Who's willing to go on record about the QBs

[SenorGato]

This shouldn't even be a contest. Watson is the man. 

[bitonti]

it just came out that Watson's throwing velocity at the combine was an atrocious 49 MPH

http://www.ninersnation.com/2017/3/11/14893540/the-nail-in-the-coffin-for-watson

that's noodle arm territory folks. There's never been a QB in the NFL who found success throwing less than 55 MPH 

 

a couple have been decent at 54 but 49 is off the map bad

if you look at the film he really does put everything his whole body into deep balls. 

this could turn Watson into more of a high 2nd 

the only QB at 6 that's even possibly worth the pick is Trubisky. He will be gone somewhere in the 10-13 range if the Jets don't take him 

Watson? Great player but his value is dropping like a rock after those MPH came out. 

[SickJetFan]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it just came out that Watson's throwing velocity at the combine was an atrocious 49 MPH

http://www.ninersnation.com/2017/3/11/14893540/the-nail-in-the-coffin-for-watson

that's noodle arm territory folks. There's never been a QB in the NFL who found success throwing less than 55 MPH 

 

a couple have been decent at 54 but 49 is off the map bad

if you look at the film he really does put everything his whole body into deep balls. 

this could turn Watson into more of a high 2nd 

the only QB at 6 that's even possibly worth the pick is Trubisky. He will be gone somewhere in the 10-13 range if the Jets don't take him 

Watson? Great player but his value is dropping like a rock after those MPH came out. 

Yeah saw that last week.  No wonder he threw so many int.

[JiFtheOracle]

21 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it just came out that Watson's throwing velocity at the combine was an atrocious 49 MPH

http://www.ninersnation.com/2017/3/11/14893540/the-nail-in-the-coffin-for-watson

that's noodle arm territory folks. There's never been a QB in the NFL who found success throwing less than 55 MPH 

 

a couple have been decent at 54 but 49 is off the map bad

if you look at the film he really does put everything his whole body into deep balls. 

this could turn Watson into more of a high 2nd 

the only QB at 6 that's even possibly worth the pick is Trubisky. He will be gone somewhere in the 10-13 range if the Jets don't take him 

Watson? Great player but his value is dropping like a rock after those MPH came out. 

I'm confused.  Is there a fast ball drill at the combine?  How did they measure this?  

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'm confused.  Is there a fast ball drill at the combine?  How did they measure this?  

they use a radar gun when they throw and record all throws. Those numbers are the highest recorded during all the throws of the session. 

These are the numbers from 2008-2016. Sadly we don't have Chad Pennington's number for comparison. 

 

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2016/03/02/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/

there are also balls with computer chips in them that get used at pro days sometimes. I don't think they use those balls at the Combine though. 

[NoBowles]

Well, one less box checked for Watson

[Persiussa]

I see people talking about "tanking" and how the team would never do it but that's not how this works.  The Jets have dismantled this team in a way that they could lose many games because of the talent pool.  This is the only way to tank in football.  A loss of talent.  It could actually happen and this could be our shot at the #1 pick because of legitimate personnel decisions not because the coach, GM or owner tells the team not to play hard.  It's true that no team will ever go down that road of telling the players to lose.

With that said i think we have a legitimate shot to be the worst team in football this year and i'm gonna roll the dice and say no QB in 2016 unless he's from the mid rounds.  take the best non QB and take a shot at Darnold or Rosen in 2018.  The worst thing about the Jets and the draft is that they've never had the #1 pick when a great QB was coming out.  This could be it.

If they did pick a QB which is a realistic possibility (but not what i want to happen) then between everyone in this years crop i would want Watson and would accept it if they took Trubiski.  I'd be less than enthusiastic with Kizer and a bit mad if we took Mahomes before the 4th round.

[Jetsfan80]

So many QB's at the collegiate level look like they throw with adequate zip....but then you hand them a pro-sized ball.  It really makes a difference. 

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So many QB's at the collegiate level look like they throw with adequate zip....but then you hand them a pro-sized ball.  It really makes a difference. 

This is exactly my fear with Watson, that he does everything well except throw the football accurately and with enough zip all the time. It seems like the NFL takes all of those passes that are six inches off, or a millisecond late, and turns them into interceptions.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

This is exactly my fear with Watson, that he does everything well except throw the football accurately and with enough zip all the time. It seems like the NFL takes all of those passes that are six inches off, or a millisecond late, and turns them into interceptions.

Yep.  Getting used to the speed of the game is a lot easier for a QB if he has an arm.  Almost impossible if he doesn't.

One day....one of these days.....we'll get a QB with an arm capable of cutting through the wind at the Meadowlands.  But that is not this day. 

[Be_a_Jet]

Always been against Jets drafting a QB - just dont have faith in us picking the right one. Deshaun Watson changed that for me. I may end up being wrong but I'm putting all my chips on him.

[dcJet]

No Qb.  I want a trade down for a pick next year.  If we cant find a partner, I want offense.  Fournette please.

[NoBowles]

9 hours ago, Be_a_Jet said:

Always been against Jets drafting a QB - just dont have faith in us picking the right one. Deshaun Watson changed that for me. I may end up being wrong but I'm putting all my chips on him.

Playing at least 10 games a year in the Northeast, you absolutely cannot take a QB with questionable arm strength with the 6th overall pick. I think he drops to the second round, in which case by all means grab him.

[JiFtheOracle]

10 hours ago, bitonti said:

they use a radar gun when they throw and record all throws. Those numbers are the highest recorded during all the throws of the session. 

These are the numbers from 2008-2016. Sadly we don't have Chad Pennington's number for comparison. 

 

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2016/03/02/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/

there are also balls with computer chips in them that get used at pro days sometimes. I don't think they use those balls at the Combine though. 

I've literally never heard of this before in all my years following the draft.  And not to be dismissive because I clearly see how this could be a concern but this seems far from full proof.  I'd be curious if this is a real concern and there is more accurate way of measuring it.  Some guys standing around trying to measure the exact release and exact timing of the catch seems faulty.  And your link claims they're the only source who measures this...Ourlads NFL draft guide is the only source that measures this.  Who the are they and who's radar gun were they using exactly?  Do they have people at the combine using their own gun?  Because clearly this isnt something the teams measure.

 

 

[JiFtheOracle]

10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So many QB's at the collegiate level look like they throw with adequate zip....but then you hand them a pro-sized ball.  It really makes a difference. 

Sure.  But he sure liked like the best guy throwing the ball.  Most zip, best accuracy, best ball placement.

I'd like to see what Bit knows about Ourlads NFL Draft Guide and the gentlemen that run the blog.  haha.  They are only source who measures the fast ball and they seem very legit. 

[JiFtheOracle]

11 hours ago, bitonti said:

it just came out that Watson's throwing velocity at the combine was an atrocious 49 MPH

http://www.ninersnation.com/2017/3/11/14893540/the-nail-in-the-coffin-for-watson

that's noodle arm territory folks. There's never been a QB in the NFL who found success throwing less than 55 MPH 

 

a couple have been decent at 54 but 49 is off the map bad

if you look at the film he really does put everything his whole body into deep balls. 

this could turn Watson into more of a high 2nd 

the only QB at 6 that's even possibly worth the pick is Trubisky. He will be gone somewhere in the 10-13 range if the Jets don't take him 

Watson? Great player but his value is dropping like a rock after those MPH came out. 

The other source is ninersnation.

[SickJetFan]

11 hours ago, bitonti said:

it just came out that Watson's throwing velocity at the combine was an atrocious 49 MPH

http://www.ninersnation.com/2017/3/11/14893540/the-nail-in-the-coffin-for-watson

that's noodle arm territory folks. There's never been a QB in the NFL who found success throwing less than 55 MPH 

 

a couple have been decent at 54 but 49 is off the map bad

if you look at the film he really does put everything his whole body into deep balls. 

this could turn Watson into more of a high 2nd 

the only QB at 6 that's even possibly worth the pick is Trubisky. He will be gone somewhere in the 10-13 range if the Jets don't take him 

Watson? Great player but his value is dropping like a rock after those MPH came out. 

I think this is a positive when it comes to Mike Williams...How much of Watson success was Watson vs Williams the safety net who fought for all the balls.  I am curious to see how Williams does tomorrow at his pro day.

 

[NoBowles]

36 minutes ago, JiF said:

The other source is ninersnation.

Here is an article from a Browns site:

 

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/3/10/14890754/cleveland-browns-2017-nfl-scouting-combine-qb-velocity

 

 

[JiFtheOracle]

9 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Here is an article from a Browns site:

 

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/3/10/14890754/cleveland-browns-2017-nfl-scouting-combine-qb-velocity

 

 

Right and this all stems from Ourlads NFL Draft Blog.  I'm just questioning the validity of the source.  I'd like to know more about who and how they collect this data.

[NoBowles]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

Right and this all stems from Ourlads NFL Draft Blog.  I'm just questioning the validity of the source.  I'd like to know more about who and how they collect this data.

Yeah, I don't know the validity either, I'm trying to understand that as well

[SickJetFan]

11 minutes ago, JiF said:

Right and this all stems from Ourlads NFL Draft Blog.  I'm just questioning the validity of the source.  I'd like to know more about who and how they collect this data.

They have been doing this for years with the speed guns (whatever you call those things)

[CanadaSteve]

I will go on record as stating the Jets should NOT draft a QB at 6.  Too many holes, too many opportunities to get better at another position when you still have two young QB's on the roster....one of which has YET to play a snap in the NFL.

If the Jets can maneuver down the draft in the 1st round and pick up an extra 2nd, I will go on record saying one of the following three QB's will be available in the 2nd, and would consider taking one of them as a flyer, given we would still have another 2nd to fill an area of need:

Brad Kaaya

Patrick Mahomes

Josh Dobbs

Prediction:  We will draft one of those three in the 2nd round.  Going on record, will live with the glory or the ridicule of such prediction.

[thadude]

2 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Playing at least 10 games a year in the Northeast, you absolutely cannot take a QB with questionable arm strength 

No but we can take one who has never even played in the rain and make him starter for 16 games

[thadude]

17 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

I will go on record as stating the Jets should NOT draft a QB at 6.  Too many holes, too many opportunities to get better at another position when you still have two young QB's on the roster....one of which has YET to play a snap in the NFL.

If the Jets can maneuver down the draft in the 1st round and pick up an extra 2nd, I will go on record saying one of the following three QB's will be available in the 2nd, and would consider taking one of them as a flyer, given we would still have another 2nd to fill an area of need:

Brad Kaaya

Patrick Mahomes

Josh Dobbs

Prediction:  We will draft one of those three in the 2nd round.  Going on record, will live with the glory or the ridicule of such prediction.

We absolutely need a qb in either round 1 or round 2.  I wouldn't want Watson at 6 but would take him over our next mediocre First Round DB

[#27TheDominator]

FWIW, I think Glennon threw 49 mph too.  

I saw the numbers from some twitter draft geek Dane Brugler.  A bunch of places cited him.  No idea where he got them. Trubisky (55mph) and Kizer (56) on the cusp, Kaaya (53) below the cut.

[slats]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

FWIW, I think Glennon threw 49 mph too.  

I saw the numbers from some twitter draft geek Dane Brugler.  A bunch of places cited him.  No idea where he got them. Trubisky (55mph) and Kizer (56) on the cusp, Kaaya (53) below the cut.

According to that Ourlads link, he did. And he's super-awesome, so that discounts this theory. 

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, SickJetFan said:

I think this is a positive when it comes to Mike Williams...How much of Watson success was Watson vs Williams the safety net who fought for all the balls.  I am curious to see how Williams does tomorrow at his pro day.

 

Mike Williams missed the entire 2015 season with a broken neck -- the best statistical season of Watson's career.

In general Watson has played with a lot of talent around him -- guys from elite programs always do. But he's far more than one guy as a safety net.

Also, the arm strength stuff doesn't seem to be an issue to me. He has a good arm and throws with zip, dusting the other candidates at the combine in this regard. Accuracy seems to be a bigger issue with him, although as it's been said he gets better as the game goes on.

[JiFtheOracle]

1 hour ago, SickJetFan said:

They have been doing this for years with the speed guns (whatever you call those things)

Interesting.  I've literally never seen it before.  Since you have familiar with it can you fill me in on who does it, how they do it and why teams dont measure it?  And why is Ourland Draft Blog the only site who has the data? 

 

[JiFtheOracle]

I started to google this because I'm interested and like I said, never seen this before and I've followed the draft very closely for a long time.  The only site that claims to have this info is Ourlads.  No reputable source has this info, just this really neat blog.  

Here's an interesting article that basically poopoo's all over it.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2017/03/13/greg-gabriel-is-a-quarterbacks-velocity-an-indicator-of-how-good-he-will-be-in-the-nfl/a93ef5p/

"Most if not all of the top quarterbacks in the league never had their velocity measured at the Combine."

 

 

[JiFtheOracle]

Here is an article that NFL Network actually quotes the extremely reputable Ourlads.  I couldnt find this season but this is last years.  The extremely reputable Ourlands has only been doing this since 2008 and many Qb's have opted not to throw at the combine.  

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000640929/article/lynch-goff-create-most-velocity-on-combine-throws

[SickJetFan]

7 minutes ago, JiF said:

Interesting.  I've literally never seen it before.  Since you have familiar with it can you fill me in on who does it, how they do it and why teams dont measure it?  And why is Ourland Draft Blog the only site who has the data? 

 

here is an article i quickly google on - i didnt read whole thing but Ourlads is not the one doing it they simply have a list on WEB that people use.  It is done at combine during drills was my understanding.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/3/10/14890754/cleveland-browns-2017-nfl-scouting-combine-qb-velocity

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Here is an article that NFL Network actually quotes the extremely reputable Ourlads.  I couldnt find this season but this is last years.  The extremely reputable Ourlands has only been doing this since 2008 and many Qb's have opted not to throw at the combine.  

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000640929/article/lynch-goff-create-most-velocity-on-combine-throws

Best quote in that link is about Cardale Jones:

He is known for having a strong hose.

Seems a bit inappropriate to me, but I guess my world is becoming a little bit too politically correct.

[SickJetFan]

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

Interesting.  I've literally never seen it before.  Since you have familiar with it can you fill me in on who does it, how they do it and why teams dont measure it?  And why is Ourland Draft Blog the only site who has the data? 

 

oh and btw I do not think it is used as THE Tool to measure potential future QB success....its just one of the many and wont be 100%

[JiFtheOracle]

1 minute ago, SickJetFan said:

here is an article i quickly google on - i didnt read whole thing but Ourlads is not the one doing it they simply have a list on WEB that people use.  It is done at combine during drills was my understanding.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/3/10/14890754/cleveland-browns-2017-nfl-scouting-combine-qb-velocity

This has already been posted.  It's a blog quoting a blog.   Ourlads is the only source that has this data.  They've been doing it since 2008.  Not sure how valid this source is. 

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

here is an article i quickly google on - i didnt read whole thing but Ourlads is not the one doing it they simply have a list on WEB that people use.  It is done at combine during drills was my understanding.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/3/10/14890754/cleveland-browns-2017-nfl-scouting-combine-qb-velocity

If you look at JiF's link, ourlads is the one doing it.  Ourlads sets up radar guns and actually uses them on the passes during the drills.  The real question to me is if it is a specific drill (throw for highest velocity!) or if they are just pointing the gun at throws.

1 minute ago, SickJetFan said:

oh and btw I do not think it is used as THE Tool to measure potential future QB success....its just one of the many and wont be 100%

My understanding is that it is more of a cut-off than an indicator of success.  More than 55 mph you can be a legit NFL QB, less than 55 mph, you can't.  That is what they say in these articles anyway.  Hackenberg 56 mph, Petty 53 mph.  For all his flaws, Petty seems to have enough velocity to me.