The QB Thread

[kdels62]

3 hours ago, maury77 said:

Sec 103, row 14, hit me up for the chance to see Zachapono Mahomes in person! Get them while they last! 

I’ll go to games for you and suffer the Wilson era and we call it an internship? Seems like a deal to me.

[Jdub03]

2 hours ago, maury77 said:

It is in a lot of ways. I should clarify that I don't hate Wilson as a prospect. I think ideally he would go to a place like Pittsburgh, sit behind Ben for a year, acclimate himself to the speed of the NFL game and become a pretty good NFL starting QB (similar to a Jared Goff although their play styles are completely different). What I DO hate are the Wilson truthers that cannot tolerate any criticism of Wilson or that make him out to be this top of the draft talent that has a super computer for a brain and is basically Mahomes in a smaller package. I don't think the Jets have enough talent to support Wilson as a rookie starter. It's not like when Sanchez was here and the offense was LOADED around him. The Jets had a bottom 3 offense last year and they added Corey Davis (good player, but he's not Julio Jones either), Tevin Coleman, Tyler Kroft and Dan Feeney. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Fields is going to come in as a passer and light the world up either. However, I think Fields is a good enough runner and thrower that you can simplify his responsibilities (if read 1 and 2 are not open, run) that the Jets could follow a similar approach to what the Bills did with Allen where they added more responsibility to his plate in subsequent seasons. I don't think Wilson offers that as a rookie. 

I think the other thing that irks me is this narrative that is being shoved down our throats about Wilson being a perfect fit for the Shanahan offense. There IS NO perfect fit for the offense because it adjusts itself to the QB. You've seen Matt Ryan (a pocket passer with limited mobility), Jimmy Garrapolo (an accurate passer with some mobility) and RG3 (one of the most mobile QB prospects to come out of the NFL draft) all thrive in the Shanahan system. 

I guess at the end of the day, I don't like being force fed narratives by the media. 

I do wonder if ZW play style has elevated him as a prospect.  When your play is similar to a great player, it makes them easier to visualize on your team being successful.  Then when you watch the tape your looking to validate your initial opinion.

I do like Zach, but I also like Sam, and I think they have a lot similarities.

Pros of both

1. Illusive in pocket and can extend plays

2. Off platform throwing ability / Throwing on the run

3. Sneaky Athletic

4. They both appear intelligent and mentally tough.

Cons

1. Sometime there internal clock is too fast. They go through progressions to quickly.

2. Field vision: they both miss open guys, which may be attributed to the above.

3. Hero ball: they both will put the ball up in double/triple coverage.  The outcomes have been good for Zach in college, I don't think it will be as favorable in the pros. I will say though, his ball placement is good on these risky throws.

4. They both have some accuracy issues in different ways. Sam has regressed on his deep ball and his mechanics get wonky at times.  (Nit picking) Zach misses some easy short throws to the flat and sideline, but is quite accurate deep. He's appears more accurate when his mechanics aren't right.

What I find interesting is that many of the Zach fans were one time Darnold fans. This makes sense to me as it comes full circle to play style. I'm not going to argue which is/was a better prospect, just wanted to illustrate what I see when watching YouTube cut ups and analysis from many of the same guys you listed above. 

[win4ever]

4 hours ago, maury77 said:

It is in a lot of ways. I should clarify that I don't hate Wilson as a prospect. I think ideally he would go to a place like Pittsburgh, sit behind Ben for a year, acclimate himself to the speed of the NFL game and become a pretty good NFL starting QB (similar to a Jared Goff although their play styles are completely different). What I DO hate are the Wilson truthers that cannot tolerate any criticism of Wilson or that make him out to be this top of the draft talent that has a super computer for a brain and is basically Mahomes in a smaller package. I don't think the Jets have enough talent to support Wilson as a rookie starter. It's not like when Sanchez was here and the offense was LOADED around him. The Jets had a bottom 3 offense last year and they added Corey Davis (good player, but he's not Julio Jones either), Tevin Coleman, Tyler Kroft and Dan Feeney. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Fields is going to come in as a passer and light the world up either. However, I think Fields is a good enough runner and thrower that you can simplify his responsibilities (if read 1 and 2 are not open, run) that the Jets could follow a similar approach to what the Bills did with Allen where they added more responsibility to his plate in subsequent seasons. I don't think Wilson offers that as a rookie. 

I think the other thing that irks me is this narrative that is being shoved down our throats about Wilson being a perfect fit for the Shanahan offense. There IS NO perfect fit for the offense because it adjusts itself to the QB. You've seen Matt Ryan (a pocket passer with limited mobility), Jimmy Garrapolo (an accurate passer with some mobility) and RG3 (one of the most mobile QB prospects to come out of the NFL draft) all thrive in the Shanahan system. 

I guess at the end of the day, I don't like being force fed narratives by the media. 

I think it's actually wrong that Wilson is a perfect fit for the offense, because the system itself is designed to reduce the responsibility of the QB.  Essentially, the Shanahan system relies on the outside zone to get defenders out of position or over compensate, thus you are taking a standard defense and moving it with scheme.  A Gase offense relies more on the QB moving the defense much like Peyton, which is why many folks think Darnold would improve because he has much less responsibility.  

Wilson runs a power rush spread offense, but he bypasses the system with a bunch of go routes/back shoulder combinations because the competition can't handle it.  You'll see plenty of easy opportunities passed up, created by the system, for riskier throws.  Now he connects on them and his arm talent is good, but that doesn't play within the system.  

I'll give a relevant example.  At Baylor with Petty, a single high safety look is pretty much an auto-check into the outside receivers running a go route, and the QB picks the best matchup,  When Petty first burst onto the scene with the Jets, he kept peppering Robby Anderson with missed throws down the field because to him, single high safety meant taking the deep shot.   It works much better in college because one on one match ups are much easier to win in college than the pros.  

All my articles are done, just waiting for the clearance.  Think there is some worry it's a bit too extensive into the negative.  

[win4ever]

Coastal Carolina pisses me off to hear people defend Wilson, as he bought them within a yard of victory.  He had like 160 yards with about 1 minute to go in the 4th, when Coastal absolutely went terrible defense mode playing it safe.   

His one TD in that game is a sideline catch, where the defender thought the guy was out of bounds and gets out of his way, receiver runs 30 yards down the field.  The interception should also be negated, just a Hail Mary at the end of the half.  

He played well below average in that game, but it's somehow brought up as "he led them to 1 yard of the win".   

[maury77]

I think it's actually wrong that Wilson is a perfect fit for the offense, because the system itself is designed to reduce the responsibility of the QB.  Essentially, the Shanahan system relies on the outside zone to get defenders out of position or over compensate, thus you are taking a standard defense and moving it with scheme.  A Gase offense relies more on the QB moving the defense much like Peyton, which is why many folks think Darnold would improve because he has much less responsibility.  
Wilson runs a power rush spread offense, but he bypasses the system with a bunch of go routes/back shoulder combinations because the competition can't handle it.  You'll see plenty of easy opportunities passed up, created by the system, for riskier throws.  Now he connects on them and his arm talent is good, but that doesn't play within the system.  
I'll give a relevant example.  At Baylor with Petty, a single high safety look is pretty much an auto-check into the outside receivers running a go route, and the QB picks the best matchup,  When Petty first burst onto the scene with the Jets, he kept peppering Robby Anderson with missed throws down the field because to him, single high safety meant taking the deep shot.   It works much better in college because one on one match ups are much easier to win in college than the pros.  
All my articles are done, just waiting for the clearance.  Think there is some worry it's a bit too extensive into the negative.  

I can’t break this down to the same level you do, nice work, look forward to the article.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shockwave]

12 hours ago, maury77 said:

It is in a lot of ways. I should clarify that I don't hate Wilson as a prospect. I think ideally he would go to a place like Pittsburgh, sit behind Ben for a year, acclimate himself to the speed of the NFL game and become a pretty good NFL starting QB (similar to a Jared Goff although their play styles are completely different). What I DO hate are the Wilson truthers that cannot tolerate any criticism of Wilson or that make him out to be this top of the draft talent that has a super computer for a brain and is basically Mahomes in a smaller package. I don't think the Jets have enough talent to support Wilson as a rookie starter. It's not like when Sanchez was here and the offense was LOADED around him. The Jets had a bottom 3 offense last year and they added Corey Davis (good player, but he's not Julio Jones either), Tevin Coleman, Tyler Kroft and Dan Feeney. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Fields is going to come in as a passer and light the world up either. However, I think Fields is a good enough runner and thrower that you can simplify his responsibilities (if read 1 and 2 are not open, run) that the Jets could follow a similar approach to what the Bills did with Allen where they added more responsibility to his plate in subsequent seasons. I don't think Wilson offers that as a rookie. 

I think the other thing that irks me is this narrative that is being shoved down our throats about Wilson being a perfect fit for the Shanahan offense. There IS NO perfect fit for the offense because it adjusts itself to the QB. You've seen Matt Ryan (a pocket passer with limited mobility), Jimmy Garrapolo (an accurate passer with some mobility) and RG3 (one of the most mobile QB prospects to come out of the NFL draft) all thrive in the Shanahan system. 

I guess at the end of the day, I don't like being force fed narratives by the media. 

Really love this take because at the root of things it's how i feel exactly. 

I have now had hours and hours to watch Wilson and Fields videos. Drafting two and only choosing between 2 guys really helps. 

Zach makes some ridiculous throws. His release is really fast and he has a-lot of upside. He's definitely athletic, competitive and he def has this killer instinct I really like. Theres this play from one of JT's recent Wilson videos where JT criticizes Zach Wilson for going from his 1st read (Post) to his second read (Out) back to the post. Obviously I know nothing compared to pretty much anyone but I just saw this as Wilson going for the Kill. Not being happy with 20 yards and wanting a 50 yard bomb. Its the kind of play I associate with top 10 QB's.....But heres the thing. We are a terrible offense. Just ruined a QB and these types never work for us. How often do guys hit their upside with the Jets? Especially with prior surgeries. Wilson comes here and they are going to ask him to start day 1 and he's going to get killed. 

With Fields the more I watch him there are just little things I really like. That play where he blocks for the RB. Some of his runs around the pocket you could just tell he is one of those people that will not be denied. Obviously very accurate. I think the Josh Allen path would work really well for him here. Also it does make a difference to me that Wilson has had a injury history and Fields athletically is pretty much perfect? Lastly the kid has been in the spotlight forever. This would not be too big for him. Just seems so much safer then Wilson. 

 

[maury77]

19 hours ago, kdels62 said:

I’ll go to games for you and suffer the Wilson era and we call it an internship? Seems like a deal to me.

If you go to a white shoe law firm, you won't have enough time to watch any live games for about 4-5 years

[maury77]

9 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Really love this take because at the root of things it's how i feel exactly. 

I have now had hours and hours to watch Wilson and Fields videos. Drafting two and only choosing between 2 guys really helps. 

Zach makes some ridiculous throws. His release is really fast and he has a-lot of upside. He's definitely athletic, competitive and he def has this killer instinct I really like. Theres this play from one of JT's recent Wilson videos where JT criticizes Zach Wilson for going from his 1st read (Post) to his second read (Out) back to the post. Obviously I know nothing compared to pretty much anyone but I just saw this as Wilson going for the Kill. Not being happy with 20 yards and wanting a 50 yard bomb. Its the kind of play I associate with top 10 QB's.....But heres the thing. We are a terrible offense. Just ruined a QB and these types never work for us. How often do guys hit their upside with the Jets? Especially with prior surgeries. Wilson comes here and they are going to ask him to start day 1 and he's going to get killed. 

With Fields the more I watch him there are just little things I really like. That play where he blocks for the RB. Some of his runs around the pocket you could just tell he is one of those people that will not be denied. Obviously very accurate. I think the Josh Allen path would work really well for him here. Also it does make a difference to me that Wilson has had a injury history and Fields athletically is pretty much perfect? Lastly the kid has been in the spotlight forever. This would not be too big for him. Just seems so much safer then Wilson. 

 

Thank you. That is the part that is mind boggling to me because the media makes it seem like Wilson is the safer pick because Fields is "undeveloped" as a passer. 

[maury77]

Just opted out of my season tickets for the year and it feels great!

[win4ever]

I can’t break this down to the same level you do, nice work, look forward to the article.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Going to take a bit. It's too negative for JN, which I understand. Not good to have 15 articles saying Wilson isn't the right pick when he likely is the pick.

Looking to just start a WordPress site, a quick 2 month hosting, and I'll post it there. Then let it it die if we pick Wilson.

[maury77]

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, maury77 said:

 

I tried to prepare you.

[kdels62]

49 minutes ago, JiF said:

I tried to prepare you.

Zachapono!!!!!!!!

[derp]

Thought having two first round picks would be more fun. We know who’s going at 2 and I can’t think of anyone who makes sense at 23.

[JustInFudge]

On 11/7/2020 at 7:30 AM, maury77 said:

Is it time to add a Zach Wilson video to this thread?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

On 11/7/2020 at 7:39 AM, derp said:

I think he’s got a real chance if he ends up in the right place. Don’t expect he’d be in play at the very top of the draft but if I think he’s got a real chance if he ends up in the right situation. His arm talent and style are fun to watch.

 

On 11/8/2020 at 7:34 AM, JiF said:

Yes and while I've been hesitant and I'm still not conviced, Kyle Trask needs to be in the conversation.  You cant ignore someone that if it were a full season, is on pace to throw more TD's than Joe Burrow did last year.

I think it's pretty ironic, 3 dudes now considered Wilson haters, were the first to say, lets start talking about Zach Wilson.

lmfao

 

[derp]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

 

 

I think it's pretty ironic, 3 dudes now considered Wilson haters, were the first to say, lets start talking about Zach Wilson.

lmfao

 

The arm talent is real, the creativity is nice if you can reel it in, there’s a feel for making +EV decisions that I don’t think the Jets’ recent quarterbacks have had, but there’s definitely some legitimately concerning stuff too. I think win4ever’s thread was great.

I don’t think any of these quarterbacks are flawless. Like I think we’ve gone back and forth on, I feel the best about putting together a long-term plan for Fields. From a risk reward standpoint, I’ll take the fourth or fifth QB off the board (depending on if Mac Jones is in the top four or not), accept that other capital, and sit him for a year. I’m not risking my job on any of these guys at two. So much work needs to be done to build this team. The track record of top five drafted QB’s this last decade or so speaks for itself. Higher hit rate in the 6-10 range than 1-5. That’s crazy.

I actually would’ve traded down, targeted my favorite mid round QB at 66, signed a capable bridge guy, see if I have lightning in a bottle with the young guy or Morgan, and come back at QB next year if I had to with 3 first rounders, a better roster, and an installed offense.

Even little things concern me. Sounds like they’re starting the guy day one. Yikes. New quarterback who’s raw and has bad habits - regardless of who it is - offense getting installed - bottom third of the league level skill talent. I hope I’m wrong but yuck.

[win4ever]

[JustInFudge]

12 hours ago, derp said:

The arm talent is real, the creativity is nice if you can reel it in, there’s a feel for making +EV decisions that I don’t think the Jets’ recent quarterbacks have had, but there’s definitely some legitimately concerning stuff too. I think win4ever’s thread was great.

I don’t think any of these quarterbacks are flawless. Like I think we’ve gone back and forth on, I feel the best about putting together a long-term plan for Fields. From a risk reward standpoint, I’ll take the fourth or fifth QB off the board (depending on if Mac Jones is in the top four or not), accept that other capital, and sit him for a year. I’m not risking my job on any of these guys at two. So much work needs to be done to build this team. The track record of top five drafted QB’s this last decade or so speaks for itself. Higher hit rate in the 6-10 range than 1-5. That’s crazy.

I actually would’ve traded down, targeted my favorite mid round QB at 66, signed a capable bridge guy, see if I have lightning in a bottle with the young guy or Morgan, and come back at QB next year if I had to with 3 first rounders, a better roster, and an installed offense.

Even little things concern me. Sounds like they’re starting the guy day one. Yikes. New quarterback who’s raw and has bad habits - regardless of who it is - offense getting installed - bottom third of the league level skill talent. I hope I’m wrong but yuck.

You and me both, brother, the idea they're strapping Wilson who in my opinion is a complete rework project to be anywhere near NFL ready and handing him to a rookie HC, rookie OC, rookie DC on the worst team in Football and are going to ask him to start the season, is just terrifying, I dont know how to put it any better.  Luckily they have Greg Knapp in the building but still, this isnt Mahomes going to Andy Ried on a playoff team learning behind an All-Pro.  This isnt Rodgers going to Green Bay and watching a HOF'er for a few years.  This isnt Watson joining a team who made the playoffs 2 years in a row w/ the best WR in football and were truly just a QB away from being good.  This isnt Mayfield joining a loaded team that just need the coaching.  This isnt Josh Allen joining a playoff team with great coaching and a FO that did everything in their power to build around him.  This is the worst team in Football that hasnt add a single player of significance added to the franchise in years sans an often injured LT.  While Davis, Mims, Crowder is an upgrade, this is still easily a bottom 3 offense in the league nd you're going to hand it over to a 1 year wonder who is basically making the jump from intermural flag football to the NFL.  

Exciting!!!

 

 

[win4ever]

Also in that thread:

"Also, Justin Fields probably has the best overall charting profile I have ever recorded. Best adjusted accuracy I've ever had, while his worst areas are all just fine rather than bad or concerning."

[greenwichjetfan]

On 4/8/2021 at 11:47 PM, win4ever said:

 

25 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Also in that thread:

"Also, Justin Fields probably has the best overall charting profile I have ever recorded. Best adjusted accuracy I've ever had, while his worst areas are all just fine rather than bad or concerning."

 

I really like that the metrics back up what some of us were saying even during the CFB season while we were watching it all happen. 

We see this every year. A QB gets hyped up to a higher pick than he is deserving of because they have the better marketing/campaign team that strike in the lull between end of season and draft month. Generally, this is when people are actually doing their due diligence on the prospects, and the more thorough ones who truly do deep dives take a lot longer than a few weeks after the season to show their work. Some years, the hype is good enough and a team is stupid enough to have it work out; see Trubisky. Most years, it doesn't.

As we get closer to the draft, we're seeing more and more metrics and analysis come out from football nerds (term of endearment) showing that Fields really was working with less while going up against better competition week in and week out - and was still producing at a high and relatively efficient level. These are things that actually matter when projecting a QB. So does throwing 6 TDs against Clemson to take your team to the National Championship. But the Wilson truthers will tell you that none of that really matters, cuz projecting a QB is really only about "skill-sets". 

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

 

I really like that the metrics back up what some of us were saying even during the CFB season while we were watching it all happen. 

We see this every year. A QB gets hyped up to a higher pick than he is deserving of because they have the better marketing/campaign team that strike in the lull between end of season and draft month. Generally, this is when people are actually doing their due diligence on the prospects, and the more thorough ones who truly do deep dives take a lot longer than a few weeks after the season to show their work. Some years, the hype is good enough and a team is stupid enough to have it work out; see Trubisky. Most years, it doesn't.

As we get closer to the draft, we're seeing more and more metrics and analysis come out from football nerds (term of endearment) showing that Fields really was working with less while going up against better competition week in and week out - and was still producing at a high and relatively efficient level. These are things that actually matter when projecting a QB. So does throwing 6 TDs against Clemson to take your team to the National Championship. But the Wilson truthers will tell you that none of that really matters, cuz projecting a QB is really only about "skill-sets". 

I mean those metrics plus QBase tell you that taking Wilson is probably a good idea. Jetsxfactor also did an analysis that concludes that drop percentage and a QB’s accuracy tend to be related. Should we apply that here?

If looking at PFF, then it tracks Thats Wilson was gonna be intriguing and capable of improvement.  Is it coincidence that his teammates suddenly look good after he figured it out in is true Junior season? Wilson put up the highest PFF score on his offense as a freshman. 

You can debate Wilson vs Fields and have a fair discussion but diminishing Wilson’s validity as a prospect is weak. 

 

[fullblast]

1 hour ago, win4ever said:

 

 

Also in that thread:

"Also, Justin Fields probably has the best overall charting profile I have ever recorded. Best adjusted accuracy I've ever had, while his worst areas are all just fine rather than bad or concerning."

 

We will regret passing on Fields.

[maury77]

On 4/8/2021 at 6:50 PM, derp said:

The arm talent is real, the creativity is nice if you can reel it in, there’s a feel for making +EV decisions that I don’t think the Jets’ recent quarterbacks have had, but there’s definitely some legitimately concerning stuff too. I think win4ever’s thread was great.

I don’t think any of these quarterbacks are flawless. Like I think we’ve gone back and forth on, I feel the best about putting together a long-term plan for Fields. From a risk reward standpoint, I’ll take the fourth or fifth QB off the board (depending on if Mac Jones is in the top four or not), accept that other capital, and sit him for a year. I’m not risking my job on any of these guys at two. So much work needs to be done to build this team. The track record of top five drafted QB’s this last decade or so speaks for itself. Higher hit rate in the 6-10 range than 1-5. That’s crazy.

I actually would’ve traded down, targeted my favorite mid round QB at 66, signed a capable bridge guy, see if I have lightning in a bottle with the young guy or Morgan, and come back at QB next year if I had to with 3 first rounders, a better roster, and an installed offense.

Even little things concern me. Sounds like they’re starting the guy day one. Yikes. New quarterback who’s raw and has bad habits - regardless of who it is - offense getting installed - bottom third of the league level skill talent. I hope I’m wrong but yuck.

Some time to kill waiting for the Judge to call us back in. 

I think aside from Lawrence, none of these QBs are going to be able to come in and flourish right away. The difference with Fields is I think you can effectively use him as a legitimate running threat in the wide zone. Whenever the team would run outside, the LBs would really have to think about where to run because of the threat of Fields gashing them with a bootleg. I think you can have modest success with Fields running a simplified offense his first year. 

Wilson has a good arm and he can make all sorts of crazy throws from different angles and being off platform. He is also, aesthetically, the best thrower in the class. The ball comes out effortlessly when he throws it. That being said, I don't know how important some of that stuff is when it comes to winning games. I don't see the high-level processor that others see. I see a guy that would pass up open throws to take deep jump balls against poor CBs. I think Milne and Romney are better than some people give them credit for and I think they bailed Wilson out a lot. But again, none of this is surprising coming from me. 

On the bright side, I'm billing time while posting on Jetnation!

[derp]

4 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Some time to kill waiting for the Judge to call us back in. 

I think aside from Lawrence, none of these QBs are going to be able to come in and flourish right away. The difference with Fields is I think you can effectively use him as a legitimate running threat in the wide zone. Whenever the team would run outside, the LBs would really have to think about where to run because of the threat of Fields gashing them with a bootleg. I think you can have modest success with Fields running a simplified offense his first year. 

Wilson has a good arm and he can make all sorts of crazy throws from different angles and being off platform. He is also, aesthetically, the best thrower in the class. The ball comes out effortlessly when he throws it. That being said, I don't know how important some of that stuff is when it comes to winning games. I don't see the high-level processor that others see. I see a guy that would pass up open throws to take deep jump balls against poor CBs. I think Milne and Romney are better than some people give them credit for and I think they bailed Wilson out a lot. But again, none of this is surprising coming from me. 

On the bright side, I'm billing time while posting on Jetnation!

This is a great post, I wholeheartedly agree, and get that bread.

[kdels62]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

Some time to kill waiting for the Judge to call us back in. 

I think aside from Lawrence, none of these QBs are going to be able to come in and flourish right away. The difference with Fields is I think you can effectively use him as a legitimate running threat in the wide zone. Whenever the team would run outside, the LBs would really have to think about where to run because of the threat of Fields gashing them with a bootleg. I think you can have modest success with Fields running a simplified offense his first year. 

Wilson has a good arm and he can make all sorts of crazy throws from different angles and being off platform. He is also, aesthetically, the best thrower in the class. The ball comes out effortlessly when he throws it. That being said, I don't know how important some of that stuff is when it comes to winning games. I don't see the high-level processor that others see. I see a guy that would pass up open throws to take deep jump balls against poor CBs. I think Milne and Romney are better than some people give them credit for and I think they bailed Wilson out a lot. But again, none of this is surprising coming from me. 

On the bright side, I'm billing time while posting on Jetnation!

Lawrence will be the worst of the 3. 

Romney and Milne are worse players than we even realize. They’re only made relevant by the star QB. 

These are my takes 

[JustInFudge]

6 hours ago, win4ever said:

 

 

Also in that thread:

"Also, Justin Fields probably has the best overall charting profile I have ever recorded. Best adjusted accuracy I've ever had, while his worst areas are all just fine rather than bad or concerning."

 

Interesting and not surprising. @greenwichjetfan was the first to bring up the on target accuracy to all parts of the field stats back when the conversation was is Fields as good as Lawrence/Lawrence isnt generational, long before Zachapono became a thing, anywho.  The one thing that is impressive though, Zachapono is a beast in the Red Zone in college.   Fields was great by any measure but Wilson was pretty ridiculous, damn near as flawless as you could be on that part of the field.

 

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, maury77 said:

Some time to kill waiting for the Judge to call us back in. 

I think aside from Lawrence, none of these QBs are going to be able to come in and flourish right away. The difference with Fields is I think you can effectively use him as a legitimate running threat in the wide zone. Whenever the team would run outside, the LBs would really have to think about where to run because of the threat of Fields gashing them with a bootleg. I think you can have modest success with Fields running a simplified offense his first year. 

Wilson has a good arm and he can make all sorts of crazy throws from different angles and being off platform. He is also, aesthetically, the best thrower in the class. The ball comes out effortlessly when he throws it. That being said, I don't know how important some of that stuff is when it comes to winning games. I don't see the high-level processor that others see. I see a guy that would pass up open throws to take deep jump balls against poor CBs. I think Milne and Romney are better than some people give them credit for and I think they bailed Wilson out a lot. But again, none of this is surprising coming from me. 

On the bright side, I'm billing time while posting on Jetnation!

Agreed with all this, while I think Fields athleticism, intelligence and accuracy at all level of the field would translate pretty quickly, I think Lawrence just has the experience and the LOS control that these other prospects just havent had enough experience to really trust from that respect.  

The bold; every time I watch Wilson, I see this teammates making amazing plays.  Somewhat reminds of me Lawrence and Higgins/Ross/Rodgers making incredible acrobatic catches.  Are any of them draft prospect or are they all UDFA's? 

[greenwichjetfan]

6 hours ago, kdels62 said:

You can debate Wilson vs Fields and have a fair discussion but diminishing Wilson’s validity as a prospect is weak. 

 

Ok, but where did I diminished Wilson?

[kdels62]

14 hours ago, JiF said:

Agreed with all this, while I think Fields athleticism, intelligence and accuracy at all level of the field would translate pretty quickly, I think Lawrence just has the experience and the LOS control that these other prospects just havent had enough experience to really trust from that respect.  

The bold; every time I watch Wilson, I see this teammates making amazing plays.  Somewhat reminds of me Lawrence and Higgins/Ross/Rodgers making incredible acrobatic catches.  Are any of them draft prospect or are they all UDFA's? 

1 draftable post 5th round prospect who sucked until this year.

More likely that Wilson elevated a bunch of mediocre players against similar competition than multiple guys elevating the QB.

[kdels62]

13 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Ok, but where did I diminished Wilson?

“Wilson-truthers” The idea that Wilson isn’t also a darling of analytics. The analytical difference between Wilson and Fields is relatively null while generally Lawrence lags a big behind them. 

[JustInFudge]

12 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

1 draftable post 5th round prospect who sucked until this year.

More likely that Wilson elevated a bunch of mediocre players against similar competition than multiple guys elevating the QB.

Interesting.  The catches and adjustments I've seen are incredible on some plays, not sure how that's a positive for the guy making the throws though.  I feel like not having your WR's make incredible catches is usually a better indictment of elevating play.  It's part of the reason I've knocked Lawrence but fair enough.

[kdels62]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

Interesting.  The catches and adjustments I've seen are incredible on some plays, not sure how that's a positive for the guy making the throws though.  I feel like not having your WR's make incredible catches is usually a better indictment of elevating play.  It's part of the reason I've knocked Lawrence but fair enough.

I don’t think of any incredible catches from his players. I see good adjustments but that’s dependent on where Wilson puts the ball. Wilson is rarely throwing jump balls that his WRs have to wrestle away from defenders. Usually the throws are in places where only his receiver can get it. The receiver has to adjust but I think that has more to do with understanding of the expectations from Wilson and the coaching staff than exceptional talent from the receiver. Lawrence would actually throw balls directly at defenders for his receivers to grab. 

I do think Wilson was over reliant on his chemistry with his receivers at times and it led to him leaving points on the board. 

[greenwichjetfan]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

“Wilson-truthers” The idea that Wilson isn’t also a darling of analytics. The analytical difference between Wilson and Fields is relatively null while generally Lawrence lags a big behind them. 

Thanks for confirming that I didn't diminish Wilson in my initial post. 

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

I don’t think of any incredible catches from his players. I see good adjustments but that’s dependent on where Wilson puts the ball. Wilson is rarely throwing jump balls that his WRs have to wrestle away from defenders. Usually the throws are in places where only his receiver can get it. The receiver has to adjust but I think that has more to do with understanding of the expectations from Wilson and the coaching staff than exceptional talent from the receiver. Lawrence would actually throw balls directly at defenders for his receivers to grab. 

I do think Wilson was over reliant on his chemistry with his receivers at times and it led to him leaving points on the board. 

Yeah, disagree.   I saw amazing catches, lots of adjustments, lots of jump yolo's and in flight fights in addition to often miss placed balls.  And I think that's the only place where the competition question comes into play, does a better defender let these plays happen?  I tend to think so.  It reminds somewhat of Trask.  Trask would just throw it up to Pitts/Grimes and trust them even if it was double covered.  During an all SEC scheduled, those plays, were picks. 

 

 

[Grandy]

On 4/13/2021 at 1:37 PM, win4ever said:

 

 

Also in that thread:

"Also, Justin Fields probably has the best overall charting profile I have ever recorded. Best adjusted accuracy I've ever had, while his worst areas are all just fine rather than bad or concerning."

 

Fields has VERY impressive accuracy charts. I think people are getting to cute about his evaluation. His pocket presence, and out of pocket ability leaves something to be desired at times but he's got a great arm and is very accurate at all levels no matter what.

Interesting that he found the same thing I did from Wilson film. He's deadly accurate downfield but had a tendency to sometimes sail dump-offs. Not extremely concerning, but somewhat confusing.