Why hasn't that loser Brant Boyer been fired yet?

[FlagmanL11]

32 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

When a coach or a player signs on with the Jets, it's usually just not that person, but their family if they have a family . For the most part, I would venture to say that most coaches don't have the time to socialize on the message boards of their teams, but it's almost a certainty that some member of their family does .  Imagine you're that family member and you log on only to read your dad is a loser, or your brother, or son or even daughter . 

Some of you folks ought to be a shame of yourself  with some of the comments I have to read . It's ok to be upset, and it's ok to want change, but personal insults against people you have very little knowledge about is wrong .  Questioning someone's intelligence base on what happens on a football field to make yourself feel better is miserable . What's more is all this is ruining a really nice message board

Sermon over.

That is all .

When you get paid the big bucks, and take a job the is viewed by the public, you are under the microscope.  If you dont like it go back to private industry.  Coaches are criticized from pee wee on up when they suck (Rich Kotite) and praised when they do well (ex Bill Parcells) 

[Tinstar]

5 minutes ago, FlagmanL11 said:

When you get paid the big bucks, and take a job the is viewed by the public, you are under the microscope.  If you dont like it go back to private industry.  Coaches are criticized from pee wee on up when they suck (Rich Kotite) and praised when they do well (ex Bill Parcells) 

If you can't differentiate  between what I posted and criticizing a Coach or a player, then I don't know what to tell you . 

"Be angry, but sin not "

Live a Little longer, maybe you'll get it .

[Green DNA]

20 minutes ago, FlagmanL11 said:

As a PSL holder, with a stake in this mess, they should fire this special teams coach.  If this guy was worth anything, there would have been a lot if a$$es chewed out on the sideline.  How many times did we have to see guys running the ball out of the endzone only to end up between the 10 and 15 yard line?  To me that is coaching and accountability.  There was none as it happened repeatedly.  So here we have another coach who did not hold players accountable.  Sh!7 starts at the top and flows downstream.... 

Not fielding punts inside the 10 yard line would be a pretty good idea also.  When it happens once, it is probably the player.  When it happens repeatedly, it is coaching.

[sourceworx]

54 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Almost every year there's a "can't miss" QB prospect coming along that we MUST tank for ... then he turns to average or worse, or maybe gets injured, and it's all just so much talk.

I still recall people advocating Tank for Teddy, because Bridgewater was going to be THE GUY!!!! How did that work out?? He was lucky not to fall out of the 1st round completely.

I guess the grass is always greener next year ... 

Yep. I remember discussions about tanking for Hackenberg after his freshman year. 

[Tinstar]

51 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Almost every year there's a "can't miss" QB prospect coming along that we MUST tank for ... then he turns to average or worse, or maybe gets injured, and it's all just so much talk.

I still recall people advocating Tank for Teddy, because Bridgewater was going to be THE GUY!!!! How did that work out?? He was lucky not to fall out of the 1st round completely.

I guess the grass is always greener next year ... 

 I think someone once said:  "You play to win the Game" .   Certain teams might have done some things that would assist them in not winning, but you can be sure that the players who were on the field were trying to win .

[jamesr]

Just now, Tinstar said:

 I think someone once said:  "You play to win the Game" .   Certain teams might have done some things that would assist them in not winning, but you can be sure that the players who were on the field were trying to win .

This is why I never understand how a team would execute a plan to tank ... you're telling coaches to choose to get fired, and players to damage their reputation / future earnings, to potentially benefit the owner and fans of the team that is going to cut them??

Short of benching all your starters under the premise of "seeing what we've got" ... it just doesn't work for me. Hell, even Cleveland tried their hardest to give the #1 pick to SF these past two weeks, by winning one game and coming oh-so-close to an OT win vs. Pittsburgh.

 

[LIJetsFan]

11 hours ago, JetFanWithNOPSL2017 said:

 

 

Pretty much on target CMart.

Still hoping for some action to clean out some of the worst of the misery wallowers so this place can remain the best forum for Jet discussion
 

 

 

My iggy list has been growing steadily.  Almost all good now.

[Jet Nut]

34 minutes ago, FlagmanL11 said:

As a PSL holder, with a stake in this mess, they should fire this special teams coach.  If this guy was worth anything, there would have been a lot if a$$es chewed out on the sideline.  How many times did we have to see guys running the ball out of the endzone only to end up between the 10 and 15 yard line?  To me that is coaching and accountability.  There was none as it happened repeatedly.  So here we have another coach who did not hold players accountable.  Sh!7 starts at the top and flows downstream.... 

Accountability?  What does that have to due with lack of talent or the turnover this STs unit went through due to injuries?  If you aren't a KR all the yelling in he world isn't going to make you one.  All the yelling in the world isn't going to make a rookie punter, who everyone raved about, going from bottom of the league to the top.  Getting pissed and firing people just to assign blame doesn't fix anything

[Integrity28]

9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

That would be Pepper Johnson.  Had the most talented unit and failed. 

Position coaches coach technique. Coordinators and Defensive-minded HC's scheme, call plays and make decisions. 

Pepper Johnson is a scapegoat. Kacey Rodgers isn't a real coordinator, and Bowles can't be both DC and HC. Clearly.

[#27TheDominator]

Scapegoat or not, Pepper Johnson is an idiot.  He coaches technique and forbids one of the most successful ones.  So long carpet bagger. 

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Position coaches coach technique. Coordinators and Defensive-minded HC's scheme, call plays and make decisions. 

Pepper Johnson is a scapegoat. Kacey Rodgers isn't a real coordinator, and Bowles can't be both DC and HC. Clearly.

Position coaches carry the message from the Coordinator.  The message didn't get through.  We'll see where the disconnect was.  There is no unit as talented and highly regarded as the DL.  They not only didn't dominate as everyone predicted, they regressed an played uninspired football.  That's the position coach. Pepper Johnson was rumored all year to be a problem and a candidate to be fired.  

[Integrity28]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Position coaches carry the message from the Coordinator.  The message didn't get through.  We'll see where the disconnect was.  There is no unit as talented and highly regarded as the DL.  They not only didn't dominate as everyone predicted, they regressed an played uninspired football.  That's the position coach. Pepper Johnson was rumored all year to be a problem and a candidate to be fired.  

That's nice. It's an embarrassment that Rodgers wasn't fired as well, for reasons already stated. 

It's not as if this was a choice between firing one or the other. They both sucked at their jobs.

[JETSfaninNE]

13 hours ago, #90 said:

The Jets Special Teams were 31st...DEAD LAST in the league. Yes, he needs to be fired. Westhoff pointed out the mistakes week after week. Do I need to go any further?

Westhoff in the final postgame of the year said Boyer didn't deserve to be fired due to the injuries and not having a complete unit, guys were coming off the street to play ST.  You can only do so much when you are setup to fail.  Boyer will be fine.  This year is an aberration. 

[Ex-Rex]

13 hours ago, #90 said:

He was certainly the worst coach on staff and that is not an easy thing to accomplish with the current group. The guy is totally clueless. Westhoff would point out Special Teams gaffs every week. FIRE HIS ASS!!

Westhoff is LOOKING for things to criticize, but I agree that Boyer is not very good. Neither is Kacy Rogers, who distracts Bowles so much that he is almost the defacto DC.

[FlagmanL11]

28 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Accountability?  What does that have to due with lack of talent or the turnover this STs unit went through due to injuries?  If you aren't a KR all the yelling in he world isn't going to make you one.  All the yelling in the world isn't going to make a rookie punter, who everyone raved about, going from bottom of the league to the top.  Getting pissed and firing people just to assign blame doesn't fix anything

The did have experienced kick returners.  Accountability is doing what you are told, and accountability is giving proper direction, aka coaching.  One would think that you do not try to return a kick off from 5 yards deep in the endzone time after time.  Ross (who was a career returner) did that all the time and it cost yards.  Not sure if the staff understood that you get the ball at the 25.  

[sourceworx]

33 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Scapegoat or not, Pepper Johnson is an idiot.  He coaches technique and forbids one of the most successful ones.  So long carpet bagger. 

One thing I never understood were coaches teaching players a position they didn't play themselves. Pepper Johnson had a successful career as a linebacker. Why wasn't he coaching that position group? 

And that isn't a slam on the Jets. Other teams have assistant coaches doing the same thing. 

[#27TheDominator]

26 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

One thing I never understood were coaches teaching players a position they didn't play themselves. Pepper Johnson had a successful career as a linebacker. Why wasn't he coaching that position group? 

And that isn't a slam on the Jets. Other teams have assistant coaches doing the same thing. 

Eh.  I don't think you have to have played.  Mangini was probably a very good position coach and he barely played at all.  He hs coached offense, defense and special teams. Most of these guys played positions based solely on their size/speed ratio and the whim of whatever college coach wanted to shoehorn them into their program.  How does the old saying go?  Those that can, do;  Those that can't, teach;  Those that can't teach, teach gym.  Johnson was a D line coach for ages with the Pats.  It is the fact that he never moved up the chain or was offered a job anywhere else for a decade may be most telling.  

[Beerfish]

I totally agree with #90 on this one, we had horrible special teams under April and actually got worse under this guy.  I also like people absolving him of any blame because he had back ups and bums on specials.  Which is not different than any other team in the league.

Furthermore if we started making a list of all these backups and bums people would be out raged we are ripping guys like Jalen marshall, middleton, martin, Jenkins, lee  etc etc

For specials I'd keep firing them every year until i find a guy that actually improves them.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Scapegoat or not, Pepper Johnson is an idiot.  He coaches technique and forbids one of the most successful ones.  So long carpet bagger. 

Agreed. I'm not advocating he should have kept his job. I'm just saying the firings came up short on holding the right people accountable.

[hokiejetfan92]

1 hour ago, sourceworx said:

One thing I never understood were coaches teaching players a position they didn't play themselves. Pepper Johnson had a successful career as a linebacker. Why wasn't he coaching that position group? 

And that isn't a slam on the Jets. Other teams have assistant coaches doing the same thing. 

That just comes in with getting hired. Say you are a former nfl LB-er only average and wanna get into coaching. You have a buddie in the college ranks who has an opening for a D-Line coach. Compared to the alternatives they are hiring, you are a former NFL player, you have a very unique experience playing football billions others do not. you can learn from other coaches the key differences and perhaps he played lineman in college or high school.

After a year or two of experience you probably are gonna be just as good a coach at DLineman than LBer. A NFL team wants to hire you, you are a former NFL LB-er with 2 years of D-line coaching? Sounds like someone who wants to be a DC instead of just a position coach. Gotta have ambition man!

[#27TheDominator]

12 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Agreed. I'm not advocating he should have kept his job. I'm just saying the firings came up short on holding the right people accountable.

Depends what you think they are supposed to accomplish.  Are those guys the reason the team was 5-11?  Certainly not, but firing guys puts people on notice and shows ownership doesn't have its head completely in the sand.  Also, new blood produces new ideas and maybe gets somebody to whom the players will have to be accountable.

Not an answer, but a message.  Almost never works, but I think it has to be done.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, FlagmanL11 said:

The did have experienced kick returners.  Accountability is doing what you are told, and accountability is giving proper direction, aka coaching.  One would think that you do not try to return a kick off from 5 yards deep in the endzone time after time.  Ross (who was a career returner) did that all the time and it cost yards.  Not sure if the staff understood that you get the ball at the 25.  

The KRs weren't experienced.  Or the rest of the unit.  If you don't have talent all the yelling or instruction will do any good. 

[FlagmanL11]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

The KRs weren't experienced.  Or the rest of the unit.  If you don't have talent all the yelling or instruction will do any good. 

They signed Jeremy Ross as a experienced returner.  It does not take rocket science to figure out what to run back or take a knee.  

Jeremy Spencer Ross (born March 16, 1988) is an American football wide receiver and return specialist for the Arizona Cardinals of the National Football League (NFL). He was signed by the New England Cheaters as an undrafted free agent in 2011. He played college football at California.

Ross has also been a member of the Indianapolis Colts, Green Bay Packers, Detroit Lions, Baltimore Ravens, Oakland Raiders, and New York Jets.

During a game against the Philadelphia Eagles on December 8, 2013, Ross scored touchdowns on both a punt return and a kickoff return. This made him the first Lions player to do so since Eddie Payton on December 17, 1977

[Tinstar]

1 hour ago, sourceworx said:

One thing I never understood were coaches teaching players a position they didn't play themselves. Pepper Johnson had a successful career as a linebacker. Why wasn't he coaching that position group? 

And that isn't a slam on the Jets. Other teams have assistant coaches doing the same thing. 

Any Coach with any ambition to be a Defensive Coordinator or more should teach as many positions on defense as possible . Take for example a kid like Kevin Patulla who started out as a college QB . He then became a quality control coach breaking down film . Then he move up to WR coach, teaching routes that he learned while breaking down film. Then he moved on to QBs coach all under the guidance of Chan Gailey where the plan was that he would assume whatever offensive coordinator position Gailey decided to retire from probably  with Gailey in an advisory position that 1st yr .

That should be the desire of any coach with ambition . 

[Jet Life]

Not even worth swapping. Everyone will be fired after next season anyway

[Jet Nut]

6 minutes ago, FlagmanL11 said:

They signed Jeremy Ross as a experienced returner.  It does not take rocket science to figure out what to run back or take a knee.  

Jeremy Spencer Ross (born March 16, 1988) is an American football wide receiver and return specialist for the Arizona Cardinals of the National Football League (NFL). He was signed by the New England Cheaters as an undrafted free agent in 2011. He played college football at California.

Ross has also been a member of the Indianapolis Colts, Green Bay Packers, Detroit Lions, Baltimore Ravens, Oakland Raiders, and New York Jets.

During a game against the Philadelphia Eagles on December 8, 2013, Ross scored touchdowns on both a punt return and a kickoff return. This made him the first Lions player to do so since Eddie Payton on December 17, 1977

How many games did Ross play? 6?  A return specialist, who's spot needed to be filled by someone who could fill in for the injured.  

Point is accontability by a player isn't playing well.  You make it sound like if the players listen to the yelling we would have won the division   Need talent, not a better STs coach.  

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, Jet Life said:

Not even worth swapping. Everyone will be fired after next season anyway

I being a Jet fan and hoping for the best for my team, hope that the new coaching staff  gels, the players all buy in and we have a successful season that end in the playoffs .

I sell 3 things:

Faith in an undeserving mankind

Hope for an undeserving mankind

Love for an undeserving mankind

Interested  ? 

End Sermon .

That is all .

[FlagmanL11]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

How many games did Ross play? 6?  A return specialist, who's spot needed to be filled by someone who could fill in for the injured.  

Point is accontability by a player isn't playing well.  You make it sound like if the players listen to the yelling we would have won the division   Need talent, not a better STs coach.  

Was looking all year for some fire on this team.  My seats are in the endzone Mezz and I watched those returns all season and it was mind boggling.  There is a total lack of fire in the coaching staff.  

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

That's nice. It's an embarrassment that Rodgers wasn't fired as well, for reasons already stated. 

It's not as if this was a choice between firing one or the other. They both sucked at their jobs.

It's not even close to an embarrassment.  Bowles sees it this way.  If he's as bad as you say he'll be gone, maybe both will be gone.  Doubt Bowles doesn't want to win, keep his job.  There were complaints about Pepper all year.  His unit was easily the biddest failure given their talent and draft status.  

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, FlagmanL11 said:

Was looking all year for some fire on this team.  My seats are in the endzone Mezz and I watched those returns all season and it was mind boggling.  There is a total lack of fire in the coaching staff.  

Agree, they weren't good.  That's what happens when you lack talent or keep subbing players in and out of the unit

[68JET11]

One thing I never understood when watching special teams this year. I understand he might not have had all the players he wanted and had to use some scrubs, but he was kind of a disaster. Punt coverage was always over run, so the returner always looked like he had a clear lane to the end zone. On kickoffs us receiving, we never could get it out past the 20. What were the blocking schemes ???  It's puzzling and I think that's on coaching, not players.

[Integrity28]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

It's not even close to an embarrassment.  Bowles sees it this way.  If he's as bad as you say he'll be gone, maybe both will be gone.  Doubt Bowles doesn't want to win, keep his job.  There were complaints about Pepper all year.  His unit was easily the biddest failure given their talent and draft status.  

I'm not going to argue about this, because I think you're splitting hairs, and frankly I'll probably type something you deem "being a prick" and flip out.

Rodgers keeping his job, but all of the position group coordinators getting fired, is a joke. Given that the collective defense was an abomination, it makes no sense whatsoever to remove position coaches, but retain the guy who leads it all.

This is my opinion. I'm not asking you to agree with it. I'm also not asking you to keep telling me my opinion is wrong, because well... it's my opinion.

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

One thing I never understood when watching special teams this year. I understand he might not have had all the players he wanted and had to use some scrubs, but he was kind of a disaster. Punt coverage was always over run, so the returner always looked like he had a clear lane to the end zone. On kickoffs us receiving, we never could get it out past the 20. What were the blocking schemes ???  It's puzzling and I think that's on coaching, not players.

On punt coverage I saw a lot of young guys coming too far inside and giving up the corner.  I know we all hate Devin Smith and it isn't worth a 2nd rounder, but he seems pretty damn good on punt cover. Somebody mentioned Ross, how long was he here?  4 games?  What about the other quarter of the season?  I don't think any team has very good blocking schemes on kick offs now.  My question is why do they take it out so much?  Jalin Marshall seems to have true talent as a punt/kick returner and tweener WR, but he keeps putting the ball on the floor.  I am not sure if it is guys trying to make a big play to get a job or the coach asking them to try the return.

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

I'm not going to argue about this, because I think you're splitting hairs, and frankly I'll probably type something you deem "being a prick" and flip out.

Rodgers keeping his job, but all of the position group coordinators getting fired, is a joke. Given that the collective defense was an abomination, it makes no sense whatsoever to remove position coaches, but retain the guy who leads it all.

This is my opinion. I'm not asking you to agree with it. I'm also not asking you to keep telling me my opinion is wrong, because well... it's my opinion.

You are a prick, aren't you?  I thought most of us were. The thing about the abomination, at least early in the year, is that a bunch of it seemed to come on blown coverages.  I am not sure where that comes from, but i wasn't necessarily bad scheme, just guys being out of position.  You could actually see the players pointing fingers at each other on the field. Sure some of it was Revis getting toasted (Marquise Goodwin SMH) I think that is why there were so many long touchdowns.  I am sure it evened out some later and the blowout next to last week against NE was an all-around disgrace, but I wonder what was going on.  Didnn't see much press on it, but it seemed fairly fixable.

[Integrity28]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You are a prick, aren't you?  I thought most of us were. The thing about the abomination, at least early in the year, is that a bunch of it seemed to come on blown coverages.  I am not sure where that comes from, but i wasn't necessarily bad scheme, just guys being out of position.  You could actually see the players pointing fingers at each other on the field. Sure some of it was Revis getting toasted (Marquise Goodwin SMH) I think that is why there were so many long touchdowns.  I am sure it evened out some later and the blowout next to last week against NE was an all-around disgrace, but I wonder what was going on.  Didnn't see much press on it, but it seemed fairly fixable.

Eh, I think we'll find out the hard way how fixable it ends up being.