DT fatigue and Leonard Williams are not good reasons to avoid taking Quinnen Williams OR Ed Oliver

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I personally would rather draft a guy 6-8 places higher than expected rather then take a DT at 3. There are many players who don't get drafted in the top 5 that are Hall of Famers. There are also many examples of Hall of Fame scouting reports on rookies who never live up to that billing. 

Well yeah, because there's 7 rounds and UDFA.  But that doesn't excuse reaching for somebody.  How do you know the DT we pass on won't be a future HOFer?  Would you be upset 15 years down the road because of the position he played?

Draft a guy who has the best shot at being elite at a position that matters.  Period. 

[#27TheDominator]

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Did I inadvertently pee in your eye recently? 

I'm sure it was intentional. 

4 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I personally would rather draft a guy 6-8 places higher than expected rather then take a DT at 3. There are many players who don't get drafted in the top 5 that are Hall of Famers. There are also many examples of Hall of Fame scouting reports on rookies who never live up to that billing. 

I don't think your first two sentences go together.  Drafting a guy higher than expected because you think he will be great may net a HOF player.  Drafting a guy higher because you are sick of drafting DTs and have a need on the offensive line is how you end up with guys like Ereck Flowers.

[choon328]

5 hours ago, bitonti said:

news broke this weekend that Cardinals reportedly meeting with Nick Bosa and he's the lead dog at 1.1 

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/cardinals/2019/04/01/nick-bosa-arizona-cardinals-2019-nfl-draft-speculation-rumors-news/3331419002/ 

Assume the SF take one of Allen or Williams (and Bosa is #1 on their board too) the Jets have to take the best available player (Williams or Oliver, if that's their grade)

No one knows what will happen but Bosa going 1 and no QBs taken by 1.3 has always been a realistic scenario 

again, if no DT< the question is what's the pick at 1.3? rashan Gary? 

If there is no trade available I still go elsewhere besides DT. CB, Edge, OL are all way bigger needs and the difference in players is not as big as some of you are making it. 

That being said I actually think this is best case scenario for the Jets. It leaves every QB available that has been projected top 10; Murray, Haskins and Lock. The Raiders are right behind the Jets and are visiting with all of the QB's. Somebody will try to jump them to get their #1 guy and not risk waiting for that guy to fall to them. You can not discount the urgency a team and owner puts on themselves to bring in the next "Franchise" guy. A team can eliminate all of the risk of losing their preference by having their choice of QB's. I actually hope the board falls like this bc I think the Jets will have multiple suitors trying to jump the Raiders and the compensation will sky rocket.

[choon328]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I'm sure it was intentional. 

I don't think your first two sentences go together.  Drafting a guy higher than expected because you think he will be great may net a HOF player.  Drafting a guy higher because you are sick of drafting DTs and have a need on the offensive line is how you end up with guys like Ereck Flowers.

You're acting like beyond the top 3 players there are a bunch of jags. That's just not the case in this draft. If you like a guy at 10 you'd like him at 3. Obviously trading back would be ideal bc I think the strength of this draft is in rounds 2 and 3. I think there will be a lot of offensive players in round 2 with 1st round grades and a lot of offensive players in round 3 that will have 2nd round grades on them. Trading back at least once but preferably twice to pick up a few extra picks in rounds 2 & 3 would be the best thing for this team even if it means taking a little less than the actual value. I'd drop out of the top 10 preferably in the middle of the round and take the best offensive lineman available no matter the position. But that's just my preference, I understand that people have different opinions.

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, choon328 said:

You're acting like beyond the top 3 players there are a bunch of jags. That's just not the case in this draft. If you like a guy at 10 you'd like him at 3. Obviously trading back would be ideal bc I think the strength of this draft is in rounds 2 and 3. I think there will be a lot of offensive players in round 2 with 1st round grades and a lot of offensive players in round 3 that will have 2nd round grades on them. Trading back at least once but preferably twice to pick up a few extra picks in rounds 2 & 3 would be the best thing for this team even if it means taking a little less than the actual value. I'd drop out of the top 10 preferably in the middle of the round and take the best offensive lineman available no matter the position. But that's just my preference, I understand that people have different opinions.

If you like a guy at 10 you like him at 3 is also kind of a lame attitude. If you like a guy at 10 because he is your 3rd rated player, cool.  You don't take  a guy at 3 that you have rated 10th because you don't want a DT.  Maybe you go edge and pick Josh Allen, but you don't keep digging down to Garrett Bradbury, Jonah or Greedy Williams based on need,

[choon328]

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Well yeah, because there's 7 rounds and UDFA.  But that doesn't excuse reaching for somebody.  How do you know the DT we pass on won't be a future HOFer?  Would you be upset 15 years down the road because of the position he played?

Draft a guy who has the best shot at being elite at a position that matters.  Period. 

Who is to say which player will be elite? Scouting reports? Professional scouts are wrong constantly so I'm sure as hell not going to think you or any other amateur scout can pick and choose which rookies will be elite and which won't. My opinion is that the group of 3 that people keep spouting as the top tier all have negatives. None of them are clean prospects who deserve to be treated like sure fire great players. The difference between those 3 and the next 7-10 are negligible in my opinion.

The draft is subjective so they're really is no such thing as a reach. There are players on one teams board who may be their #5 overall guy and on another teams board he's #20. There is no universal scouting criteria that teams use and they certainly don't share a big board.

If the Jets have Jonah Williams as their 7th rated prospect and Quinnen Williams as their 1st-3rd rated prospect and would be comfortable taking Jonah at 7 I'm not sure why they wouldn't take him at 3. Just bc he was 4 spots away from there they had him ranked? I tend to think the Jets are still going to try to protect Sam next year and waiting for the 3rd round would be a huge mistake.

[choon328]

18 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

If you like a guy at 10 you like him at 3 is also kind of a lame attitude. If you like a guy at 10 because he is your 3rd rated player, cool.  You don't take  a guy at 3 that you have rated 10th because you don't want a DT.  Maybe you go edge and pick Josh Allen, but you don't keep digging down to Garrett Bradbury, Jonah or Greedy Williams based on need,

If the Jets think Jonah Williams or Taylor would be a very good-great 10 year starter at Tackle why wouldn't they take either of them at 3? They would have a much bigger impact on this teams and QB's success more than Quinnen.

Let's not act like it's the top 3 then everyone else has a 2nd round grade. The difference between the top 10-15 are slim and it's all based on team specific preference. There's a chance Quinnen won't be the first DT off the board yet if he's there at 3 the Jets have to take him? I've seen a mock draft recently where he falls to 9. I'm sorry but in my opinion he's not a generational can't miss talent and those are the only guys you should "have to take".

[choon328]

Also, most teams have the prospects broken down into tiers not numbered rankings. The tiers consist of prospects that are similarly ranked by the team. Tier 1 may have 6-8 players in it, Tier 2 may have 6 players and Tier 3 may have 15 guys and so forth.

Quinnen may be in Tier 1 for the Jets but so may Jonah or Taylor. So in that case you take the need based player if they're in the same tier. 

I know the Jets use this system bc Macc has spoken about it before. That's how teams know they can move down 5-6 picks, pick up an additional pick and still get a player in the same tier as they would have if they had not traded back. Numbered rankings are obsolete in today's NFL.

[#27TheDominator]

11 minutes ago, choon328 said:

If the Jets think Jonah Williams or Taylor would be a very good-great 10 year starter at Tackle why wouldn't they take either of them at 3? They would have a much bigger impact on this teams and QB's success more than Quinnen.

Let's not act like it's the top 3 then everyone else has a 2nd round grade. The difference between the top 10-15 are slim and it's all based on team specific preference. There's a chance Quinnen won't be the first DT off the board yet if he's there at 3 the Jets have to take him? I've seen a mock draft recently where he falls to 9. I'm sorry but in my opinion he's not a generational can't miss talent and those are the only guys you should "have to take".

I agree about Quinnen Williams, but not about how far I would drop.  I get your point about tiers, but if you are not going rank your top 3, why have a GM?  I don't have a problem with taking what you have as a marginally worse prospect for a need, but I disagree about how far apart these players are.  Me?  I am probably taking Oliver.

[Jetsfan80]

If Maccagnan has a G in his top 10, we’ve got problems.

 

If Macc is willing to reach for that G at 3, God help us.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If Maccagnan has a G in his top 10, we’ve got problems.

 

If Macc is willing to reach for that G at 3, God help us.

If he picks Lindstrom it will help me with my reach-fest in the JN mock!

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

8 hours ago, choon328 said:

If the Jets think Jonah Williams or Taylor would be a very good-great 10 year starter at Tackle why wouldn't they take either of them at 3? They would have a much bigger impact on this teams and QB's success more than Quinnen.

Let's not act like it's the top 3 then everyone else has a 2nd round grade. The difference between the top 10-15 are slim and it's all based on team specific preference. There's a chance Quinnen won't be the first DT off the board yet if he's there at 3 the Jets have to take him? I've seen a mock draft recently where he falls to 9. I'm sorry but in my opinion he's not a generational can't miss talent and those are the only guys you should "have to take".

C'mon Choon, I also saw that mock draft.  It was a joke.  Here's what accompanied that #9 pick where Quinnen Williams went to the Bills.   

9. BUFFALO BILLS
(6-10)	Quinnen Williams, DL, Alabama: There's no way Williams falls to the Bills, right? Either way, he's is a monster, dominating just about every snap during the 2018 season. And he came to the combine and dominated there too, blazing a 4.83 40-yard dash, which only confirms what we already knew: Williams' physical abilities are off the charts

 

The "author didn't even believe his own prediction.  There's more, from the "prognosticator", 

If you're keeping score, this is our 30th mock draft, dating back to last fall. It's also our very first three-round mock draft, which means you get an extra 38 picks! As has been the case for some time now, Kyler Murray remains the No. 1 selection, but he gets a downfield playmaker in the third round. In related news, seven quarterbacks go in the first three rounds, with the Patriots grabbing one -- along with two tight ends.

Alright, let's get to all 102 selections

 

I guess after 29 previous "Mock drafts" he had to do something to mix it up a little.  Also in this mock masterpiece, he has the two "Linebacking Devins" White and Bush, going back to back,  as choices #4 and #5 to the Raiders and Buccaneers respectively.  What do you think the chances of that happening are??  In this Quarterback light draft this "expert" has seven quarterbacks going in the first three rounds.  I would honestly have more confidence in your mock draft than this clown.

Last comment.  Which good/great starter at Tackle [although there is doubt about Jonah Williams playing there in the NFL] is of greater impact to their team than Aaron Donald, Warren Sapp, Cortez Kennedy, John Randle, Reggie White, or even Ndamukong Suh or Kyle Williams?  The answer is none.  Not even Willie Roaf, Tony Boselli, Gary Zimmerman, Tyron Smith or Art Shell.

[choon328]

5 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

C'mon Choon, I also saw that mock draft.  It was a joke.  Here's what accompanied that #9 pick where Quinnen Williams went to the Bills.   

9. BUFFALO BILLS
(6-10)	Quinnen Williams, DL, Alabama: There's no way Williams falls to the Bills, right? Either way, he's is a monster, dominating just about every snap during the 2018 season. And he came to the combine and dominated there too, blazing a 4.83 40-yard dash, which only confirms what we already knew: Williams' physical abilities are off the charts

 

The "author didn't even believe his own prediction.  There's more, from the "prognosticator", 

If you're keeping score, this is our 30th mock draft, dating back to last fall. It's also our very first three-round mock draft, which means you get an extra 38 picks! As has been the case for some time now, Kyler Murray remains the No. 1 selection, but he gets a downfield playmaker in the third round. In related news, seven quarterbacks go in the first three rounds, with the Patriots grabbing one -- along with two tight ends.

Alright, let's get to all 102 selections

 

I guess after 29 previous "Mock drafts" he had to do something to mix it up a little.  Also in this mock masterpiece, he has the two "Linebacking Devins" White and Bush, going back to back,  as choices #4 and #5 to the Raiders and Buccaneers respectively.  What do you think the chances of that happening are??  In this Quarterback light draft this "expert" has seven quarterbacks going in the first three rounds.  I would honestly have more confidence in your mock draft than this clown.

Last comment.  Which good/great starter at Tackle [although there is doubt about Jonah Williams playing there in the NFL] is of greater impact to their team than Aaron Donald, Warren Sapp, Cortez Kennedy, John Randle, Reggie White, or even Ndamukong Suh or Kyle Williams?  The answer is none.  Not even Willie Roaf, Tony Boselli, Gary Zimmerman, Tyron Smith or Art Shell.

The chances of Quinnen Williams being one of those DT's are not good. People keep suggesting he's a can't miss prospect and he's not. Leo was supposed to be a can't miss guy too. 

I would take a HOF LT over a HOF DT all day everyday.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, choon328 said:

The chances of Quinnen Williams being one of those DT's are not good. People keep suggesting he's a can't miss prospect and he's not. Leo was supposed to be a can't miss guy too. 

I would take a HOF LT over a HOF DT all day everyday. 

There's no HOF LT in this draft.  There's a few nice RT's and G's and that's about it.

And Quinnen Williams in no way compares to Leonard Williams.  Leonard Williams is a below average athlete for his position.  Quinnen Williams is in the 83rd percentile compared to other NFL DT's.

[choon328]

24 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

There's no HOF LT in this draft.  There's a few nice RT's and G's and that's about it.

And Quinnen Williams in no way compares to Leonard Williams.  Leonard Williams is a below average athlete for his position.  Quinnen Williams is in the 83rd percentile compared to other NFL DT's.

The suggestion that you, me or anyone else knows that certain players will be great, good or bad is laughable. There is not one player in this draft that anyone can be confident will be a great player. There are too many variables that have to go right for that to happen to predict that with any level of confidence. 

And coming out of college Leonard Williams was just as hyped as Quinnen and was not thought of as a below average athlete. Quite the opposite. He became less athletic bc he hasn't been a hard worker in the NFL. That's just one of the variables it takes to become a great player and he hasn't lived up to that.

Also, my HOF comment was in response to someone saying they'd rather have Warren Sapp over Tony Bosseli.

[CTM]

16 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Did I inadvertently pee in your eye recently? 

If you had he'd probably be a lot less surly

[CTM]

19 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I wouldn't compare top prospects to much lower ranked ones based on it, but it seems it's probably useful comparing similarly ranked players, whether way up top or all the way down to the lower rounds, choosing one among a handful of project types. 

But to his point, you should be well past it "seems" and "probably" useful for comparing similar ranked players

[Jetsfan80]

57 minutes ago, choon328 said:

The suggestion that you, me or anyone else knows that certain players will be great, good or bad is laughable. There is not one player in this draft that anyone can be confident will be a great player. There are too many variables that have to go right for that to happen to predict that with any level of confidence. 

And coming out of college Leonard Williams was just as hyped as Quinnen and was not thought of as a below average athlete. Quite the opposite. He became less athletic bc he hasn't been a hard worker in the NFL. That's just one of the variables it takes to become a great player and he hasn't lived up to that.

Also, my HOF comment was in response to someone saying they'd rather have Warren Sapp over Tony Bosseli.

 

I can say with high confidence that there are no franchise LT's in this draft.  I can say that definitively, because history suggests its very hard to find those guys outside of the top of the draft, and the 2 who are at the top (Jonah Williams, Jawaan Taylor) have significant flaws. 

There's at least a chance that there's an elite pass rusher in this draft.  Even at DT. 

And yes, Leonard was hyped up by the scouts.  But the numbers always showed he was below average in athleticism, and always would be.  Has nothing to do with work ethic there.

[Sperm Edwards]

47 minutes ago, CTM said:

But to his point, you should be well past it "seems" and "probably" useful for comparing similar ranked players

It seems like you're probably right.

[choon328]

26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I can say with high confidence that there are no franchise LT's in this draft.  I can say that definitively, because history suggests its very hard to find those guys outside of the top of the draft, and the 2 who are at the top (Jonah Williams, Jawaan Taylor) have significant flaws. 

There's at least a chance that there's an elite pass rusher in this draft.  Even at DT. 

And yes, Leonard was hyped up by the scouts.  But the numbers always showed he was below average in athleticism, and always would be.  Has nothing to do with work ethic there.

But what does high confidence from you mean? No offense, but it means nothing to me and shouldn't and doesn't sway opinion one way or the other. It's just as likely that your opinion is incorrect as it is correct. You're saying things like, "there are no franchise LT's in this draft". How do you know? Professional scouts get this wrong constantly yet I'm supposed to believe that you know for sure the skill level of each player and what their ceilings are as a player?

I just wish people would state that these are their opinions and stop trying to sell them as fact like they can predict the future. Like I said earlier, you, me and the rest of these nutjobs are amateurs and no better than the scouts in the NFL. And the scouts get it wrong way more than they get it right.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, choon328 said:

But what does high confidence from you mean? No offense, but it means nothing to me and shouldn't and doesn't sway opinion one way or the other. It's just as likely that your opinion is incorrect as it is correct. You're dating things like, "there are no franchise LT's in this draft". How do you know? Professional scouts get this wrong constantly looking yet I'm supposed to believe that you know for sure the skill level of each player and what their ceilings areas a player. 

I just wish people would state that these are their opinions and stop trying to sell them as fact like they can predict the future. Like I said earlier, you, me and the rest of these nutjobs are amateurs and no better than the scouts in the NFL. And the scouts get it wrong way more than they get it right. 

 

Jonah Williams has short arms and has issues with speed rushers.  That's what makes him a better fit at RT or G.

Jawaan Taylor's strengths are almost exclusively in run blocking, and all of his weaknesses are in pass-blocking.  He has RT written all over him.

LT's rarely work out, and most who can't cut it there get converted to RT or G.  This isn't new or surprising information.

Meanwhile, the pass-rushers in this draft, including Ed Oliver and Quinnen Williams, at least have a CHANCE of having their skillsets translate at an elite level in this league.  Oliver's SPARQ scores are similar to Aaron Donald's coming out.   I'd much rather roll the dice on that kind of potential at a premium position than end up with a really good G or RT.

Sure, this is based on opinion.  But its based on history and things that can be quantified.  It's based on what is most LIKELY to happen given the information we have.  All you're saying is you don't want a DT because we've drafted DT's before and it didn't work.  That's silly logic. 

[greenwave81]

13 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If Maccagnan has a G in his top 10, we’ve got problems.

 

If Macc is willing to reach for that G at 3, God help us.

So....if Quenton Nelson OG, the guy the Colts drafted last year at 6 was available in this draft you wouldn’t take him at 3?  Some called him a ‘reach’ last year...think the Colts now care?

[choon328]

24 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Jonah Williams has short arms and has issues with speed rushers.  That's what makes him a better fit at RT or G.

Jawaan Taylor's strengths are almost exclusively in run blocking, and all of his weaknesses are in pass-blocking.  He has RT written all over him.

LT's rarely work out, and most who can't cut it there get converted to RT or G.  This isn't new or surprising information.

Meanwhile, the pass-rushers in this draft, including Ed Oliver and Quinnen Williams, at least have a CHANCE of having their skillsets translate at an elite level in this league.  Oliver's SPARQ scores are similar to Aaron Donald's coming out.   I'd much rather roll the dice on that kind of potential at a premium position than end up with a really good G or RT.

Sure, this is based on opinion.  But its based on history and things that can be quantified.  It's based on what is most LIKELY to happen given the information we have.  All you're saying is you don't want a DT because we've drafted DT's before and it didn't work.  That's silly logic. 

**** a SPARQ score. Having a ton of athleticism doesn't mean you'll be a good player and vice versa. There are so many more things that can't be quantified that go into becoming a great player that using athleticism as your main factor is not credible. There are so many examples of HOF players that would've had terrible SPARQ scores. The one who comes to mind right away is Jerry Rice.

Also, a good scouting report doesn't mean that these players are "likely" to become elite. It's more likely that they won't based on decades of drafts.

[choon328]

14 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

So....if Quenton Nelson OG, the guy the Colts drafted last year at 6 was available in this draft you wouldn’t take him at 3?  Some called him a ‘reach’ last year...think the Colts now care?

I'd take him all day every day.

[Jetsfan80]

19 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

So....if Quenton Nelson OG, the guy the Colts drafted last year at 6 was available in this draft you wouldn’t take him at 3?  Some called him a ‘reach’ last year...think the Colts now care?

No, I would not take a Guard at 3.  Ever.  Quenton Nelson only looks like a great pick for the Colts because they've been doing a great job of building their roster as a whole. 

In addition to Luck being healthy and looking great, the Colts had the # 8 defense in the league per Football Outsiders, and they already had a solid LT in Anthony Costanzo (# 14 T in the league last year, per PFF), C in Ryan Kelly (# 11) and RG in Mark Glowinski (# 17).  Nelson was a luxury pick for an already really good team.

We're not in that category.  And there's no such thing as a "Franchise Guard".  Only "Franchise LT". 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, choon328 said:

**** a SPARQ score. Having a ton of athleticism doesn't mean you'll be a good player and vice versa. There are so many more things that can't be quantified that go into becoming a great player that using athleticism as your main factor is not credible. There are so many examples of HOF players that would've had terrible SPARQ scores. The one who comes to mind right away is Jerry Rice.

Also, a good scouting report doesn't mean that these players are "likely" to become elite. It's more likely that they won't based on decades of drafts.

Cool, so you just base your opinions on how you feel, and I use tangible numbers, and you sh*t all over it. 

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I'd take him all day every day.

Of course you would....

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, choon328 said:

The suggestion that you, me or anyone else knows that certain players will be great, good or bad is laughable. There is not one player in this draft that anyone can be confident will be a great player. There are too many variables that have to go right for that to happen to predict that with any level of confidence. 

And coming out of college Leonard Williams was just as hyped as Quinnen and was not thought of as a below average athlete. Quite the opposite. He became less athletic bc he hasn't been a hard worker in the NFL. That's just one of the variables it takes to become a great player and he hasn't lived up to that.

Also, my HOF comment was in response to someone saying they'd rather have Warren Sapp over Tony Bosseli.

That is funny because SPARQ and many of us thought the was a below average athlete.  60% of NFL D linemen are better athletes.  We also thought he was can't miss.  That's just it.  He had a high floor.  He didn't miss.  It still didn't move the needle on this team. 

[CTM]

7 minutes ago, choon328 said:

**** a SPARQ score. Having a ton of athleticism doesn't mean you'll be a good player and vice versa.

This has been explained atleast 10x in thread.

[bitonti]

37 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Meanwhile, the pass-rushers in this draft, including Ed Oliver and Quinnen Williams, at least have a CHANCE of having their skillsets translate at an elite level in this league.  Oliver's SPARQ scores are similar to Aaron Donald's coming out.   I'd much rather roll the dice on that kind of potential at a premium position than end up with a really good G or RT. 

 

Choosing between Quinnen Williams and Ed Oliver is like choosing between Aaron Donald and Gerald McCoy. They are both potential Pro Bowlers right away 

assuming Josh Allen is gone, there's a big difference between the top DT tier and the Brian Burns and Montez Sweats of the world. Maybe I'm wrong it's happened before 

[choon328]

41 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Cool, so you just base your opinions on how you feel, and I use tangible numbers, and you sh*t all over it. 

I never made a declaration that I know which player is going to be great. Scouting reports and combine numbers have been proven wrong time and time again so I don't think that's the end all be all to determine future success in the NFL. And I'm not going to pretend to know which players will be good. All I know is that we have a QB that needs help and drafting any defensive player at 3 is a mistake. Whether they turn out to be great or not the sole focus should  be to help the QB. Great QB's win Championships, great defense win 9-10 games and lose in the playoffs. We've been down that road before.

[Ohhthepain]

[Jetsfan80]

29 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I never made a declaration that I know which player is going to be great. Scouting reports and combine numbers have been proven wrong time and time again so I don't think that's the end all be all to determine future success in the NFL. And I'm not going to pretend to know which players will be good. All I know is that we have a QB that needs help and drafting any defensive player at 3 is a mistake. Whether they turn out to be great or not the sole focus should  be to help the QB. Great QB's win Championships, great defense win 9-10 games and lose in the playoffs. We've been down that road before. 

Except that all the best teams in the NFL, which all have their QB's already, don't hesitate to pull the trigger on drafting a defensive player in the 1st round.  Granted, those teams tend to have later 1st round picks, but the simple truth is evident that the best teams are ALWAYS looking for pass rushers, and tend to collect as many as they can. 

Darnold does need help, but drafting a substandard offensive talent at 3 just to do it would be a massive mistake.  Almost like drafting Sammy Watkins over Khalil Mack or Aaron Donald (which is exactly what the Bills did in the 2014 draft). 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Choosing between Quinnen Williams and Ed Oliver is like choosing between Aaron Donald and Gerald McCoy. They are both potential Pro Bowlers right away 

assuming Josh Allen is gone, there's a big difference between the top DT tier and the Brian Burns and Montez Sweats of the world. Maybe I'm wrong it's happened before 

How much of a difference is there between Josh Allen and Brian Burns or Montez Sweat?

[choon328]

30 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Except that all the best teams in the NFL, which all have their QB's already, don't hesitate to pull the trigger on drafting a defensive player in the 1st round.  Granted, those teams tend to have later 1st round picks, but the simple truth is evident that the best teams are ALWAYS looking for pass rushers, and tend to collect as many as they can. 

Darnold does need help, but drafting a substandard offensive talent at 3 just to do it would be a massive mistake.  Almost like drafting Sammy Watkins over Khalil Mack or Aaron Donald (which is exactly what the Bills did in the 2014 draft). 

So now we're using the Bills as an example? Why not use the Falcons as an example when they traded way up for Julio Jones ahead of JJ Watt? Do you think they regret that decision? Does that not fit your narrative?

I don't want to draft anybody at 3. My preference would be to trade down to acquire extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd round. This team needs a lot of help. They're not one defensive player away from winning anything.

Those good teams with established QB's can afford to draft a pass rusher bc they have the established franchise QB with adequate support around him on offense. A great QB makes everybody on offense look good. The Jets don't have either of those things. They have a young QB with promise, no starting Center, a very good LG, average LT, RG & RT. 4 of those 5 positions can be upgraded immediately.

It would be more impactful for the future of this organization and QB to trade the 3rd pick, slide back 5-8 spots and then draft heavily on offensive lineman in the first 3 rounds. It is the weakest part of this team and needs to upgraded ASAP.