Reggie McKenzie (MERGED)

[CanadaSteve]

40 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I have no idea. I am thoroughly enjoying you yelling at everyone though.

Good....sometimes you just have to call stupidity out, and there has been a lot of it on this site the past few weeks, so there is that.

 

[CrazyCarl40]

2 hours ago, Jetdawgg said:

It's the check book with Macc. It's his BPA approach. It may be too strict. When drafting like that, you may have to make other moves like on the DL after Williams. He then signed Mo to big money.

He drafted two QB's then brought Futz back with a big dollar signing over TWO seasons for no reason. That not only killed the cap, it also took reps and preparation time from the younger QB's. Who does that?

So far he does not appear to have a coherent roster management or check book strategy. Roster management is important as the CS needs to run a certain scheme. To this point in time he has put TB and the staff in a difficult position with these major flaws in his GM game.

LOL. No matter how many times you say this, it's just not true. The cap is not killed, reps were not taken, and it's not big dollars. What planet do you live on?

I actually agree with you on roster management, which has been weird at best and downright idiotic at worst. 4 QBs and 4 TEs on the same roster week in and week out was crazy.

[jeremy2020]

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Nope....ready for someone to actually come here with a good argument for their stance on how MacCagnan should be fired as GM of the Jets after two horrendous seasons. 

The other thread about this didn't do it for ya?

[flgreen]

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

I also agree that a nearly 2:1 TD to INT ratio not meaningfully different than an 1:2 TD to INT ratio.  It's just the fans!

Do you think who the Raiders selected in the 4 drafts before Carr might have anything to do with that

2011  1st round Wisniewski  (C)  3rd round Barksdale OT

2012  1st pick Bergstrom OT

2013  2nd round Watson T

2014  3rd round Jackson OG

When Carr got there the Raiders had a very good OL.  I wonder if maybe they had a plan?

Petty arguably has the worst OL in the NFL.  Tough to throw when your laying on your back..  Wonder how Dak would be doing with this OL?

 

[RutgersJetFan]

34 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Good....sometimes you just have to call stupidity out, and there has been a lot of it on this site the past few weeks, so there is that.

 

Yes. That is exactly what you are doing.

[Rangers9]

You can point to a few bad draft picks. And show me one team that is 100% perfect. But what McKenzie is showing is that you have to give a GM and coach at least 3 years to improve the team. Sometimes the difference between a good team and a losing team is losing close games and injuries. This year however after a good season in 2015 with a rookie HC and GM reality has come back and nothing has worked this season. Similar to 2014 when the GM made moves but none of them worked. And the philosophy was to keep more cap space for the following year when the expectation was the team could be more competitive. This year we've been basically non competitive in 6 our of 14 games and that is almost half of our games. So it's not just bad luck it's a bad team. IMO you have to give both of them a chance to fix this. I mean they inherited a bad team and did a good job in year one. Except on the GM side imo not wisely spending all of the cap space he was given.

[Jetdawgg]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

LOL. No matter how many times you say this, it's just not true. The cap is not killed, reps were not taken, and it's not big dollars. What planet do you live on?

I actually agree with you on roster management, which has been weird at best and downright idiotic at worst. 4 QBs and 4 TEs on the same roster week in and week out was crazy.

The re-signing of Futz had the Jets make adjustments to fit in his $7MM USD this season and spread the other $5MM into next season. They also had to adjust another player's salary to bring him back. No way in the world or Mars is/was your choice for QB worth it. No matter how you try to spin or justify it.

Geno was a cheaper option and could have done just as bad.

[CrazyCarl40]

10 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

The re-signing of Futz had the Jets make adjustments to fit in his $7MM USD this season and spread the other $5MM into next season. They also had to adjust another player's salary to bring him back. No way in the world or Mars is/was your choice for QB worth it. No matter how you try to spin or justify it.

Geno was a cheaper option and could have done just as bad.

7 Million is still far below market value. The way they made room was extend Wilkerson. The professional football decision makers think your boy was so bad that they HAD to bring him back, and let's not forget the Jets wanted him back for three years. No matter how you try to spin it, Geno sucks.

[Jetdawgg]

10 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

7 Million is still far below market value. The way they made room was extend Wilkerson. The professional football decision makers think your boy was so bad that they HAD to bring him back, and let's not forget the Jets wanted him back for three years. No matter how you try to spin it, Geno sucks.

Your thought on Geno is an opinion still. Your thought on Futz, that disaster you selected and prayed for was not a marketable choice once he held out if OTA's. Then he signs and walks in as the starter with no reps. Who does that? That decision killed this team as the deep ball could have helped win some games.

Macc adds speed to the WR position and then signs the QB you selected with the pea shooter, squirt gun arm. Those errors make the team mis configured and nearly uncoachable.  And now you say fire the coach? Your cred here is way past suspect. 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, flgreen said:

Do you think who the Raiders selected in the 4 drafts before Carr might have anything to do with that

2011  1st round Wisniewski  (C)  3rd round Barksdale OT

2012  1st pick Bergstrom OT

2013  2nd round Watson T

2014  3rd round Jackson OG

When Carr got there the Raiders had a very good OL.  I wonder if maybe they had a plan?

Petty arguably has the worst OL in the NFL.  Tough to throw when your laying on your back..  Wonder how Dak would be doing with this OL?

 

Petty being at a disadvantage due to his offensive line is an acceptable notion.  Petty and Carr being identical minus the fans is not.

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, Jetdawgg said:

Your thought on Geno is an opinion still. Your thought on Futz, that disaster you selected and prayed for was not a marketable choice once he held out if OTA's. Then he signs and walks in as the starter with no reps. Who does that? That decision killed this team as the deep ball could have helped win some games.

Macc adds speed to the WR position and then signs the QB you selected with the pea shooter, squirt gun arm. Those errors make the team mis configured and nearly uncoachable.  And now you say fire the coach? Your cred here is way past suspect. 

This team wasn't winning games his year on offense no matter who the QB was. He also never held out and he was made the starter by the coach before he was ever resigned. No amount of deep balls was helping this defense.

Macc signed he QB he and the coach selected. I'm not sure if you think I have a say in front office operations but I don't. And I've never said fire the coach. I'll wait for you to find a post where I did. No need to lie because you're wrong. I'm not worried about my "cred" here especially from someone like you. 

[j4jets]

On 12/19/2016 at 11:44 AM, UnitedWhofans said:

McKenzie was named the Oakland GM in 2012.

Went 4-12, 4-12, 3-13, 7-9 and now 11-3.

Carr was drafted in the 3-13 year. So not all the progress the Raiders can point to that alone.

I think he should be NFL executive of the year and it goes to show what patience can do. 

This is a HUGE draft for Mike Maccagnan coming up. His first two drafts have been, despite what the "only care about stars" media and fanbase thinks, okay. Not great, Not horrible. So this is a big one. He nailed his first top ten pick., which some people think was a no brainer, although with the Jets, the no brainer can go by the wayside.

Darron Lee has potential at the 20th pick. But he needs to really nail this pick

 

 

Jokeland had drafted ONE PB player in the 8 previous years. And even that debateable itself. Zach Miller. We had a far better roster than Jokeland and sh*t ton of cap space. When you 10 games in one year, expectations get reset. Im not asking to let go of Macc. He's been ok at best. I'm willing to let him stay another year. But he needs to get his act together. He's a bigger spender than Tanny ever was with all these lavish deals, most of which did not work out (Cro, Mo, Revis, Beard). He saw the cash and jumped on it like a stripper. And now we are back to cap hell only one year removed from like $40mil of cap space. He needs to act like a grown man and not a teenager. 

[Jetdawgg]

41 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

This team wasn't winning games his year on offense no matter who the QB was. He also never held out and he was made the starter by the coach before he was ever resigned. No amount of deep balls was helping this defense.

Macc signed he QB he and the coach selected. I'm not sure if you think I have a say in front office operations but I don't. And I've never said fire the coach. I'll wait for you to find a post where I did. No need to lie because you're wrong. I'm not worried about my "cred" here especially from someone like you. 

Your first portion is speculation not fact. Geno, Petty and Hack all have better arms than your pea shooter choice. The WR's this year can make the deep route possible. Futz's play demoralized the defense to a very serious extent. Sure there are players who have lapsed at times. His atrocious play at QB, which we over paid for in part due to the chorus line of fans like you added pressure to the FO to sign that least. 

Since Idzik was pushed out by the fans, it was easy to see how that can happen. It was not you singularly. That you is plural. Just like the fire coach crowd. Too many here with little GM acumen. 

 

[CrazyCarl40]

41 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

Your first portion is speculation not fact. Geno, Petty and Hack all have better arms than your pea shooter choice. The WR's this year can make the deep route possible. Futz's play demoralized the defense to a very serious extent. Sure there are players who have lapsed at times. His atrocious play at QB, which we over paid for in part due to the chorus line of fans like you added pressure to the FO to sign that least. 

Since Idzik was pushed out by the fans, it was easy to see how that can happen. It was not you singularly. That you is plural. Just like the fire coach crowd. Too many here with little GM acumen. 

 

So much about this is wrong I don't know where to start, so I won't. No sense in debating someone who thinks the fans sign players and fire GMs and think they know more than hired professionals. Woof. 

[flgreen]

2 hours ago, gEYno said:

Petty being at a disadvantage due to his offensive line is an acceptable notion.  Petty and Carr being identical minus the fans is not.

I honestly don't now what your basing the fact that Carr was a much better prospect then Petty coming out on.

Carr had good stats at Fresno State, but Petty's were better at Baylor.  Petty received the Offensive MVP in a Bowl game lose to Michigan State.  it is really rare that the losing QB gets MVP.

Petty fell from a 1st round pick to a 4th because on opening day of his Senior season, he broke two bones in his back and played in great discomfort the rest of the season.  He didn't have as good a year as he had his junior year.  His QB rating was still higher then Carr's .

The real reason Petty fell was that he had an awful Senior Bowl week.  From what I had read at the time it looked like he had never played under center, been in a huddle, or had a play book.  He hadn't.

Petty has come a 1,000 miles since his awful Senior Bowl week.   He has definitely shown the ability to accept coaching and is clearly a fast learner with the few reps he's had.

Not saying he is where he needs to be right now, he's not, but anyone writing him off because of his draft position is making a mistake

[Jetdawgg]

55 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

So much about this is wrong I don't know where to start, so I won't. No sense in debating someone who thinks the fans sign players and fire GMs and think they know more than hired professionals. Woof. 

Ask Idzik about being fired. Ask Futz about being signed for a tremendous amount of wasted money. Mo too for that matter. The fans played a big role in those events. 

Corporate governance is missing from the Jets

[CrazyCarl40]

15 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

Ask Idzik about being fired. Ask Futz about being signed for a tremendous amount of wasted money. Mo too for that matter. The fans played a big role in those events. 

Corporate governance is missing from the Jets

You're delusional. Good lord seek help. 

[Mogglez]

11 hours ago, JiF said:

 

Big Mac has been a disaster in the draft so far.  I'm not sure why you've anointed yourself his personal defender but there is really nothing to defend.  The criticism is real and fair and he's not above it.  You act like he's perfect when he's been terrible. 

Those players you listed, are not impact Football players and 1 is a punter.  I take that back, Anderson (who wasnt a draft pick which is what we're discussing) has proven to be a diamond in the rough.  So he's drafted 1 impact player in 2 years and that player fell to him by pure luck.  

And you're right, I'm flat out wrong that that McKenzie has found 3 impact players in each of his drafts.  His first one in 2012 wasnt pretty.  And that's probably because he didnt have a pick till the 3rd round (and he actually did still find players, they're just on other teams).  Other than that 1 draft where he was severely handicapped,  he's been money finding at least 3 impact players in each draft.

2013: Hayden, Watson, Murray, Rivera, Moore, McGee.

2014: Mack, Carr, Jackson - plus depth players

2015: Amari Cooper, Mario Edwards, Clive Warford, 

2016: Karl Joseph, Jihad Ward, Shilique Calhoun, Deandre Washington, Cory James

Not sure what you're arguing or what I'm cherry picking...it's just fact. 

I'm out shopping (last minute) but this is a healthy debate that I'm enjoying so gonna try and continue it and address you as soundly as I can without scattering my thoughts because of the chaos around me.

I don't want to be Maccagnan's "crusader", I just don't get how anyone (not saying you JiF, but there have been some) can be in full blown "fire Macc" mode when his first draft hasn't even been given a full 3 years to mature, which I  personally should be the minimum amount of time given before blasting the players selected.  I don't know what those people want or expect, but Maccagnan being fired this early is a one way ticket to landing us Idzik 2.0.  I like the drafts so far and when you objectively look at the individuals performances and factor in where they have been drafted, it's really not as bleak as many of us think.  The "CAP issue" is easily remedied with the way the contracts he's drawn up have been structured and there are definitely some young pieces here to build around. If Hack or someone else he selects becomes "that guy", then we'll all be singing his praises.  That's just how this business is.  I know I'm in the minority, but I like Hack and think if he's groomed the right way, he can be "the guy" for us.  That all being said, if Macc doesn't land that big fish, then I will criticize him just the same.  I do have minor quarrels with some of the things he's done, but none are strong enough for me to jump the gun on him in year 2.  

All in all we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on the "terrible" part because I personally feel our 2015 class is pretty equal to Reggie's 2014 class....minus the QB of course (so far, but I doubt Petty is the future of this team).  Stud defensive player who will be a cornerstone for years and some good depth guys.  It's far too early to grade this class as a whole and the same applies to his 2016 class. I also don't think it would be fair to give ANY GM (minus Idzik) less than 2 coaches.  Macc didn't "hire" Bowles and while I think Todd can still turn his career around, I'm indifferent towards firing him after this year at this point.  Especially if there is a clear cut better choice.  The performances have been that bad.

*For the record, I count UDFAs as "picks" for any team because you still need to scout them and convince them to sign with you over other choices.  That's why I included guys like Anderson*

[Sperm Edwards]

On 12/19/2016 at 2:50 PM, drdetroit said:

I think Mac needs another year or two as the GM.  Bowles however is waste of time

You haven't looked at how that process would play out.

Say you want to fire Bowles now but give Mac another year or two. OK, fine. Problem is what to do if (when) it's more of the same from Maccagnan: you'll then want to replace him since, unlike in Jan 2017, you're now sure you want to dump him as well. 

Now it's January 2018 or January 2019 and you want to fire Maccagnan. What do you do with the still-coaching replacement for Bowles that was just hired in 2017? Are you going to fire him as well, after only 1 or 2 seasons (the first being an obvious rebuild mulligan year), or are you going to tell the next GM candidates if they are hired they have to keep the current HC at least through the 2019 season?

See the problem now? Regretfully, they both should return for 2017. 

[sourceworx]

36 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You haven't looked at how that process would play out.

Say you want to fire Bowles now but give Mac another year or two. OK, fine. Problem is what to do if (when) it's more of the same from Maccagnan: you'll then want to replace him since, unlike in Jan 2017, you're now sure you want to dump him as well. 

Now it's January 2018 or January 2019 and you want to fire Maccagnan. What do you do with the still-coaching replacement for Bowles that was just hired in 2017? Are you going to fire him as well, after only 1 or 2 seasons (the first being an obvious rebuild mulligan year), or are you going to tell the next GM candidates if they are hired they have to keep the current HC at least through the 2019 season?

See the problem now? Regretfully, they both should return for 2017. 

Good point. 

If we're going to keep Bowles, then he must completely overhaul the defensive coaching staff. 

I'd give Gailey and Patullo another shot, if only because changing systems may hurt the two young QBs more than it helps them. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, sourceworx said:

Good point. 

If we're going to keep Bowles, then he must completely overhaul the defensive coaching staff. 

I'd give Gailey and Patullo another shot, if only because changing systems may hurt the two young QBs more than it helps them. 

It's tough to render an opinion on that, since it's likely to be fruitless. What coordinators & positional coaches of substance are really going to flock to the Jets to hitch themselves to Bowles, who himself will be on obvious thin ice?

This is no endorsement for bringing back anyone presently under him; I'm just stating this is how things look to others. Maybe we could get a decent coordinator who'd secretly hope Bowles gets fired midseason (and he'd get promoted as interim HC, thereby giving himself an inside track on the regular HC gig for 2018). Again, maybe.

[CanadaSteve]

53 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You haven't looked at how that process would play out.

Say you want to fire Bowles now but give Mac another year or two. OK, fine. Problem is what to do if (when) it's more of the same from Maccagnan: you'll then want to replace him since, unlike in Jan 2017, you're now sure you want to dump him as well. 

Now it's January 2018 or January 2019 and you want to fire Maccagnan. What do you do with the still-coaching replacement for Bowles that was just hired in 2017? Are you going to fire him as well, after only 1 or 2 seasons (the first being an obvious rebuild mulligan year), or are you going to tell the next GM candidates if they are hired they have to keep the current HC at least through the 2019 season?

See the problem now? Regretfully, they both should return for 2017. 

If you fire Mac, we are just spinning our wheels.  You have to give a GM 3-4 years, and in most cases your coach as well.  In Mac's case, perhaps he should get to hand-pick a coach, but...

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

If you fire Mac, we are just spinning our wheels.  You have to give a GM 3-4 years, and in most cases your coach as well.  In Mac's case, perhaps he should get to hand-pick a coach, but...

I don't have to do anything. I didn't hire him and he doesn't work for me.

If he hand-picks a HC then you're giving him 5 years -- effectively a 3 year extension after his failure of 2 seasons so far.

Continuing to employ bad people far more aptly defines "just spinning wheels" than would hiring their superior and competent replacements. The sad reality is that the one who'd hire his replacement wouldn't know a competent GM candidate from a Band-Aid.

[CanadaSteve]

10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't have to do anything. I didn't hire him and he doesn't work for me.

If he hand-picks a HC then you're giving him 5 years -- effectively a 3 year extension after his failure of 2 seasons so far.

Continuing to employ bad people far more aptly defines "just spinning wheels" than would hiring their superior and competent replacements. The sad reality is that the one who'd hire his replacement wouldn't know a competent GM candidate from a Band-Aid.

Right...I forgot.  You hate him.  We should fire him then.  Everything he has done sucks.  All his picks have stunk, and all his FA's signings/trades have been a disaster.  Got it.

Should get a great GM candidate next year, and in 2019, and in 2021 etc.

[RutgersJetFan]

13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't have to do anything. I didn't hire him and he doesn't work for me.

No. You have to. HAVE to. It's a thing. 

[CanadaSteve]

Just now, RutgersJetFan said:

No. You have to. HAVE to. It's a thing. 

Seriously?  Sorry I don't agree that we should fire another GM after 2 years.  But hey, I should just listen to all you guys, right? 

[Sperm Edwards]

5 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

No. You have to. HAVE to. It's a thing. 

I'll show you my thing, you cuddly man you.

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

Seriously?  Sorry I don't agree that we should fire another GM after 2 years.  But hey, I should just listen to all you guys, right? 

I accept your apology.

[Raideraholic]

On December 19, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Mogglez said:

He spent a 2nd rounder on a QB 2 years after drafting one with a 4th round pick (who is already out of the league).  So far we have only spent a 2nd and a 4th round pick on QBs.  It's also a lot easier to nab impact players, who can contribute right away, when the team you're in charge of sucks so badly that you pick top 5 every single year until you hit gold on a franchise QB...except, looking back at his drafts prior to Carr, that wasn't the case with McKenzie and your "he showed that understood the draft and positional value...so I get why he got 3 years to find one" and "The dude has landed at least 3 impact players in every draft he's had" statements are just flat-out wrong.  Also it was really cute to ignore the players like Mauldin, Jordan Jenkins, Deon Simon, Robby Anderson, Lachlan Edwards who have shown that they belong in this league.  Lee, whether you like him or not, since we've argued that before, has played well too and looks like he will get better with experience.

Cherry picked arguments. Yay!!!!

Reggie Mckenize Qb decisions almost cost him his job .( well in the fans and media eyes) . Let's see trading away C Palmer ( salary dump after he cost them a first and second round pick) . Trading for Matt Flynn, and Matt Schaub .     ( both bad trades as both were clearly beaten out by young Qb's.    ( T Pryor , and D Carr) What it shows is  till you find a Qb, you have to keep trying to get one any way possible - whether by trade or through the draft.( expect a lot of failures along the way).

Yes Reggie Mckenize missed in the fourth round on Tyler Wilson, but he didn't try to keep him on the roster to justify using that pick.   Instead the Raiders kept undrafted Fa Matt Mcgloin instead , because he clearly beat him out for the job.    That was important because it showed future undrafted Fa's that you had legitimate shot to win a roster spot if you performed, even over drafted players.( Raiders have done very well in the undrafted Fa market under Mckenize.

Matt Mcgloin was a nice story , but the Raiders were under no illusions that he could be anything better than a backup Qb.   So if you don't have a Qb , there was no doubt you keep drafting a Qb till you find one.( Derek Carr).

[Raideraholic]

On December 20, 2016 at 1:03 AM, CanadaSteve said:

No he has not!  There isn't anyone on the team from his first draft in 2012, and only a handful left from his 2013 draft where he had 10 picks. 

No need to point out all the fans on this site who would have had him fired by then.  I mean, BOTH his #1's from 2012-2013 drafts are gone!  Yet, they kept him on.  And what did he do?  In 2014 and 15, those two drafts alone netted him about 6 starters (including a franchise QB), and about 4 solid back-ups.  This last draft netted 2 starters, 2 back-ups and another QB prospect.

AMAZING what happens when you give someone more than 2 years before you fire them!

Like it or not, Mac needs to be able to conduct 4 drafts to get an honest assessment.  

First off you couple of your points are flat out wrong.    ( Raiders didn't have a first , second or third round pick ( their own) in the 2012 draft . ( first pick was compensation pick- really a fourth rounder)     Second Raiders first round draft Dj Hayden in 2013 was the starting  nickel CB for the Raiders for most of this year.( he's on injured reserve- on ly reason he isn't listed on the roster.

To be fair to Mckenize .  Due to the Carson Palmer trade, and the Terrell Pryor drafting in the supplemental draft( third round)  . the Raiders didn't have a draft pick before the third round ( their own) in 2012 .( really a fourth round pick ) . Not to mention the previous scouts( under Al Davis) not his guys did most of the draft reports.     Also he had to modernize the Raiders scouting department that was very outdated under Al Davis.

2013 draft was just a very weak draft  League wide.( look at that first round ).    Sio Moore was a very good player till he hurt his hip .( was never the same after that injury).  Menelik Watson clearly is one of the Raiders five best offenselineman today.    He  clearly better than Austin Howard , but inability to stay healthy has cost him the starting job.   M Watson still has good chance to be the Raiders eventually replacement for Lt Donald  Penn. ( he's a Fa that Raiders should be able to re-sign at very nice rate due to his injury history). 

[JiFtheOracle]

9 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I'm out shopping (last minute) but this is a healthy debate that I'm enjoying so gonna try and continue it and address you as soundly as I can without scattering my thoughts because of the chaos around me.

I don't want to be Maccagnan's "crusader", I just don't get how anyone (not saying you JiF, but there have been some) can be in full blown "fire Macc" mode when his first draft hasn't even been given a full 3 years to mature, which I  personally should be the minimum amount of time given before blasting the players selected.  I don't know what those people want or expect, but Maccagnan being fired this early is a one way ticket to landing us Idzik 2.0.  I like the drafts so far and when you objectively look at the individuals performances and factor in where they have been drafted, it's really not as bleak as many of us think.  The "CAP issue" is easily remedied with the way the contracts he's drawn up have been structured and there are definitely some young pieces here to build around. If Hack or someone else he selects becomes "that guy", then we'll all be singing his praises.  That's just how this business is.  I know I'm in the minority, but I like Hack and think if he's groomed the right way, he can be "the guy" for us.  That all being said, if Macc doesn't land that big fish, then I will criticize him just the same.  I do have minor quarrels with some of the things he's done, but none are strong enough for me to jump the gun on him in year 2.  

All in all we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on the "terrible" part because I personally feel our 2015 class is pretty equal to Reggie's 2014 class....minus the QB of course (so far, but I doubt Petty is the future of this team).  Stud defensive player who will be a cornerstone for years and some good depth guys.  It's far too early to grade this class as a whole and the same applies to his 2016 class. I also don't think it would be fair to give ANY GM (minus Idzik) less than 2 coaches.  Macc didn't "hire" Bowles and while I think Todd can still turn his career around, I'm indifferent towards firing him after this year at this point.  Especially if there is a clear cut better choice.  The performances have been that bad.

*For the record, I count UDFAs as "picks" for any team because you still need to scout them and convince them to sign with you over other choices.  That's why I included guys like Anderson*

Fair.  And I'm not saying fire Mac.  But I'm extremely nervous because so far, he's not getting any returns outside of Williams and Anderson and you can typically see something to cling to with a player even if it's their first year.  I cant say that about this draft class, although Snell didnt look terrible out there.  I get it takes a few years to truly assess the class but you can typically see some early returns and unfortunately, the Jets havent.

You can like Hack all you want but him not even dressing as a 2nd round pick is mind boggling and nerve racking.  Mac acted like they were a couple of pieces away and that back fired badly IMO.  

2 drafts, 1 player making an impact.  That's bleak IMO.  

 

 

[ZachEY]

13 hours ago, flgreen said:

I honestly don't now what your basing the fact that Carr was a much better prospect then Petty coming out on.

Carr had good stats at Fresno State, but Petty's were better at Baylor.  Petty received the Offensive MVP in a Bowl game lose to Michigan State.  it is really rare that the losing QB gets MVP.

Petty fell from a 1st round pick to a 4th because on opening day of his Senior season, he broke two bones in his back and played in great discomfort the rest of the season.  He didn't have as good a year as he had his junior year.  His QB rating was still higher then Carr's .

The real reason Petty fell was that he had an awful Senior Bowl week.  From what I had read at the time it looked like he had never played under center, been in a huddle, or had a play book.  He hadn't.

Petty has come a 1,000 miles since his awful Senior Bowl week.   He has definitely shown the ability to accept coaching and is clearly a fast learner with the few reps he's had.

Not saying he is where he needs to be right now, he's not, but anyone writing him off because of his draft position is making a mistake

I'm not sure what all these words are for... I don't remember saying anything about where he was drafted... But, while we're on the subject, you know who had good college stats?  Tim Tebow!  JaMarcus Russel!  Johnny Manziel!  Geno Smith!  Tahj Boyd!  Shall I continue?

Also, you know when we'll know we have a QB?  When you don't need 6 mini-paragraphs to justify that we might have one, the last of which acknowledging that he's "not where he needs to be."

[CanadaSteve]

6 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

First off you couple of your points are flat out wrong.    ( Raiders didn't have a first , second or third round pick ( their own) in the 2012 draft . ( first pick was compensation pick- really a fourth rounder)     Second Raiders first round draft Dj Hayden in 2013 was the starting  nickel CB for the Raiders for most of this year.( he's on injured reserve- on ly reason he isn't listed on the roster.

 

I addressed this already Raideraholic.  I meant his first pick in the draft, not his first round pick.  I am just too lazy to go and edit all the posts so I can make it clearer.

And again, I think I mentioned that about Hayden in one of my reply's about Hayden.  Maybe not though.

As far as how Hayden changes things as it refers to Mac, then lets say Mac needs to find two bona-fide starters from his first two drafts.  I think that is not going to be an issue. 

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

Fair.  And I'm not saying fire Mac.  But I'm extremely nervous because so far, he's not getting any returns outside of Williams and Anderson and you can typically see something to cling to with a player even if it's their first year.  I cant say that about this draft class, although Snell didnt look terrible out there.  I get it takes a few years to truly assess the class but you can typically see some early returns and unfortunately, the Jets havent.

You can like Hack all you want but him not even dressing as a 2nd round pick is mind boggling and nerve racking.  Mac acted like they were a couple of pieces away and that back fired badly IMO.  

2 drafts, 1 player making an impact.  That's bleak IMO.  

 

 

But this is where I am just looking for understanding from some of the guys on here. 

As what Raideraholic said, I can only imagine what Raider fans and media were saying when Mackenzie came in, got rid of Palmer, dumped a bunch of salaries, and started signing/drafting QB's like it was the end of the NFL.  But now, five years in, his plan is looking good.

I just disagree with the assessment of some of our players.  I think you have 2 starters in Williams and Lee.  I think you might have a starter in Jenkins.  Mauldin did not progress as planned, and may just be a situational pass-rusher.  Not bad for a 3rd round pick.  Anderson is a UDFA, Peake was a 7th rounder who has potential.

I get the Hack pick.....But if he was picked up in the 4th round, would you personally still dislike the pick.  Is it the fact he was picked in the 2nd round that bothers you?  Devon Smith, again....he looked good coming out.  I liked the kid, and thought he would be pretty good.  So far, nothing.  Sometimes drafting is a crap shoot.

I just think if we fire Mac now, we are back to square one and will need another five years to see where we are at.  Why not give him two more years, and if it does not look like we have much, then fire him.  If the sh*t I have been reading about Idzik is true, then he sabotaged this team for his agenda.  He'll never get another chance.  Giving him two years made sense if that was the case; but only giving Mac two years?  I just don't see the logic in it.  Maybe its just me!

[UntouchableCrew]

On 12/19/2016 at 2:30 PM, JiF said:

Amazing what a franchise QB can do for a team...

Amazing what it does for a young QB to surround him with an elite offensive line and great wide receivers...