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The Most Insightful things I have read and heard about the 2018 QB Class are These:


oc_jet

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22 hours ago, Obrien2Toon said:

If Allen goes to the Giants or Broncos, he turns into a bigger Elway

the Jets, Browns, or Bills and he’s a complete bust

same with Mayfield to a lesser extent

we have to go with Rosen, the guy with the highest floor

i really see him as the only can’t miss, not even the Jets can mess him up

though his upside may not be as high as Allen or Darnold

I’d say he “could “ turn into a bigger Elway but other than that you are spot on. 

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Yes, Holy Lauletta!  Then again the people who are paid to do this don't seem to rank him among the top tier QBs so what do I know.  I do know that from the film I saw, I would love Lauletta to be a Jet.  If he lasts until the 3rd round I'd be fine with taking him with our pick there.

 

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On 4/6/2018 at 4:15 PM, oc_jet said:

There were two extremely insightful posts recently, by HMHertz and Gangrene. Props for posting.

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/4/1/17185862/nfl-draft-qb-ball-placement-analysis

2ludwma.0.png

  • Clean = basically the QB got his feet set and made a throw with his normal mechanics
  • Move = the QB threw it on the move
  • Tight Window = the defense was tight enough that the QB had to adjust the ball-placement to get it around/through the defense.

The main takeaways for me:

  • Holy Lauletta (though he has by far the least amount of film compared to the others)
  • Mayfield and Rosen are also very good, as expected
  • Based on these numbers, Lamar Jackson is one of the most accurate QBs in the draft but REALLY struggles on those screen passes/passes to the flats.
  • Rudolph is terribly average.

And the Dan Orlovsky/ Peter King podcast:

https://dfkfj8j276wwv.cloudfront.net/episodes/57ff7f93-1714-4ba6-a485-7d9761fb9b6c/ce6d056e00b3d022ca8ad0b0c6abacfebc455927501bfca2307eeb90dd241c07fb09434ecac27e98e27df0e31ebac4eab9170139033a98dc0cde69727b3f0070/2018 04 04 MMQB with Peter King.mp3

If you listened closely to Orlovsky's detailed view and look at the metrics of what this chart reveals, The Jets should want no part of Josh Allen. Yes, Allen is also very smart and has a cannon for an arm, but he doesnt have the ability to think beyond what is patently obvious and see many alternatives on the moving chess board of football. In other words, the ability for instantaneous scenario projection and strategic adjustment. His numbers bear that out to me. Conversely, Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen appear to possess that quality. One thing with Rosen, however, we better have a solid offensive line, because he breaks down when on the move. Also, Jackson is no slouch. He just requires a different level of commitment, which I dont think the Jets are willing to make. If we could somehow come away with one of these three and Lauletta, the Jets would be set for the next 5-7 years. 

Good find, but wondering why Lauretta isn't ranked higher, despite the inferior competition.

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1 hour ago, DetroitRed said:


Huh? Drug abusing athletes are on equal ground with straight ones? It actually is what wrecked his career


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

No.  Talking about what they were in college.  What wrecked his career in the NFL was believing he was Johnny Football and all the nonsense that escalated out of it.  A 

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On 4/6/2018 at 7:12 PM, Obrien2Toon said:

If Allen goes to the Giants or Broncos, he turns into a bigger Elway

the Jets, Browns, or Bills and he’s a complete bust

same with Mayfield to a lesser extent

we have to go with Rosen, the guy with the highest floor

i really see him as the only can’t miss, not even the Jets can mess him up

though his upside may not be as high as Allen or Darnold

Like Osweiler and Paxton Lynch became in Denver?  Why does Denver get all this QB love?  Other than landing a HOF QB what have they had to make people believe this?  Even Elway only was a Bronco because he refused to got to the Colts

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On April 6, 2018 at 2:49 PM, Patriot Killa said:

LOLOLOLLOLOLOL!!!

Rosen needs all day to make a read? Jesus, Mary and Joesph....Rosen goes thru read 1-4 lightening quick and makes quick and decisive decisions. 

Yeah, let’s just ignore the fact his O-line was garbo and don’t give me “Kolton Miller is going to be a 1st rounder.” Because he is a decent LT who had a good combine..those assumptions were earned post-college season.

Haha ... sure if you use only highlights on ESPN and youtube (and overlook pass protection at your convenience).

Bet you didn't watch one complete UCLA game (besides the Texas comeback). The epic Texas defensive fail game.

When I say "make a read" I mean pull the trigger and commit. Indecisive reads don't count and a bad OL doesn't make a QB hold the ball too long in the pocket like Rosen often does. Funny how his OL gets no credit for every clean pocket it produced which was nearly on every big throw he made. Zealots like you don't even watch highlights fairly. You Rosen blowers have 1001 excuses for his flaws and 1001 reasons to dis anything good about other QBs. 

You should watch some complete UCLA games. Begin with road games, the ones Rosen lost (which was every 2017 road game). He looked like Brian Hoyer.

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29 minutes ago, jetrider said:

Haha ... sure if you use only highlights on ESPN and youtube (and overlook pass protection at your convenience).

Bet you didn't watch one complete UCLA game (besides the Texas comeback). The epic Texas defensive fail game.

When I say "make a read" I mean pull the trigger and commit. Indecisive reads don't count and a bad OL doesn't make a QB hold the ball too long in the pocket like Rosen often does. Funny how his OL gets no credit for every clean pocket it produced which was nearly on every big throw he made. Zealots like you don't even watch highlights fairly. You Rosen blowers have 1001 excuses for his flaws and 1001 reasons to dis anything good about other QBs. 

You should watch some complete UCLA games. Begin with road games, the ones Rosen lost (which was every 2017 road game). He looked like Brian Hoyer.

Uhh...except you’re wrong, because I have watched every single UCLA game this year completely through from start to finish along with most of his freshman games LOL.

How does one explain the difference in “pulling the trigger and committing” from completing a pass to the correct read....? Because that’s actually what Rosen does well and as far as I’m concerned those are the exact same things just with your own little spin on wordplay to give it some imaginary and “complex” meaning in order to push your false narrative. Everything that you are condemning Rosen for is exactly what he does well...so i’m not quite sure you understand what you are talking about much less do I..know...what you are actually talking about. 

And has far as “highlights” go..yeah..I don’t watch highlights..I either watch the game live or I watch actual game film so your assumptions on what I watch or how I approach learning about a prospect are out-on-limb ridiculous and an extremely unnecessary reach and a failed attempt to take a dig at me. 

As far as the O-line goes, he was pressured faaar more than you are expressing that he was and there were plenty of instances where he calmly stepped up in the pocket and delivered a strike on the money. That pressure mostly came from his blind side to boot..He is responsible for elevating a sub-par UCLA roster to a decent looking on field product...preeeetty much all by himself. He lead them to 8-4 and then when missing the second half of the season they went 4-8. That team was 1-5 without him. 

He is beyond his class in throwing ability and you are ignorant for coming at me side ways like I don’t watch this man play but I just root for him pre-draft lol...don’t take me for a fool. Take the Memphis game for instance. I’m not sure how exactly a quarterback can make a 21-yard back-shoulder fade from the far hash to the sideline look simple, but Rosen does. Rosen’s pocket presence is highly refined. He is no damn Brian Hoyer. His footwork is crisp, methodical, and precise — it looks natural yet well-practiced. He moves cleanly within the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield and finding targets to throw to. This includes climbing the pocket, when necessary.(which yes, he had to do a lot.)

What about the USC game? Kolton Miller got beat on a play by perhaps the PAC-12’s best pass rusher, Uchenna Nwosu. Rosen felt the pressure coming from his blind side and calmly stepped up in the pocket, just enough to evade Nwosu’s outstretched arm. Pressure starts coming from the inside, as well, but Rosen — who has not dropped is eyes and is still moving through his progressions — spots his WR and hits him immediately, allowing his guy to run for the sticks.

again...WTF are you talking about?

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22 minutes ago, jetrider said:

YOU cherry-picking highlights and tuning out the rest

This is all you could come up with in response?

I didn't cherry pick anything. I simply showed you instances where the claims you are making have zero validity whatsoever. I fully acknowledge the good and the bad out of Rosen...the point being...the things you are condemning him for are all the wrong things to be condemning him for lol. 

I can’t get over the Brian Hoyer comment lol..I’m still giggling like a little girl over that one. Jeeeeeez.

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34 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

This is all you could come up with in response?

I didn't cherry pick anything. I simply showed you instances where the claims you are making have zero validity whatsoever. I fully acknowledge the good and the bad out of Rosen...the point being...the things you are condemning him are all the wrong things to be condemning him for lol. 

I can’t get over the Brian Hoyer comment lol..I’m still giggling like a little girl over that one. Jeeeeeez.

LOL ... that's the very definition of cherry picking. There are many instances where my claims are totally valid but you either ignored those or you didn't watch the games. Simple as that. All your cherry-picked points can apply to any QB.

My only (major) knock against Rosen is his inability to stay healthy. So again you're wrong about me being wrong. This convo started with Lupz27 bragging how Rosen hangs in the pocket and pays the price of making the correct read. I said it's more a case of being indecisive and the NFL will be less accommodating. Which is true. Then you flew off the rails because I attacked your God and here we are. 

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4 hours ago, jetrider said:

LOL ... that's the very definition of cherry picking. There are many instances where my claims are totally valid but you either ignored those or you didn't watch the games. Simple as that. All your cherry-picked points can apply to any QB.

My only (major) knock against Rosen is his inability to stay healthy. So again you're wrong about me being wrong. This convo started with Lupz27 bragging how Rosen hangs in the pocket and pays the price of making the correct read. I said it's more a case of being indecisive and the NFL will be less accommodating. Which is true. Then you flew off the rails because I attacked your God and here we are. 

Except that isn’t the very definition of cherry picking at all. What I gave you is a circumstantial response. You said that Rosen only delivers in a clean pocket and I gave you two instances where he delivers with pressure. I also rounded it out with explaining his strengths(that you claim are a weakness) in order to provide the reasoning in depth for why you are wrong.

If you were to ask me what is Rosen’s strengths and weaknesses and I only provided you will strengths, than that would obviously be cherry picking...but that isn’t what happened now is it?

Secondly, I didn’t “fly off the handle” I actually found it quite hilarious that you suggested his very strengths were his weaknesses, as you went on to formulate some imaginary(yet an inspiring effort) difference between throwing to the correct read and “pulling the trigger and committing to the correct read.” 

There is zero indecisiveness. If you want to talk about Injuries, attitude, work ethic, pocket mobility(though he climbs the pocket) then I’m all game to talk about his weaknesses too..but you labeled an obvious strength as a weakness and I had to call you out because it was quite ridiculous for someone who is telling me that I need to watch complete game film of Rosen but you cannot even properly point out his actual strengths vs his actual weaknesses.

its funny.

 

its just funny.

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7 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Except that isn’t the very definition of cherry picking at all. What I gave you a circumstantial response. You said that Rosen only delivers in a clean pocket and I gave you two instances where he delivers with pressure. I also rounded it out with explaining his strengths(that you claim are a weakness) in order to provide the reasoning in depth for why you are wrong.

If you were to ask me what is Rosen’s strengths and weaknesses and I only provided you will strengths, than that would obviously be cherry picking...but that isn’t what happened now is it?

Secondly, I didn’t “fly off the handle” I actually found it quite hilarious that you suggested his very strengths were his weaknesses, as you went on to formulate some imaginary(yet an inspiring effort) difference between throwing to the correct read and “pulling the trigger and committing to the correct read.” 

There is zero indecisiveness. If you want to talk about Injuries, attitude, work ethic, pocket mobility(though he climbs the pocket) then I’m all game to talk about his weaknesses too..but you labeled an obvious strength as a weakness and I had to call you out because it was quite ridiculous for someone who is telling me that I need to watch complete game film of Rosen but you cannot even properly point out his actual strengths vs his actual weaknesses.

its funny.

 

its just funny.

1. I never said Rosen only delivers in a clean pocket. You implied he never had pass protection, his OL was "garbo", right?

2. There's a diff between making reads and making correct reads. That's all I was saying.

3. How old are you 12?

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2 minutes ago, jetrider said:

1. I never said Rosen only delivers in a clean pocket. You implied he never had pass protection, his OL was "garbo", right?

2. There's a diff between making reads and making correct reads. That's all I was saying.

3. How old are you 12?

You implied most of his throws were in a clean pocket. 

You were saying that he goes through his progressions with indecisiveness. I simply gave you reasoning why he doesn’t go through his reads with indecisiveness.

12 years old..? What are you even talking about? 

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3 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Uhh...except you’re wrong, because I have watched every single UCLA game this year completely through from start to finish along with most of his freshman games LOL.

He lead them to 8-4 and then when missing the second half of the season they went 4-8. That team was 1-5 without him. 

again...WTF are you talking about?

WTF are you talking about? They were 3-3 with Rosen and 1-5 without him in 2016. 

6-5 with Rosen and 0-2 without him in 2017.

I thought you followed this player and watched all the games.

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25 minutes ago, jetrider said:

WTF are you talking about? They were 3-3 with Rosen and 1-5 without him in 2016. 

6-5 with Rosen and 0-2 without him in 2017.

I thought you followed this player and watched all the games.

I obviously didn’t specify the actual year they went 4-4(which was the typo you were suppose to notice.),, I thought it was something you could either comprehend on your own or read past but instead you decided to use it as ammo in a losing effort for this conversation.(weeaakkkk.)

Man, you are smooth operator.

So they did go 1-5 without him. Check.

So they did go 0-2 without him this year.(which I didn’t even mentioned this year.) Check.

I think you understand my point that he lifted UCLA way past their talent level well enough and just decided to take a terriblely caculated shot at me like I didn’t know what I was talking about when you and I both know I obviously do. 

Yawn.

Better luck next time Jeht Ryda’...

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I obviously didn’t specify the actual year they went 4-4(which was the typo you were suppose to notice.),, I thought it was something you could either comprehend on your own or read past but instead you decided to use it as ammo in a losing effort for this conversation.(weeaakkkk.)

Man, you are smooth operator.

So they did go 1-5 without him. Check.

So they did go 0-2 without him this year.(which I didn’t even mentioned this year.) Check.

I think you understand my point that he lifted UCLA way past their talent level well enough and just decided to take a terriblely caculated shot at me like I didn’t know what I was talking about when you and I both know I obviously do. 

Yawn.

Better luck next time Jeht Ryda’...

 

Oh, now it's 4-4?

Translation: none of your sh!t adds up but you know what you're babbling about. Got it. 

Can't tell if you're a struggling bullfark artist or your Saturday night babysitter put too much Kahlua in your Cocoa Krispies.

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1 hour ago, jetrider said:

Oh, now it's 4-4?

Translation: none of your sh!t adds up but you know what you're babbling about. Got it. 

Can't tell if you're a struggling bullfark artist or your Saturday night babysitter put too much Kahlua in your Cocoa Krispies.

Lol just because you keep running with it doesn’t make it any better. 

Youre self redeeming tactics are lame as hell to be quite honest. Josh Rosen lifted his sub-par team was the point. I thought it was 4-4, so it’s 3-3. Woah. Well I guess almost isn’t good enough for jet ryedah huh? 

Completely missing the point in order to say that you are right and I am wrong lol. It’s cute tbh.

Now tell me again how you had to surf my posts during this debate for something to be right about. Tell me again how you had to take something as insignificant as the team’s record which was off by just a taaad bit(and didn’t even pertain to the original argument.)and use it as some kind of lightening rod of revenge in your silly attempt to sound like you have won something...because 3-3 or 4-4..it doesn’t matter in all actuality..the second you brought up UCLA going 1-5 and 0-2 without him.. you further proved my point for me.

Josh Rosen made his team 10 times better than the sh*t stain that it is without him under center.

Now, before you officially take your pretend loss that means so much to you..is there any other posts of mine that you would like to put under the microscope in an attempt to sound slightly better regarding your position in this argument?

Because I’m deep off into Resident Evil 7 right now and I’d rather be focusing my energy into finding the serum to cure the Baker family curse instead of putting you in your place left and right.

PS. I’m a college student. I don’t need baby sitters, buddy. I bang them.

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10 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Lol just because you keep running with it doesn’t make it any better. 

Youre self redeeming tactics are lame as hell to be quite honest. Josh Rosen lifted his sub-par team was the point. I thought it was 4-4, so it’s 3-3. Woah. Well I guess almost isn’t good enough for jet ryedah huh? 

Completely missing the point in order to say that you are right and I am wrong lol. It’s cute tbh.

Now tell me again how you had to surf my posts during this debate for something to be right about. Tell me again how you had to take something as insignificant as the team’s record which was off by just a taaad bit(and didn’t even pertain to the original argument.)and use it as some kind of lightening rod of revenge in your silly attempt to sound like you have won something...because 3-3 or 4-4..it doesn’t matter in all actuality..the second you brought up UCLA going 1-5 and 0-2 without him.. you further proved my point for me.

Josh Rosen made his team 10 times better than the sh*t stain that it is without him under center.

Now, before you officially take your pretend loss that means so much to you..is there any other posts of mine that you would like to put under the microscope in an attempt to sound slightly better regarding your position in this argument?

Because I’m deep off into Resident Evil 7 right now and I’d rather be focusing my energy into finding the serum to cure the Baker family curse instead of putting you in your place left and right.

PS. I’m a college student. I don’t need baby sitters, buddy. I bang them.

No, I proved my point that nothing you say is accurate. 

It's also a safe bet you never banged anything but your skull.

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1 minute ago, jetrider said:

No, I proved my point that nothing you say is accurate. 

It's also a safe bet you never banged anything but your skull.

Woah, jetrider back at it again with the hot takes and the quick shots. 

If you just mentioned that they have won 1 game out of 7 in two seasons without Rosen....and I told you that Rosen lifts his sub-par team to decent...then what does that tell you?

it tells you that some where in between your babbling you managed to prove my point correct. Seeeee, you do understand. You just are having a hard time swallowing your pride and grinning.

its okay, happens to the best of us. 

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5 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Woah, jetrider back at it again with the hot takes and the quick shots. 

If you just mentioned that they have won 1 game out of 7 in two seasons without Rosen....and I told you that Rosen lifts his sub-par team to decent...then what does that tell you?

it tells you that some where in between your babbling you managed to prove my point correct. Seeeee, you do understand. You just are having a hard time swallowing your pride and grinning.

its okay, happens to the best of us. 

That wasn't the discussion and you know it. 

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Just now, jetrider said:

That wasn't the discussion and you know it. 

That was the discussion as soon as you turned the subject into UCLA’s record. I told you last night that it wasn’t the subject and you were just simply looking for something to be right about...so you just proved me right on that too. 

LOL. You have a way of talking yourself into these situations.

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2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

That was the discussion as soon as you turned the subject into UCLA’s record. I told you last night that it wasn’t the subject and you were just simply looking for something to be right about...so you just proved me right on that too. 

LOL. You have a way of talking yourself into these situations.

I said he lost all his 2017 road games. That is true.

You posted lies and I used them against you to prove your word means nothing. Stop wasting everyone's time.

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Just now, jetrider said:

I said he lost all his 2017 road games. That is true.

You posted lies and I used them against you to prove your word means nothing. Stop wasting everyone's time.

No, what YOU said was..”UCLA went 1-5 and 0-2 without Josh Rosen and 3-3 when he returned, WTF R yU tAlkInG aBoUT?”

In an attempt to make me look stupid because i typo-d(4-8) and was slightly off with my number(4-4)..but you did this 20 posts into the debate later..which leads me to believe you went back and surfed through my prior posts looking for something to be right about in an attempt to bandage your wounded pride because you really just didn’t have much else left of value to add to your side of the argument....

YOU turned this into a debate about his school record. YOU turned this into a debate about his road losses. When you’re original point was to condem his ability to “pull the trigger and commit.”

sooo which is it, ryedah?

Btw, if I’m wasting your time, you always can just not respond back. That seems to work well when you don’t want to continue debating on a forum. But idk if your pride is set up to do all that.

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6 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

No, what YOU said was..”UCLA went 1-5 and 0-2 without Josh Rosen and 3-3 when he returned, WTF R yU tAlkInG aBoUT?”

In an attempt to make me look stupid because i typo-d(4-8) and was slightly off with my number(4-4)..but you did this 20 posts into the debate later..which leads me to believe you went back and surfed through my prior posts looking for something to be right about in an attempt to bandage your wounded pride because you really just didn’t have much else left of value to add to your side of the argument....

YOU turned this into a debate about his school record. YOU turned this into a debate about his road losses. When you’re original point was to condem his ability to “pull the trigger and commit.”

sooo which is it, ryedah?

Btw, if I’m wasting your time, you always can just not respond back. That seems to work well when you don’t want to continue debating on a forum. But idk if your pride is set up to do all that.

I said that after your BS to correct you. If you can't follow a discussion then you shouldn't participate. You are completely lost because ... you lost.

I also told you to watch road games because that's where he mostly struggled. 

Look, I like Rosen. He has a fabulous arm, a fun personality, and his politics don't bother me. The way I see it, Dump will be hauled away in cuffs when Mueller is done (hopefully before Sept) and Woody will rethink his political image, not Rosen. The fact he couldn't win on the road and threw 8 picks his last 8 games isn't great, but those things are fixable. The one thing you can't throw tens of millions of dollars at is his fragile health. We need that money on the field. That's why Mayfield looks like our only choice. Now grow the f–k up.

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1 minute ago, jetrider said:

I said that after your BS to correct you. If you can't follow a discussion then you shouldn't participate. You are completely lost because ... you lost.

I also told you to watch road games because that's where he mostly struggled. 

Look, I like Rosen. He has a fabulous arm, a fun personality, and his politics don't bother me. The way I see it, Dump will be hauled away in cuffs when Mueller is done (hopefully before Sept) and Woody will rethink his political image, not Rosen. The fact he couldn't win on the road and threw 8 picks his last 8 games isn't great, but those things are fixable. The one thing you can't throw tens of millions of dollars at is his fragile health. We need that money on the field. That's why Mayfield looks like our only choice. Now grow the f–k up.

You used it as a means to feel better about yourself because you felt a sense of defeat in our original debate. How does one “follow a discussion” when you are switching the topics like a teenage girl spilling gossip to her friends? Is it his indecisiveness, is it his road games, is it his team’s record? The world may never know.

You are wild for that, my dude. Wild. So i’m the one who needs to follow discussion when you can’t even follow it yourself....got it.

Secondly, UCLA’s road losses weren’t just on Rosen when he was actually out there and when he was, he made that sh*t stain team look twice as better..which is all I’m concerned about as far as your claim on road games go. You couldn’t get a Tennessee Peyton Manning to win that much on that particular UCLA squad. Rosen didn’t look perfect but he looked like the best prospect in the draft...which is all I’m worried about.

Thirdly..I need to grow up? Lolol..but Rydah.. you were the one taking shots at me, dumping on my age, telling me the only thing I banged was my head, negative repping my posts and seeking revenge on every post.

fourthly...Rosen May never see a major injury again or he may see them consistently..you look dumb if you pass on him and he doesn’t get hurt and ya look dumb if you take him and he gets hurt..so you might as well take him and worry about the rest later. 

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On 4/6/2018 at 4:50 PM, Il Mostro said:

Lauletta is going to be the steal of the draft.  

Everyone keep saying this. This guy seems to be everyone’s “secret.” If that is the case then why is he going to stick around until the second or third round?

 

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