Darnold Starting and QB Development

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, Bleedin Green said:

While I completely agree with you about Darnold not sitting for nearly that long, I think the question of the person they are sitting behind could not possibly be more irrelevant.  It's not like Cousins learned a damn thing from sitting behind RG3 that gave him so much greater benefit than Darnold would get on the bench.  I can't imagine any scenario where Darnold doesn't get substantial playing time this year short of the unthinkable happening (e.g., Bridgewater winning the job, playing lights out, and having the Jets seen as a serious contender).  With that said, the timing of when the change happens should be based entirely on Darnold, not anyone else.

It is not relevant to whether they should sit, it is relevant to why they are sitting.  Rodgers sat because they had a HOF QB in his prime ahead of him.  Cousins sat behind the #2 overall that the Redskins traded 3 years of 1st and 2nd to move up from 6.  Those guys are bound to get more rope before they are benched.  Likewise, guys picked later, like Webb, Rudolph and Lynch, may have the luxury of sitting.  They were picked later because they are so much further away.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Darnold starts week one or give me a good reason why not. The gym does more for your wind than it does for your jump shot.

[RutgersJetFan]

9 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

It is not relevant to whether they should sit, it is relevant to why they are sitting.  Rodgers sat because they had a HOF QB in his prime ahead of him.  Cousins sat behind the #2 overall that the Redskins traded 3 years of 1st and 2nd to move up from 6.  Those guys are bound to get more rope before they are benched.  Likewise, guys picked later, like Webb, Rudolph and Lynch, may have the luxury of sitting.  They were picked later because they are so much further away.

This is really all it is. If you have a playoff caliber team and a sure thing ahead of the kid you drafted, yeah fine. Take the shot. Otherwise this conversation is preposterous. The football player that you used a football draft pick on should be playing football. Playing football is beneficial for professional football players. Not playing football is not good for professional football players. There's no grey area and this is not subjective. Experience is good. A lack of it is bad.

[Larz]

These things tend to sort themselves out with injuries, bad losses, great wins 

Darnold tried his first audibles last week 

The first 3 games are 11 days apart 

Let's chill and be patient 

[NoBowles]

17 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

This is really all it is. If you have a playoff caliber team and a sure thing ahead of the kid you drafted, yeah fine. Take the shot. Otherwise this conversation is preposterous. The football player that you used a football draft pick on should be playing football. Playing football is beneficial for professional football players. Not playing football is not good for professional football players. There's no grey area and this is not subjective. Experience is good. A lack of it is bad.

Lol

[NoBowles]

There was once a hockey study on player development, comparing development from games vs. practice.

They deduced that 1 practice was equivalent to around 10 or 11 games worth of development.

The reasoning was that players can learn much better when they don't have to fear making mistakes as they would in a game. They can take chances and try things out, without hurting confidence. 

This is not to say that games and live bullets are not important, they obviously are, but practices are where players develop far more than in games. I doubt that football has the same ratio as hockey, but there is no doubt in my mind that football players develop far more in practice than they do in games.

I don't think most people have a clue of how complicated the NFL QB position is. This notion of they either can play, or can't play, is flat out asinine. A successful QB needs a ton of skills, physical and mental. When a QB loses confidence, or second guesses themselves, bad things happen.

You play your prized QB when he is ready, whenever that is. If its week 1 this year, great, if its week 8, fine. 

 

[RutgersJetFan]

27 minutes ago, Larz said:

These things tend to sort themselves out with injuries, bad losses, great wins 

Darnold tried his first audibles last week 

The first 3 games are 11 days apart 

Let's chill and be patient 

My man Abraham Lincoln said it best when he tweeted: “The best thing to solve pussification is to throw them straight into the deep water. Otherwise take up knitting. #staywoke”

[Larz]

11 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

I understand your thinking but Bowles is coming back next year unless a major disaster happens. Either way, it's not Bowles developing him it's Bates. 

While this roster isn't anything special, there ARE weapons to throw to and support the guy. It's up to how the oline performs. Which is why you wait a month or so and see how things are going. Week 1 definitely not.

Bates is the whole key. Supposed very bright guy and helped cutler to his best season. 

Bates enjoys a good reputation. 

Between bates and McCown, Darnold is in good hands 

He's ready when he's ready 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 hour ago, NoBowles said:

There was once a hockey study on player development, comparing development from games vs. practice.

They deduced that 1 practice was equivalent to around 10 or 11 games worth of development.

The reasoning was that players can learn much better when they don't have to fear making mistakes as they would in a game. They can take chances and try things out, without hurting confidence. 

This is not to say that games and live bullets are not important, they obviously are, but practices are where players develop far more than in games. I doubt that football has the same ratio as hockey, but there is no doubt in my mind that football players develop far more in practice than they do in games.

I don't think most people have a clue of how complicated the NFL QB position is. This notion of they either can play, or can't play, is flat out asinine. A successful QB needs a ton of skills, physical and mental. When a QB loses confidence, or second guesses themselves, bad things happen.

You play your prized QB when he is ready, whenever that is. If its week 1 this year, great, if its week 8, fine. 

 

What does that even mean, when he's ready? You know how he could have been more ready? He could have started another year or two in college. But they got this CTE? And like any other sane human Darnold decided to cash out his presumptive top five draft slot and not get the sh*t kicked out of him for free for another year. So here he is. Ready or not. There's no catching up. The kid stays in the picture and if he's not out there from go then it's a bad sign no matter what you goofballs want to tell yourselves about how that was the plan all along or some sh*t. And your one practice is worth ten games unattributed made-up nonsense is stupid.

[NoBowles]

8 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

What does that even mean, when he's ready? You know how he could have been more ready? He could have started another year or two in college. But they got this CTE? And like any other sane human Darnold decided to cash out his presumptive top five draft slot and not get the sh*t kicked out of him for free for another year. So here he is. Ready or not. There's no catching up. The kid stays in the picture and if he's not out there from go then it's a bad sign no matter what you goofballs want to tell yourselves about how that was the plan all along or some sh*t. And your one practice is worth ten games unattributed made-up nonsense is stupid.

Your stance isn't even worth debating honestly. You have obviously never played a fast paced sport at even a remotely high enough level to understand what you are talking about. There is a reason people practice, and that reps matter.... The concept of ready is really not at all complicated if you apply even an ounce of brain power to it. The age of Madden and Fantasy Sports has made experts out of every overweight 23 year old who never touched a football in their life....

[sec101row23]

10 hours ago, NoBowles said:

There was once a hockey study on player development, comparing development from games vs. practice.

They deduced that 1 practice was equivalent to around 10 or 11 games worth of development.

The reasoning was that players can learn much better when they don't have to fear making mistakes as they would in a game. They can take chances and try things out, without hurting confidence. 

This is not to say that games and live bullets are not important, they obviously are, but practices are where players develop far more than in games. I doubt that football has the same ratio as hockey, but there is no doubt in my mind that football players develop far more in practice than they do in games.

I don't think most people have a clue of how complicated the NFL QB position is. This notion of they either can play, or can't play, is flat out asinine. A successful QB needs a ton of skills, physical and mental. When a QB loses confidence, or second guesses themselves, bad things happen.

You play your prized QB when he is ready, whenever that is. If its week 1 this year, great, if its week 8, fine. 

 

I couldn’t disagree with this statement more.   QBs do not develop in practice, that is patently false.  They can learn the offense and the play calls and blocking schemes but they do not develop “far more” in practice.  There is no substitute for actual game play, the speed, the adjustments, the nerves, getting hit are things that you simply can not simulate in practice.  Any competent coach will tell you never know what a guy is until he starts and plays in real games, and there is no substitute for the amount of learning you get in actual games.  

 

 

[dbatesman]

22 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Sitting him for half of his rookie deal is a poor allocation of the resource.  When Rodgers came up the top Qbs were making $7-13M.  Now they are making $30M.  You have to make hay while you have the chance.     

This is an enormously important point that no one seems to be taking seriously.

[NoBowles]

5 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I couldn’t disagree with this statement more.   QBs do not develop in practice, that is patently false.  They can learn the offense and the play calls and blocking schemes but they do not develop “far more” in practice.  There is no substitute for actual game play, the speed, the adjustments, the nerves, getting hit are things that you simply can not simulate in practice.  Any competent coach will tell you never know what a guy is until he starts and plays in real games, and there is no substitute for the amount of learning you get in actual games.  

 

 

OK, so learning the offense, play calls and blocking schemes BEFORE getting into live games is not helpful, good to know......

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

OK, so learning the offense, play calls and blocking schemes BEFORE getting into live games is not helpful, good to know......

No, it is.  But your statement that you develop “far more” in practice is completely wrong.  

[NoBowles]

9 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

No, it is.  But your statement that you develop “far more” in practice is completely wrong.  

What is Darnold's skill rating in Madden yo?

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

What is Darnold's skill rating in Madden yo?

Are you a complete ******* retard or something?  Good discussion little man. 

[NoBowles]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

Are you a complete ******* retard or something?  Good discussion little man. 

Practice don't matter yo, live bullets, word

[sec101row23]

11 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

This is really all it is. If you have a playoff caliber team and a sure thing ahead of the kid you drafted, yeah fine. Take the shot. Otherwise this conversation is preposterous. The football player that you used a football draft pick on should be playing football. Playing football is beneficial for professional football players. Not playing football is not good for professional football players. There's no grey area and this is not subjective. Experience is good. A lack of it is bad.

Exactly, there is no substitute for game play.  A QB needs to play to learn the position.  Any coach would agree with that.  You only learn so much in a practice setting, as you said it’s not even debateable.  

[NoBowles]

The concept of ready isn't really all that complicated. Let me try to break it down for those who don't understand....

If you are in 2nd grade, and you have only learned addition and subtraction, and not yet learned multiplication or division, you are ready to take a 2nd grade math test on addition or subtraction. It doesn't mean you will do well at it, but you are ready to take it in that you have learned the material.

You are not ready to take a 4th grade test on multiplication or division, as you have not learned the material yet, and there would be no benefit whatsoever to taking the 4th grade math test.

Now, if you are in ALM math, which I doubt for those who need to understand this concept, you may be ready to take that 4th grade math test, and by all means, it will be great experience.

Some people are ready at different points than other people. Good experience is good, bad experience is not so good.

Someone is ready when they have a reasonable chance of performing at an acceptable level. That varies from person to person, situation to situation. If they are not able to play at an acceptable level, you are setting them up for failure. Failure in this market is not so good for everyone. Some can handle it better than others.

Hell, Eli Manning was being labeled a complete and utter bust in week 16 of his 4th year, when he happened to win a SB. A lot of Giants fans and media were saying its time to move on. Eli's own father said that Eli had the right personality to deal with that, but Petyon would not have been able to handle that. Peyton must suck according to the Madden/FFB experts.

Tomorrow, when everyone gets this concept, we can move onto something a little more challenging.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

The Jets are only in contention for franchise QB development this year, that said, winning games Sam watches and learns from or games he starts matters

I would like to see the O-line gel and I would like to see Bridgewater play before Sam starts this year

I am not in favor or a complete red shirt year (unless McCown or Bridgewater are league MVP) and I do not want Sam's first game to be against BB - not worth the risk of some underhanded scheme

Montana appeared in all 16 regular season games during his rookie season, only throwing 23 passes, Walsh put him in situations to build his confidence and learn the game, he was a backup to Steve DeBerg.  Bowles/Bates have an opportunity to follow a similar script and I think they should...   One of Sam's greatest attributes is his confidence, don't screw that up, let him develop, give him the keys when he is ready

 

[BCJet]

There is a ZERO, repeat ZERO chance that Sam Darnold doesnt take regular season snaps for this team in 2018.

Maybe its week 1, maybe its week 8 or maybe we have a record of 4-6 and its week 11, but there is ZERO chance a kid with his talent sits for an entire season to "learn" from Josh McCown.

I am not in favor or rushing him into live games, but that is what the coaching staff is for.  If he is able to have enough comprehension of a limited playbook that contains some similar plays from the USC offense, then he should start.  If he is getting overwhelmed with protections, play calling, audibles etc. then he should watch from the sidelines, get more comfortable and progress enough to get meaningful, developmental snaps at some point in the season.

It amazes me that people use Aaron Rogers as an example, as if he wouldnt be a great QB had he played in his first season.  The guy wasnt sitting behind a 38 year old journeyman QB, he was sitting behind a first ballot HOF who was an icon to his franchise.  That situation couldnt be remotely further from what we have here.  Please stop using that example.

[dbatesman]

12 hours ago, NoBowles said:

There was once a hockey study on player development, comparing development from games vs. practice.

They deduced that 1 practice was equivalent to around 10 or 11 games worth of development.

The reasoning was that players can learn much better when they don't have to fear making mistakes as they would in a game. They can take chances and try things out, without hurting confidence. 

This is not to say that games and live bullets are not important, they obviously are, but practices are where players develop far more than in games. I doubt that football has the same ratio as hockey, but there is no doubt in my mind that football players develop far more in practice than they do in games.

I don't think most people have a clue of how complicated the NFL QB position is. This notion of they either can play, or can't play, is flat out asinine. A successful QB needs a ton of skills, physical and mental. When a QB loses confidence, or second guesses themselves, bad things happen.

You play your prized QB when he is ready, whenever that is. If its week 1 this year, great, if its week 8, fine. 

 

On 1/22/2018 at 5:17 PM, NoBowles said:

I am just commenting on the back napkin statisticians who throw around math and stats they don't understand and act as though they are smarter than the rest of the board because they read an article.

 

[NoBowles]

1 minute ago, BCJet said:

There is a ZERO, repeat ZERO chance that Sam Darnold doesnt take regular season snaps for this team in 2018.

Maybe its week 1, maybe its week 8 or maybe we have a record of 4-6 and its week 11, but there is ZERO chance a kid with his talent sits for an entire season to "learn" from Josh McCown.

I am not in favor or rushing him into live games, but that is what the coaching staff is for.  If he is able to have enough comprehension of a limited playbook that contains some similar plays from the USC offense, then he should start.  If he is getting overwhelmed with protections, play calling, audibles etc. then he should watch from the sidelines, get more comfortable and progress enough to get meaningful, developmental snaps at some point in the season.

It amazes me that people use Aaron Rogers as an example, as if he wouldnt be a great QB had he played in his first season.  The guy wasnt sitting behind a 38 year old journeyman QB, he was sitting behind a first ballot HOF who was an icon to his franchise.  That situation couldnt be remotely further from what we have here.  Please stop using that example.

I agree with most of what you write here, but at the same time, there is no way we know if Rodgers was ready to play in his first season. What if he was being overwhelmed by protections, play calling, etc.? I don't think Rodgers is an example either way, for or against starting.

Each player, each scenario is unique. There is no bible on how to develop a QB, just like there is no playbook on raising a kid. Each kid needs to be treated on a case by case basis. What I do for one kid may not work for another. The coaching staff needs to figure out when the QB is ready, not someone on a message board who has never touched a football in their life.

[JustInFudge]

On 5/8/2018 at 8:59 AM, #27TheDominator said:

I know you think you are being all reasonable, but you're not.  Nobody is claiming the kid has to start out like gangbusters or expects miracles from day 1.  Most of us don't think he needs to start week 1.  OTOH, I am getting a little tired of hearing about Aaron Rodgers.  There is a difference between sitting behind Favre and sitting behind Josh McCown.  Besides, it was a decade ago and the rules were different.

IMO, if he is not starting in 2019 we will have a new staff.  Sitting him for half of his rookie deal is a poor allocation of the resource.  When Rodgers came up the top Qbs were making $7-13M.  Now they are making $30M.  You have to make hay while you have the chance.     

I honestly dont think there is a chance he's not starting week 1 next seasons. 

However, I'm curious whtat does make hay mean in the Jets scenario?  Do you honestly think they'll be a contender during the time that Darnold will be on the rookie deal?  I mean, I get your point 100% but I just dont see that being a realistic time frame and throwing back to all the Cousins debates about paying/allocating that much of the cap to the QB position...if Darnold is the real deal, he's getting a mega-contract in the next 5 years and I think taking the necessary steps to ensuring he's the real deal is more important than maximizing his playing time during his rookie contract.  If that makes sense?

 

 

[UntouchableCrew]

Players learn and develop drastically more by playing than they do in practice. This is even more true under the current CBA where practice reps are limited -- pretty much any reputable source who is knowledgeable about playing QB in the NFL will tell you this.

Learning the terminology and the offensive system isn't the struggle here. Adjusting to the speed of the game, making complicated pre and post snap reads quickly, and making accurate anticipatory throws into tighter windows are where young QBs need to improve. Practice is nice but nothing substitutes for real game reps.

[NoBowles]

31 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

 

 

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

19 minutes ago, JiF said:

I honestly dont think there is a chance he's not starting week 1 next seasons. 

However, I'm curious whtat does make hay mean in the Jets scenario?  Do you honestly think they'll be a contender during the time that Darnold will be on the rookie deal?  I mean, I get your point 100% but I just dont see that being a realistic time frame and throwing back to all the Cousins debates about paying/allocating that much of the cap to the QB position...if Darnold is the real deal, he's getting a mega-contract in the next 5 years and I think taking the necessary steps to ensuring he's the real deal is more important than maximizing his playing time during his rookie contract.  If that makes sense?

 

 

Who says they're mutually exclusive?

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Who says they're mutually exclusive?

I think if we're arguing the merits of worrying about his overall development vs. getting the most out of his rookie deal, then those 2 lines of thought would be mutually exclusive because one is worried about a defined time frame and the other is not worried about said time frame yet the overall success from the life time of the product, cost be damned. 

 

[sec101row23]

47 minutes ago, JiF said:

I honestly dont think there is a chance he's not starting week 1 next seasons. 

However, I'm curious whtat does make hay mean in the Jets scenario?  Do you honestly think they'll be a contender during the time that Darnold will be on the rookie deal?  I mean, I get your point 100% but I just dont see that being a realistic time frame and throwing back to all the Cousins debates about paying/allocating that much of the cap to the QB position...if Darnold is the real deal, he's getting a mega-contract in the next 5 years and I think taking the necessary steps to ensuring he's the real deal is more important than maximizing his playing time during his rookie contract.  If that makes sense?

 

 

I think he’s playing by week 4 or 5 at the latest. Let him take his lumps and make his mistakes this year.  Come back next year with an improved O-line and hopefully a competent receiving group, you should be able to compete in year 3.  That would give you 3 seasons of being able to contend on his rookie deal.  Mac has two more off seasons to surround his young QB with the necessary tools to succeed.  

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

I honestly dont think there is a chance he's not starting week 1 next seasons. 

However, I'm curious whtat does make hay mean in the Jets scenario?  Do you honestly think they'll be a contender during the time that Darnold will be on the rookie deal?  I mean, I get your point 100% but I just dont see that being a realistic time frame and throwing back to all the Cousins debates about paying/allocating that much of the cap to the QB position...if Darnold is the real deal, he's getting a mega-contract in the next 5 years and I think taking the necessary steps to ensuring he's the real deal is more important than maximizing his playing time during his rookie contract.  If that makes sense?

 

 

You don't think they can be contenders within 4 years?  I am not particularly agressive and if I were GM I could completely overhaul the roster in three.  My point is that if they sit him 2018 and 2019, then he will get experience in 2020.  Then in 2021 we will expect to be .500 or above and contenders in 2022.  Just in time to give him a new contract. I don't think the Jimmy Garopplo model of starting 5 games before deserving a $140M contract is the one to follow. 

I would suggest we get him some experience in 2018, expect him to start and take some lumps in 2019 and we damn well better be ready to seriously compete in 2020.  I mean for the playoffs, the division, the super bowl.  Not this lucking into 9-7/10-6 bullsh*t. 

[slats]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Players learn and develop drastically more by playing than they do in practice. This is even more true under the current CBA where practice reps are limited -- pretty much any reputable source who is knowledgeable about playing QB in the NFL will tell you this.

Learning the terminology and the offensive system isn't the struggle here. Adjusting to the speed of the game, making complicated pre and post snap reads quickly, and making accurate anticipatory throws into tighter windows are where young QBs need to improve. Practice is nice but nothing substitutes for real game reps.

 

Obviously, it's a combination of the two. Give the kid an acclimation period, sure, but then throw him into the fire. I think a few weeks of seeing real regular season game action from the sidelines would be beneficial to his development, but only to a point. Give him that tutorial, then take the training wheels off. 

Once he's playing, the practices become more valuable. Now the team is breaking down film of Darnold, going over what he did right and what he needs to work on. The practices can then focus on those areas, breaking those bad habits, improving his skills. But yeah, he needs to be playing to really work on his skills. 

1 hour ago, JiF said:

I honestly dont think there is a chance he's not starting week 1 next seasons. 

However, I'm curious whtat does make hay mean in the Jets scenario?  Do you honestly think they'll be a contender during the time that Darnold will be on the rookie deal?  I mean, I get your point 100% but I just dont see that being a realistic time frame and throwing back to all the Cousins debates about paying/allocating that much of the cap to the QB position...if Darnold is the real deal, he's getting a mega-contract in the next 5 years and I think taking the necessary steps to ensuring he's the real deal is more important than maximizing his playing time during his rookie contract.  If that makes sense?

3

I think you have to think that way. If you believe in the program you're putting together and the QB you just drafted, you have to believe that you're putting a legitimate contender together within the next 3-4 years. Otherwise, why do you do this for a living? 

They should have both short-term and long-term goals for Darnold. His development is absolutely key. Playing him his rookie year is part of that development, and also getting the most out of the #6 pick in the draft and three second rounders. Actually winning with him before he hits that second contract should be something of a must, no? Financially, that's when they'll be better equipped to put a team around him. Once he's making $30-something million a year, there's a lot less to go around. You kinda see the Seahawks having a tough time keeping that team together after Wilson signed his big contract. That's NFL reality. Darnold reaching his potential on his rookie deal is probably the best chance for the Jets to get a Super Bowl. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

You don't think they can be contenders within 4 years?  I am not particularly agressive and if I were GM I could completely overhaul the roster in three.  My point is that if they sit him 2018 and 2019, then he will get experience in 2020.  Then in 2021 we will expect to be .500 or above and contenders in 2022.  Just in time to give him a new contract. I don't think the Jimmy Garopplo model of starting 5 games before deserving a $140M contract is the one to follow. 

I wouild suggest we get him some experience in 2018, expect him to start and take some lumps in 2019 and we damn well better be ready to seriously compete in 2020.  I mean for the playoffs, the division, the super bowl.  Not this lucking into 9-7/10-6 bullsh*t. 

That's fair.  Probably just the SOJ coming out in me.

[JustInFudge]

58 minutes ago, slats said:

Obviously, it's a combination of the two. Give the kid an acclimation period, sure, but then throw him into the fire. I think a few weeks of seeing real regular season game action from the sidelines would be beneficial to his development, but only to a point. Give him that tutorial, then take the training wheels off. 

Once he's playing, the practices become more valuable. Now the team is breaking down film of Darnold, going over what he did right and what he needs to work on. The practices can then focus on those areas, breaking those bad habits, improving his skills. But yeah, he needs to be playing to really work on his skills. 

I think you have to think that way. If you believe in the program you're putting together and the QB you just drafted, you have to believe that you're putting a legitimate contender together within the next 3-4 years. Otherwise, why do you do this for a living? 

They should have both short-term and long-term goals for Darnold. His development is absolutely key. Playing him his rookie year is part of that development, and also getting the most out of the #6 pick in the draft and three second rounders. Actually winning with him before he hits that second contract should be something of a must, no? Financially, that's when they'll be better equipped to put a team around him. Once he's making $30-something million a year, there's a lot less to go around. You kinda see the Seahawks having a tough time keeping that team together after Wilson signed his big contract. That's NFL reality. Darnold reaching his potential on his rookie deal is probably the best chance for the Jets to get a Super Bowl. 

Agreed.  Good points from both of you. Like I said, probably the SOJ fans in me coming out.

[RutgersJetFan]

5 hours ago, dbatesman said:

This is an enormously important point that no one seems to be taking seriously.

Ahh I dunno. All these big companies, Jerry, they just write everything off. 

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

You don't think they can be contenders within 4 years?  I am not particularly agressive and if I were GM I could completely overhaul the roster in three.  My point is that if they sit him 2018 and 2019, then he will get experience in 2020.  Then in 2021 we will expect to be .500 or above and contenders in 2022.  Just in time to give him a new contract. I don't think the Jimmy Garopplo model of starting 5 games before deserving a $140M contract is the one to follow. 

I wouild suggest we get him some experience in 2018, expect him to start and take some lumps in 2019 and we damn well better be ready to seriously compete in 2020.  I mean for the playoffs, the division, the super bowl.  Not this lucking into 9-7/10-6 bullsh*t. 

Maybe we can compete in the year 2100