Is Leonard Williams worth a 3rd and 4th round draft pick?

[Ghost420]

37 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Not sure what game the OP watched but the Giants were in Sam's face and in the Jets backfield the whole game. As he did many times her, Leo put pressure on the QB but just never got to him, but he was a force.

Getting pressure vs jets oline is not impressive 

[GreenFish]

He’s worth a 3rd and a 4th. He’s a good player. However, it was a great trade for us. It’s an ok trade for the Giants. That can change based on his much they sign him for. If he gets say a $10m per year deal, than it’s a win win. If gets 14m, than it’s questionable on the Giants front. 
 

I don’t think the Giants are regretting the trade. He’s playing like Leo which is what they should have expected. Very good against the run and ok with almost sacks against the pass.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It sucks. He was worth more before the season started, and once QW was drafted we should have moved him before that first round was over. Instead we did the Maccagnan special of giving his HC a DL with must-start players of 3 DTs and a NT. Actually 4 DTs and a NT if they count the one he'd just drafted the year before. F***ing idiot. 

No NOT an Idiot, because he KNOWS he is an Idiot.  Every 1st Rd pick Maccagnan made was to protect his own job, not better the team.

If Punters were BPA all 5 years that ownership incredibly gave Maccagnan to draft...the Jets would have 5 Punters on their Roster.

[Ken Schroy]

Leo is not an impact player or even a difference maker. We robbed them.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Actually the results wouldn’t have been as stellar IF Leonard Williams suited up for the Jets today.  How are you going to do better than 13 carries 1 yard?

When that RB is Barkley? You don't do any better than that. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

58 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Douglas’ best move so far. He has to do something with those picks though. 

Underated trade. Really happy with it. Starting to get rid of these port draft picks... couldnt be happier with the picks. That's literally tow starting linemen next year.

[isired]

Hands down the worst part is the Giants NOW have to part with about $15Mill a year for him, when you can get what he does in the 4th Rd

Sure, but it would take 3 or 4 fourth round picks to find him.

I'm glad we traded Leo, and honestly a 3 alone would have been good for me, the fact we get a 4 or 5 from the Giants makes it all the sweeter. But that has more to do with his contract situation than his play.

Sure, he isn't anywhere near the factor you want where he was drafted. But that pick is gone, can't get it back, so you have to evaluate the guy honestly. He'll be a starting DT that's stout against the run and can collapse the pocket for another 5-6 years at least. You'd be ecstatic to get a 10 year starter in the 4th. I'm sure a team that didnt blow a high 1 on him will be very happy with him.

[RobR]

11 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Hands down the worst part is the Giants NOW have to part with about $15Mill a year for him, when you can get what he does in the 4th Rd

Absolutely no one is paying Leo $15 mil a year with term, not even the Giants. He'll end up getting a one year prove it deal for around $12 mil.  

If we didn't sign one free agent he might have garnered us a 7th rounder as a comp pick.

[sourceworx]

Leo is "almost" really good. A third and fourth for him is highway robbery. Kudos to Joe D for getting the most in a trade for a guy who provides little value.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

2 minutes ago, RobR said:

Absolutely no one is paying Leo $15 mil a year with term, not even the Giants. He'll end up getting a one year prove it deal for around $12 mil.  

If we didn't sign one free agent he might have garnered us a 7th rounder as a comp pick.

You’re right.  I didn’t clearly state my point, which is I’m ecstatic he’s off the team because I don’t want his double digit million cap charge anytime any place, whether 10, 12,15.

The 3 from the Giants will almost be like a low 2, and then there is even a 4 if they re-sign him.

Hitting either pick would be pure gravy.

Trade was a heist and makes zero sense to me looking from the Giants’ side.

[Joejet]

Three tackles, one solo.  Is he worth a 3rd and 5th (4th)?  Thank god he was to the Giants!

[IndianaJet]

Leo is a good football player

He would be great if he was playing horseshoes or if he was throwing hand-grenades. 

[RonaldJet]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No he isn't, but the reason we traded him is Shepherd isn't months away from commanding a $15-18MM/year contract to keep him. 

It's not Leo vs 3rd/4th. It's Leo vs 3rd/4th PLUS the $15MM/year FA who'll take his place.

No brainer to trade Leo (which was overdue, and we surely could have gotten more in return if our prior GM was proactive on this instead of looking to keep him).

Frankly it's looking like a bad move to hang onto Anderson as well. I can at least understand that, as the team still believes in Darnold and the rationale is another half-year of Darnold added development with this extra target will pay Darnold-dividends beyond this lost season. But keeping him is not looking like a great move so far, assuming we still end up letting him go because we want to upgrade and not maintain status quo at WR, if they think they'll still keep Enunwa after he's healed up since his cost is much lower. Don't expect Anderson to give us even $5 in hometown discounts unless he's extended right now and not after the season's over. 

I don't know. Hard to say, as a burner like Anderson may have value beyond his own stats and I'm just blind to it. Then again how hard is it to find a fast guy who gets 1-2 targets a game for half a season? It's not that smart to give up a 4th round pick for half a season of a "stretch the D" decoy. 

Anderson drew the PI play that led to the game winning TD. 
 

I think it’s obvious at this point that Anderson is a one trick pony, but that one trick is valuable.(can be the difference in a win or loss).

It’s frustrating because it’s plays like the one he couldn’t hold onto on 3rd and 10 that keep him from being a number 1 WR in this league. 

[Jetpain]

Typical game for Leo, but I think Giants D coordinator misplayed him.   He should have had Leo lined up against the turnstile that is Brian Winters but instead had their rookie D lineman against Winters (until winters got hurt ).   I think Giants missed this opportunity for a mismatch.   

[BigRy56]

The Giants were robbed here. Leo is an average at best player

[Alka]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

Absolutely no one is paying Leo $15 mil a year with term, not even the Giants. He'll end up getting a one year prove it deal for around $12 mil.  

If we didn't sign one free agent he might have garnered us a 7th rounder as a comp pick.

Yes, it makes sense that this is the way it will go down after this year.  

But if that happens, then the bad deal that the Giants made with the Jets turns into a catastrophic bad deal for the Giants. They would have given up a 3rd and 5th round pick for 1/2 of a year of Leonard Williams which gets them nothing for the future, in a year which is completely lost already for the Giants.

To not try to sign Williams to a future contract makes their GM look inept and very, very stupid.

After all, Leonard Williams is a known quantity, having played several years in this league.  

At least when the Jets drafted him, they had hopes of what he could be, but the Giants got him when they knew exactly what he is.

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 hours ago, carlito1171 said:

Did Leo play today? ??‍♂️

He almost made 5 nice plays today which brings his career totals to,:

95 almost nice plays

3 actual nice plays

[Alka]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

He almost made 5 nice plays today which brings his career totals to,:

95 almost nice plays

3 actual nice plays

I have to admit that I get more comedic value from reading so many Jets fans posts than I do from learning something new.  

This should be a new NFL stat:  Number of "Almost nice plays".  "Almost sacks" "Almost touchdowns"  "We almost won"  

Just think of how much better the Jets would be if we could just add the "almost plays" to be attributed to the Jets.

[Green DNA]

2 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

I hope the Giants give him a big deal. I love that higher pick. One last gift from Gettleman before he gets fired.

The Giants will definitely sign him, they wouldn’t give up two draft picks in a non-contending year just to let him walk after 8 games.   

[isired]

The Giants will definitely sign him, they wouldn’t give up two draft picks in a non-contending year just to let him walk after 8 games.   

That's really the head scratcher, i'in't it?

[Philc1]

Leo stinks.  Sheldon, Wilk (pre-getting paid), Coples (pre-Bowles) were all better

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Green DNA said:

The Giants will definitely sign him, they wouldn’t give up two draft picks in a non-contending year just to let him walk after 8 games.   

Plus what is the market for Leo?  The guy is a JAG DT

[Losmeister]

8 hours ago, slimjasi said:

he does have this amazing inability

spot on

[Jetster]

That 2nd rounder will be very high & that's the spot where we could get great value for either a WR or Center (Biadesz?). 

[Sperm Edwards]

10 hours ago, RonaldJet said:

Anderson drew the PI play that led to the game winning TD. 
 

I think it’s obvious at this point that Anderson is a one trick pony, but that one trick is valuable.(can be the difference in a win or loss).

It’s frustrating because it’s plays like the one he couldn’t hold onto on 3rd and 10 that keep him from being a number 1 WR in this league. 

That doesn't mean that only Anderson (and not some generic, speedy replacement) could/would have drawn it. That's a function of his speed and the throw being there, and the defender committing a penalty, more than Anderson's unique receiving skills package. I mean, it's not like he came down with the catch -- that would have been a far stronger argument. 

I'm a little tired of the "he's not a #1 WR" talk. No one thinks he is, and no one has ever claimed he is, so why repeat it? His being a "true #1 WR" is also patently unnecessary. A good corps consisting of complementary "#2" type receivers will serve the QB more than adequately (and better than a #1 plus garbage after him). While it's nice, we don't need one (the last one we had was 1 year of Brandon Marshall) who takes a lousy, mistimed throw and out-muscles 2 defenders to come down with it anyway. It's great on that play, but it's not a prerequisite. Well maybe it is if Darnold doesn't improve massively, but then that's discussion for a separate need.

I don't know what Anderson's problem is, but I think (and we've seen) he's talented enough to be a better receiver than he appears. It makes little sense that he was a better WR by his second season (plus all the wide open would be catches/TDs but McCown couldn't reach him downfield) than he has been as a veteran WR since then. Not just his stats (which are obvious) but it's like he's just barely or not at all part of the offense for multiple quarters at a time. 

I think they're poorly coached and that, combined with the lousy OL and yes Darnold's happy feet & lots of crappy plays/throws, the only productive pass catchers (still inconsistent at that) will be those whose routes are kept closer to the LOS: Crowder and, since Darnold returned to the field, Thomas. Since Thomas settled in, Anderson's usually catching what, 1 or 2 passes a game? Forget "not a #1 WR" -- that's not even #3 WR production. 

[NYJ1]

The Jets defensive line is NOT a very good unit. They played well today against a terrible team in the Giants, but that doesn't make them very good. Objectively speaking, they defend the run pretty well but they suck at the pass rush. They are an OK unit at best.

[bealeb319]

All the hate is unjustified imo. Leo is a solid player who never lived up to being drafted with the sixth overall pick. He is an above average player though if we took him on the third round or late second I think we would be happy with his production. I honestly don't feel like we robbed the Giants leo might not be the face of a franchise from a fans point of view since he doesn't get insane stats but behind the scenes he is good for a team.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Mo, Revis and uncle Sean Gilbert showed him the way to get over on the Johnsons but he got exposed before his contract year (and Mac was fired, credit Gase) Sad, since I think Leo could have been special

Bowles second year ruined many careers - should have been fired after that loss to Rex's Bills - playoffs, playoffs? Pepper Johnson was right!

[Sperm Edwards]

He gets pressures not sacks, and while we poke fun at it, that is a thing and it has value. If a pressure-not-sack play makes the QB toss a pick then it's better than a sack, even though it shows up in the stat sheet as nothing at all. 

When the Giants forked over all that money for Olivier Vernon that's what they were paying for. He didn't sack the QB very much, even as an edge rusher, but he pressured the QB as much as anyone not named Watt or Donald. 

Leo's "almost a sack" plays are worth a lot less on a team that doesn't have anyone else to pressure the QB from the other side (or from up the gut). If he's the only one chasing down the QB, then it's pressure on paper only but the QB isn't really rushed into poor decisions. Especially coming from the QB's left, since it's more comfortable for them to run & roll out to the right and still make a throw.

Why not line him up on the other side where that might give him a bigger advantage? Never mind lining up against RTs not LTs. Then on these almost-sack pressures the QB has to twist his torso towards him (and slow down to do it) in order to still make a pass attempt. Certainly helped similar guys like Ellis & Mo for years. 

[rangerous]

13 hours ago, RonaldJet said:

Anderson drew the PI play that led to the game winning TD. 
 

I think it’s obvious at this point that Anderson is a one trick pony, but that one trick is valuable.(can be the difference in a win or loss).

It’s frustrating because it’s plays like the one he couldn’t hold onto on 3rd and 10 that keep him from being a number 1 WR in this league. 

it also frustrating because anderson has had the benefit of playing on a bad team for his whole career.  it's a built in excuse as to why he's not open or doesn't get thrown the ball enough or doesn't have monster receiving games and so on.  if wants to be a no. 1 receiver or even no. 2 he's got run better routes or be able to get open regardless of what the rest of the team is doing.

[varjet]

I think Gettleman’s thesis for this trade, which should get him fired, was that it was a relatively risk less tryout since if he signed away from the Giants they would get the 3rd round pick back, albeit a much lower one than the Giants have.  

I think Gettleman was motivated by the opportunity to make the Jets look bad and win the SnoopyBowl.   Instead, Leo was blocked by Lewis, Compton, Winters and Harrison.   Maybe they saw Leo as helping save the Giants season, and their jobs.  Maybe the Maras wanted to show the Jets up?

This was not a good trade for the Giants.  Gettleman has been doing ok drafting.  They will wish they had that top 5 3rd round pick back.  That will be the Jets next starting guard , S or CB2.  

[Plen T]

rotational lineman

[bitonti]

13 hours ago, Green DNA said:

The Giants will definitely sign him, they wouldn’t give up two draft picks in a non-contending year just to let him walk after 8 games.   

it almost doesn't matter how Leo affects the stat sheet, the difference between a 4th and a 5th doesn't move the needle on the "sunk cost" meter

it's the wrong decision, they should walk away but they won't 

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, Plen T said:

rotational lineman

everyone is rotational tho 

it's 2019 teams don't ride their DT all game long any more 

a rotation of Leo, Tomlinson, Dexter Lawrence inside could keep all 3 more productive 

[PepPep]

This was a good deal for both sides. The reason the Jets D-line looked good was b/c the Giants O-line is not great and the Jets have some very good depth on the D-line, even without Leo- Fatukasi, McLendon, QW, Phillips, Shephard, H.Anderson, even Willis all have played well either in flashes or consistently. Now that the Giants have Leo, their D-line has gotten much better. They did not look bad against the Jets, they pretty much shut down Bell. You can argue that is b/c of how bad our Oline is, but from the Giants perspective, pairing Leo with Dexter Lawrence is a formidable combination for the future of the interior of that D-line. 

It will depend on whether Leo stays with the Giants and how much they end up paying him. If they agree on a team friendly contract its a pretty good deal for the Giants. Leo is a great locker room guy he never gets hurt and he always shows up. He's an always solid never bad never great kind of player. However, if they end up paying him a ton of money and his play begins to regress or he gets hurt and starts missing time I think they will regret the trade.