Fields is an elite prospect too

[Adoni Beast]

2 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

Why should one game matter . If that's the case last years championship game where Lawrence sh*t the bed against LSU should mean Lawrence should not be #1 . This is all ridiculous hyperbole by fans who have no clue what the NFL scouts and draft assessors really look at and for in a QB. 

Not in my eyes. If he plays lights out against Clemson...I’d still want Wilson.

But, Fields and Wilson are both neck and neck for the #2 spot in the majority’s eyes. If Fields has a great game, I think most people will put him at 2

[56mehl56]

9 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Not in my eyes. If he plays lights out against Clemson...I’d still want Wilson.

But, Fields and Wilson are both neck and neck for the #2 spot in the majority’s eyes. If Fields has a great game, I think most people will put him at 2

But that's in essence my argument , one game doesn't and shouldn't matter. These guys need to be evaluated on their entire body of work . They need to look at tape and game situations from all games not just cherry picked ones to make a guy look good/bad. People saying Fields sucks because he had a decent game against Ind and a bad game against NW is just over reaction.  Even if Fields lights it up or falls flat on his face against Clemson , he should be evaluated for the whole package. Fields should be the #2 pick , the real question is how does JD feel about Sam or Morgan ?

[Ghost420]

3 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

Russell - I agree

Touche

[sec101row23]

35 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But that's in essence my argument , one game doesn't and shouldn't matter. These guys need to be evaluated on their entire body of work . They need to look at tape and game situations from all games not just cherry picked ones to make a guy look good/bad. People saying Fields sucks because he had a decent game against Ind and a bad game against NW is just over reaction.  Even if Fields lights it up or falls flat on his face against Clemson , he should be evaluated for the whole package. Fields should be the #2 pick , the real question is how does JD feel about Sam or Morgan ?

I agree.  People are changing their opinions on these kids every time they throw a pass now.  In the first half of a game the kid is a future HOFer, he makes 3 bad throws and all of sudden he isn’t draft able.   WAY too much emphasis is placed on a specific game or even a half of football.  They are data points sure, but too many people are rising and falling on every throw.  

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Jet Life said:

I don’t pretend I’m a QB guru, but 

Sam Darnold QB rating: 

Last : 67.3 . 2nd worse is 72.8

Sam Darnold total QBR:

Last: 36.6 . 2nd worse is 43.6

Not only is Darnold statistically the worst QB in football, he has a few points of separation between him and the next worst guy. Will taking an elite RT at 2 and getting a new coach fix this? Or will we be back looking for a QB in a worse 2022 class next year?

 

Just give him JuJu and his rating will go up 40 points

 

[sec101row23]

2 hours ago, Lith said:

The issue to me is more that the NCAA has forced these kids to come up with reasons so as not to sit out a year.  It seems that they have gotten a lot more liberal in recent years, but if a school is not a fit for a kid, he should be able to transfer.  

I remember the year that Fields transferred out of Gerogia, a tight end for the Dawgs, Luke Ford, also wanted to transfer.  He was from Illinois and wanted to transfer to Univ of IL to be closer to a sick family member.  NCAA denied his waiver and forced him to sit out a year. 

They have gotten more accomodating of transfers in the last year or two, but rules still appear to be arbitrary.  As to Fields, I have no way of knowing if he was or was not the target of rascism.

This coming year is going to be interesting to watch because essentially everyone gets an additional year of eligibility and the can pretty much transfer wherever they want to, assuming the school they are going to has the scholarship available.  It will also be interesting to see if they expand the number of scholarships allowed.   The transfer portal is going to be a busy place this spring.  

[GothamLurker]

 I heard the same things about Mahomes, Lamar, and Watson, but they all turned out great. If NYJ do not take Fields, they will be the Chicago bears of 2021 draft.

 

This QB throws WRs open (hence the game ending int last year in the playoffs), he sees the field, can go to his number 3 read, can throw in small windows. The only flaw in his game, is actually a product of play calling. Long developing plays vs constant blitz, is like adding gas to a fire.

The things said about him, like Dilfer and his guys in the NFL were saying, are false. He does everything people says he can't.

This situation reminds me of Philly. The QB is clearly not working, but many fans have become fans of the QB. So, they want their guy to work. It is not about Fields (because he can't be worse than Darnold.....can't get really get any worse). It is about "Our guy Succeeding."

The top 16 QBRs are players people never expected. Lamar, Watson, Allen, Herbert, Baker, Mahomes

The bottom 16 are guys who were hyped up; Wentz, Cam, Burrow, Goff, Mitch, Darnold.....All bottom 11, but were high picks.

 

 

 

[y2k8]

4 minutes ago, GothamLurker said:

 I heard the same things about Mahomes, Lamar, and Watson, but they all turned out great. If NYJ do not take Fields, they will be the Chicago bears of 2021 draft.

 

This QB throws WRs open (hence the game ending int last year in the playoffs), he sees the field, can go to his number 3 read, can throw in small windows. The only flaw in his game, is actually a product of play calling. Long developing plays vs constant blitz, is like adding gas to a fire.

The things said about him, like Dilfer and his guys in the NFL were saying, are false. He does everything people says he can't.

This situation reminds me of Philly. The QB is clearly not working, but many fans have become fans of the QB. So, they want their guy to work. It is not about Fields (because he can't be worse than Darnold.....can't get really get any worse). It is about "Our guy Succeeding."

The top 16 QBRs are players people never expected. Lamar, Watson, Allen, Herbert, Baker, Mahomes

The bottom 16 are guys who were hyped up; Wentz, Cam, Burrow, Goff, Mitch, Darnold.....All bottom 11, but were high picks.

 

 

 

 

You are conflating not wanting to waste the #2 pick in the NFL draft on a raw QB prospect and irrational support for Sam Darnold.

Anecdotally at least, it seems Jets fans have come to the conclusion that if you can't get this supposedly generational talent in TL then you may as well wait a bit, build up a team and then draft a QB when the offense is at least average,

And since Sam is here, isn't expensive and could use a HC and staff that have a clue, give it a shot with him. Have him compete for the job.

This all sounds rationale to me. Drafting Justin Fields at #2 does not.

 

[GothamLurker]

26 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

 

You are conflating not wanting to waste the #2 pick in the NFL draft on a raw QB prospect and irrational support for Sam Darnold.

Anecdotally at least, it seems Jets fans have come to the conclusion that if you can't get this supposedly generational talent in TL then you may as well wait a bit, build up a team and then draft a QB when the offense is at least average,

And since Sam is here, isn't expensive and could use a HC and staff that have a clue, give it a shot with him. Have him compete for the job.

This all sounds rationale to me. Drafting Justin Fields at #2 does not.

 

Was not Sam suppose to be generational? How did that work out for us?

Trevor has not played an NFL snap. Generational College QB? Sure.

As for Justin, he takes on so much of the offense, the kid would most likely not see anything in the NFL, that he has not already saw. He is great on intermediate and deep passes. His delivery is fairly crisp. He is the most efficient QB in the nation on passes 20 yards or more.

He can work the field. What I mean is this, even if his 1 and 2 are covered, he can work it to his 3rd. To say he is raw is lazy. He takes on so much at OSU. If you are saying he can develop more? Agree 100%. All these QBs can.

 

Sam is raw, in is 2 years in.....lol.

[NYJ1]

Don't forget that smoking crack is bad for you 

[y2k8]

33 minutes ago, GothamLurker said:

Was not Sam suppose to be generational? How did that work out for us?

Trevor has not played an NFL snap. Generational College QB? Sure.

As for Justin, he takes on so much of the offense, the kid would most likely not see anything in the NFL, that he has not already saw. He is great on intermediate and deep passes. His delivery is fairly crisp. He is the most efficient QB in the nation on passes 20 yards or more.

He can work the field. What I mean is this, even if his 1 and 2 are covered, he can work it to his 3rd. To say he is raw is lazy. He takes on so much at OSU. If you are saying he can develop more? Agree 100%. All these QBs can.

 

Sam is raw, in is 2 years in.....lol.

Sam was not considered a "generational talent" - in fact he was selected 3rd.

TL is considered as such - widely - but you are correct - he has not taken a snap in the NFL and could be a bust. He wouldn't be the first #1 QB pick to do so.

As for your assessment of Justin Fields, you sound like an Ohio State homer. His performance on the field this year, it has not been good vs the two decent defenses he faced. He is a raw prospect compared to TL who has started more games and has won a national championship and 3 ACC titles.

Justin Fields may very well be an excellent NFL QB. I just think we'd be nuts to take a flyer on him with the #2 pick. The potential draft capital needs to be deployed elsewhere. 

. 

[GothamLurker]

1 hour ago, y2k8 said:

Sam was not considered a "generational talent" - in fact he was selected 3rd.

TL is considered as such - widely - but you are correct - he has not taken a snap in the NFL and could be a bust. He wouldn't be the first #1 QB pick to do so.

As for your assessment of Justin Fields, you sound like an Ohio State homer. His performance on the field this year, it has not been good vs the two decent defenses he faced. He is a raw prospect compared to TL who has started more games and has won a national championship and 3 ACC titles.

Justin Fields may very well be an excellent NFL QB. I just think we'd be nuts to take a flyer on him with the #2 pick. The potential draft capital needs to be deployed elsewhere. 

. 

https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/20774111

 

"Elway, Luck, Manny....we will view Sam Darnold in that same light..." LOL

Here is the thing about me, I don't speak to hear myself talk. When I speak, I have receipts. You said nobody considered Sam a generational talent, I showed proof of a well known talent prospector saying just that.....

Look man.......I don't care if you like Justin. That is 100% fine with me. I am not someone who gets worked up because folks don't share views of another man I don't even know personally. My thing is this, if you are going to make claims about the guy......You must be able to back it up.

That is all......

 I do jump into debates about when people spew inaccurate info that is not factual. Then, I will chime in. If you say, "I don't like Fields, I think he holds onto the ball too long...." 100% fine with that. This is a factual component of Justin's evaluation tape.

HOWEVER!!!! When you say...."I don't like Justin....He is Raw, throws only to open receivers, etc, etc" I will jump in to correct you because that is factually incorrect.

That is all; not picking a fight....Just saying, you must be able to backup your claims. No prospect is perfect.

(Not saying you said any of these things btw, just speaking generally)

 

[rillo]

No, no he is not. 

 

[Defense Wins Championships]

38 minutes ago, GothamLurker said:

 

Here is the thing about me, I don't speak to hear myself talk. When I speak, I have receipts.

I do jump into debates about when people spew inaccurate info that is not factual. Then, I will chime in. 

Dude. Humble yourself;

you just joined JN a whopping 18 hours ago...

[GothamLurker]

3 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Dude. Humble yourself;

you just joined JN a whopping 18 hours ago...

Joined these forums mere hours ago

Joined football at age 9......26 years ago.

Look, I don't know everything. Otherwise, I would be in the pros. All I am saying is this......You don't have to like a player, but if you spew false info on people, be it Sam or Justin......I will speak on their behalf. I am not here for fights, but the facts.