Pauline- conflicted over Thibo

[hmhertz]

What are the Jets going to do with their two picks?

As far as the Jets are concerned, while chatter grows that Ikem Ekwonu could be the pick at No. 4, those in the league feel the Jets will go defense early and take a pass rusher with their first pick.

Word I’m getting, whether it’s the Jets or other teams in the top 10, is the coaches love Kayvon Thibodeaux, but front office personnel have a lot of concerns. This makes perfect sense and is something I’ve spoken about often in the past, including on that New York Post podcast. The coaches see the film on Thibodeaux, see the potential, and feel they can coach the best out of him. Front office people see the red flags and want to back off.

[T0mShane]

If this is the case, Douglas should ask Saleh and Ulbrich to point out all of the players with character concerns that were turned around by their magnificent coaching. 

[Grandy]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If this is the case, Douglas should ask Saleh and Ulbrich to point out all of the players with character concerns that were turned around by their magnificent coaching. 

I think that people just forgetting that character concerns are the biggest link between busts is scary. 

[Dunnie]

Cannot teach a guy to have a motor either.

[Paradis]

43 minutes ago, hmhertz said:

What are the Jets going to do with their two picks?

As far as the Jets are concerned, while chatter grows that Ikem Ekwonu could be the pick at No. 4, those in the league feel the Jets will go defense early and take a pass rusher with their first pick.

Word I’m getting, whether it’s the Jets or other teams in the top 10, is the coaches love Kayvon Thibodeaux, but front office personnel have a lot of concerns. This makes perfect sense and is something I’ve spoken about often in the past, including on that New York Post podcast. The coaches see the film on Thibodeaux, see the potential, and feel they can coach the best out of him. Front office people see the red flags and want to back off.

This just isn’t true. It’s not the night supervisor at Subway advocating for a new distributor for veggies. It’s a load of sh*t that Tony is peddling. They’re not “deep in the thrall of internal division on a player”… just not how business works in this capacity. 

joe makes the call. Others can lobby, but he’s gonna do what he wants.

 

[Jet Nut]

47 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If this is the case, Douglas should ask Saleh and Ulbrich to point out all of the players with character concerns that were turned around by their magnificent coaching. 

The proof they couldn’t?  
 

[slimjasi]

I still can’t help but feel that the character stuff with thibs is largely overblown.

he was the consensus top pick in November and then Hutchinson had 3 sacks and 15 QB pressures in one game, thibs gave some awkward interviews, and now he’s the 5th worst pass rusher in the draft.

 

I don’t buy it. Meanwhile, he has the quickest first step in the draft and has the athletic profile to be a very good NFL pass rusher. 

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, Paradis said:

This just isn’t true. It’s not the night supervisor at Subway advocating for a new distributor for veggies. It’s a load of sh*t that Tony is peddling. They’re not “deep in the thrall of internal division on a player”… just not how business works in this capacity. 

joe makes the call. Others can lobby, but he’s gonna do what he wants.

 

Pauline has always been a drama Queen

[Jetsfan80]

42 minutes ago, Grandy said:

I think that people just forgetting that character concerns are the biggest link between busts is scary. 

You’re right, but then you also remember that Lawrence Taylor, Ray Lewis, Randy Moss, Dan Marino, Warren Sapp, Michael Irvin, James Harrison, Cam Newton, Micah Parsons, Aqib Talib, Frank Clark, Dez Bryant, and our own Mark Gastineau had character concerns, too, which complicates the analysis.  The Jets famously passed on Marino and Sapp due largely to such concerns.  

On the other end of the spectrum there were also concerns on draft day that D’Brickashaw Ferguson had too many other interests (like playing the saxophone) and lacked the drive to succeed.  

Thus, whenever a super talented player comes along with character concerns, front offices have to dig VERY deep on whether it’s concerns that can be lived with, and whether the infrastructure is in place (coaching, veteran players, behavioral counseling, etc) to keep a player in check should their issues bubble to the surface.  

Its not a good idea to blanket pass on character concern players as if all of them are going to be the next Aaron Hernandez, Justin Blackmon or Pac-Man Jones. Because you’ll end up watching other teams win SBs with character concern guys and wonder where things went wrong.  Every successful NFL team of all time has had at least 1-2 sociopaths on them. 

[slimjasi]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You’re right, but then you also remember that Lawrence Taylor, Ray Lewis, Randy Moss, Dan Marino, Warren Sapp, Michael Irvin, James Harrison, Cam Newton, Micah Parsons, Aqib Talib, Frank Clark, Dez Bryant, and our own Mark Gastineau had character concerns, too, which complicates the analysis.  The Jets famously passed on Marino and Sapp due largely to such concerns.  

On the other end of the spectrum there were also concerns on draft day that D’Brickashaw Ferguson had too many other interests (like playing the saxophone) and lacked the drive to succeed.  

Thus, whenever a super talented player comes along with character concerns, front offices have to dig VERY deep on whether it’s concerns that can be lived with, and whether the infrastructure is in place (coaching, veteran players, behavioral counseling, etc) to keep a player in check should their issues bubble to the surface.  

Its not a good idea to blanket pass on character concern players as if all of them are going to be the next Aaron Hernandez, Justin Blackmon or Pac-Man Jones. Because you’ll end up watching other teams win SBs with character concern guys and wonder where things went wrong.  Every successful NFL team of all time has had at least 1-2 sociopaths on them. 

this 

 

and the thing with thibs to me is - what are his “red flags,” exactly?

it’s not like he failed a drug test. Marino was into the snow.  Every player is different. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

this 

 

and the thing with thibs to me is - what are his “red flags,” exactly?

it’s not like he failed a drug test. Marino was into the snow.  Every player is different. 

And even among cocaine guys, there’s nuance.  Marino and LT:  HOFers.  Doc Gooden:  Not so much beyond ‘85/‘86.

[jago]

if he gets to 6 there will be a bidding war from the 2-pick teams.

[Grandy]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You’re right, but then you also remember that Lawrence Taylor, Ray Lewis, Randy Moss, Dan Marino, Warren Sapp, Michael Irvin, James Harrison, Cam Newton, Micah Parsons, Aqib Talib, Frank Clark, Dez Bryant, and our own Mark Gastineau had character concerns, too, which complicates the analysis.  The Jets famously passed on Marino and Sapp due largely to such concerns.  

On the other end of the spectrum there were also concerns on draft day that D’Brickashaw Ferguson had too many other interests (like playing the saxophone) and lacked the drive to succeed.  

Thus, whenever a super talented player comes along with character concerns, front offices have to dig VERY deep on whether it’s concerns that can be lived with, and whether the infrastructure is in place (coaching, veteran players, behavioral counseling, etc) to keep a player in check should their issues bubble to the surface.  

Its not a good idea to blanket pass on character concern players as if all of them are going to be the next Aaron Hernandez, Justin Blackmon or Pac-Man Jones. Because you’ll end up watching other teams win SBs with character concern guys and wonder where things went wrong.  Every successful NFL team of all time has had at least 1-2 sociopaths on them. 

Yeah you just can't know how it'll play out because we don't have the inside info. It seems like the character flaw that's the biggest bust link is lack of effort. Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell busted in extreme fashion due to them dogging it in the NFL. A guy being a little wild and having a big ego is fine as long as he still puts the work in.

Bottom line is we better know exactly what we're getting into, and be able to get the most out of it. If there are any issues let's hope they're fixable. 

[Dunnie]

this 
 
and the thing with thibs to me is - what are his “red flags,” exactly?
it’s not like he failed a drug test. Marino was into the snow.  Every player is different. 

I think its somewhat the "I have arrived and am above the game attitude" when he really has not played at that level.

This guys has potential to he a beast ... but do you trust he will be ?

[slimjasi]

6 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I think its somewhat the "I have arrived and am above the game attitude" when he really has not played at that level.

This guys has potential to he a beast ... but do you trust he will be ?

Do I trust he will be? No.

 

But I think he has the potential to be and I think this regime needs to swing for the fences or they won’t be here that much longer 

[slimjasi]

9 minutes ago, jago said:

if he gets to 6 there will be a bidding war from the 2-pick teams.

He’s not getting to six, IMO 

[genot]

The guy had a chance to play for Alabama, but went, instead to Oregon, because of their affliation with Nike. That alone raises red flags. 

[Jet_Engine1]

Jadeveon Clowney had a great Sophmore Season, made a highlight tackle in a bowl game, and kinda just stopped playing for a year after that and mailed in his last season at SC, and still went #1 overall.

 

Who the hell knows...

[Charlie Brown]

29 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And even among cocaine guys, there’s nuance.  Marino and LT:  HOFers.  Doc Gooden:  Not so much beyond ‘85/‘86.

Thank you!!

I was going to post something like this, fact….

LT was a walking character concern and he was perhaps the best NFL player ever to walk the planet, so folks need to just stop it!!

[Scoop24]

7 minutes ago, genot said:

The guy had a chance to play for Alabama, but went, instead to Oregon, because of their affliation with Nike. That alone raises red flags. 

Alot players go to Oregon for this reason its the best recruiting advantage they have.. . They have some of best facilities in the Country.. there called Nike U for a reason.

[JohnnyLV]

Personally I think the Jets interest in edge at 4 is a complete smokescreen. We will take Icky or Gardner. The "luxury pick" comment by Douglas says a ton. Both OT and corner would be considered luxury picks, EDGE would not

Jets will take EDGE in the second round someone like Ebiitike

[slimjasi]

10 minutes ago, genot said:

The guy had a chance to play for Alabama, but went, instead to Oregon, because of their affliation with Nike. That alone raises red flags. 

I sort of hate this attitude 

why does everyone have to fall in line and go to Alabama? 
 

I like that some people choose the other path 

[Scoop24]

Just now, johnnysd said:

Personally I think the Jets interest in edge at 4 is a complete smokescreen. We will take Icky or Gardner. The "luxury pick" comment by Douglas says a ton. Both OT and corner would be considered luxury picks, EDGE would not

Jets will take EDGE in the second round someone like Ebiitike

Icky going 3.. 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

Personally I think the Jets interest in edge at 4 is a complete smokescreen. We will take Icky or Gardner. The "luxury pick" comment by Douglas says a ton. Both OT and corner would be considered luxury picks, EDGE would not

Jets will take EDGE in the second round someone like Ebiitike

This regime isn’t taking a corner top 4. The coach needs an edge for his system. Saleh and douglas talk about this all the time. 
 

one of the first two picks will be edge 

[genot]

3 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

Alot players go to Oregon for this reason its the best recruiting advantage they have.. . They have some of best facilities in the Country.. there called Nike U for a reason.

If you have ambitions to play in the NFL,and get challenged getting there. Alabama is the school to sign with. How many good defensive players has Oregon developed. 

[genot]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I sort of hate this attitude 

why does everyone have to fall in line and go to Alabama? 
 

I like that some people choose the other path 

Because of the competition. It prepares you for playing at the next level. The proof is the amount of defensive players drafted into the NFL,from Alabama compared to Oregon. 

[Scoop24]

2 minutes ago, genot said:

If you have ambitions to play in the NFL,and get challenged getting there. Alabama is the school to sign with. How many good defensive players has Oregon developed. 

Its not exactly surprising a kid from west coast decided to go to school on the west coast.  Instead of alabama.. 

[Jetsfan80]

18 minutes ago, genot said:

The guy had a chance to play for Alabama, but went, instead to Oregon, because of their affliation with Nike. That alone raises red flags. 

 

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I sort of hate this attitude 

why does everyone have to fall in line and go to Alabama? 
 

I like that some people choose the other path 

Exactly.  Why be a face in the crowd at Bama/SEC when you can be a superstar at Oregon instead? 

Plus he’s a California kid.  Who can blame him for wanting to stay on the west coast? 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, genot said:

Because of the competition. It prepares you for playing at the next level. The proof is the amount of defensive players drafted into the NFL,from Alabama compared to Oregon. 

It’s a reach my man.  It’s the kind of thing people come up with to talk themselves out of a prospect they already dislike for other reasons. 

[Larz]

Thibs is talented, but there are concerns, and the Jets might draft him, might not ?

Yeah, this draft was officially 2 weeks late this year lol

[Larz]

25 minutes ago, genot said:

The guy had a chance to play for Alabama, but went, instead to Oregon, because of their affliation with Nike. That alone raises red flags. 

He understood the physical risk of playing football, and decided to have an plan for a career if football didn’t work out?

what is the red flag ?   

[Scoop24]

14 minutes ago, genot said:

If you have ambitions to play in the NFL,and get challenged getting there. Alabama is the school to sign with. How many good defensive players has Oregon developed. 

Arik Armstead and deforest Buckner both played at Oregon. And there both elite NFL DL

[JohnnyLV]

11 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

This regime isn’t taking a corner top 4. The coach needs an edge for his system. Saleh and douglas talk about this all the time. 
 

one of the first two picks will be edge 

Well like I said JD has discussed taking a pick that would not seem like a prime need and in my mind that could be 3 things:

OT Gardner Hamilton

I personally think Gardner is the best player in the draft and whether or not our defense stresses CB or not, having a shut down corner still has a big effect.

I think the Jets go EDGE in round 2 but we will see.

 

[genot]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Exactly.  Why be a face in the crowd at Bama/SEC when you can be a superstar at Oregon instead? 

Plus he’s a California kid.  Who can blame him for wanting to stay on the west coast? 

Ah. But he wasn't a superstar at Oregon. His production was mediocre. What does that tell us. Either he isn't the football player he's cracked up to be. Or, football is just a way to get his foot in door, regarding other ventures. I'm not saying this as fact. All I'm saying is that drafting him at the top of the 1st rd, is too risky.For a number of reasons.

[genot]

7 minutes ago, Larz said:

He understood the physical risk of playing football, and decided to have an plan for a career if football didn’t work out?

what is the red flag ?   

You can't draft a guy that high, who you don't feel is entirely committed to football. Look at Wilkerson. He could have been a great player. Just was lazy, and didn't put the work in