learning a new offense needs to get started.

The one to watch is Kaepernick. As he moves toward receiving clearance to fully participate in football activities, the 49ers have to decide whether to embrace him or to move on. Once he sets foot on the practice field, Kaepernick is a fluke accident away from landing on injured reserve and costing the 49ers the full $11.9 million for 2016. Trading him would erase all (or at least part) of that responsibility.Assuming there’s no trade partner for Kaepernick (at the point, the Jets or Bills are really the only ones to even remotely consider), the real question is whether the 49ers would simply cut Kaepernick. They’d still owe him the difference between whatever he’d earn elsewhere and the $11.9 million guaranteed salary, but that amount would be less than $11.9 million.

The smart move for each of these three guys at this point would be to make the most of their current situations.

> http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/07/holding-pattern-continues-for-kaepernick-bradford-fitzpatrick/

[Sperm Edwards]

10 hours ago, EM31 said:

Is it possible that our positive feelings about Gailey are the result of us having witnessed his system played by a QB who knows how to get the best out of it and not the other way around?

Just a thought.

Sure it's possible, but Ryan Fitzpatrick is unlikely to be the secret sauce that makes this offense workable, since we've seen several other QBs also show proportionally similar improvements over what they were, before and after Gailey. The hard part is trying to find a QB who didn't have a dramatic uptick in his numbers (and in production in general). 

This time in 2015, Gailey himself was all-in on Geno not Fitz so we heard it right from the horse's mouth. If Gailey actually felt Fitz was tailor-made for his offense, rather than his offense being the one that hides Fitzpatrick's weaknesses the best, I doubt he would have been so much in the not-Fitzpatrick camp himself just 1 year ago.

His offense is designed for QBs with a low on-field IQ, who can't survey the field left to right adequately. The reason Fitz does well - compared to other offenses he's been in - is because he cannot survey the field left to right. Our other sh*tty recent QBs (Geno, Sanchez) had the same handicap. So the idea that keeping 2-3 receivers in his same line of sight would only work with Ryan Fitzpatrick, is not really convincing. 

Here's another example: was Chip Kelly's Eagles offense best workable with Foles or Sanchez? Or did it most noticeably benefit QBs somewhat blind to defenders, by lining the offense up while the eye in the sky could still talk into their helmets? 

[Warfish]

9 minutes ago, jetrider said:

Gailey had two 11-5 seasons in Miami, 8th ranked offense in 2001. He spent the next six years at Georgia Tech.

8th in scoring yes, 21st in Yards.  I was using Yards as my metric for that comment.

So to clarify, Chan last had a top 10 offense in 2001, 14 years ago, for scoring, and in 1999, 16 years ago, for yards.  

And lets be very clear, he went to G.Tech because no one was going to hire him at that time in the NFL.  And his time at Tech was rather pedestrian, going 7-5 quite a few times, with one single 9 win season (vs. 5 loses).

[j4jets]

35 minutes ago, Warfish said:

And the opinion of every non-Jets objective observer of the NFL.  If you can find me a pro sports writer/ESPN head/sports pro who would publicly say Geno Smith's career is better than Fitz's, by all means, please post it.

Yes, Fitz had some terrible years.  No excuses.  His worst and most terrible years were on par or better than Geno Smiths best year to-date.

It is always wise to compare a rookie year and a 2nd year QB with a QB in his 5th and 6th year in the NFL. 

But that probably floats your boat so let's discuss it. Fitz was literally trash the first 5 years.

FITZ: 25 complete games (23 starts), 4104 yards, 21 TD, 27 ints. 

Averaged over 16 games and its 2,626 yards, 13 TDs, 17 ints  

 

GENO: 30 games, 5836 yards, 27 TDs and 35 ints. 

Averaged over 16 games and that's 3,113 yards,  14 TDs, 19 ints.

Pretty identical TD:int ratio but Geno threw significantly more yards. Geno started his entire rookie season throwing for 12 TD to 21picks. Fitz played 4 games his rookie year. His first game was pretty unbelievable throwing for 3TDs n no picks but it was all down the hill from there throwing 1 TD n 7 picks in the next 3 games. Had he played 16 games, he would've set the record for the most ints in a season. He also got a pass (no pun intended of course) the next 2 years and got to learn off the bench while Geno was thrusted with Obama Care reps trying to make it in the NFL as WRs. That's exactly how to groom a rookie QB. 

So as you can see, even if you compare apples to oranges, a sour apple (Geno) was still better than the orange (Fitz). Apples to apples n Fitz doesn't stand a chance no matter how you slice it. 

With pro bowlers at skill position, an 11 year vet Fitz has proven he can be a just below average QB when faced against the leagues worst Ds so kudos to him. 

[EM31]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Sure it's possible, but Ryan Fitzpatrick is unlikely to be the secret sauce that makes this offense workable, since we've seen several other QBs also show proportionally similar improvements over what they were, before and after Gailey. The hard part is trying to find a QB who didn't have a dramatic uptick in his numbers (and in production in general). 

This time in 2015, Gailey himself was all-in on Geno not Fitz so we heard it right from the horse's mouth. If Gailey actually felt Fitz was tailor-made for his offense, rather than his offense being the one that hides Fitzpatrick's weaknesses the best, I doubt he would have been so much in the not-Fitzpatrick camp himself just 1 year ago.

His offense is designed for QBs with a low on-field IQ, who can't survey the field left to right adequately. The reason Fitz does well - compared to other offenses he's been in - is because he cannot survey the field left to right. Our other sh*tty recent QBs (Geno, Sanchez) had the same handicap. So the idea that keeping 2-3 receivers in his same line of sight would only work with Ryan Fitzpatrick, is not really convincing. 

Here's another example: was Chip Kelly's Eagles offense best workable with Foles or Sanchez? Or did it most noticeably benefit QBs somewhat blind to defenders, by lining the offense up while the eye in the sky could still talk into their helmets? 

Or it is a bit of both (Offense and QB benefiting from Gailey and Gailey's offense benefiting from Fitz running it).  This was my point to begin with.

Not sure Gailey was so much "all in" last year on Geno as he was toeing the company line and the preseason decision to start off with the incumbent as the presumed starter before camp.  Certainly after things went south and they had an excuse to go with Fitz there were not any heroic efforts made to bring back Geno once he was healthy again.  That tells me more about what the relative feelings were about the two QBs than anything else.

[jetrider]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

8th in scoring yes, 21st in Yards.  I was using Yards as my metric for that comment.

Points win games not yards, that's why scoring is the better metric.

 

[Savage69]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Since I have a feeling this is aleast aimed in part at me old friend, let me be clear:  Kenny O was exciting, big armed, talented and fun to watch when I was 12.  He was good enough to win in that era, and would have been better behind an O-line that could actually block.

But he was not "great".  

With that said, he won as many Super Bowls as Dan Marino did, so yeah.  I refuse to cry tears over his pick instead of Marino.

Pat Ryan had no problem with that line, the problem with Kenny is he had the mobility of dead snail and held on to the ball too long and never threw it away.. Pigeons thought he was a statue and crapped on him.. Marvin Powell was All Pro as was Joe Fields.. Alexander and Sweeney were good linemen as well. Kenny defenders always blame the line but if Kenny had a quick release like Marino he wouldn't have been sacked like he was.. In the days when QB's could get creamed Namath had 7 rushing td's and he wore braces,Kenny zero.. BTW at least Marino won playoff games and made a Bowl.. But since Bowls are so important Antowain Smith,Cory Dillon and other Pat backs have rings Cumar has 0..

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Savage69 said:

Pat Ryan had no problem with that line, the problem with Kenny is he had the mobility of dead snail and held on to the ball too long and never threw it away.. Pigeons thought he was a statue and crapped on him.. Marvin Powell was All Pro as was Joe Fields.. Alexander and Sweeney were good linemen as well. Kenny defenders always blame the line but if Kenny had a quick release like Marino he wouldn't have been sacked like he was.. In the days when QB's could get creamed Namath had 7 rushing td's and he wore braces,Kenny zero.. BTW at least Marino won playoff games and made a Bowl.. But since Bowls are so important Antowain Smith,Cory Dillon and other Pat backs have rings Cumar has 0..

doesn't kenny o hold a record for most passes thrown without a rushing td?  

[Savage69]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

doesn't kenny o hold a record for most passes thrown without a rushing td?  

Since he never had a rushing td I would think so..

[EM31]

5 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Since he never had a rushing td I would think so..

Didn't he get really really close once late in his career?

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, EM31 said:

Or it is a bit of both (Offense and QB benefiting from Gailey and Gailey's offense benefiting from Fitz running it).  This was my point to begin with.

Not sure Gailey was so much "all in" last year on Geno as he was toeing the company line and the preseason decision to start off with the incumbent as the presumed starter before camp.  Certainly after things went south and they had an excuse to go with Fitz there were not any heroic efforts made to bring back Geno once he was healthy again.  That tells me more about what the relative feelings were about the two QBs than anything else.

He was toeing the opposite of the "company line" which was that there was a real competition between Geno and Fitzpatrick. Gailey was the outlier, who said there was no competition, which broke with the differing company line from Bowles on that same day. 

Again, I take for granted that Gailey would know who would be so singularly suited for his own offense, and there wouldn't have been any handing of the job to Geno if that was the case (let alone with his enthusiasm & blessing). Gailey would have pounded on the Bradway Table that his offense specifically works because of Ryan Fitzpatrick, and will simply not work with Geno or most other QBs who don't fit his offense. His offense is designed to be a "dumbed down" one for QBs who tend to lock in on receivers & can't look right & left without the OL buying them 4-5 seconds of time.

With better (or on-field smarter) QBs, such simplified play design is not necessary; on the contrary it would limit a good QB who is capable of much more. But because Russell Wilson can see more of the field and buy his receivers time with his legs (behind the LOS), that doesn't therefore mean he would do worse than Ryan Fitzpatrick in this offense. Frankly, it's the other way around: Fitz limits an offense but Gailey's offense hides his weaknesses better than most other designs. The flip side to that is the simplicity itself is a limitation, especially against better defenses, which is why every OC with a better/smarter QB & targets at his disposal doesn't employ the this design most of the time.