400 touches?

[Jetster]

Steelers making sure they get their moneys worth with Bell on the franchise tag. 

[Lith]

15 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Steelers making sure they get their moneys worth with Bell on the franchise tag. 

Also the lowest yards per carry since his rookie year.  Not sure how much tread is left on those tires.  Add to that multiple suspensions, and I would have no interest in signing the guy.  He has been a great player, but RB is a young man's position. 

Give me a Ronald Jones/Nick Chubb/Sony Michel in the 2nd on a rookie deal instead of Bell.

[MDL_JET]

4 minutes ago, Lith said:

Also the lowest yards per carry since his rookie year.  Not sure how much tread is left on those tires.  Add to that multiple suspensions, and I would have no interest in signing the guy.  He has been a great player, but RB is a young man's position. 

Give me a Ronald Jones/Nick Chubb/Sony Michel in the 2nd on a rookie deal instead of Bell.

Agree. There's way too many chances to draft a quality back. No need to break the bank at that position. 

[Sperm Edwards]

400 Touches was also the title for a student film I made eons ago, about the weekly routine between my penis and right hand.

[Jetster]

5 minutes ago, Lith said:

Also the lowest yards per carry since his rookie year.  Not sure how much tread is left on those tires.  Add to that multiple suspensions, and I would have no interest in signing the guy.  He has been a great player, but RB is a young man's position. 

Give me a Ronald Jones/Nick Chubb/Sony Michel in the 2nd on a rookie deal instead of Bell.

Completely agree. I was shocked we had fans interested. Too much $. Who would you rather have right now, Bell or Kamara? Let's find our Kamara with that 2nd or 3rd rounder. One of the guys you mentioned, maybe 2 will be there at #5 in the 2nd round. Macc will bee looking at Pass rush, OL or CB 1st with that high of pick. A lot of good players fall at the top of the 2nd, at 5 Macc has got to find another impact player. Finally hit on Maye last year, needs to do it again!

[Jetster]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

400 Touches was also the title for a student film I made eons ago, about the weekly routine between my penis and right hand.

Hence the name Sperm

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Hence the name Sperm

Well 400 Trillion Sperm was one of the 2 titles I was thinking of for the sequel. It was between that and Dishnorable Discharge.

Then I got laid and scrapped the project.

[Scott Dierking]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well 400 Trillion Sperm was one of the 2 titles I was thinking of for the sequel. It was between that and Dishnorable Discharge.

Then I got laid and scrapped the project.

Premature Matriculation

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

Premature Matriculation

#potential

[Scott Dierking]

If we spent free agent money on this I would just shake my head.

[Sperm Edwards]

12 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

If we spent free agent money on this I would just shake my head.

One of many problems with the CBA (and prior ones) is it treats all positions as though they have the same length careers. 

I don’t know what the perfect solution is. If they made it so RBs couldn’t be tagged, or their rookie contracts were only 3 years max, then you can more or less kiss goodbye any high 1st round picks getting used on the position (dropping their rookie contract wages even further). A step in the right direction would be no franchise tagging for anyone (and removing the min. requirement of 3 years before touching a draftee’s existing contract), so more players at a position like RB would reach unencumbered FA status while they still realistically have 3+ years left in their playing prime. Problem with doing that across the board is few positions mature into the same veteran-level usefulness as do RBs, and the team has to invest more in the player off the field.

But yeah, he’s gotten injured pretty much every season (some more games than others), and has played his entire career under the protection of, and running room provided by, the most deadly QB-WR passing combo in the league — a duo that’s been plenty successful even without him.

He’s a terrific back, no doubt, but who honestly believes he’d have been - or will be - as successful if opponents had/have the ability stack the box twice as often? Put a serious OL on the field instead of this sorry-ass bunch; the investment is more sound, and will surely last longer.

[Gastineau Lives]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

400 Touches was also the title for a student film I made eons ago, about the weekly routine between my penis and right hand.

I auditioned for that!

[UnitedWhofans]

Why is it that it seems that RBs career spans have decreased? Has it always been this way, or has it happened more recently.

I also wonder, given the difficulty of finding a good QB, that the RB position comes back into fashion, because its easier to find a good RB than a good QB.

[SenorGato]

Whoa, 400 touches once for a 25 year old? That guy’s probably toast. We’re better off with Powell at $4 million, McGuire, and that Georgia RB I found out existed last week. Save $10 million dollars and think of all that upside!  

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

400 Touches was also the title for a student film I made eons ago, about the weekly routine between my penis and right hand.

Butt fumbled

[Jetster]

3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Why is it that it seems that RBs career spans have decreased? Has it always been this way, or has it happened more recently.

I also wonder, given the difficulty of finding a good QB, that the RB position comes back into fashion, because its easier to find a good RB than a good QB.

I wonder what the going rate would be for Bell? Who is the highest paid RB right now? The Jet fans are always complains we have no stars on offense. Last time we had a sh*tload of free agency dollars we wasted it on defense playing Revis/Skrine/Gilchrist. 

There is a big difference between what the media says a player is worth in free agency & what teams will actually pay & for how long? 

If we do end up having approx. 105 million to spend, is it really that crazy if Macc signed both Cousins & Bell, with 2018 being Bells highest paid year? Who else is on the market & available at any position of need? Parcells rode Curtis Martin to an AFCC game. 

I wouldn't be crazy upset if Macc signed Bell. I might even say it's about f*cking time this team thought about offense!

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Jetster said:

I wonder what the going rate would be for Bell? Who is the highest paid RB right now? The Jet fans are always complains we have no stars on offense. Last time we had a sh*tload of free agency dollars we wasted it on defense playing Revis/Skrine/Gilchrist. 

There is a big difference between what the media says a player is worth in free agency & what teams will actually pay & for how long? 

If we do end up having approx. 105 million to spend, is it really that crazy if Macc signed both Cousins & Bell, with 2018 being Bells highest paid year? Who else is on the market & available at any position of need? Parcells rode Curtis Martin to an AFCC game. 

I wouldn't be crazy upset if Macc signed Bell. I might even say it's about f*cking time this team thought about offense!

Partially Woody influenced, but nonetheless true. 

I don't think we need to spend that much money on the secondary this time. We have our safeties and we just need 1 CB

[Lupz27]

3 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Whoa, 400 touches once for a 25 year old? That guy’s probably toast. We’re better off with Powell at $4 million, McGuire, and that Georgia RB I found out existed last week. Save $10 million dollars and think of all that upside!  

Yeah for comparison sake, Curtis Martin at the age of 26, and 5 years in the league which matches Bell exactly (next season 26 years old, and 5 year playing career to date) came off back to back 400 touch seasons, and in the 5 years after he produced at minimum 1450ish yards, and 1950ish yards. Yes I am comparing him to a HOF RB, but to be fair to Bell his first 5 years can be argued if they run the same course for 4-5 more years he would be a on the field results sure fire HOF RB after he retires.

So is it risky absolutely, every single long term contract with any player is risky, some more then others obviously that’s up to the Jets to do their jobs, and research on the player on, and off the field, and if they don’t come up with any medical issues, and are satisfied with their intel on his off field issues then I really don’t see a reason not to offer a 5 year contract with the first 3 guaranteed at the going rate for such a special talent IMO.

[SenorGato]

11 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Yeah for comparison sake, Curtis Martin at the age of 26, and 5 years in the league which matches Bell exactly (next season 26 years old, and 5 year playing career to date) came off back to back 400 touch seasons, and in the 5 years after he produced at minimum 1450ish yards, and 1950ish yards. Yes I am comparing him to a HOF RB, but to be fair to Bell his first 5 years can be argued if they run the same course for 4-5 more years he would be a on the field results sure fire HOF RB after he retires.

So is it risky absolutely, every single long term contract with any player is risky, some more then others obviously that’s up to the Jets to do their jobs, and research on the player on, and off the field, and if they don’t come up with any medical issues, and are satisfied with their intel on his off field issues then I really don’t see a reason not to offer a 5 year contract with the first 3 guaranteed at the going rate for such a special talent IMO.

Do the math. 400 + age 26 + FA RB + record contract = toast. After Bell depletes Woody’s fortune and all Jets resources who is blocking for him? Who will even want to block for an over the hill expensive player, even if it were possible for the Jets to add more players? You compare him to Martin but what about all the RBs as good as Bell who were toast at 26? You do this and the Jets lose every chance to get cheaper and better anywhere else, he’ll always be running into 8 men in a box. 

[Lupz27]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Partially Woody influenced, but nonetheless true. 

I don't think we need to spend that much money on the defense this time. We have our safeties and we just need 1 CB

Fixed, ******* Bowles a supposed defensive genius has been given 3 1st rounders, an early 2nd rounder, inherited 3 other Jets drafted 1st rounders in the previous 3 years before he got here, and another 1st rounder drafted by the Jets that he was ok having extended to a huge contract, and then over the past 3 years been given high priced talent in FA in Revis, Skrine, Ghilchrist, Claiborne, and a trade for D Davis who he didn’t want the first time around.  How the **** can they justify not taking care of the offense this season with the FA money they have to spend?  Seriously think about it, how the **** can they justify anything about this Macc, Bowles regime with all that money poured into the defense, and all the draft equity with this defensive oriented HC, and not have at least a good defense, and I say at least, but that’s being kind, it should be top 5 at the very least with all that’s been poured into it, and top 5 every season for the immediate future.

If the Jets go out, and sign/trade for a garbage patch QB like A Smith, Bradford, Keenum type, and then spend the rest of the money on Bowles defense they should all be fired on the spot.  At what point can the Jets sit back assess WTF is needed to win in this NFL era, and finally understand the rules are geared, no tilted ridiculously  towards the offense to be successful, and not build one by either spending any money on a top skilled position player, OL talent (actual long term reliable expensive talent not 1 year patch works), AND not drafting a Skilled position, or top promising OL talent in the 1st round since ******* 2006 with Mangold, and Dbrick who are both retired, and then you have to go all the way back to who correct me if I’m wrong Santana ******* Moss since the last skill position player was drafted in the 1st round (maybe Dustin Keller I know we traded up for him just don’t remember if it was late first or early 2nd, and we also did that trade up, and left DeSean Jackson on the board for Keller morons).

This offseason has to be about 1. Signing your current players from the team you like regardless of which side of the ball they play to contract extensions first, then BUILD an offense both in FA, AND early in the draft unless you literally spent every dollar on say Cousins, Bell, Allen Robinson, and 2 starting OL then you can consider a edge rusher, or CB at 6, and only an Edge Rusher, or CB for the defensive side of the ball, other then that it must be QB, or OT at 6, I’m so sick of feeding Todd Bowles endless amounts of resources into his defense to watch it fail miserably over, and over, and over, how this guy is still the HC is head scratching when you think about all of this.

God Damn it now I’m aggravated over this sh*t for no god damn reason in January FML.

[shuler82]

3 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Do the math. 400 + age 26 + FA RB + record contract = toast. After Bell depletes Woody’s fortune and all Jets resources who is blocking for him? Who will even want to block for an over the hill expensive player, even if it were possible for the Jets to add more players? You compare him to Martin but what about all the RBs as good as Bell who were toast at 26? You do this and the Jets lose every chance to get cheaper and better anywhere else, he’ll always be running into 8 men in a box. 

Completely agree. I'm not the best at math, but I can't see how we sign a 26 year old star RB for big money and still have cap space left over to improve the team elsewhere. And forget about the  draft because every pick Mac makes SUX

[Lupz27]

11 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Do the math. 400 + age 26 + FA RB + record contract = toast. After Bell depletes Woody’s fortune and all Jets resources who is blocking for him? Who will even want to block for an over the hill expensive player, even if it were possible for the Jets to add more players? You compare him to Martin but what about all the RBs as good as Bell who were toast at 26? You do this and the Jets lose every chance to get cheaper and better anywhere else, he’ll always be running into 8 men in a box. 

How many of those RB’s have the resume of Martin for the whole 5 years on the field as Bell that fizzled?  Most had 2 good years of 5, Bell has been a stud from day 1, the last guy I remember being a stud from day 1, and still being a stud after 5th season is Peterson, I’m not thinking very hard thou about it so maybe there is a few guys who were studs from day 1 till their 5th season, and I mean studs not flash in the pan guys, so if you can think of any let me know maybe that would make it more clear to me that signing Bell would be bad, it’s really not clear either way to me TBH, I just think of him, and wonder if he is that AP, Martin type special you can get minimum 3 more stud seasons out of.

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Lupz27 said:

How many of those RB’s have the resume of Martin for the whole 5 years on the field as Bell that fizzled?  Most had 2 good years of 5, Bell has been a stud from day 1, the last guy I remember being a stud from day 1, and still being a stud after 5th season is Peterson, I’m not thinking very hard thou about it so maybe there is a few guys who were studs from day 1 till their 5th season, and I mean studs not flash in the pan guys, so if you can think of any let me know maybe that would make it more clear to me that signing Bell would be bad, it’s really not clear either way to me TBH, I just think of him, and wonder if he is that AP, Martin type special you can get minimum 3 more stud seasons out of.

The cliff, and it is a precipitous one for RB's, is age 27 and 1800 carries for RB's. Bell is quickly approaching those. 

[Lupz27]

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

The cliff, and it is a precipitous one for RB's, is age 27 and 1800 carries for RB's. Bell is quickly approaching those. 

Again I just gave you an example of someone who was special, and did not reach this cliff till his 11th season, and had a higher work load going into his 6th season at the exact same age.  Their are special guys who can be exceptions, and from what I’ve seen Bell has a career trajectory similar to other special guys, being a stud day 1, and still a stud after year 5.

[Lupz27]

17 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

Completely agree. I'm not the best at math, but I can't see how we sign a 26 year old star RB for big money and still have cap space left over to improve the team elsewhere. And forget about the  draft because every pick Mac makes SUX

So giving Bell roughly 13% of our available Cap space is going to hinder the Jets to improve the rest of the roster with the other 87% of the Cap space?  I don’t follow.

[SenorGato]

8 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

The cliff, and it is a precipitous one for RB's, is age 27 and 1800 carries for RB's. Bell is quickly approaching those. 

Yeah, listen to Scotty D. His renown in math led the Mets to back to back rings in 2015 and 2016. Hard numbers here, everyone is the same and Bell only has 509 carries left before he explodes. That’s not even two seasons. 

10 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

How many of those RB’s have the resume of Martin for the whole 5 years on the field as Bell that fizzled?  Most had 2 good years of 5, Bell has been a stud from day 1, the last guy I remember being a stud from day 1, and still being a stud after 5th season is Peterson, I’m not thinking very hard thou about it so maybe there is a few guys who were studs from day 1 till their 5th season, and I mean studs not flash in the pan guys, so if you can think of any let me know maybe that would make it more clear to me that signing Bell would be bad, it’s really not clear either way to me TBH, I just think of him, and wonder if he is that AP, Martin type special you can get minimum 3 more stud seasons out of.

OK, but what about the money? The budget? Who is blocking for this guy? Say the Jets were to pay this guy $15 million after cutting Wilkerson, Forte, Powell, and maybe that backup T. We’re talking maybe only $90 million left to spend. Wtf do you expect to get for that and would you be so despicable as to actually use most of that $90 million while Woody has his back turned? Brutus!

[RoadFan]

I would like to see LeV return to Michigan...  a great fit with the Lions.

[Lupz27]

3 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Yeah, listen to Scotty D. His renown in math led the Mets to back to back rings in 2015 and 2016. Hard numbers here, everyone is the same and Bell only has 509 carries left before he explodes. That’s not even two seasons. 

OK, but what about the money? The budget? Who is blocking for this guy? Say the Jets were to pay this guy $15 million after cutting Wilkerson, Forte, Powell, and maybe that backup T. We’re talking maybe only $90 million left to spend. Wtf do you expect to get for that and would you be so despicable as to actually use most of that $90 million while Woody has his back turned? Brutus!

Lol, ok I think I get it now my bad, not my sharpest day, while today is everyone’s Friday it is my Monday lol.

[jeremy2020]

You draft RBs...late. You don't pay them.

[shuler82]

1 hour ago, Lupz27 said:

So giving Bell roughly 13% of our available Cap space is going to hinder the Jets to improve the rest of the roster with the other 87% of the Cap space?  I don’t follow.

I SAID I wasn't very good at math.

[Lupz27]

1 minute ago, shuler82 said:

I SAID I wasn't very good at math.

Just saw that, math was a strong suit of mine when I used to properly keep my brain in shape, so yeah signing Bell does absolutely zero to the Jets in terms of being able to improve the roster next season, come years 3, 4, and 5 IF Bell turns into a useless sh*t, or his off field issues rear their ugly head that’s when his signing could become an issue cap wise, but every single team HAS to go through a year or 2 with cap issues at some point it’s just the way it’s structured in this league if your trying to win, the teams that don’t get affected by it are the ones that draft consistently well from rounds 1-7 in the draft, or have the unicorn type QB like Brady, and Rodgers.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Yeah for comparison sake, Curtis Martin at the age of 26, and 5 years in the league which matches Bell exactly (next season 26 years old, and 5 year playing career to date) came off back to back 400 touch seasons, and in the 5 years after he produced at minimum 1450ish yards, and 1950ish yards. Yes I am comparing him to a HOF RB, but to be fair to Bell his first 5 years can be argued if they run the same course for 4-5 more years he would be a on the field results sure fire HOF RB after he retires.

So is it risky absolutely, every single long term contract with any player is risky, some more then others obviously that’s up to the Jets to do their jobs, and research on the player on, and off the field, and if they don’t come up with any medical issues, and are satisfied with their intel on his off field issues then I really don’t see a reason not to offer a 5 year contract with the first 3 guaranteed at the going rate for such a special talent IMO.

It's not so much comparing his "HOF" credentials as the comparison to someone who stayed remarkably - almost impossibly - healthy for the RB position. 

The overall length of the contract is irrelevant, but in terms of the guaranteed portion absolutely nobody's offering Bell a contract with 3 years guaranteed. Typically only QBs get that much guaranteed outright (and special/franchise QBs at that). Rarely you'll see a meatheaded contract like the one Tannenbaum awarded to David Harris, with 3 years guaranteed, but it's unusual to say the least.

He's not such a rare talent IMO. There are plenty of RBs who would be - and have been - productive on that team (e.g. 32 year-old DeAngelo Williams starting 10 games in place of an injured Bell). Not quite as productive as Bell, of course, but he's not Adrian Peterson. His career ypc is 4.3 and it's not like he's getting mostly short-yardage work where that low number is balanced out by 15-20 TDs per season.

He's excellent, and certainly better than anyone we've had in some time (maybe ever), but he's not in the "rare" category along with the likes of Peterson, Lynch, Barry, Brown, etc. Those guys were productive even when their line wasn't, and even playing behind such non-threats to the secondary as QBs like Tavaris Jackson, Trent Edwards, Rodney Peete, Christian Ponder, etc. 

[Scott Dierking]

1 hour ago, Lupz27 said:

Again I just gave you an example of someone who was special, and did not reach this cliff till his 11th season, and had a higher work load going into his 6th season at the exact same age.  Their are special guys who can be exceptions, and from what I’ve seen Bell has a career trajectory similar to other special guys, being a stud day 1, and still a stud after year 5.

Of course there are exceptions, but those are, again, exceptions. Had Curtis Martin missed the amount of games that Bell has his first 5 years? The answer is no.

There is not a right or wrong in this, it is just opinion at this point.

All I am saying is that Bell is not the player I would give my money to. 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, j4jets said:

Butt fumbled

lol

I'd love to hear the explanation for that one.

[SenorGato]

10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's not so much comparing his "HOF" credentials as the comparison to someone who stayed remarkably - almost impossibly - healthy for the RB position. 

The overall length of the contract is irrelevant, but in terms of the guaranteed portion absolutely nobody's offering Bell a contract with 3 years guaranteed. Typically only QBs get that much guaranteed outright (and special/franchise QBs at that). Rarely you'll see a meatheaded contract like the one Tannenbaum awarded to David Harris, with 3 years guaranteed, but it's unusual to say the least.

He's not such a rare talent IMO. There are plenty of RBs who would be - and have been - productive on that team (e.g. 32 year-old DeAngelo Williams starting 10 games in place of an injured Bell). Not quite as productive as Bell, of course, but he's not Adrian Peterson. His career ypc is 4.3 and it's not like he's getting mostly short-yardage work where that low number is balanced out by 15-20 TDs per season.

He's excellent, and certainly better than anyone we've had in some time (maybe ever), but he's not in the "rare" category along with the likes of Peterson, Lynch, Barry, Brown, etc. Those guys were productive even when their line wasn't, and even playing behind such non-threats to the secondary as QBs like Tavaris Jackson, Trent Edwards, Rodney Peete, Christian Ponder, etc. 

A solid reason for the team with nothing on offense and the second most to spend in FA to stay away!

He’s a rare talent. He’s the first player in history to average in a season more than 100 YPG rushing and 50 yards recieving. He did that at 24. He’s 26(!) next year. That’s falls firmly into the extremely rare category. 

Here’s FO on Bell this year:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2017/film-room-leveon-bell

Quote

Even with Brown on the field, Bell is the player the Chiefs have to be most wary of on underneath throws. Without Johnson, they will need to consistently flow to the ball and trap Bell before he can get too far downfield.

...

Bell has developed into one of the best players in the NFL. He is comfortably the best running back in the NFL because of his versatility. That's no slight to David Johnson or Ezekiel Elliott -- Bell has just developed to the point that he needs to be put on his own pedestal. Even with an unhealthy Roethlisberger, the clash between Bell, Brown, the Steelers offensive line and the Chiefs defense in Kansas City should provide us with one of the most tantalizing matchups of the season.