Is Leonard Williams worth a 3rd and 4th round draft pick?

[Jetsfan80]

The Giants are now forced to make the following decision:

• Option A:  Re-sign Leonard Williams for $14-15M per season, and hand us a high 2020 4th round pick in the process (on top of the early 3rd they gave us already).  Not a great choice for a team that is going nowhere and has a lot more needs than an interior DL who isn't an elite pass rusher.

 

• Option B:  Let Leo walk and hope some team overpays him so they get a 4th or 5th round compensatory pick in 2021, while still handing us a high 2020 5th rounder.  And they would only get a compensatory selection if they avoid signing UFA's this offseason (given how many needs they have, I imagine they'll be somewhat busy in free agency).  Meaning they just gave up two mid-round picks for a half season rental DT for a team that has no shot at making the playoffs, and might end up getting nothing to show for it.  

 

Rock vs. Hard Place for Gettleman.  

[Sperm Edwards]

It was an idiotic trade for the Giants, no matter how this ends. Even if they ink him to a team-friendly deal, by some miracle, it's still dumb since he's not giving them or anyone else that much of a discount. 

Only thing that sucks is we didn't trade him sooner, when his value was higher. But we just had to see how his career was going to totally turn around with Gregg Williams coaching him or something. 

He's a pretty good player, despite the understandable bitterness here, but he's not worth coughing up picks (including upcoming pick #65-70 overall) for the privilege of being first in line to pay him a FA contract. He's decent against the run, and he can beat his man here & there, but he doesn't have the closing speed to seal the deal when he does, so his pressures are just on paper (they aren't really high-pressure pressures that force QBs into poor throws). 

Crazy how this was one of Maccagnan's big draft "hits" and he only cost the 6th pick in the whole draft. 

[Jets723]

This turned out to be a great trade.  That 3rd rounder is gonna be very high because the giants will be either 3-13 or 4-12.  Even if they don’t resign Leo(they said they will) but if they don’t getting an extra 5th rounder is not bad

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It was an idiotic trade for the Giants, no matter how this ends. Even if they ink him to a team-friendly deal, by some miracle, it's still dumb since he's not giving them or anyone else that much of a discount. 

Only thing that sucks is we didn't trade him sooner, when his value was higher. But we just had to see how his career was going to totally turn around with Gregg Williams coaching him or something. 

He's a pretty good player, despite the understandable bitterness here, but he's not worth coughing up picks (including upcoming pick #65-70 overall) for the privilege of being first in line to pay him a FA contract. He's decent against the run, and he can beat his man here & there, but he doesn't have the closing speed to seal the deal when he does, so his pressures are just on paper (they aren't really high-pressure pressures that force QBs into poor throws). 

Crazy how this was one of Maccagnan's big draft "hits" and he only cost the 6th pick in the whole draft. 

mccagnan was never going to trade him so trading him sooner was not an option.  guys like him who aren't athletic enough to get sacks but can get pressures are essentially jags who can be replaced with guys the jets replaced him with.  the jets got an early 3rd round pick for a guy they weren't going to resign, and the net FA comp pick formula probably would not have netted them anything close to this.  a great trade for the jets.

[TNJet]

19 hours ago, southtown24th said:

lenny williams is the ghost that sammy boy was seeing.

I thought it was the Ghost of Browning Nagle's past?

[Sperm Edwards]

19 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

mccagnan was never going to trade him so trading him sooner was not an option.  guys like him who aren't athletic enough to get sacks but can get pressures are essentially jags who can be replaced with guys the jets replaced him with.  the jets got an early 3rd round pick for a guy they weren't going to resign, and the net FA comp pick formula probably would not have netted them anything close to this.  a great trade for the jets.

I don't know about that. If Maccagnan was so dead-set on extending him he could have done it already. Then drafting QW put the value of doing that into doubt anyhow. Sooner was further an option as soon as Maccagnan was fired (or at least as soon as Douglas was hired). Gase traded away Darron Lee before JD was hired (and got so little in return he should have just kept him; it only makes it worse that perhaps Williamson doesn't wreck his knee if Lee could have instead been on the field with the puppies in PS. 

Leonard Williams had more value for a team looking to get him for this entire season, including all of the preseason and pre-preseason, which also meant they'd have that much more time to assess any extensions. Plus there's the whole "he never got to play under Gregg Williams [and then next to QW]" that some bought into, which netted nothing better and that arguably hurt his value as well.

I'm not unhappy with getting the most we could before the deadline. Just that we could and should have gotten more if we'd struck while the iron was hotter. 

[isired]

we could and should have gotten more if we'd struck while the iron was hotter. 

You're logic is sound, but I think that thankfully the Giants paid the 'more' - I mean how much do you think we would have gotten if we'd traded him in the offseason, or even last season?

As much as I think Jets fans' opinion of Leo is hurt more by where he was drafted than by his solid-not-spectacular play, there's no big shortage in the league of DTs of his demonstrated ability.

[section314]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't know about that. If Maccagnan was so dead-set on extending him he could have done it already. Then drafting QW put the value of doing that into doubt anyhow. Sooner was further an option as soon as Maccagnan was fired (or at least as soon as Douglas was hired). Gase traded away Darron Lee before JD was hired (and got so little in return he should have just kept him; it only makes it worse that perhaps Williamson doesn't wreck his knee if Lee could have instead been on the field with the puppies in PS. 

Leonard Williams had more value for a team looking to get him for this entire season, including all of the preseason and pre-preseason, which also meant they'd have that much more time to assess any extensions. Plus there's the whole "he never got to play under Gregg Williams [and then next to QW]" that some bought into, which netted nothing better and that arguably hurt his value as well.

I'm not unhappy with getting the most we could before the deadline. Just that we could and should have gotten more if we'd struck while the iron was hotter. 

Sperm...I think Douglas maximized his return here. The league watches tape constantly.They know Leonard Williams is a non impactful player. I have no idea what Gettleman sees in him, but who cares?

[DMan77]

Honestly I don't think I'd be upset if Leo was out there racking up 3 sacks a game for the Giants...

He wasn't doing it here and the Jets need an entire roster worth of players... They need those picks. They're more valuable (if used right, of course) than Leo would be for half a season.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

15 minutes ago, isired said:

 

You're logic is sound, but I think that thankfully the Giants paid the 'more' - I mean how much do you think we would have gotten if we'd traded him in the offseason, or even last season?

As much as I think Jets fans' opinion of Leo is hurt more by where he was drafted than by his solid-not-spectacular play, there's no big shortage in the league of DTs of his demonstrated ability.

I think he could have netted a round higher. My reason for believing so is he had the built in excuse of playing for a just-fired coach, was a recent ultra-high draft pick and pro bowler. Heading into this season an acquiring team had him locked in for 1 year at $14MM but could have spread that a future amount over an extra year if they really wanted to. It just leaves a team with more options. 

Those would have been even greater before the draft - which I'm not blaming Douglas for since he wasn't here - but yeah a team desperate for a Williams-fit player could have bypassed signing someone else and/or saved their high draft pick for another position. 

But in the middle of this year? How many teams are looking for high-dollar players midseason. Most of the ones with lousy records (like the Giants) aren't shopping next year's picks for expiring-contract players in 2019. 

 

13 minutes ago, section314 said:

Sperm...I think Douglas maximized his return here. The league watches tape constantly.They know Leonard Williams is a non impactful player. I have no idea what Gettleman sees in him, but who cares?

Well obviously we'll never know but I doubt this is true (other than Douglas maximizing his value at the time he was first put on the market for bidding in October).

I don't think the league thinks Leo's reputation is as low as disgruntled Jets fans think it is. On the contrary I think it's higher (and was higher still before mid-October of 2019). He shows up well in a bunch of areas - including not just run D, but also QB pressures that will help a team with some pass rush opposite him, but not so much for us who don't like the Jets - and yes he was also getting about a handful of sacks himself each year. By the time we put him on the trade block he had literally zero sacks, and it was clear the Jets had no interest in extending him. 

No way I believe his trade value in mid-late October 2019 (arguably his worst NFL season) is as high as his trade value was at any time since this past spring. 

[isired]

Dee Ford went for a 2nd round pick. I don't think Leo as-is was ever getting us a 2.

[Big_Slick]

Gettleman signs Leo to a long term deal, otherwise he'd end up looking foolish giving a 3rd and 5th for a half a season of Leo. Great for the Jets as it turns that 5th into a 4th and it's looking like both those picks will be high in their respective rounds.