Seymour knows less about football then we thought.

[RSJ]

OK so we all know RichardSeymour takes ideas from kffl then pawns them off as his own on other message boards. But now he starts a poll on another message board listing the top QB's ever. On his list are the likes of Dan Foutes, Jim Kelly, Steve Yong and Bart Starr. But where is Joe Namath? No place to be found that's where. Then he says don't worry Namath would never be voted among the top 7. Fine but wtf do you have Steve Young and Jim Kelly up there for. And Steve Young has a ton of votes obviously from homer 49er fans. I swear this guy started watching football in 2001.

[Smizzy]

Shhh he has a hot model girlfriend

[RichardSeymour]

OK so we all know RichardSeymour takes ideas from kffl then pawns them off as his own on other message boards. But now he starts a poll on another message board listing the top QB's ever. On his list are the likes of Dan Foutes, Jim Kelly, Steve Yong and Bart Starr. But where is Joe Namath? No place to be found that's where. Then he says don't worry Namath would never be voted among the top 7. Fine but wtf do you have Steve Young and Jim Kelly up there for. And Steve Young has a ton of votes obviously from homer 49er fans. I swear this guy started watching football in 2001.

Sherry, you're a moron. I take ideas from myself and pawn them off on this messageboard (particularly early on when there wasn't much football talk here). I didn't realize I had to ask you for permission.

Please show me one example of this horse**** accusation of yours. One.

Sherry there is one vote for "other" right now and I believe that's for Aikman. No one other than you has been crying salty tears over Joe Willie.

Namath will make the poll and I'm sure he'll end up somewhere in the top 20, possibly the top 10, but particularly given sentiment on KFFL I can pretty much guaraneffingtee you that Montana, Marino, Elway, Favre, Young, Bradshaw, and Unitas will all go before Namath, and don't be surprised if Tarkenton and Staubach also go before Namath.

Don't blame me that Young is being held in high esteem, I'm just running the freaking poll. Take it up with the guys on the board if it chafes your vagina to see Young getting so many votes.

Also note that I specifically excluded Brady and Manning--- in part because they still have a long way to go in their careers, but also in part because I didn't want the sizable Pats fan populace on KFFL to affect things more than necessary, and didn't want it to become a Brady thread.

and I'm sorry, there IS a Brady thread on KFFL but that was started by a Ravens fan, take it up with him.

Fouts was SPECIFICALLY added because 4 or 5 people said he should be next on the list. I determined the 10 for the original poll, but since then I've been adding guys based on who people tell me to add. I'm actually not a huge Fouts fan by any means.

You need to chill the **** out dude.

[RichardSeymour]

And Sherry, why aren't you trying to make your "Only Pats fans would take Brady over Manning" and "Hostetler, Lucas, and Testaverde had success with the Pats coaches so take what Brady has done with a huge grain of salt" arguments over here?

How about these gems?

Give it time and Brady will be exposed for the true fraud he is.

I have just seen this staff make way too many guys look way better than they actually are. Take Jeff Hostetler for example. He was in his prime and looked nasty only to go to the raiders and crumble like a little girl. Ray lucas 6-2, Testeverde was like 14-1 at one point with this staff. The numbers are rediculous and that is all I'm saying. If I'm starting a franchise tomorrow I would not only pick Manning ahead of Brady but I would pick him way ahead.

Yes, I think they could have won 3 super bowl with a lot of the other QB's in the league.

I suspect most JETS FANS here don't share your opinion of Brady fer chrissakes...

[bitonti]

save the drama for yer mama 8)

[RSJ]

Seymour your act grows old. We know you steal everyone elses ideas and pawn them off as your own. You are a tom brady butt pirate ass clown.

[RichardSeymour]

and you make accusations you can't back up with anything.

[RSJ]

and you make accusations you can't back up with anything.

Shut up you moron. I'm done with you now turn off the lights and go make love to your tom brady bobble head

[RichardSeymour]

Go to your local drug store and look for some of this....

[RSJ]

Why do you need me to pick some up for you or your mom?

[124]

Board Fight

[Smizzy]

The only way to resolve this is to have a bare knuckle brawl, to the death.

Ready....and.....GO!

[Green Jets & Ham]

Here's the deal, from someone who saw every QB from Namath on

Joe Namath was arguably the most talented QB who ever lived ... but his career was racked by injuries {serious, career ending type of injuries in those days and even now to some extent} and he was a shell of his former self at an age when most QB's are just entering their prime

But when he was healthy Joe Namath had the type of talent OTHER GREAT QUARTERBACKS marveled at

Wtaching him throw the football ... even in warm-ups ... was like watching Babe Ruth taking BP ... other GREAT PLAYERS would stop and watch, and his talent was jaw-dropping

But alas he is the Kellen Winslow or Gale Sayers of QB's ... jaw-dropping talent but a career cut short by injuries, thus his career stats will never tell you how great he was

For that you have to be a historian ... you have to know how his peers viewed him {when healthy} ... you have to watch film of Namath when he was right

Bear Bryant called him the greatest football player {at any position} he ever coached

Vince Lombardi called him THE PERFECT QUARTERBACK and the greatest passer of the football he had ever seen

Johnny Unitas said he was in awe of Namath's talent

Dan Marino, till this day, calls Namath his idol and the reason he wanted to play Quarterback ... said that was true of every QB from Western PA

Roger Staubach was also in awe of his talent

And the list is endless

But you don't need any of that if you are a student of the game ... you need only watch Namath on film ... till this day I HAVE NEVER seen anyone who can throw the football with Joe Namath at his peak

He threw the most beautiful TIGHT SPIRAL I have ever seen ... and I'm talkin long distances ... this man could literally launch the ball 60 or 70 Yards in the air with the flick of his wrist, on a tight spiral ... a spiral that spun like a top ... that ball looked like a spinning missile

And his form was perfect ... from his drop back, to his set, to his throwing motion, to his lightning quick release ... all picture perfect

Till this day I would suggest to any youngster who wishes to play QB that he should study Joe Namath's mechanics ... his mechanics were PERFECT

And when that ball was spinning like a top ... cutting through the air {and the strong winds at Shea} like an ICBM ... it really was a site to behold

I can see why Lombardi called him THE PERFECT PASSER ... I AGREE ... 30+ Years later and its still the closest thing to perfection I have seen on a football field

Not Marino, not Elway, not Bradshaw, not Fouts, etc etc ... NOBODY could throw a football like Joe Namath at his peak, and NOBODY looked prettier doing it {i.e. had better mechanics}

[TomShane]

Brady is over-rated until he has to do it by himself. In fairness, you could make the same assessment about, in a way, about Montana, but Brady has never had to face and beat the teams that Montana had to beat--the Johnson Cowboys; the Parcells Giants; the John Robinson Rams. Who has Bradu beaten? The Martz Rams? Please.

[The Troll]

Brady is over-rated until he has to do it by himself. In fairness, you could make the same assessment about, in a way, about Montana, but Brady has never had to face and beat the teams that Montana had to beat--the Johnson Cowboys; the Parcells Giants; the John Robinson Rams. Who has Bradu beaten? The Martz Rams? Please.

Not to defend Brady, but Montana didn't have to deal with the Johnson Cowboys. The Johnson Cowboys were still playing for top 10 picks whenever Leonard Marshall send Montana to the sidelines for two years.

However, Montana DID have to compete with the Elway Broncos, the Joe Gibbs Redskins, and the Ditka Bears.

I'd say that's a bit tougher than the Cowher Steelers and the Martz Rams.

[Green Jets & Ham]

Let me say one last thing I have long suspected, and folks like Marino have also made mention of this when he talks about emulating Namath as a young QB in Pennsylvania

When Marino first took the NFL by storm he was being compared with Joe Namath ... folks saw the similarities in mechanics and that Quick release, etc

Anyhow, the post Joe Namath generation produced a number of Great QB's ... and I'm talking about the generation that immediately proceeded Namath {Bradshaw, Staubach, Monatna, Elway, Fouts, Bert Jones, etc}

All of these men, IMHO, be it consciously or unconsciously, were indirectly influenced by Joe Namath ... I think he played a pivitol roll in that next wave of Great QB's {or what I would call the Golden age of QB's}

Some of them may have been directly influenced by Namath, seeking to emulate him as neophytes {Sandlot, H.S. and College}, as so many young QB's of that era did ... or they may have been influenced by coaches {at every level along the way} who marveled at Namath's passing-skills/mechanics and were seeking to impart some of that into the kids they coached

But I lived during that era and I am telling you, WITHOUT QUESTION, that Namath had a huge impact on the way Quarterbacking mechanics were precieved, emulated, and taught

So in some respects, and we can debate the degree, I am absolutely convinced that Namath played some role in ushering in the Golden age of QB's in the mid 70's and well into the 80's

If you disagree that's fine too, but you just don't know what it was like to be a kid playing football in the late 60's and early 70's ... every QB wanted to emulate Joe Namath ... I saw more Joe Namath impersonators on the football field during that era than I can count, and that was in my town alone ... I suspect towns all across America were seeing much the same

But why do I feel this resulted in a Golden age of QB's?

Because these kids were emulating the right QB ... they were emulating a QB who had PERFECT MECHANICS ... and without even knowing it that made them better Quarterbacks

Same for the coaches who studied Namath and taught his mechanics to the kids they coached

That's why I say that any youngster who wishes to play QB would be wise, TILL THIS DAY, to study Joe Namath's mechanics ... his mechancs were the picture of perfection

[Maxman]

If you read this thread and you don't know anything else. You walk away realizing one thing. HAM IS THE MAN! Great post about Namath.

[PFSIKH]

Brady is over-rated until he has to do it by himself. In fairness, you could make the same assessment about, in a way, about Montana, but Brady has never had to face and beat the teams that Montana had to beat--the Johnson Cowboys; the Parcells Giants; the John Robinson Rams. Who has Bradu beaten? The Martz Rams? Please.

How could Brady? He plays in an era when teams can not stock pile talent. Yes, the Patriots will never be as good talent wise as the earlier dynasties, but the earlier dynasties never had to overcome the salary cap.

GJH - Great post.

[JonEJet]

Seymour your act grows old. We know you steal everyone elses ideas and pawn them off as your own. You are a tom brady butt pirate a$$ clown.

Not suprised at all

These BS polls, and stats he comes up from nowhere are definately suspect

And since he lives in Western Mass.....I'm thinking the model he "says" he goes out wiht must be more like Tom Brady, rather than Cindy Brady :wink:

[Maxman]

I like Seymour and I think he is really smart.

But he and I have argued about baseball plenty in the past and I have told him I think he relies too much on the stats.

The numbers don't always tell the whole story.

[PFSIKH]

I like Seymour and I think he is really smart.

But he and I have argued about baseball plenty in the past and I have told him I think he relies too much on the stats.

The numbers don't always tell the whole story.

Numbers say Nom-ah is better. :wink:

[Savage69]

That's why I say that any youngster who wishes to play QB would be wise, TILL THIS DAY, to study Joe Namath's mechanics ... his mechancs were the picture of perfection

You have to remember Ham most Fans don't have a

clue about the 60's or 70's..It's just what they

have seen that's relevant to them..Hell at Bama

before Joe had his first knee operation he could

scramble..If Joe went to the Pro's 100% Healthy

he would have rewritten quite a few records!

Another Guy I always liked that could zip it

almost as good as Joe was Sonny Jurgensen! Joe

also called his own Game and was a ace at reading

Defense's..Plus unlike Bradshaw's HOF laden Team

Joe had only one other HOF'er Maynard! George

Sauer probley could have been if he wasn't such

a Hippie!!

[SoFlaJets]

Savage I found a great site-you can go there and read recaps of the championship year(any year)and see that the running game(Emerson Boozer,Matt Snell Bill Mathis and even Billie Joe) and B/U QB Babe Parilli were real big parts of the teams'success.Weeb was a smart coach he knew when to take Joe Namath out of the line of fire-something Herm would be wise to learn from-especially now that he actually HAS a decent back-up QB.If we're winning in the 4th quarter I wanna see Jay Feidler and NOT Chad Pennington during mop-up time doing those kneel downs and QB sneaks.Let Chad wave a towel and be the cheerleader FROM THE SIDELINES and not risk getting hurt.Let's face it he's as fragile as Joe was and precautions should be made.This is where Herm earns his pay.Making smart decisions of caution.

http://nflhistory.net/linescores/index.asp#70s

[Barton]

Numbers say Nom-ah is better. :wink:

actually, numbers say JETER is better. you wanna take this outside buddy???!!! (over to the baseball forum)

brady is a good QB, but he's not half as good as peyton manning. the patriots defense carried them to the superbowl all 3 years they won it. those teams were lights out in the playoffs leading to the superbowl. he's brad johnson, only slighty better, and lucky enough to play on a team with the best defense in the nfl. put him ANY OTHER TEAM, and he does jack squat. the same can not be said for peyton manning

[TomShane]

Here's the problem with using stats to judge a QB prior to the rule changes that turned football from rugby into the Coryell flying circus:

Johnny Unitas, widely considered the best QB of all time:

~Threw more TD's than INT's in only 8 of his 18 seasons.

~Completed less than 55% of his passes career

~In the 16 seasons where he played significant time, he averaged a paltry 2514 yards. Per SEASON.

~Finished with only 290 TD's against 253 INT's.

Imagine Brady or Pennington trying to find open receivers downfield against a defense that can chuck and hold all over the field. This is not to say that Namath was an amazing technician at QB. It only means that the standard--Unitas--is significantly lower than what alot of recent critics want to compare Namath's numbers to, such as Montana's or Manning's. You just can't do it.

[stormshadow19]

actually, numbers say JETER is better. you wanna take this outside buddy???!!! (over to the baseball forum)

brady is a good QB, but he's not half as good as peyton manning. the patriots defense carried them to the superbowl all 3 years they won it. those teams were lights out in the playoffs leading to the superbowl. he's brad johnson, only slighty better, and lucky enough to play on a team with the best defense in the nfl. put him ANY OTHER TEAM, and he does jack squat. the same can not be said for peyton manning

Who cares? Last year Carlos Gullien was better than both of em.

Brady is better than Manning. Why? He doesn't have the Orange and Blue complex. He could have had the scarlett and grey complex, but Ohio State sucks, and he lost his job to Drew Henson. To say he's Brad Johnson is just ignorant. While he may be a system QB, he's still won two Super Bowl MVP trophies. And, he graduated from Michigan. That speaks volumes for him. Had he graduated from Ohio State, he'd be another bust like Andy Katzenmoyer :wink:

[Barton]

Who cares? Last year Carlos Gullien was better than both of em.

Brady is better than Manning. Why? He doesn't have the Orange and Blue complex. He could have had the scarlett and grey complex, but Ohio State sucks, and he lost his job to Drew Henson. To say he's Brad Johnson is just ignorant. While he may be a system QB, he's still won two Super Bowl MVP trophies. And, he graduated from Michigan. That speaks volumes for him. Had he graduated from Ohio State, he'd be another bust like Andy Katzenmoyer :wink:

hes better than brad johnson, but not by alot

and he did not deserve either of those mvp trophies

hands down, ty law should have won it in 2001

and hands down, mike vrabel should have won it in 2003

Brady will struggle big time with Weis gone and mumbles calling the plays

[stormshadow19]

hes better than brad johnson, but not by alot

and he did not deserve either of those mvp trophies

hands down, ty law should have won it in 2001

and hands down, mike vrabel should have won it in 2003

Brady will struggle big time with Weis gone and mumbles calling the plays

Cause he won't be able to hear or understand him?

[Barton]

Cause he won't be able to hear or understand him?

[Rob D]

the patriots defense carried them to the superbowl all 3 years they won it.

Don't forget about Vinatieri's contribution. There is no way the Pats win their first SB without him.

If only the Jets had a clutch kicker like him.....

[Barton]

Don't forget about Vinatieri's contribution. There is no way the Pats win their first SB without him.

If only the Jets had a clutch kicker like him.....

vinatier might be the best kicker in the nfl, but lets not forget he MISSED 2 FIELD GOALS AGAINST CAROLINA in the SUPER BOWL in 2003.

he would have been the goat of the game if the patriots would have lost, vinatieri was fortunate enough to have a 3rd chance.

[Rob D]

vinatier might be the best kicker in the nfl, but lets not forget he MISSED 2 FIELD GOALS AGAINST CAROLINA in the SUPER BOWL in 2003.

he would have been the goat of the game if the patriots would have lost, vinatieri was fortunate enough to have a 3rd chance.

A missed FG in the first half is not a clutch kick. A game winning FG is.

If the Pats had lost that SB then the defense would have been the goats for allowing Jake Delhomme to pick them apart.

[Barton]

A missed FG in the first half is not a clutch kick. A game winning FG is.

If the Pats had lost that SB then the defense would have been the goats for allowing Jake Delhomme to pick them apart.

yes and no. if viateiri had made just 1 of those field goals I am pretty sure the pats would have won the game anyways, but then everything else in the game changes etc etc

[Alk]

Don't forget about Vinatieri's contribution. There is no way the Pats win their first SB without him.

If only the Jets had a clutch kicker like him.....

So you are telling me that no other kicker in the NFL could have made that kick? On the same hand, do you think Pennington could have led the Patriots into FG range in the first place?

[Barton]

So you are telling me that no other kicker in the NFL could have made that kick? On the same hand, do you think Pennington could have led the Patriots into FG range in the first place?

with weis as his coordinator, yes. pennington can make all the throws that brady can, and hell pennington put brien in position to kick the 1st missed field goal did he not?