Kirwan breaks down Fitz on film

[Jet Nut]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Geno working out with some WR's falls under the category of "things that don't matter", yes.  Actual film of Fitz playing well in actual games, that matters.  But sure, I'm the one bullsh*tting.

Kind of like anything you have to say about the QBs.  You're just one way 80

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

Again we won ten games. You can win a Super Bowl on that. And Gailey doesn't need Fitz to be a high paid teacher. That's his job and the Qb coach. Even though he helped Petty a lot last year and was a good teammate. The idea is to win in 2016 something some fans can't even fathom. We are a legit contender, 

Again your assuming Fitz can help the Jets go from a 10 win borderline playoff team to a SB caliber team. When that said player hasn't won 1 playoff game over a 11 year career I'd say that assumption is a bit of a stretch.

Fitz has limitations physically and typically struggles when the weather gets colder In addition opponents now have a year of film on Fitz in this version of Gailey's offense - I just don't see Fitz raising his game when the chips are down . I'm nor sure Geno can either but I believe in his upside morso than Fitz's.

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Again we won ten games. You can win a Super Bowl on that. And Gailey doesn't need Fitz to be a high paid teacher. That's his job and the Qb coach. Even though he helped Petty a lot last year and was a good teammate. The idea is to win in 2016 something some fans can't even fathom. We are a legit contender, 

you can't win a SB without getting to the playoffs first.  10 wins is nice but meaningless w/o a playoff app.

[Sperm Edwards]

16 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

So then sign him to a one year deal then.. If he signs the 1-12 it saves the Jets at least 3 mil maybe over time 12 mil. If he signs for less money like a 1-8 (which is the average) even better for the FO. The question is can he take us to the playoffs in 2016. I would think yes. We would be competitive. And can you win a SB if you make the playoffs. Well teams do get hot even not the best teams. The Giants proved it a few times. They beat an undefeated team in the SB. And their regular season record was 9-7. Sure lighting can strike in a bottle and it did for them. If we win 9 or 10 games and things break right for us and our players believe in themselves (which they did until Mac got him fingers in the pie) we could have a great season. Nothing is guaranteed. But when you have a good team you go for it. You don't slack off and say you're going to build for the future. 

lol what? 

[Rangers9]

Most of the time ten wins gets you into the playoffs Last year Seattle and Pittsburgh got in with 10 wins. And Wash made it with 9 wins.  The Jets made it with 9 wins in 2009. Like I said before in 2012 the Giants won a SB off of 9 wins. I think we are in a good position to be competitive in 2016 and have a chance to make the playoffs based on what we did in 2015. Unlike some of you I'm not giving up on the present for the future. When I think we have a good chance now. In 2017 you don't know who is going to be on this team. Some of our key players could be gone. 

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Most of the time ten wins gets you into the playoffs Last year Seattle and Pittsburgh got in with 10 wins. And Wash made it with 9 wins.  The Jets made it with 9 wins in 2009. Like I said before in 2012 the Giants won a SB off of 9 wins. I think we are in a good position to be competitive in 2016 and have a chance to make the playoffs based on what we did in 2015. Unlike some of you I'm not giving up on the present for the future. When I think we have a good chance now. In 2017 you don't know who is going to be on this team. Some of our key players could be gone. 

most of the time but not in 2010, we had a win and in opportunity in week 17 against a dead team and blew it.  you don't get anything for 10 wins w/ no playoffs.

 

the 9 win team in 2009 was better than the 10 win 2015 version, they made the playoffs against a tougher schedule.  the 2011 Giants were better than the 2015 Jets, they had a win and in opportunity in week 17 and WON then won the SB.

[fltflo]

Folks I would like to see Geno have a opportunity to start just to see where he is at.

Yet, just because I feel that way, does not negate the great job Fitz did last year. I just know that we have seen his absolute ceiling and it's not something that can carry this team long term.

So what's the point of spending even the offered 12 million dollars on him if the return is minimal. Would you agree using that cash to sign Mo long term ,would be better spent ,with greater return.

So not all people who want Geno to start are unappreciative of Fritz's service.

Yet, my friends Fritz is a dead end that leads to nowhere. Even if he matches last years wins, he hurts us. We will have a lower draft pick and have gained nothing for another 10 win season.

Where as if Geno starts and tanks, we gain a top draft pick and all questions concerning Geno will end. On the other hand if Geno steps up and becomes the QB that the Jets expected him to be when he was taking in the second round. Well then, the Jets will options, keep Geno next year as our possible franchise QB. If they like Hack enough and feel he is a better option, sign and then trade Geno for picks or trade him for players of need.

As you see in the long run we fair far better as a franchise, starting Geno.

[Rangers9]

6 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

most of the time but not in 2010, we had a win and in opportunity in week 17 against a dead team and blew it.  you don't get anything for 10 wins w/ no playoffs.

 

the 9 win team in 2009 was better than the 10 win 2015 version, they made the playoffs against a tougher schedule.  the 2011 Giants were better than the 2015 Jets, they had a win and in opportunity in week 17 and WON then won the SB.

I don't agree with any of this. It's just revisionist history to fit your talking points. 

[Joe Jets fan]

50 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

In the biggest game of his 11 year career , with the playoffs on the line - Fitz flat out sh*t the bed.

If Sanchez or Geno ever did that they would have been run out of town by mobs with torches and pitchforks.

Yet Jet fans want this guy desperately back to try his hand at a 12th season with a pay raise to boot.

What so many posters here don't or choose not to understand is that's its not about everyone thinking Fitz is great, its that he is the only way for us to not see the train wreck that is Geno Smith play.  If a different vet was signed it would be fine.  Two years of watching the worst QB play I have seen in my 34 years as a fan is something I do not wish to see again.  So go Fitz.

[56mehl56]

22 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Most of the time ten wins gets you into the playoffs Last year Seattle and Pittsburgh got in with 10 wins. And Wash made it with 9 wins.  The Jets made it with 9 wins in 2009. Like I said before in 2012 the Giants won a SB off of 9 wins. I think we are in a good position to be competitive in 2016 and have a chance to make the playoffs based on what we did in 2015. Unlike some of you I'm not giving up on the present for the future. When I think we have a good chance now. In 2017 you don't know who is going to be on this team. Some of our key players could be gone. 

I don't think there's anyone here who wouldn't sign up to win now. The problem is separating the emotional aspect from the logical.

[cant wait]

There was actually a decent article about this topic posted today

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2016/6/16/11955050/ny-jets-the-backup-plan

edit: wrong thread

[nyjunc]

18 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I don't agree with any of this. It's just revisionist history to fit your talking points. 

you don't have to agree, I'm right but you don't have to agree

[slats]

3 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

So then sign him to a one year deal then.. If he signs the 1-12 it saves the Jets at least 3 mil maybe over time 12 mil. If he signs for less money like a 1-8 (which is the average) even better for the FO. The question is can he take us to the playoffs in 2016. I would think yes. We would be competitive. And can you win a SB if you make the playoffs. Well teams do get hot even not the best teams. The Giants proved it a few times. They beat an undefeated team in the SB. And their regular season record was 9-7. Sure you can catch lightning in a bottle as they did. If we win 9 or 10 games and things break right for us and our players believe in themselves (which they did until Mac got him fingers in the pie) we could have a great season. Nothing is guaranteed. But when you have a good team you go for it. You don't slack off and say you're going to build for the future. 

The Jets have no interest in Fitz on a one year deal. Fitzpatrick's value to them is in stabilizing the (backup) QB position for the next few years, and mentoring Hackenberg and (maybe) Petty. Fitz' ability as a QB on the football field alone is simply not worth a one year deal to them. And rightly so. This is why their offer hasn't changed in months. Fitz can accept their insulting, $8M/year, indentured servant, but easily best (or only) offer on his table, or not. 

[Rangers9]

9 minutes ago, slats said:

The Jets have no interest in Fitz on a one year deal. Fitzpatrick's value to them is in stabilizing the (backup) QB position for the next few years, and mentoring Hackenberg and (maybe) Petty. Fitz' ability as a QB on the football field alone is simply not worth a one year deal to them. And rightly so. This is why their offer hasn't changed in months. Fitz can accept their insulting, $8M/year, indentured servant, but easily best (or only) offer on his table, or not. 

Well I can't see Fitz signing that deal. It's not a fair offer. If he's willing to take less for one season why do they have to tie him up in years 2 and 3. And it's not to be a mentor or stabilize the backup job. They don't have to pay 6 mil for that. It's to be Mac's insurance policy. To cover his ass if things don't work out. 

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, cant wait said:

There was actually a decent article about this topic posted today

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2016/6/16/11955050/ny-jets-the-backup-plan

edit: wrong thread

Wow! Maybe someone should send this to Pat Kirwan, tell him to break that down. 

[Larz]

did he add the up the almost dropped ones ?

[slats]

Just now, Rangers9 said:

Well I can't see Fitz signing that deal. It's not a fair offer. If he's willing to take less for one season why do they have to tie him up in years 2 and 3. And it's not to be a mentor or stabilize the backup job. They don't have to pay 6 mil for that. It's to be Mac's insurance policy. To cover his ass if things don't work out. 

No, it's to solidify the backup QB job - which sometimes requires starting once in a while. They're offering a premium (as you're admitting here) for that. They want to sign Fitz for three years, and have him start as few games as possible over that period of time. That's their goal. They want Fitz back but, like the entirety of the NFL, recognize that he's not an NFL starting QB. 

And I think Fitz will sign, but don't care if he doesn't - which I believe is Mac's position as well. 

[Rangers9]

15 minutes ago, slats said:

No, it's to solidify the backup QB job - which sometimes requires starting once in a while. They're offering a premium (as you're admitting here) for that. They want to sign Fitz for three years, and have him start as few games as possible over that period of time. That's their goal. They want Fitz back but, like the entirety of the NFL, recognize that he's not an NFL starting QB. 

And I think Fitz will sign, but don't care if he doesn't - which I believe is Mac's position as well. 

It's obvious they want him to start in 2016. If he plays well in 2016 why be tied up in a low ball contract as a backup and be a security blanket for the GM and the owner. If he succeeds he can recover all of that lost money. And make a lot more. This might not be just about money. If they don't sign him expect waves of dissent from most Jets fans if the team regresses under Geno. And it will be a lot more legit than the Idzik backlash. 

[UpstateJetsGuru]

11 hours ago, AFJF said:

I wonder how many other fan bases get upset when somebody shows one if their players doing something well.

Exactly. What a complete joke.

[Villain The Foe]

14 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

It's obvious they want him to start in 2016. If he plays well in 2016 why be tied up in a low ball contract as a backup and be a security blanket for the GM and the owner. If he succeeds he can recover all of that lost money. And make a lot more. This might not be just about money. If they don't sign him expect waves of dissent from most Jets fans if the team regresses under Geno. And it will be a lot more legit than the Idzik backlash. 

Ranger, its because no one is offering him anything better now. There isnt another offer on the table....anywhere. You may not think its "fair", but what you (or I) think and what the market is offering is different. 

I dont think the Jets should be offering anything above 8 million, yet they are. You think the 3 year 24 million deal is a rip off, yet no one else is offering anything better. 

 

What's the problem? 

[slats]

9 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

It's obvious they want him to start in 2016. If he plays well in 2016 why be tied up in a low ball contract as a backup and be a security blanket for the GM and the owner. If he succeeds he can recover all of that lost money. And make a lot more. This might not be just about money. If they don't sign him expect waves of dissent from most Jets fans if the team regresses under Geno. And it will be a lot more legit than the Idzik backlash. 

No. It's obvious they want him to start this year contingent upon him mentoring Hackenberg et al for the following two years. If it was so important to them that he start this season, they'd've already offered the one year deal you think they should. 

[Rangers9]

Just now, slats said:

No. It's obvious they want him to start this year contingent upon him mentoring Hackenberg et al for the following two years. If it was so important to them that he start this season, they'd've already offered the one year deal you think they should. 

They don't need to pay anybody 24 mil to mentor Hack. They have coaches for that. It's a silly idea. 

[slats]

19 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

They don't need to pay anybody 24 mil to mentor Hack. They have coaches for that. It's a silly idea. 

It's silly to offer Ryan Fitzpatrick 3 years, $24M, too, but here we are. 

[Big Blocker]

17 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

So using that argument Geno is 0-1 entering this season as his work under Rex and his ragtag offense are ancient history - correct??

No, what Smith has done on the field is the evidence we have to work with.  In Fitzpatrick's case the more relevant body of work is what he's done the last two years, not at the beginning of his career.  You are arguing for an equivalency that is not there.

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, Big Blocker said:

No, what Smith has done on the field is the evidence we have to work with.  In Fitzpatrick's case the more relevant body of work is what he's done the last two years, not at the beginning of his career.  You are arguing for an equivalency that is not there.

So the beginning of Fitz's career doesn't count or more specifically his first 9 years are irrelevant - I see .

[Rangers9]

On 6/16/2016 at 8:23 AM, AFJF said:

I wonder how many other fan bases get upset when somebody shows one if their players doing something well.

This basically says it all. 

[thebuzzardman]

Why not Geno?

Fitz was a professionally competent QB last year who, through basic competence and the Jet's weak schedule, helped them to win 10 games and move down in the draft, while missing the playoffs. 

Geno has shown to be a basically not competent QB, but there are the usual factors stated of needing to develop, bad talent, blah blah blah. 

If Geno shows a pulse (or more accurately a brain), the Jets win 8 games, the same amount if Fitz comes back, based on the fact the Jets play actual good teams this year. 

If Geno sucks, the Jets win like 3 or 4 games, which is awesome, as that is a higher pick. And $ saved not paying The Beard. 

[Mainejet]

On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 11:50 AM, Villain The Foe said:

The only excuse I see are people making a case for a guy that isnt even on the team, not in OTA's and not at minicamp. 

 

The only excuse I see are people making a case for a guy the Jets FO didnt resign before the offseason program started, didnt franchise him before the offseason program began and then proceeded to let him sit on the free agency market since March. Its June 16th my friend and Fitz is STILL on the market. Every team who was looking for an answer at QB passed on him. You dont hear about any other team in the league having talks with Fitz or his agent. 

 

Meanwhile you think im crying becuase Geno is out there with the 1st team showing the team what he's made of? Na, bro. I wiped my tears the day the draft ended and I realized that trading for Mike Glennon wasnt happening. I proceeded to move on, unlike some of the fans on this forum. 

Well, then you must be blind....

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

Well, then you must be blind....

Probably

[ljr]

20 hours ago, thebuzzardman said:

Why not Geno?

Fitz was a professionally competent QB last year who, through basic competence and the Jet's weak schedule, helped them to win 10 games and move down in the draft, while missing the playoffs. 

Geno has shown to be a basically not competent QB, but there are the usual factors stated of needing to develop, bad talent, blah blah blah. 

If Geno shows a pulse (or more accurately a brain), the Jets win 8 games, the same amount if Fitz comes back, based on the fact the Jets play actual good teams this year. 

If Geno sucks, the Jets win like 3 or 4 games, which is awesome, as that is a higher pick. And $ saved not paying The Beard. 

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle

[ljr]

On June 16, 2016 at 7:07 PM, slats said:

The Jets have no interest in Fitz on a one year deal. Fitzpatrick's value to them is in stabilizing the (backup) QB position for the next few years, and mentoring Hackenberg and (maybe) Petty. Fitz' ability as a QB on the football field alone is simply not worth a one year deal to them. And rightly so. This is why their offer hasn't changed in months. Fitz can accept their insulting, $8M/year, indentured servant, but easily best (or only) offer on his table, or not. 

I think it's more accurate to say the Jets preferred interest in Fitz is on the team friendly 3 year deal ... Their feet have not been put to the fire yet of having to decide what they would be willing to offer on a 1 year deal for Fitz that would just lock him up for 2016 if the alternative were 2016 with Geno ... Or a plan C Josh McCown type getting kicked free from Cle

[Mainejet]

On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 3:03 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

And Geno is 12-21.  What's your point?

This is 100% accurate. Everything you have posted in this thread is completely correct. Despite all the idiots hanging out on this site, it's nice to see that many still get it...

[jetrider]

On June 16, 2016 at 0:03 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

And Geno is 12-21.  What's your point?

No, you're confused; Geno is 11-18. Fitz was 12-20-1 in Buffalo after three years. Vick started three games for Jets in '14, was 1-2.

Point is, ding-dong, you're drawing conclusions about Geno after two years in the league with the dumbest OC and a HC with a mental block for offense.

Sam Bradford was 8-18 his first two years. Steve Young was 3-16 after two years in TB (11 TDs; 21 INTs) and was deemed a bust. 

Like Pat Kirwan said, "Maybe sometime you gotta give the guy weapons."

 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Mainejet said:

This is 100% accurate. Everything you have posted in this thread is completely correct. Despite all the idiots hanging out on this site, it's nice to see that many still get it...

You calling anyone an idiot is brilliant. 

[Mainejet]

30 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You calling anyone an idiot is brilliant. 

Are you stalking me? I know you're in love with me, but replying to every single post I make on this site when I never initiate anything with you is a little weird. If you're so butt hurt by what I post, use the ignore function.