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Sign Kirk Cousins, Draft Barkley

Pac

By Pac
in NY Jets Forum

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varjet

varjet

Posted
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21 minutes ago, JiF said:

You over pay for QB's that aren't on their rookie contract.  Period, end of story.  That's the NFL.  It's happening all over the league. And the rest of that paragraph is nonsense.  Cousins isn't overrated.  He's producing at a top 5 level.  And your Brady point? Really? Why would you want to bring in any QB to compete with big bad Brady if that's your worry?  You want a rookie in Baker Mayfield to compete with Brady? Let's just not prioritize the most important position in all off sports because they have to compete with Brady.  Come'on with that noise, brother.   And he's been to the playoffs in the NFCE, so he's proved he can get there, so what is the worry?  No matter who you bring in, you're dealing with NE and Brady.  

Of the 12 playoff teams above, 3 have qb on their rookie contracts.  If you have to pay a qb, you better hit on your draft picks with high impact players.  

This is where Mac gets it all wrong. 

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Im not supporting overpaying Kirk Cousins. If the jets overpay him then Im going to look at it as such. He's a good QB, but he has not shown to be worth 24 million per season. 

Fair.  You supported over paying for Glennon but not Cousins.  Cool.  Too each their own.  We can end on that note but I think you can probably see where the lot of us were coming from when talking about Cousins with you, no? 

 

 

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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3 minutes ago, varjet said:

Of the 12 playoff teams above, 3 have qb on their rookie contracts.  If you have to pay a qb, you better hit on your draft picks with high impact players.  

This is where Mac gets it all wrong. 

Agreed.  I've stated that exact quote.  Cousins contract doesn't hurt as bad if you actually hit on draft picks at the premium positions.  The Jets have 1 pick in the top 10 and 2 in the 2nd round.  That should be enough to make a significant improvement in talent but like you said, that hasn't been Mac's strong suit, if he has a strong suit. 

 

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Pac

Pac

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9 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I not supporting overpaying Kirk Cousins. If the jets overpay him then Im going to look at it as such. He's a good QB, but he has not shown to be worth 24 million per season. 

Your position would carry more weight if signing Cousins meant crippling the cap.  It doesn't.  You can front load a contract and still allow for cap flexibility in the coming years.

They can easily have $90-100 mil to spend and are obligated under the CBA to spend a lot, if not most, of it.  With that being the case who exactly would you rather them sign?

$15 mil a year for Bell?  $9 mil for Landry?  $11 Mil for D. Freeman?  No thanks..

 

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Fair.  You supported over paying for Glennon but not Cousins.  Cool.  Too each their own.  We can end on that note but I think you can probably see where the lot of us were coming from when talking about Cousins with you, no? 

 

 

Never once did. @Warfish asked me if I would have accepted the Jets giving Glennon that contract and my answer was no. 

 

Back to Cousins though. 

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Pac

Pac

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18 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Kirk Cousin's price tag outweighs his talent, this team has too many glaring needs to spend that kind of money on a 30 yr old QB. 

He's 29 years old and it's pretty common knowledge that QB's prime years are 30-36.  

I'll take 6-8 years of top notch QB play.

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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1 minute ago, Pac said:

Your position would carry more weight if signing Cousins meant crippling the cap.  It doesn't.  You can front load a heavy contract and still allow for cap flexibility in the coming years.

They can easily have $90-100 mil to spend and are obligated under the CBA to spend a lot, if not most, of it.  With that being the case who exactly would you rather them sign?

$15 mil a year for Bell?  $9 mil for Landry?  $11 Mil for D. Freeman?  No thanks..

 

You can always allow for cap flexibility in the coming years when we decide that we're going to blow sh*t up. 

 

Is Cousins worth his pay or not? If he isnt then that's what im saying. Im not saying that he's a bad QB because he's not worth 24 million dollars. Im saying he's not worth 24 million dollars. 

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joewilly12

joewilly12

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1 minute ago, Pac said:

He's 29 years old and it's pretty common knowledge that QB's prime years are 30-36.  

I'll take 6-8 years of top notch QB play.

How many Super Bowls have the Redskins played in with Cousins?  How many playoff appearances?  

He's not worth the money he will demand. 

Nothing else matters until we get a decent franchise level QB but we cannot spend all the cap money on 1 position. 

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Never once did. @Warfish asked me if I would have accepted the Jets giving Glennon that contract and my answer was no. 

 

Back to Cousins though. 

Huh? You literally said "you'd run the risk of overpaying' for Glennon.  I literally just provided the quote. 

 

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RichardTodd27

RichardTodd27

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8 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Im not saying that he's a bad QB because he's not worth 24 million dollars. Im saying he's not worth 24 million dollars. 

Pretty sure you can make the same statement for most of the QB's in the NFL. It's just the nature of the bussiness. 

It's really "overpay to play". And if you don't eventually "overpay" you're going to lose out (as I think the Redskins will)

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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11 minutes ago, Pac said:

Your position would carry more weight if signing Cousins meant crippling the cap.  It doesn't.  You can front load a contract and still allow for cap flexibility in the coming years.

They can easily have $90-100 mil to spend and are obligated under the CBA to spend a lot, if not most, of it.  With that being the case who exactly would you rather them sign?

$15 mil a year for Bell?  $9 mil for Landry?  $11 Mil for D. Freeman?  No thanks..

 

This and I don't know why this is falling on deaf ears but even if you hit on a QB in the draft, you're eventually going to have to give him a ridiculous contract like every F'ing QB in the league.  So you have a 4 year window to make the Super Bowl with a QB on a rookie contract.  Good luck with that...

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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Just now, RichardTodd27 said:

Pretty sure you can make the same statement for most of the QB's in the NFL. It's just the nature of the bussiness. 

It's really "overpay to play". And if you don't eventually "overpay" you're going to lose out (as I think the Redskins will)

You can, and I have, right in this thread. Instead of just saying that it's "part of the business" im more interested in seeing someone in the business change it up and stop doing what hasnt worked just because it's "the business". 

 

That's not a good enough excuse in my book. 

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

This and I don't know why this is falling on deaf ears but even if you hit on a QB in the draft, you're eventually going to have to give him a ridiculous contract like every F'ing QB in the league.  So you have a 4 year window to make the Super Bowl with a QB on a rookie contract.  Good luck with that...

It's falling on deaf ears because you're muddying the waters talking about other QB's in order to kick rocks. Pac didnt have a problem getting his feelings across. I wonder why? lol. 

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Pac

Pac

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12 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

How many Super Bowls have the Redskins played in with Cousins?  How many playoff appearances?  

He's not worth the money he will demand. 

Nothing else matters until we get a decent franchise level QB but we cannot spend all the cap money on 1 position. 

How many Super Bowles have Derreck Carr, Luck, Stafford, Dalton, Matt Ryan, Rivers, Sam Braford, Carson Palmer, or Alex Smith won?  They all have huge contracts and are not worth the money either.

As much as I hate agreeing with JiF his "pay to play" motto is pretty accurate.

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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3 minutes ago, Pac said:

How many Super Bowles have Derreck Carr, Luck, Stafford, Dalton, Matt Ryan, Rivers, Sam Braford, Carson Palmer, or Alex Smith won?  They all have huge contracts and are not worth the money either.

As much as I hate agreeing with JiF his "pay to play" motto is pretty accurate.

PRECISELY why you dont overpay. 

Great point Pac. 

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joewilly12

joewilly12

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3 minutes ago, Pac said:

How many Super Bowles have Derreck Carr, Luck, Stafford, Dalton, Matt Ryan, Rivers, Sam Braford, Carson Palmer, or Alex Smith won?  They all have huge contracts and are not worth the money either.

As much as I hate agreeing with JiF his "pay to play" motto is pretty accurate.

The NY Jets have made way too many mistakes over the years with the QB position its the main reason we haven't been successful since 1969. 

I  like Kirk Cousins the QB but not for the price he will demand. 

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The Crusher

The Crusher

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Im struggling with these two arguments here. One side seems to be saying you are more likely to win a superbowl by getting a rookie QB, build a team around him and win it before you got to pay him?  The other side is saying just pay up, build the best team you can and win a Superbowl?  I think both sides have merit. Cept for Pats because cheater vitamins and stuff.

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The Crusher

The Crusher

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Just now, Villain The Foe said:

@JiF knows he has a special place in my heart! lol. 

I'll admit i was pretty over the top with my Mike Glennon love. I'd still sign him though for McCown money. I surely would! lol. 

This world would be a better place if we could love one another the way you loved Glennon.

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Jet Nut

Jet Nut

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10 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

PRECISELY why you dont overpay. 

Great point Pac. 

Look around at what starting QBs past their 1st or 2nd contact are making.  Anytime one signs a new deal he usually becomes the highest paid QB.  Dollars don't equate to who's best or an order of top players at any position. It's timing of when you could hit the open market.  But the thing is all the top half starting QBs make huge money.  That being the case it's not overpaying.  It's the going rate for a better starting QB.  

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Scott Dierking

Scott Dierking

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2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Im all for taking a running back fairly high. Not in round 1 though. Barkley's hype is off of one game that everyone watched. 

I don't advocate taking Barkley where the Jets currently sit, but his hype is not from one game. It is from his physical abilities. He is a physical freak.

-He runs a 4.3 40

-He squats 525 lbs

-He is a pass catching threat out of the backfield

-He can pick up blitzes and blocks

All that said, again I would not take him at the Jets spot as there are greater needs. He dances in the hole a little too much for my liking as well.

Just watch the hype that he gets at the Combine as they will fall over each other with hype. 

 

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Im struggling with these two arguments here. One side seems to be saying you are more likely to win a superbowl by getting a rookie QB, build a team around him and win it before you got to pay him?  The other side is saying just pay up, build the best team you can and win a Superbowl?  I think both sides have merit. Cept for Pats because cheater vitamins and stuff.

Both sides have merit based on the organization. 


Question Crusher. Based on the the coaching staff add front office currrently and their history. Do you think that even if we paid Cousins 20+ million just to get him here that this front office could put the pieces together or this coaching staff could get things together? 

 

If we were just a QB away then I would understand the latter, but we're not just a QB away. We need a pass rusher, a RB, a new Oline, Cornerbacks etc. 

We get Cousins here and by the time we have could have something going it'll be his 3rd year under than contract and he'll be in his mid 30's and that money mounted to nothing. 

 

Clean house focus that money on offensive linemen and RB's draft QB's, CB's RB's, Pass rushers and OLinemen. We dont even have to go in the top 10 for the QB. We have a better chance of getting a QB if we trade back up in the 1st round than we do getting a pass rusher. Pass rushers are almost never found outside of the top picks. QB's have been found. 

 

What we need are competent coaching staff man. This problem is so much more than the QB. Look at the job the Jags have done, the Vikings have done the Titans have done. I even like what Tampa has done though they're in one of the most competitive divisions now. 

They're building their young nucleus then hitting free agency to put them over the top, they're not coming in trying to flesh together a team with free agent money. We've done this so many times and it doesnt work. We need to build a team. We need to hit in later rounds. We need our 2nd round picks to hit like we did with Marcus Maye this year. When's the last time we've even been excited for a 2nd round draft pick for this team? David Harris over a decade ago maybe? 

The problem is bigger than QB. Spending 24 million on Cousins will definitely fix that position in comparison to what we are used to, but I know Jets fans, we're going to want 24 million dollar performances, and if it doesnt happen then what? 

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