Darnold's Floor

[FireTheJohnsons]

6 hours ago, jgb said:

Haven’t we learned anything about unrealistic expectations from people expecting playoffs at the beginning of this season? Apparently some people never learn.

How much evidence do people need to expect the worst with this team?

Serious question, why do feel it’s your responsibility to tell fans how to be fans? If someone wants to be optimistic about a young QB, or about the season, it’s on them to deal with the consequences of their optimism, no? There is no right or wrong way to be a fan, and people get different things out of being a fan. Just like In life, there are half glass full and half glass empty people. Which side you stand on is far less important than how you handle adversity in life or as a fan. When people realize that what the jets do as zero bearing on the quality of their life in any way, it becomes easier to be a fan and root for your team. If they lose, it really has no impact on life, if they win, it’s more entertaining. But it’s all entertainment, nothing more, and everyone goes about their entertainment in their own way. I was optimistic about Sanchez, was wrong, my life is very good. I was extremely pessimistic about Rex, I was right, zero bearing on my life either way.

[Losmeister]

11 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Brett Favre without Brett Favre’s arm washes out of the league quickly.

since brevity is the soul of wit

he's possessed of mahomes or favres arm....

[Losmeister]

for whomever said " Darnold has an exceptionally strong arm.."

thank you. a morning laugh is good for the health.

 

[jgb]

55 minutes ago, FireTheJohnsons said:

Serious question, why do feel it’s your responsibility to tell fans how to be fans? If someone wants to be optimistic about a young QB, or about the season, it’s on them to deal with the consequences of their optimism, no? There is no right or wrong way to be a fan, and people get different things out of being a fan. Just like In life, there are half glass full and half glass empty people. Which side you stand on is far less important than how you handle adversity in life or as a fan. When people realize that what the jets do as zero bearing on the quality of their life in any way, it becomes easier to be a fan and root for your team. If they lose, it really has no impact on life, if they win, it’s more entertaining. But it’s all entertainment, nothing more, and everyone goes about their entertainment in their own way. I was optimistic about Sanchez, was wrong, my life is very good. I was extremely pessimistic about Rex, I was right, zero bearing on my life either way.

People can be as optimistic as they want to be. And I'm allowed to say I believe this is the wrong approach. Nowhere do I question their fandom or commitment to the Jets. If you think this is me "telling people how to be fans," check out the verbal abuse fans who said playoffs were impossible received: "Fake fan," "disloyal," "loser mentality," "troll," "secretly hoping Jets lose," "not allowed to enjoy it when Jets win," etc etc ad infinitum. Sorry but the homers should be able to handle "wow your expectations are totally unrealistic." That is the key difference between the homers and the realists/pessimists. None of us darksiders question the homers' status as Jets fans. THAT is what "telling others how to be a fan" would be. I believed the optimists were totally off on their predictions this year. Just so happens this time I was right.

Can't wait to do this all over again next off season because spoiler alert Jets aren't making the playoffs in 2020, either.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

18 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Darnold will get time.  All of next year to be certain.  I’m not even advocating giving up on him.  I don’t think I’ve ever called him a ‘bust,’ though, it’s possible if motivated, someone could prove me wrong there.  I simply argue the point, which ought not be so outlandish, that Darnold isn’t an obvious franchise QB if not for x,y,z.  He’s an athletic kid with a lot of talent, but poor instincts, and who doesn’t have the mental aspects of QBing down.  This actually explains why he’s better out of the pocket - less defenders to worry about, less decisions to make.

And ultimately, for the sake of this thread, his floor is not a guy who’s worst years we’re significantly better than anything he’s done to date.

I agree that there are other factors involved in why he’s not throwing lasers left and right, and I remember the throw you’re talking about well - even posted it was my favorite play of the game, because it’s an important weapon that you hadn’t seen from him.  That said, it’s exceptionally rare that he makes that throw - enough so that we both remember it - so, it still seems like an outlier.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not calling his arm bad.  I’m calling it an average NFL arm.  Not strong enough to rifle the ball into a tight window without setting his feet and delivering, as he did in the aforementioned play.  And the point I’m trying to make is that an average NFL arm is probably not be enough to compensate for a less deliberate, less cerebral style of play.  I’ve said, Brett Favre without Brett Favre’s arm washes out of the league quickly.

You can call that throw an “outlier”, but the fact remains he was able to make it in the first place which is proof enough for me that his arm is far above “average” when he wants it to be.

There is also plenty of footage from this last training camp where he fires more clotheslines into tight coverage while flat footed, off his back foot, all wrong and all done on purpose....Gase actually says out loud that he “can’t believe anyone can make those throws”.  His arm is very strong.

That you see him most of the time making  looping throws in live game action, trying to hit a receiver who has virtually zero separation while running for his life at the same time, and this scenario seems to play out 90% of the time and that’s the “good part”, it’s good because on lots of the other times he drops back to pass he’s buried under 3 bodies in under 1 second haha........there’s your “outlier”....just wait until the day he has adequate time and can plant, step and throw the SAME way he threw that out route against Denver.

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, jgb said:

Love how appeal to authority is the favored debate tactic when JN likes what the talking head says but it is evidence of a conspiracy against the Jets when we don’t like what is said. It is not a negative Nancy to point out that Darnold’s early career trajectory has no commonalities to Rogers except they are both from the state of California. Now this is a discussion board, so if you want to discuss, let’s see what you are basing this very provocative assessment on.

LOL.  You asked for a reason I made a claim.  I give you Tony Romo and you give some nonsense about agreeing or disagreeing with talking heads depending on whether it backs up a POV or not.  As if you haven done one and the same.

You want to agrue that all who see the talent, that believe he has the chance of developing  into a top QB level are wrong because YOU dont see it or just cant get your head around a Jet QB developing into anything on a top level, fine.  But dont argue with anyone who thinks he can.  Who wants to believe he has the ability, has shown glimpses of what he can become.  You dont agree, thats OK. The need to debate or discuss is pointless as there is no proof, just what we believe off of a handful of games.  

[jgb]

17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

LOL.  You asked for a reason, I give you Tony Romo and you give some nonsense about agreeing or disagreeing with talking heads depending on whether it backs up a POV or not.  

You want to agrue that all that see the talent, that believe he can develop to a top QB level are wrong because YOU dont see it, cant get your head around a Jet QB developing or that most dont develop fine.  But dont argue with anyone who thinks he can.  Who wants to believe he has the ability, has shown glimpses of what he can become.  You dont agree, that OK.  The need to debate or discuss is pointless as there is no proof, just what we believe off of a handful of gzmes.  

Your summary of my position is not accurate. I didn't say Darnold can't or won't be great. Only that the worst-case scenario is a lot worse than Philip Rivers and that I'd like to hear an actual reason for saying his ceiling is the greatest active QB beyond "well anything can happen..." You can't back it up but I don't blame you--there is no evidence to support it. It's a naked opinion, which is fine and you deserve a kudos if he reaches that.

[greenwichjetfan]

12 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

One last thing. How is it that this OP's thread has become the one where all of a sudden people are concerned about "beating someone up for his opinions?" This seems like a strange thread to take that tact, especially since the poor, picked upon OP has butt fumbled about 25 people in this thread for not agreeing with him.

I know the validity of cyber-bullying as I saw it’s consequences first hand in college, so in general I try to abstain from it. Others come here specifically for it, and have posted numerous times that their sole motive for entering JN is to instigate and laugh at others. 

That said, some people aren’t meant for the internet. That goes for both the ultra-sensitive, and the ultra-insensitive alike. There’s nothing to do about the insensitive because they probably need it to feel good about themselves and appealing to them to stop would only make it worse, but if you’re having such strong reactions to buttfumbles to the point where you feel the need to discuss/complain about them in numerous threads, maybe it’s better if you take a step back? 

[greenwichjetfan]

duped post, but will use this to get back on track. 

Discussing Sam’s floor is fine for a discussion board, but ultimately his floor is not why he was drafted 3rd overall. If his ceiling turns out to be anything that doesn’t lead to SBs, then I’d rather not waste my time - that includes the likes of Philip Rivers who is notoriously one of the worst big game QBs and has had his production propped up by years of playing on talented offenses. 

At the age of 22 with limited experience in college, his floor is probably closer to Geno Smith and I still don’t care. I’m more concerned with his ceiling over the next year and half so we can determine whether we need to stick with him.

[Jet Nut]

51 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I agree that there are other factors involved in why he’s not throwing lasers left and right, and I remember the throw you’re talking about well - even posted it was my favorite play of the game, because it’s an important weapon that you hadn’t seen from him.  That said, it’s exceptionally rare that he makes that throw - enough so that we both remember it - so, it still seems like an outlier.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not calling his arm bad.  I’m calling it an average NFL arm.  Not strong enough to rifle the ball into a tight window without setting his feet and delivering, as he did in the aforementioned play.  And the point I’m trying to make is that an average NFL arm is probably not be enough to compensate for a less deliberate, less cerebral style of play.  I’ve said, Brett Favre without Brett Favre’s arm washes out of the league quickly.

Average NFL arm? 

Cant throw into tight windows?

 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

14 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

duped post, but will use this to get back on track. 

Discussing Sam’s floor is fine for a discussion board, but ultimately his floor is not why he was drafted 3rd overall. If his ceiling turns out to be anything that doesn’t lead to SBs, then I’d rather not waste my time - that includes the likes of Philip Rivers who is notoriously one of the worst big game QBs and has had his production propped up by years of playing on talented offenses. 

At the age of 22 with limited experience in college, his floor is probably closer to Geno Smith and I still don’t care. I’m more concerned with his ceiling over the next year and half so we can determine whether we need to stick with him.

Exactly.

As management, once you can accurately gauge that the probability of the Floor or not much more above it is highly likely you move on.....quickly.

You don’t ie extend Mark Sanchez’ contract because you think you hurt his feelings and this contract extension will now un-hurt them and that will make him play better rather than be one of the worst QBs in the league, which you have already seen him be...over and over and over. 

[ZachEY]

36 minutes ago, jgb said:

Can't wait to do this all over again next off season because spoiler alert Jets aren't making the playoffs in 2020, either.

^ Not a real fan.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Average NFL arm? 

Cant throw into tight windows?

  

Yes.

"without setting his feet and delivering," yes.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Average NFL arm? 

Cant throw into tight windows?

 

 

This is an example of MANY of his throws since he likes to try to hit a receiver always in stride.  If he needs to put lots more gas on it...HE CAN...like that out route against Denver last year.  The more he plays, the better the protection (hopefully), the more chance you’ll see him fire more cannon shots.  The strength of his arm isn’t even questionable.

 

[ZachEY]

19 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I know the validity of cyber-bullying as I saw it’s consequences first hand in college, so in general I try to abstain from it. Others come here specifically for it, and have posted numerous times that their sole motive for entering JN is to instigate and laugh at others. 

 That said, some people aren’t meant for the internet. That goes for both the ultra-sensitive, and the ultra-insensitive alike. There’s nothing to do about the insensitive because they probably need it to feel good about themselves and appealing to them to stop would only make it worse, but if you’re having such strong reactions to buttfumbles to the point where you feel the need to discuss/complain about them in numerous threads, maybe it’s better if you take a step back? 

I'm sorry for your experience in college, either to you or someone you care about.  Truly.  You've told me a bit more about yourself and I'm glad that despite whatever happened, you seem to have found a very happy and successful life post-college.  Still, I imagine what happened was quite different than telling someone who calls themselves a "voice of reason" and then negative reps every post that disagrees with them, that their football opinion is not based in reason or reality, and using data to support it.

[14 in Green]

34 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I know the validity of cyber-bullying as I saw it’s consequences first hand in college, so in general I try to abstain from it. Others come here specifically for it, and have posted numerous times that their sole motive for entering JN is to instigate and laugh at others. 

That said, some people aren’t meant for the internet. That goes for both the ultra-sensitive, and the ultra-insensitive alike. There’s nothing to do about the insensitive because they probably need it to feel good about themselves and appealing to them to stop would only make it worse, but if you’re having such strong reactions to buttfumbles to the point where you feel the need to discuss/complain about them in numerous threads, maybe it’s better if you take a step back? 

I think there is a place for butt fumbles, I just think when people abuse them it shows a lack of maturity on their part.

I post a lot on this board, and I've gone months at a time without bf'ing anyone. If I disagree with a post, I'd rather quote the person. When you engage them, you get into a discussion, hear more of their point of view on a matter. I often find myself either understanding their point better, or sometimes coming around to agreeing with it. The people here who are "serial butt fumblers" do annoy me, and I think they annoy a lot of other people also. 

Sorry to hear about the cyber bullying, but I don't think it's appropo to this discussion. What I'm talking about is a level of civility. If a person starts a thread, they're usually putting their opinion out their before the board. They are inviting discussion. If you are willing to do that, why would you then BF everyone who disagrees with your opinion? A message board isn't an echo chamber.

BTW suggesting that bf'ing is being abused by some people here is an opinion. That's what we do here, we give our opinions. You suggesting my being bothered by them might be "reason to step back" is passive/aggressive BS, which is a strange tact for someone who claims to be a bullying victim to take.

[Losmeister]

53 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Y\adequate time and can plant, step and throw the SAME way he threw that out route against Denver.

remember that really great throw he made LAST YEAR...      that ONE of 414 that wasnt obe of his 15 INT's???

i mean...  may as well define Sanchez career by the laser TD in the AFCCG to Keller while getting blasted.

[The Voice of Reason]

11 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I think there is a place for butt fumbles, I just think when people abuse them it shows a lack of maturity on their part.

I post a lot on this board, and I've gone months at a time without bf'ing anyone. If I disagree with a post, I'd rather quote the person. When you engage them, you get into a discussion, hear more of their point of view on a matter. I often find myself either understanding their point better, or sometimes coming around to agreeing with it. The people here who are "serial butt fumblers" do annoy me, and I think they annoy a lot of other people also. 

Sorry to hear about the cyber bullying, but I don't think it's appropo to this discussion. What I'm talking about is a level of civility. If a person starts a thread, they're usually putting their opinion out their before the board. They are inviting discussion. If you are willing to do that, why would you then BF everyone who disagrees with your opinion? A message board isn't an echo chamber.

BTW suggesting that bf'ing is being abused by some people here is an opinion. That's what we do here, we give our opinions. You suggesting my being bothered by them might be "reason to step back" is passive/aggressive BS, which is a strange tact for someone who claims to be a bullying victim to take.

Dude, You literally butt fumble every other post, WTF are you talking about,.... I butt fumbled 4 people on this thread and were warranted by what they said.... I downvoted what I didn't think was a good point and upvoted what I thought was a good point... The amount of posters on this thread that have decided to make it their mission to call me dumb or say that I butt fumbled everyone that disagrees is incorrect... You engage with the butt fumbling more then most in this forum, so don't play some martyr.

If you can't engage in a conversation, calling them dumb or idiotic shows more immaturity then a downvote.

[Losmeister]

10 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I think there is a place for butt fumbles,...

BTW suggesting that bf'ing is being abused by some people here is an opinion. That's what we do here, we give our opinions. You suggesting my being bothered by them might be "reason to step back" is passive/aggressive BS, which is a strange tact for someone who claims to be a bullying victim to take.

anybody who has come here for more than a week knows the BFumblers are a pack of sophomoric dbags.

i promote use of IGNORE feature frequently cos when you ID someone who is openly antagonistic or whose football opinion as so whack...  that you cant even have a simulacrum of a football disucssion...  you're better off just not seeing their posts. end of.

[Maxman]

13 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I think there is a place for butt fumbles, I just think when people abuse them it shows a lack of maturity on their part.

I post a lot on this board, and I've gone months at a time without bf'ing anyone. If I disagree with a post, I'd rather quote the person. When you engage them, you get into a discussion, hear more of their point of view on a matter. I often find myself either understanding their point better, or sometimes coming around to agreeing with it. The people here who are "serial butt fumblers" do annoy me, and I think they annoy a lot of other people also. 

Sorry to hear about the cyber bullying, but I don't think it's appropo to this discussion. What I'm talking about is a level of civility. If a person starts a thread, they're usually putting their opinion out their before the board. They are inviting discussion. If you are willing to do that, why would you then BF everyone who disagrees with your opinion? A message board isn't an echo chamber.

BTW suggesting that bf'ing is being abused by some people here is an opinion. That's what we do here, we give our opinions. You suggesting my being bothered by them might be "reason to step back" is passive/aggressive BS, which is a strange tact for someone who claims to be a bullying victim to take.

You are fighting with too many people so I'll just take away rep from you. It is being abused.

[Maxman]

Mods I'm putting a thread about this in the mod forum.

Too many people are being overly negative towards other posters and there's too many personal attacks.

Time to clean it up and start banning people who can't comply with the rules.

[The Crusher]

5 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Mods I'm putting a thread about this in the mod forum.

Too many people are being overly negative towards other posters and there's too many personal attacks.

Time to clean it up and start banning people who can't comply with the rules.

Got it boss . Do we start with the list we compiled in the mod forum?