Baker traded to Carolina

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Who else was on the roster (and Coaching) when he went 19-13 and 18-23.

I'd place more on that than on Brunell.

Not Tebow, I can tell you that much!

[PorP]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Baker > Sam > Zach

At least until Zach proves, on the field, that this is no longer the case.

We're all hoping he does that this year, but it's still an "if" as of today.

Did you quote a post about baker inheriting a great team..... that has nothing to do with Zach..... for the sake of throwing a petty little dagger at Zach..

Christ.... like that was your only option. 

[Warfish]

22 minutes ago, PorP said:

Did you quote a post about baker inheriting a great team..... that has nothing to do with Zach..... for the sake of throwing a petty little dagger at Zach..

Christ.... like that was your only option. 

Nothing "petty" about it. 

It's just the objective truth, so far.  Our QB, so far, is worse than the two guys everyone here keeps saying "sucks" and/or is a "bust".

As the old saying goes, don't worry about them, worry about us.  

[PorP]

31 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Nothing "petty" about it. 

It's just the objective truth, so far.  Our QB, so far, is worse than the two guys everyone here keeps saying "sucks" and/or is a "bust".

As the old saying goes, don't worry about them, worry about us.  

The concern is valid ... the fact it is in every thread on this board regardless of topic is petty...

Not accusing you of putting it in every thread or personally being petty,  just the comment......

 but

Becton is fat... but Zach sucks

Zach is a gigolo... but he sucks

Hall is great... but Zach sucks

Etc 

Etc.

[CSNY]

5 hours ago, Warfish said:

Baker > Sam > Zach

At least until Zach proves, on the field, that this is no longer the case.

We're all hoping he does that this year, but it's still an "if" as of today.

How can it be that Sam is better than Zach?  Darnold is starting his fourth year in the league Zach has played but 13 games Darnold is in a competition for the starting QB spot and basically fighting for his NFL career  We all don’t know what Zach will turn out to be but at this point let’s give him a full season with what appears to be a far more talented offense before we make any proclamation that he is a bust. 

[Warfish]

47 minutes ago, PorP said:

The concern is valid ... the fact it is in every thread on this board regardless of topic is petty...

The topic is Quarterbacks, specifically one of our old QB's.

In this thread (and in any thread with Darnold nowadays, lol), the word "sucks" gets used alot.

Same goes for Mayfield, a guy many us of liked coming out.

Referencing these "sucky" QB's against our own current QB in a thread about QB's is hardly off topic.

Zach is going to be in every thread because Zach is, hands down, our biggest single question mark and our single most vital player for future success.  He is literally all that there is right now.  Hall, Wilson, Ruckert, the other new TE's, all of them won't produce if Zach doesn't improve materially.  So aye, he's gonna sprout up in every topic even tangentially related to QB or QB play.

47 minutes ago, PorP said:

Not accusing you of putting it in every thread or personally being petty,  just the comment......

 but

Becton is fat... but Zach sucks

Zach is a gigolo... but he sucks

Hall is great... but Zach sucks

Etc 

Etc.

Yup.  Par for the course.  It's only gonna get worse as we proceed into actual Zach play, and the massive over-reactions and over-analysis that will come with.  

 

[jgb]

7 hours ago, Warfish said:

If we're thinking of starting Clipboard Check-casher Flacco, should just bring back The Clown McCown instead. 

Or better yet, the beloved corpse of Vinny Testeverde.  At least we all loved him.

 

 

Should’ve traded that pick for Minshew instead of Flacco.

[jgb]

4 hours ago, CSNY said:

How can it be that Sam is better than Zach?  Darnold is starting his fourth year in the league Zach has played but 13 games Darnold is in a competition for the starting QB spot and basically fighting for his NFL career  We all don’t know what Zach will turn out to be but at this point let’s give him a full season with what appears to be a far more talented offense before we make any proclamation that he is a bust. 

Because if you need to win one game, right now, almost everyone (with the exception of Jets fans, perhaps) would hold their nose and pick Darnold over our QB. That can and hopefully does change shortly.

[CSNY]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Because if you need to win one game, right now, almost everyone (with the exception of Jets fans, perhaps) would hold their nose and pick Darnold over our QB. That can and hopefully does change shortly.

Given the body of work that Darnold has I doubt very much that teams will be picking him over Wilson . As of now Darnold is very close to being a career back up at best and out of the league at worst and it truly looks the latter being the case. 

[jgb]

11 minutes ago, CSNY said:

Given the body of work that Darnold has I doubt very much that teams will be picking him over Wilson . As of now Darnold is very close to being a career back up at best and out of the league at worst and it truly looks the latter being the case. 

In case it wasn’t clear I’m not talking about who would teams rather have on their roster but rather if you needed to win a game today, I stand by my assertion that a substantial majority would choose Darnold.

[CSNY]

12 minutes ago, jgb said:

In case it wasn’t clear I’m not talking about who would teams rather have on their roster but rather if you needed to win a game today, I stand by my assertion that a substantial majority would choose Darnold.

Disagree. I Would take Wilson over Darnold all day every day and this coming from a person who thought Sam should be retained and given more talent around him might turn into a viable QB but after his performance last year not a chance I take him over Zach even for one game Darnold is just awful 

[jgb]

21 minutes ago, CSNY said:

Disagree. I Would take Wilson over Darnold all day every day and this coming from a person who thought Sam should be retained and given more talent around him might turn into a viable QB but after his performance last year not a chance I take him over Zach even for one game Darnold is just awful 

My comment was about what I believe the majority would do. You say you disagree but then say what you would do. Not disputing that. I also did acknowledge  Jets fans were a possible exception.

[CSNY]

15 minutes ago, jgb said:

My comment was about what I believe the majority would do. You say you disagree but then say what you would do. Not disputing that. I also did acknowledge  Jets fans were a possible exception.

And your point is?

[jgb]

6 hours ago, CSNY said:

And your point is?

You asked why someone would list Darnold as better than Zach. I gave you an explanation.

[CSNY]

35 minutes ago, jgb said:

You asked why someone would list Darnold as better than Zach. I gave you an explanation.

And you think that the majority would take Darnold and I disagree that majority wouldn’t as most know what Darnold is which is a pretty lousy NFL QB and even for one game I believe most would not take him over Zach. 

[jgb]

29 minutes ago, CSNY said:

And you think that the majority would take Darnold and I disagree that majority wouldn’t as most know what Darnold is which is a pretty lousy NFL QB and even for one game I believe most would not take him over Zach. 

Ok, well it’s cool to disagree on that. But that’s why some say Darnold is as of now, better. @Warfish acknowledged he believes this “until proven otherwise.” Sadly Darnold’s performance on a per-game basis (all available metrics, both career and comparing only their rookie seasons) is superior.

I think we agree that hopefully after a few games this season, no one anywhere could see Darnold as a better option under any circumstances.

[CSNY]

18 minutes ago, jgb said:

Ok, well it’s cool to disagree on that. But that’s why some say Darnold is as of now, better. @Warfish acknowledged he believes this “until proven otherwise.” Sadly Darnold’s performance on a per-game basis (all available metrics, both career and comparing only their rookie seasons) is superior.

I think we agree that hopefully after a few games this season, no one anywhere could see Darnold as a better option under any circumstances.

In his rookie year Darnold and the Jets played one of the easiest schedules in the league (if I recall correctly only the WFT team had an easier one) where as last year Zach and the Jets played a harder schedule (ranked middle of the road like 16 or 17 hardest) so comparing the two based on rookie schedules is really not telling entire story that is why I don’t put much stock solely on numbers. Let’s not forget that Darnold lost to not one but two winless teams over the course of his rookie season. Granted it’s not just Darnold fault as it’s not only Zachs fault az it is a team game As it has been well documented and discussed Zach was constantly playing from behind as the Jets defense was just absolutely putrid which put additional pressure on him and the offense where the opponents knew the Jets had to pass and just teed off to rush the passer forsaking all run defensive commitments. 
People can just look at numbers and say this one better than that one but again all circumstances are different that’s why I do believe that given the choice to win one game right now Zach would be the choice of many 

Agree that hopefully Zachs performance after this year will erase all doubt and we all can put this discussion to bed 

[PorP]

13 hours ago, Warfish said:

The topic is Quarterbacks, specifically one of our old QB's.

In this thread (and in any thread with Darnold nowadays, lol), the word "sucks" gets used alot.

Same goes for Mayfield, a guy many us of liked coming out.

Referencing these "sucky" QB's against our own current QB in a thread about QB's is hardly off topic.

Zach is going to be in every thread because Zach is, hands down, our biggest single question mark and our single most vital player for future success.  He is literally all that there is right now.  Hall, Wilson, Ruckert, the other new TE's, all of them won't produce if Zach doesn't improve materially.  So aye, he's gonna sprout up in every topic even tangentially related to QB or QB play.

Yup.  Par for the course.  It's only gonna get worse as we proceed into actual Zach play, and the massive over-reactions and over-analysis that will come with.  

 

Your rationale for it not being off topic is a bit mind boggling..... to quote Billy Madison. Everyone in the room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul. 

Let's agree to disagree. 

On your second part of the post.  I know you're right.  Looking very forward to TC and if Zach does good the constant barrage of "doesn't matter unless he does it in a game"

If he does bad same exact people no longer need to see a game... "see I told you he was crap"

[jgb]

29 minutes ago, CSNY said:

In his rookie year Darnold and the Jets played one of the easiest schedules in the league (if I recall correctly only the WFT team had an easier one) where as last year Zach and the Jets played a harder schedule (ranked middle of the road like 16 or 17 hardest) so comparing the two based on rookie schedules is really not telling entire story that is why I don’t put much stock solely on numbers. Let’s not forget that Darnold lost to not one but two winless teams over the course of his rookie season. Granted it’s not just Darnold fault as it’s not only Zachs fault az it is a team game As it has been well documented and discussed Zach was constantly playing from behind as the Jets defense was just absolutely putrid which put additional pressure on him and the offense where the opponents knew the Jets had to pass and just teed off to rush the passer forsaking all run defensive commitments. 
People can just look at numbers and say this one better than that one but again all circumstances are different that’s why I do believe that given the choice to win one game right now Zach would be the choice of many 

Agree that hopefully Zachs performance after this year will erase all doubt and we all can put this discussion to bed 

I understand and respect your opinion on this but let me remind you that I was responding to your question: “How can it be that Sam is better than Zach?” Just reciting why some may think this way.

 

[PorP]

8 hours ago, jgb said:

My comment was about what I believe the majority would do. You say you disagree but then say what you would do. Not disputing that. I also did acknowledge  Jets fans were a possible exception.

I won't weigh in on darnold because I'm biased against him. 

But claiming the majority would go darnold and its a jets fan base problem is a bit spirited I think. 

In Sam's 4 yr body of work he has proven he can win less than 1 game out of every 3, he completed sub 60% and he is equally as likely to throw a td as an int.

Whether ALL fans pick a rookie who had a bad year and bet on a jump or a guy who is proven to win 32% of the time .... to win 1 game is much more of a coin toss than you're thinking. 

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, PorP said:

I won't weigh in on darnold because I'm biased against him. 

As am I. Have thought he sucked before it was accepted fact.

9 minutes ago, PorP said:

But claiming the majority would go darnold and its a jets fan base problem is a bit spirited I think. 

 

It’s an unemotional weighing of both guys’ performance. No more, no less. And Jets fans are notorious in rallying around the QB no matter how bad he is on the field. Compare: Bears fans wanted to chuck Trubisky one year removed from a Pro Bowl appearance.

9 minutes ago, PorP said:

In Sam's 4 yr body of work he has proven he can win less than 1 game out of every 3, he completed sub 60% and he is equally as likely to throw a td as an int.

Again, I wouldn’t take Darnold on my roster over our current QB. Darnold is proven suck and jury is out on ours. But if I needed to choose between them to win a game today? Darnold in a landslide. I refer again that I was one of the earliest here on the “dump Darnold” train.

9 minutes ago, PorP said:

Whether ALL fans pick a rookie who had a bad year and bet on a jump or a guy who is proven to win 32% of the time .... to win 1 game is much more of a coin toss than you're thinking. 

What is our QB’s win percentage? 23%. This is not the strongest argument for your position.

[CSNY]

15 minutes ago, jgb said:

I understand and respect your opinion on this but let me remind you that I was responding to your question: “How can it be that Sam is better than Zach?” Just reciting why some may think this way.

 

And just giving my opinion why I disagree 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, CSNY said:

And just giving my opinion why I disagree 

I’m politely saying that I’m not looking for a debate; only answering your original question  

[PorP]

Just now, jgb said:

As am I. Have thought he sucked before it was accepted fact.

It’s an unemotional weighing of both guys’ performance. No more, no less. And Jets fans are notorious in rallying around the QB no matter how bad he is on the field. Compare; Bears fans wanted to chuck Trubisky one year removed from a Pro Bowl appearance.

Again, I wouldn’t take Darnold on my roster over our current QB. Darnold is proven suck and jury is out on ours. But if I needed to choose between them to win a game today? Darnold in a landslide. I refer again that I was one of the earliest here on the “dump Darnold” train.

What is our QB’s win percentage? 23%. This is not the strongest argument for your position

All I'm trying to point out to you is when presented 2 bad options. People are as likely to go either way. 

And the options are 23% + a sending year jump (whatever that ends up meaning)  or a guaranteed 32%.

Whether people gamble on the jump or take 32% in the hand is equally as likely to me. There are plenty of people betting SB and MVP  that should indicate people are willing to gamble

I was clear in the first line I wasn't going to weigh in on who i'd pick because of my biased. 

[PorP]

12 minutes ago, jgb said:

As am I. Have thought he sucked before it was accepted fact.

It’s an unemotional weighing of both guys’ performance. No more, no less. And Jets fans are notorious in rallying around the QB no matter how bad he is on the field. Compare; Bears fans wanted to chuck Trubisky one year removed from a Pro Bowl appearance.

Again, I wouldn’t take Darnold on my roster over our current QB. Darnold is proven suck and jury is out on ours. But if I needed to choose between them to win a game today? Darnold in a landslide. I refer again that I was one of the earliest here on the “dump Darnold” train.

What is our QB’s win percentage? 23%. This is not the strongest argument for your position.

And I'm with you in length,  I didn't want darnold in the draft to be honest... or geno or Sanchez

[CSNY]

13 minutes ago, jgb said:

I’m politely saying that I’m not looking for a debate; only answering your original question  

And I am not looking for debate just giving reasons for my opinion ?

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, PorP said:

And I'm with you in length,  I didn't want darnold in the draft to be honest... or geno or Sanchez

I thought Macc was a blind squirrel finding a nut with Darnold. I thought we got the guy. ?‍♂️ 
 

It’s funny so many accused me of pushing the Darnold sucks narrative because I only cared about being right on a messageboard… when I was pro-Darnold at the start… I ruthlessly change my opinion as data accrues.

[Biggs]

14 hours ago, PorP said:

The concern is valid ... the fact it is in every thread on this board regardless of topic is petty...

Not accusing you of putting it in every thread or personally being petty,  just the comment......

 but

Becton is fat... but Zach sucks

Zach is a gigolo... but he sucks

Hall is great... but Zach sucks

Etc 

Etc.

I disagree.  Zach sucked last year as an NFL QB is actual an optimistic take on the future.  Sucked doesn't imply still sucks or will suck forever.  It's just the reality of last years play.   When I say Zach sucked, I mean Zach sucked.  Not that he will continue to suck.  That's to be determined. 

Becton was fat and looked slow in camp last year.  He was bitched by all reports by Lawson.  Lawson who's shown some potential in the NFL has 20 sacks in 51 games played.  He's not Lawrence Taylor.   Becton, unlike Zach was very good in his rookie year.  He also seemed to tap out of a few games and plays.  That might be harsh but it appeared that way.   Hope he comes to play and is in great shape.  I'm willing to fat shame him in the hope that it motivates him.  The BIg Bust shirt seems to confirm that he is taking the fat shaming positively.  Unless you're in the camp that he literally believes he's a Big Bust.  I don't think that's the case.  He seems to have turned it into a positive.  Again to be determined by actual results on the field.  

Zach is a gigolo is a very positive take on Zach.  It implies mucho MOJO.  What elite NFL QB doesn't have mucho MOJO.  My guess Kirk Cousins doesn't have it which is why he really isn't an elite QB.  Kirk Cousins isn't banging his mom's BFF any  time soon.  He's also not going to the SB any time soon.  

[PorP]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

I thought Macc was a blind squirrel finding a nut with Darnold. I thought we got the guy. ?‍♂️ 
 

It’s funny so many accused me of pushing the Darnold sucks narrative because I only cared about being right on a messageboard… when I was pro-Darnold at the start… I ruthlessly change my opinion as data accrues.

I don't know how your progression went on darnold but mine was something like...

Yr1, yup,  pretty much who I thought you were

Yr2, nice jump,  wish he was better with int's but maybe I'm wrong on him

Yr3, there you are cute little fella. I knew you were hiding in there somewhere. 

[PorP]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I disagree.  Zach sucked last year as an NFL QB is actual an optimistic take on the future.  Sucked doesn't imply still sucks or will suck forever.  It's just the reality of last years play.   When I say Zach sucked, I mean Zach sucked.  Not that he will continue to suck.  That's to be determined. 

Becton was fat and looked slow in camp last year.  He was bitched by all reports by Lawson.  Lawson who's shown some potential in the NFL has 20 sacks in 51 games played.  He's not Lawrence Taylor.   Becton, unlike Zach was very good in his rookie year.  He also seemed to tap out of a few games and plays.  That might be harsh but it appeared that way.   Hope he comes to play and is in great shape.  I'm willing to fat shame him in the hope that it motivates him.  The BIg Bust shirt seems to confirm that he is taking the fat shaming positively.  Unless you're in the camp that he literally believes he's a Big Bust.  I don't think that's the case.  He seems to have turned it into a positive.  Again to be determined by actual results on the field.  

Zach is a gigolo is a very positive take on Zach.  It implies mucho MOJO.  What elite NFL QB doesn't have mucho MOJO.  My guess Kirk Cousins doesn't have it which is why he really isn't an elite QB.  Kirk Cousins isn't banging his mom's BFF any  time soon.  He's also not going to the SB any time soon.  

What!?!?!?!???

When the statement is sucked and I need to see better....

You can disagree all you want but that statement says sucked and still sucks until I see improvement. 

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, PorP said:

What!?!?!?!???

When the statement is sucked and I need to see better....

You can disagree all you want but that statement says sucked and still sucks until I see improvement. 

Extreme optimism.  What more do you want?

[The Crusher]

10 hours ago, jgb said:

Should’ve traded that pick for Minshew instead of Flacco.

The object isn’t to find a QB who will be somewhat better then the one we got. The goal is to find a QB that can lead us to a championship. Minshew and  Zach will both retire with the same number of Super Bowl wins. None. 

[PorP]

Just now, Biggs said:

Extreme optimism.  What more do you want?

I don't want anything except Zach not to suck in every single thread lol. 

If he could just suck in the threads that are about him sucking... that would be super ?

[CSNY]

3 minutes ago, PorP said:

I don't want anything except Zach not to suck in every single thread lol. 

If he could just suck in the threads that are about him sucking... that would be super ?

Very true. If it’s not Zach sucks it Becton is lazy , fat , out of shape etc. etc.  Season can’t start soon enough 

[The Crusher]

10 minutes ago, PorP said:

I don't want anything except Zach not to suck in every single thread lol. 

If he could just suck in the threads that are about him sucking... that would be super ?

I miss the Zach is a Milf Magnet days.