playtowinthegame Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 20 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: Of course Rosen’s value coming off of last season is going to be less than what he was drafted at. Arizona had a miserable season and Rosen got caught up in that. I agree Josh Rosen did get caught up in that horrific 2018 season, but he was pretty much similar to Jared Goff his first year in the league.The coaching and offensive line last season are the real culprits for Rosen's struggles during his rookie season, not Rosen's talent and/or work ethic. 20 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: You also have the fact that everyone and their mother knows Arizona is taking Murray, so it’s not like Arizona is operating from a position of strength here. Not true at all. You're just regurgitating what wannabe drafnik lemmings are saying. Steve Keim and the Cardinals have complete control over the media leading up to the draft this coming Thursday. The Cardinals have the first overall pick in this draft in their control, hence they're operating from a position of strength. They're trying to drum up a huge offer for the first overall pick, or they're going to select Bosa or Willaims. Bottom line I guarantee you Josh Rosen will be the Cardinals starting quarterback in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 31 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: Somehow I see the Redskins landing Rosen. That could be, depends what happens with Haskins. I could see them making a move for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 26 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: Of course Rosen’s value coming off of last season is going to be less than what he was drafted at. Arizona had a miserable season and Rosen got caught up in that. You also have the fact that everyone and their mother knows Arizona is taking Murray, so it’s not like Arizona is operating from a position of strength here. I would expect to see Rosen moved during the draft after Haskins comes off the board. Doubtful that Arizona will get a first but maybe a team will give up a 2nd and 4th for him. Or they could keep him until camp/trade deadline in case of an injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, section314 said: Or they could keep him until camp/trade deadline in case of an injury. Always possible. But do they really want to carry both on the roster for any prolonged period of time? That could be a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaton Beaver Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 On 4/11/2019 at 8:26 PM, cant wait said: he did pretty well considering the beating he took behind the awful AZ OL last season. not to mention they had the worst OC in the league with mike mccoy... you know it’s bad when they couldn’t run the ball with david johnson at RB Don't you mean 2nd worse OC ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said: Not true at all. You're just regurgitating what wannabe drafnik lemmings are saying. Steve Keim and the Cardinals have complete control over the media leading up to the draft this coming Thursday. The Cardinals have the first overall pick in this draft in their control, hence they're operating from a position of strength. They're trying to drum up a huge offer for the first overall pick, or they're going to select Bosa or Willaims. Bottom line I guarantee you Josh Rosen will be the Cardinals starting quarterback in 2019. First of all, let me just say that I appreciate you sticking with your narrative that Arizona isn't taking Murray. It makes for good reading. You'll have plenty of bragging rights if you're proven right. But I don't get how, from Arizona's PoV, they're increasing the value of the #1 pick by pretending to want Murray. I see how they're elevating Murray's value, but not the value for the pick. If a trade is their goal, they're not in a position of strength at all. Much like when the Jets had the #1 in back-to-back years where the consensus #1 one year was a LT and the other there was no consensus and it became Keyshawn. I'd think that if they really wanted to trade the pick, they'd be pumping Bosa/Allen/Williams -just like the NFL media- in hopes of scaring someone in love with one of them to trade up. By suggesting that they're taking the QB, they're telegraphing that the cream of this year's class could drop a pick - lessening their pick's trade value, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtowinthegame Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 1 minute ago, slats said: I'd think that if they really wanted to trade the pick, they'd be pumping Bosa/Allen/Williams -just like the NFL media- in hopes of scaring someone in love with one of them to trade up. Slats, you should know teams are more likely to trade up for the first overall pick when it's for a quarterback than any other position. I believe the Cardinals faux interest in Kyler Murray was/is purrely driven by their goal of getting a huge haul of draft picks back from a team that believes Kyler Murray can be a franchise quarterback. A lot of the media has been played during what is known as lying season leading up to the draft. I believe Rosen has been coached up on what to say as well. The Cardinals smoke machine took it a step further recently releasing two "hype videos" for the upcoming season: one without Rosen, and then a day later one with Rosen to keep people guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said: Slats, you should know teams are more likely to trade up for the first overall pick when it's for a quarterback than any other position. I believe the Cardinals faux interest in Kyler Murray was/is purrely driven by their goal of getting a huge haul of draft picks back from a team that believes Kyler Murray can be a franchise quarterback. A lot of the media has been played during what is known as lying season leading up to the draft. I believe Rosen has been coached up on what to say as well. The Cardinals smoke machine took it a step further recently releasing two "hype videos" for the upcoming season: one without Rosen, and then a day later one with Rosen to keep people guessing. Sure, a consensus #1 overall pick type QB is gonna drive the market, but Murray isn't even the consensus #1 QB in what's seen as a weak class. If their goal is to increase his value to increase their pick's value, I don't think it's working. You have articles talking about how if the Cards don't take Murray, he might drop out of the first round, entirely. That's probably hyperbole, too, but it's hard to find his landing spot if he doesn't go #1. Raiders? Giants? We're talking about a one-year wonder, 5'10" (maybe), 1000-yard rushing QB here. He's not going to be every team's cup of tea. A team is going to have to commit to a very unconventional QB and system with him. And it starts getting a little conspiracy-theory-ish when you talk about Rosen being coached on what to say. He's getting his reputation trashed in this process. Hard to believe he's a part of it. And what does he say after the Cards take Bosa? April Fools!? We're less than a week out, so we'll see soon enough. I still say that feigning interest in Murray does nothing for the trade value of the #1 pick and may, in fact, hurt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 3 hours ago, sec101row23 said: Of course Rosen’s value coming off of last season is going to be less than what he was drafted at. Arizona had a miserable season and Rosen got caught up in that. You also have the fact that everyone and their mother knows Arizona is taking Murray, so it’s not like Arizona is operating from a position of strength here. I would expect to see Rosen moved during the draft after Haskins comes off the board. Doubtful that Arizona will get a first but maybe a team will give up a 2nd and 4th for him. It’s unfair to dismiss Rosen after just one year when he was playing behind by far the nfl’s worst offensive line Everyone on espn now is saying giants are drafting Haskins. Could be negotiations, could be stupidity If the giants draft Haskins they might as well trade Eli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Whoever trades fro rosen if anyone is going to get a huge bargain if they are talking 3rd rounders. A good prospect with a full year of experience under his belt for a 3rd rounder. Hell even a 2nd rounder would be great value for a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Take this for what it's worth, but a friend who has had Giant tix forever was out last night with some upper level Giant people and he bought up Haskins. The response "right conference, wrong team." Nothing about when in draft, but found it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said: Arizona seems like a train wreck organization. How do you absolutely kill your leverage by everyone and their mother knowing by the combine that they are taking Murray? I’m not looking to argue, but you’re not being fair here. How exactly does what you said make any sense? Once Arizona hired Kingsbury as their HC, everyone just assumed he would take Murray as a “fit” in his system. Arizona has never said any such thing. Here we are a week away from the draft and nobody has a clue what Arizona is actually going to do. “Everybody and their mother” haven’t known Jack since the combine. Same way all these same people around here “know” Rosen stinks and Allen can’t throw a football, yet they’ve seen enough to know Darnold will be a dominant FQB for the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, 14 in Green said: I’m not looking to argue, but you’re not being fair here. How exactly does what you said make any sense? Once Arizona hired Kingsbury as their HC, everyone just assumed he would take Murray as a “fit” in his system. Arizona has never said any such thing. Here we are a week away from the draft and nobody has a clue what Arizona is actually going to do. “Everybody and their mother” haven’t known Jack since the combine. Same way all these same people around here “know” Rosen stinks and Allen can’t throw a football, yet they’ve seen enough to know Darnold will be a dominant FQB for the Jets. You know better than to argue with this logic.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelenOfTroy Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Not a one of you know anything....unless you’re an owner/manager/coach in the know, who is or isn’t taking which player. That’s why there will always be big surprises in the draft. Also, none of you know who will pan out, who will fail. Great rookie seasons (especially QBs) have shown, with few exceptions, that it is no indication who will go on to have a long and successful career. It’s all guessing and fluff right now, there is no one in any FO, scouts or anyone paid to break down these players and guess the success of a player have less than a 50/50 chance of being right. If odds were higher, the guys would be in high demand making billions. This is all fluff and posturing on these message boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcJet Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Rosen stinks. As a Jets fan, I know stink when I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcJet Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Rosen plays just like Sanchez - when the first read isn't there, he panics and does dumb sh*t. For those of you blaming his line play, do you really want a QB that needs perfect line play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choon328 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 5 hours ago, T0mShane said: Tom Brady just beat Phillip Rivers and Patrick Mahomes to get to the Super Bowl. Jared Goff beat Drew Brees, who beat Nick Foles and Dak Prescott to get to the Super Bowl. The only guy among that group to crack a 4.8/40 was Dak Prescott at 4.79. Nobody good runs anymore. It's not about speed. It's about pocket awareness and being able to escape pressure. Those are two things Rosen is terrible at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 You'd think if AZ had made up their mind to draft Murray they'd trade Rosen before the draft. Since Rosen's value would be lower because the entire league knows they have to trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtowinthegame Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 One of the scenarios I've seen that would shake up the draft, is the Raiders trading up with the Cardinals to draft Kyler Murray. Cardinals would get back the Raiders 4th and 27th picks. Perhaps Gruden and Mayock sending their scouts home was was done in an effort to keep a tight lid on things while they try and work a trade out with the Cardinals for the first overall pick, and if it doesn't work out they can deny it ever happened, while talking up Derek Carr as their franchise quarterback. Should the Raiders pull off a trade for Murray, then Derek Carr is the next trade the Raiders make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 On 4/19/2019 at 7:27 AM, joewilly12 said: Somehow I see the Redskins landing Rosen. That would be a very nice match imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Rangers9 said: You'd think if AZ had made up their mind to draft Murray they'd trade Rosen before the draft. Since Rosen's value would be lower because the entire league knows they have to trade him. They already know they are going to trade him. Teams just aren’t willing to meet Arizona’s asking price. I’m sure they know by now that they’ll have to accept less, so might as well wait it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 On 4/19/2019 at 11:57 AM, slats said: First of all, let me just say that I appreciate you sticking with your narrative This is slats-speak for “bless your heart.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: They already know they are going to trade him. Teams just aren’t willing to meet Arizona’s asking price. I’m sure they know by now that they’ll have to accept less, so might as well wait it out. It’s the only card they have left, really. Wait and call the Redskins’ or Giants’ bluff on draft day when those teams are staring at Daniel Jones and Drew Lock on the board. Worst case scenario, they draft Murray, the Giants wait them out, then trade Rosen to them for the #37 and everybody wins unless Gettleman porks the Giants by reaching for a QB at 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, T0mShane said: It’s the only card they have left, really. Wait and call the Redskins’ or Giants’ bluff on draft day when those teams are staring at Daniel Jones and Drew Lock on the board. Worst case scenario, they draft Murray, the Giants wait them out, then trade Rosen to them for the #37 and everybody wins unless Gettleman porks the Giants by reaching for a QB at 17. Agreed. They aren’t getting first round value, and the QB needy teams aren’t trading for him until they see how the draft unfolds and maybe the guy they really like falls to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 1 minute ago, sec101row23 said: Agreed. They aren’t getting first round value, and the QB needy teams aren’t trading for him until they see how the draft unfolds and maybe the guy they really like falls to them. Someone will panic and reach for Rosen as the draft plays out and QB's are selected off the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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