Buzz: Jets Players Have 'Major' Concerns with Current QB Depth Chart

[jamesr]

9 minutes ago, cant wait said:

OK, so what criteria are you using to rank WRs / QBs?

It's easy to criticise and mock, but it would be better to come back with a well thought out argument than a South Park picture.

[Colgateman]

44 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Depends on what you're measuring by ... BM was a Top 5 WR last year based on yardage; RF was a Top 15 QB last year based on yardage.

I'm just going by the default of how NFL.com rank the players.

15 quarterbacks better than Ryan fitztragic:

russell wilson

 Carson palmer

blake bortles 

andy dalton

cam newton

kirk cousins

tom brady

matt ryan

drew brees

phillip rivers

eli manning

ben rothlosberger(however it's spelt)

tony romo 

tyrod taylor

joe flacco

andrew luck

 

Arguably cutler, and even tannenhill,the rookies mariota And Winston May of been better.

 

[KRL]

That "article" is another plant by Fitzpatrick's agent (Jimmy Sexton) to generate sympathy

[cant wait]

2 hours ago, jamesr said:

OK, so what criteria are you using to rank WRs / QBs?

It's easy to criticise and mock, but it would be better to come back with a well thought out argument than a South Park picture.

Using volume passing stats like total yardage to rank QB play is not going to give a reliable indicator of individual performance... If you're going to go by one of the standard QB statistics then passer rating would be a more accurate representation. But I would point you to a place like PFF if you want a better subjective analysis:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/01/07/pro-pffs-2015-nfl-quarterback-rankings/

[Big Blocker]

19 hours ago, cant wait said:

If fitz signs for a reasonable deal $6-7M that would be preferable. You want to tank multiple seasons? Pay fitz what he's demanding. His amazing personality isn't worth $16M a year

I should have been more clear that of course I want to tank multiple seasons.  Doesn't everyone?

Oh I see you're assuming anything over $7 mil to Fitz tanks multiple seasons.  Now that I think about it, that's probably something that won't tank multiple seasons. 

How about in addition to paying Fitz more htan that the Jets give Geno Smith a long term guaranteed contract extension for some big money?  That should do it.

[Big Blocker]

16 hours ago, Colgateman said:

and have the Packers cut Aaron Rodgers to make cap space for Fitz?

 

You don't make any sense.

Just because you do not follow the sense of my post does not mean I am not making any.  The point is the Jets do not have a lot of options if they do not bring Fitz back.

[Beerfish]

Geno, Petty and Hackenburg have never made the playoffs and Hack and Petty have had super easy schedules (only college teams).  We are soooooo screwed.

[jamesr]

9 minutes ago, cant wait said:

Using volume passing stats like total yardage to rank QB play is not going to give a reliable indicator of individual performance... If you're going to go by one of the standard QB statistics then passer rating would be a more accurate representation. But I would point you to a place like PFF if you want a better subjective analysis:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/01/07/pro-pffs-2015-nfl-quarterback-rankings/

OK, so how much is a top 25 QB worth?  

[Big Blocker]

THis may be as good a thread as any to express my wonderment at how some here are so sure that Fitzpatrick will suffer some material regression in his performance if he comes back.  I don't really understand what that is based upon.

Fitzpatrick is currently healthy, and is no more likely to get injured than any other starting NFL Qb.  So it probably isn't that.

The surrounding cast on O might be even better than last year, but in any event is far from a sure thing to be worse.  In fact I would say it likely to be better since the O willl have had another year where key players like Marshall and Decker can further the chemistry they have with Fitz, behind an OL still anchored by Mangold.  So it isn't that, either, right?

He will be one year older.  But at his age that's no guarantee in and of itself of a major drop off.  Nope, not that, either.

Maybe it's that last year was an outlier for Fitz?  Well, I suppose one could have that opinion.  But what is it really based on?  In fact he had a pretty good 14 before his broken leg.  And there seems to be much to the notion that the situation with the Jets was (and remains - see point about the O above) a good fit for him.  He seems on the right page with the OC.  When was the last time the Jets had that?

Can't be that other teams have come up with defensive schemes that he cannot overcome.  We would have seen more of that last season.

 

So what is it?

[Lupz27]

2 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

THis may be as good a thread as any to express my wonderment at how some here are so sure that Fitzpatrick will suffer some material regression in his performance if he comes back.  I don't really understand what that is based upon.

Fitzpatrick is currently healthy, and is no more likely to get injured than any other starting NFL Qb.  So it probably isn't that.

The surrounding cast on O might be even better than last year, but in any event is far from a sure thing to be worse.  In fact I would say it likely to be better since the O willl have had another year where key players like Marshall and Decker can further the chemistry they have with Fitz, behind an OL still anchored by Mangold.  So it isn't that, either, right?

He will be one year older.  But at his age that's no guarantee in and of itself of a major drop off.  Nope, not that, either.

Maybe it's that last year was an outlier for Fitz?  Well, I suppose one could have that opinion.  But what is it really based on?  In fact he had a pretty good 14 before his broken leg.  And there seems to be much to the notion that the situation with the Jets was (and remains - see point about the O above) a good fit for him.  He seems on the right page with the OC.  When was the last time the Jets had that?

Can't be that other teams have come up with defensive schemes that he cannot overcome.  We would have seen more of that last season.

 

So what is it?

His Beard. 

[ylekram]

6 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

THis may be as good a thread as any to express my wonderment at how some here are so sure that Fitzpatrick will suffer some material regression in his performance if he comes back.  I don't really understand what that is based upon.

Fitzpatrick is currently healthy, and is no more likely to get injured than any other starting NFL Qb.  So it probably isn't that.

The surrounding cast on O might be even better than last year, but in any event is far from a sure thing to be worse.  In fact I would say it likely to be better since the O willl have had another year where key players like Marshall and Decker can further the chemistry they have with Fitz, behind an OL still anchored by Mangold.  So it isn't that, either, right?

He will be one year older.  But at his age that's no guarantee in and of itself of a major drop off.  Nope, not that, either.

Maybe it's that last year was an outlier for Fitz?  Well, I suppose one could have that opinion.  But what is it really based on?  In fact he had a pretty good 14 before his broken leg.  And there seems to be much to the notion that the situation with the Jets was (and remains - see point about the O above) a good fit for him.  He seems on the right page with the OC.  When was the last time the Jets had that?

Can't be that other teams have come up with defensive schemes that he cannot overcome.  We would have seen more of that last season.

 

So what is it?

apparently, its the schedule and the weather. take the sunscreen off of fitz and he falls apart

[Big Blocker]

1 minute ago, ylekram said:

apparently, its the schedule and the weather. take the sunscreen off of fitz and he falls apart

The Jets in 16 are facing the same number of teams that were .500 or better the previous year as they had last year.  10.  I am not saying the schedule will prove to be no more difficult.  But it is not a fact that it will be  as some seem to assume.

Is there some reason he will not able to use sunscreen?  That just might be it, if true.

[Jetster]

Fitz struggled for 3 & 1/2 quarters vs the 32nd ranked defense (Giants) in the entire NFL! He led them on the tying TD I will give him that but Drew Brees playing vs that same defense put up 52 points & went 39/50 505 yards 7 TDs! Lol.

We only scored 13 points in 59 minutes of play, ugh.

[cant wait]

1 hour ago, ylekram said:

apparently, its the schedule and the weather. take the sunscreen off of fitz and he falls apart

No but 15 mph buffalo winds make his weakly thrown passes sail into the ground and into the hands of defenders 

[cant wait]

1 hour ago, jamesr said:

OK, so how much is a top 25 QB worth?  

As much as an NFL team is willing to pay, but somewhere between $4-20M 

[cant wait]

1 hour ago, Big Blocker said:

I should have been more clear that of course I want to tank multiple seasons.  Doesn't everyone?

Oh I see you're assuming anything over $7 mil to Fitz tanks multiple seasons.  Now that I think about it, that's probably something that won't tank multiple seasons. 

How about in addition to paying Fitz more htan that the Jets give Geno Smith a long term guaranteed contract extension for some big money?  That should do it.

When all else fails, whine about geno. It's funny how the typical fitz fluffer response is to blame someone else

[JetBlue]

4 hours ago, Colgateman said:

When that wide receiver is top 5 at their position and holds multiple NFL records, yes.

 

I can't believe you have to actually answer this question.  Does this dude like, use his eyes when watching football? 

[Snell41]

4 hours ago, jamesr said:

So how much is a Top 15 QB worth?

A lot more than Ryan Fitzpatrick. 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 5/4/2016 at 7:20 AM, NYs Stepchild said:

Anyone that doesn't want Fitz back either wants to blow the season for draft picks, or has a very selective memory. No Fitz is not great but he is a genuine NFL QB and we've gone the better part of a decade without one. It was nice to see. 

There is no reason to sign Fitz right now however. We have no idea how good Petty or Hackenberg will be until we see them play. Hell Geno may even have had some sense knocked into him. Weirder things have happened. 

The more time we wait the more Fitz will want to get his ass into camp. It wasn't just the fans, and the players that had fun last year. Fitz had a ball playing with this team. I think he wants to be respected. If he wants that he'll have to take the next step. Sign a 2 year backloaded deal. Bet on yourself Fitz. 

2 year deal 24 mil.  4 mil signing bonus.   4mil this year  16 mil next year  

OK and then what, after he turns down your offer which is worse than the one he's already turned down? What you're proposing only pays him $8M this year and has $0 guaranteed for next year, effectively making it a 1 yr $8M deal with a 2nd year $16M team option that everyone knows he'll never see. Maccagnan has already offered him better than that and Fitz told him to piss off.

I think the selective memory goes on the other side as well, seeing great weather games against injury-riddled teams and creampuffs, where we didn't need to score a lot of points to secure our 10 wins, and thinking that's indicative of a usual, likely scenario to come. Hell, even Fitzpatrick knows that, which is why he doesn't want to sign a 1 year "show me" deal in the first place, otherwise it would have already happened. 

[JetBlue]

4 hours ago, jamesr said:

So how much is a Top 15 QB worth?

Depends. If the quarterback is on the upswing of his career and relatively young, he would worth more than some 30 something year old journeyman, who had a career year while throwing to two all pro/pro bowl receivers.

[Sperm Edwards]

On 5/4/2016 at 7:42 AM, CrazyCarl40 said:

What players have been asked to restructure and refused? Do you know of any for sure? They won't ask players to re-do deals until Fitz is coming on board. It doesn't make sense to change contracts until absolutely necessary. 

 

On 5/4/2016 at 7:46 AM, Irish Jet said:

A million times this.

 

It wouldn't matter if they did (unless they were thinking of dumping that restructured player after this season, and I take for granted Macc would restructure someone he was planning on keeping around anyway).

Look at it this way, say they restructure Brandon Marshall to clear up $5M this year, push it to next year, and then Fitz is still not signed. What's the problem? The team hasn't lost any future cap room unless they use up that $5M on someone else this year. That $5M restructure would mean another $5M in red on the books for 2017, but it's fake red because our cap ceiling next year would also be $5M higher.  The net result is zero.

[PatsFanTX]

Brandon Marshall has never made the play-offs either, but no-one's complaining about him getting paid $9.5m this year as a WR. Hmmm.

Think it might have anything to do with him being highly productive when he is on the football field?

[cant wait]

26 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

OK and then what, after he turns down your offer which is worse than the one he's already turned down? What you're proposing only pays him $8M this year and has $0 guaranteed for next year, effectively making it a 1 yr $8M deal with a 2nd year $16M team option that everyone knows he'll never see. Maccagnan has already offered him better than that and Fitz told him to piss off.

I think the selective memory goes on the other side as well, seeing great weather games against injury-riddled teams and creampuffs, where we didn't need to score a lot of points to secure our 10 wins, and thinking that's indicative of a usual, likely scenario to come. Hell, even Fitzpatrick knows that, which is why he doesn't want to sign a 1 year "show me" deal in the first place, otherwise it would have already happened. 

The fact that the jets last season won just one game that they were behind at any point is very telling. And for a QB who was asked to be a game manager for the most part, the 32 turnover worthy plays (PFF) are unacceptable and indicate the final stat line is an abberation

[ylekram]

12 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Depends. If the quarterback is on the upswing of his career and relatively young, he would worth more than some 30 something year old journeyman, who had a career year while throwing to two all pro/pro bowl receivers.

exactly how many pro bowls/ all pro teams has eric decker been selected for?

[Big Blocker]

58 minutes ago, cant wait said:

When all else fails, whine about geno. It's funny how the typical fitz fluffer response is to blame someone else

I was not whining about Smith.  You seem to have comprehension issues.  I was saying I don't think giving Fitz more than $7 mil will "tank multiple seasons".  I just mentioned Smith in the context of what would be much more likely to do that. 

I think we are done here.

[Colgateman]

58 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

I can't believe you have to actually answer this question.  Does this dude like, use his eyes when watching football? 

Well, he was putting sh*tty strawman arguments out, so I was too tempted

[Colgateman]

42 minutes ago, ylekram said:

exactly how many pro bowls/ all pro teams has eric decker been selected for?

Everyone knows decker is one of the best #2 receivers in the NFL.

number 2 wide receivers don't make pro bowls, that is a game for the flashiest players with the best stats.

 

[cant wait]

3 hours ago, Big Blocker said:

I was not whining about Smith.  You seem to have comprehension issues.  I was saying I don't think giving Fitz more than $7 mil will "tank multiple seasons".  I just mentioned Smith in the context of what would be much more likely to do that. 

I think we are done here.

My comprehension? I said paying fitz what he's currently demanding is a good way to tank multiple seasons. But I probably should have dumbed it down a little for you, my apologies

 

[Big Blocker]

2 hours ago, cant wait said:

My comprehension? I said paying fitz what he's currently demanding is a good way to tank multiple seasons. But I probably should have dumbed it down a little for you, my apologies

 

No one here is talking about paying Fitz the number he ostensibly is asking for, $16 mil, which is why I said merely more than the $7 mil you referred to yesterday.  To which you focused on my reference to Smith, which was not whining about Smith, as you said it was.  It was clearly a reference to the kind of deal that beyond question would tank several seasons, and was intended as a joke.

Now you want to insult me with your reading for dummies pic, the pic being offensive.  I probably should have left this with we are done here from my previous post, but thanks for making clear what kind of poster you are.  I will not forget it.

 

For everyone else I do not consider myself a "Fitz fluffer", and would have preferred the FO look harder at some vet options or possible trades than they seem to have.  But I also think there is a lot of too negative takes on Fitz, most seeming to come from Smith Fans who I concededly think are the worst.  So, if me preferring Fitz to SMith makes me a Fitz Fluffer on that basis alone, then I plead guilty.

Even if I am not a Fitz fluffer.

[Snell41]

2 hours ago, cant wait said:

My comprehension? I said paying fitz what he's currently demanding is a good way to tank multiple seasons. But I probably should have dumbed it down a little for you, my apologies

 

Not trying to be a dick, but that's pretty darn offensive man. 

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, jamesr said:

So how much is a Top 15 QB worth?

We'll see when we get one.

I wouldnt worry about that just now, we dont have one.  

[joewilly12]

16 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

It must really suck to be you. Just an observation/guess, not an accusation in any way.

Worse off being you. 

[ylekram]

1 hour ago, Colgateman said:

Everyone knows decker is one of the best #2 receivers in the NFL.

number 2 wide receivers don't make pro bowls, that is a game for the flashiest players with the best stats.

 

jetblue is a big boy. he can answer his own questions. he doesnt need you. when he makes statements referring to people not knowing what they are talking about, then his next statement is decker is a pro bowler/ all pro, I want to know what he knows that I missed.

[jamesr]

2 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

Think it might have anything to do with him being highly productive when he is on the football field?

I'm not denying he is productive - I was trying to prove a point to those who bleat on about the fact that Fitz has never made the play-offs and has played on multiple teams as the reason he should not be re-signed.

But the hate for him on here is strong with a lot of posters.

[JetBlue]

2 hours ago, ylekram said:

exactly how many pro bowls/ all pro teams has eric decker been selected for?

Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. Decker has had several pro bowl caliber seasons; look it up. to deny that speaks of an agenda.