Zach Continues to Improve - PLAJ

[jgb]

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Bust talk aside:  Him being one injury away from putting a QB who is a "long way to go to be average" under center seems like a topic of discussion, no?

It’s just a way for them to try to shut down criticism while appearing measured. We know this.

[Xtina]

He is learning but it’s like he has never played this game till now. He thinks too much before he throws, he has no automatic muscle memory in there. Physical talent but nothing else. 

[Jetkwondo]

18 minutes ago, doitny said:

the narrative from the Zach fan club is that he will take over in 2 years. thats 2 years sitting on the bench and not playing. im not sure how much of that 2 years experience he is going to remember. in fact it might be best it he forgot those 2 years cause almost all of it was bad. it would almost be like starting new which will put him and Love on the same level. 

you might be right about him liking Zach better but that brings up the whole thing we use to say about Milf only calling the good plays for Mike White. Rodgers had to teach things to Love in those 4 years. but what? he didnt teach him everything but now for Zach he is opening up the vault of all his knowledge? i dont buy that. especially when Love is your backup and you dont want him not prepared to be the best so he could win a game or 2 if Rodgers got injured. 

im guessing thats what all QBs at the end of their career do to their young backups who they are grooming to replace them. 

 

I don't think Rogers withheld anything from Love I just think Love being brought in to replace Rodgers created a different dynamic then Rodgers being brought in to replace Zack. One case Rodgers is protecting his job and leaving it up to Love to come to him if he needs help, otherwise he expects Love to just watch, take notes and learn and the other is Rogers taking Zacks job but immediately extending all his knowledge, tips, and tendencies to the neutered Zack who isn't any threat to him and who Rogers also sees that he's lacking maturity issues which he thinks he can help with.

So, Love he saw as having to do what he had to do his 3 years waiting behind Farve while Zack , who shares similar natural talents, is his reclamation project that will only add to his legacy if he can win a Lombardi or 2 while getting Zack thinking like him before he retires.

[Hal]

7 hours ago, jgb said:

Of course they did. Which is why I will only do charity bets with QB sycophants. Too much effort to chasing them down to pay and then I can point out they are screwing over a charity by their ridiculous behavior. We al know they would never pay "the big ole meanie whose bad vibes ruined the QB." 

That top 16 was for 2022, no?  I think you already lost.

Ever on the Jets.   For the love boon mark it if you aren’t kidding lol. 

[jgb]

53 minutes ago, Hal said:

Ever on the Jets.   For the love boon mark it if you aren’t kidding lol. 

Ah yeah I remember that now. Remind me when I win, thanks. 

[rtnelson]

10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So you acknowledge he went through all of his collegiate career and 2 years in the pros without realizing he needs to stop twirling around with his back to the defense?  FFS.  Why on earth did we draft this guy # 2.  

I guess it was MLF's fault he was doing this at BYU, too.

I honestly believe we can believe he had next to zero coaching.  They brought in John Beck for half a season.  So has he sucked?  Yes.  Who did well?  A 4 year vet backup who has already seen coaching Mike White.

I don't think MLF's offense actually sucked.  I truly believe he just had zero skill in coaching Zach.

Can AR and Hackett clean up the dumpster fire left behind with proper coaching is the question.  I truly believe that treating him as a rookie is generally accurate.  He is still young and played a few years of NFL ball with terrible QB coaching and got drafted by AR.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Xtina said:

He is learning but it’s like he has never played this game till now. He thinks too much before he throws, he has no automatic muscle memory in there. Physical talent but nothing else. 

He has no feel for the game. That's very difficult to teach.

[TBJ]

On 9/2/2023 at 1:09 PM, Spoot-Face said:

In other news, some new pics of the Loch Ness Monster just dropped.

We're so close to finally having proof.

It's a bump on a log. Big improvement from a knot on a stick though.

[Jetsfan80]

6 hours ago, rtnelson said:

I honestly believe we can believe he had next to zero coaching.  They brought in John Beck for half a season.  So has he sucked?  Yes.  Who did well?  A 4 year vet backup who has already seen coaching Mike White.

I don't think MLF's offense actually sucked.  I truly believe he just had zero skill in coaching Zach.

Can AR and Hackett clean up the dumpster fire left behind with proper coaching is the question.  I truly believe that treating him as a rookie is generally accurate.  He is still young and played a few years of NFL ball with terrible QB coaching and got drafted by AR.

It’s not an OC’s primary duty to teach a young QB the basics.  He needed to arrive with at least SOME of those otherwise you don’t draft him # 2 and then hand him the QB1 job unopposed. 

Hell, Shanahan is one of the top 3 or so offensive minds in the game and he could do very little with Trey Lance.  That should tell you a lot about the limitations of GOOD offensive coaching.  

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It’s not an OC’s primary duty to teach a young QB the basics.  He needed to arrive with at least SOME of those otherwise you don’t draft him # 2 and then hand him the QB1 job unopposed. 

By definition instincts can't be taught. 

 

[Dunnie]

16 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Forgetting everything else—the talent, the level of competition, the athletic testing, etc—what I want to know is how Douglas talked to Zach for five minutes and concluded that this preemie-ass Utahn effete sheltered goober twink mush ponce was ever going to make it in the NY/NJ metro area. If I lived in midtown and Zach was my cousin, I wouldn’t even let him come to NYC as a tourist because he’d end up getting fleeced by one of those double-decker bus scam artists outside Grand Central. 

.... because there was any indication at all that the scouting department didn't do any due diligence beyond a five minute conversation... How the heck was this guy hired as a GM ...

 

Gimme a break with this crap.

[Dunnie]

By definition instincts can't be taught. 
 

Good thing Zach has great instincts and just needs to hone his skills and understanding of the pro game.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[T0mShane]

53 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

.... because there was any indication at all that the scouting department didn't do any due diligence beyond a five minute conversation... How the heck was this guy hired as a GM ...

 

Gimme a break with this crap.

They didn’t meet with him in person until the Pro Day. Because of Covid, everything prior was done over Zoom. Wilson’s issues with leadership as a prospect were pretty well chronicled, and those issues bore out here last season. I don’t know, but I think if Douglas and Saleh had the opportunity to sit in a room with the kid and get a feel not only for how he carries himself, but also for his diminutive physical stature, they may have run for the hills. Say what you want about his talent, but you can’t tell me that Zach Wilson has ever impressed you as a cornerstone, face of the franchise dude

[Dunnie]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

They didn’t meet with him in person until the Pro Day. Because of Covid, everything prior was done over Zoom. Wilson’s issues with leadership as a prospect were pretty well chronicled, and those issues bore out here last season. I don’t know, but I think if Douglas and Saleh had the opportunity to sit in a room with the kid and get a feel not only for how he carries himself they may have run for the hills. Say what you want about his talent, but you can’t tell me that Zach Wilson has ever impressed you as a cornerstone, face of the franchise dude

I always thought he came across as a young kid that would mature into the role ... Good physical traits ... Room to grow... Intelligent ... Pretty well spoken ... No false bravado ... Just epic arm talent and athletic ability ready to be honed.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Dunnie

[jgb]

20 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Good thing Zach has great instincts and just needs to hone his skills and understanding of the pro game.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

[Jetkwondo]

4 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I always thought he came across as a young kid that would mature into the role ... Good physical traits ... Room to grow... Intelligent ... Pretty well spoken ... No false bravado ... Just epic arm talent ready to be honed.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

 When asked about Zack last year during his melt down Rodgers said bluntly that he had maturity issues.  Not, he needs to fix this or that.

I also don't see any living hell going on just respectful learning which right there shows basic maturity...

[T0mShane]

34 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I always thought he came across as a young kid that would mature into the role ... Good physical traits ... Room to grow... Intelligent ... Pretty well spoken ... No false bravado ... Just epic arm talent and athletic ability ready to be honed.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

I think it’s possible that he can grow into a leadership role, but I don’t think he’ll be able to do that here, with the same group in the locker room that watched him get handed the world and melted down anyway. Homeboy was blaming the wind for his poor performance last year. Hard to come back from that. 

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It’s not an OC’s primary duty to teach a young QB the basics.  He needed to arrive with at least SOME of those otherwise you don’t draft him # 2 and then hand him the QB1 job unopposed. 

Hell, Shanahan is one of the top 3 or so offensive minds in the game and he could do very little with Trey Lance.  That should tell you a lot about the limitations of GOOD offensive coaching.  

Being one of the three brightest offensive minds in the game has that advantage. You yell NEXT everyone else listens.

[jgb]

22 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think it’s possible that he can grow into a leadership role, but I don’t think he’ll be able to do that here, with the same group in the locker room that watched him get handed the world and melted down anyway. Homeboy was blaming the wind for his poor performance last year. Hard to come back from that. 

There has never been a guy who was a terrible 2-year starter who became a decent starter for the team that drafted him. When these (rare) turnarounds happen, they've always been for other teams many years after the initial bad play. Makes sense when the issue is maturity. That takes times.

[Kleckineau]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

.... because there was any indication at all that the scouting department didn't do any due diligence beyond a five minute conversation... How the heck was this guy hired as a GM ...

 

Gimme a break with this crap.

 

58 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I always thought he came across as a young kid that would mature into the role ... Good physical traits ... Room to grow... Intelligent ... Pretty well spoken ... No false bravado ... Just epic arm talent and athletic ability ready to be honed.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

How do you slaughter the GM for the pick and in the next breath fawn over the player??

[Matt39]

25 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think it’s possible that he can grow into a leadership role, but I don’t think he’ll be able to do that here, with the same group in the locker room that watched him get handed the world and melted down anyway. Homeboy was blaming the wind for his poor performance last year. Hard to come back from that. 

Growing into a leadership role would have to happen in San Francisco. 

[T0mShane]

21 minutes ago, jgb said:

There has never been a guy who was a terrible 2-year starter who became a decent starter for the team that drafted him. When these (rare) turnarounds happen, they've always been for other teams many years after the initial bad play. Makes sense when the issue is maturity. That takes times.

It’s like when a company has to demote a middle manager—you can’t just demote him and keep him at the same branch. You transfer him a few districts away because you can’t recover from falling on your face that hard in front of the people you need to lead. 

[T0mShane]

20 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Growing into a leadership role would have to happen in San Francisco. 

Arizona—>Philadelphia—>Pac 12 Network

[PorP]

17 hours ago, jgb said:

Of course they did. Which is why I will only do charity bets with QB sycophants. Too much effort to chasing them down to pay and then I can point out they are screwing over a charity by their ridiculous behavior. We al know they would never pay "the big ole meanie whose bad vibes ruined the QB." 

That top 16 was for 2022, no?  I think you already lost.

I don't think you know what sycophant means or how to properly use it in a sentence. 

[Joe W. Namath]

The most anticipated jets season of all time is almost here and the #1 thread on this board is a bash zach thread.

The disease……….

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Being one of the three brightest offensive minds in the game has that advantage. You yell NEXT everyone else listens.

Exactly.  People loved talking about what Sam Darnold or Zach would have looked like with Andy Reid.  Reid would not have drafted either, and even if he had, he would have been looking to upgrade as soon as he got either in the building.

If any talented QB could be turned into Mahomes then there would be no point in GMs wasting all this time and resources scouting QBs.  Just throw an enormous bag of money at Reid, Shanahan or McVay and have them mold any old dogsh*t QB into stardom.

[Jetsplayer21]

11 hours ago, Xtina said:

He is learning but it’s like he has never played this game till now. He thinks too much before he throws, he has no automatic muscle memory in there. Physical talent but nothing else. 

Excellent “quick summary “ of ZW. Like Sam darnold, who was STILL light years ahead of Zach at this stage, ran out of time to prove worthy of a post rookie deal contract. The jury is still out on Sam, and he may not get the same opportunities he had in his 4 years here. Always someone new coming in, that does get it faster, and their chance is lost. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Excellent “quick summary “ of ZW. Like Sam darnold, who was STILL light years ahead of Zach at this stage, ran out of time to prove worthy of a post rookie deal contract. The jury is still out on Sam, and he may not get the same opportunities he had in his 4 years here. Always someone new coming in, that does get it faster, and their chance is lost. 

He's on his 3rd team already and couldn't beat out Mr Irrelevant for the starting job (who was injured much of the summer - Sam got a lot of looks).  I think we kinda know what Sam is and isn't at this point.

Still a better QB than Wilson though so he has that going for him.

[Jetsfan80]

51 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

 

How do you slaughter the GM for the pick and in the next breath fawn over the player??

Pretty sure Dunnie was being facetious with the first post you quoted, but I could be wrong.  Never know with Dunnie, lol.

[Jetsfan80]

53 minutes ago, jgb said:

There has never been a guy who was a terrible 2-year starter who became a decent starter for the team that drafted him. When these (rare) turnarounds happen, they've always been for other teams many years after the initial bad play. Makes sense when the issue is maturity. That takes times.

And Geno is the current posterchild of that kind of turnaround.  Still didn't happen until he was on his 4th team though.

Folks holding out hope that Zach Wilson will be the starting QB for the Jets in 2025/2026 need to take a step back and realize just how unlikely that is.

[jgb]

22 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s like when a company has to demote a middle manager—you can’t just demote him and keep him at the same branch. You transfer him a few districts away because you can’t recover from falling on your face that hard in front of the people you need to lead. 

Yes, and it's not just the team's decision. The player is also eager for a fresh start and some team out there will like believe they can "fix him" and thus value him higher than the team who has seen first-hand that he sucks.

[jgb]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Exactly.  People loved talking about what Sam Darnold or Zach would have looked like with Andy Reid.  Reid would not have drafted either, and even if he had, he would have been looking to upgrade as soon as he got either in the building.

If any talented QB could be turned into Mahomes then there would be no point in GMs wasting all this time and resources scouting QBs.  Just throw an enormous bag of money at Reid, Shanahan or McVay and have them mold any old dogsh*t QB into stardom.

Reid upgraded from Alex Smith who made three pro bowls under him, including the year before he drafted Mahomes and the year he moved him. Andy Reid wouldn't suffer with trash QB play for long.

[Jetsplayer21]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He's on his 3rd team already and couldn't beat out Mr Irrelevant for the starting job (who was injured much of the summer - Sam got a lot of looks).  I think we kinda know what Sam is and isn't at this point.

Still a better QB than Wilson though so he has that going for him.

“ Mr irrelevant “ lol. Purdy ( as a rookie ) lead 9ers to nfc championship. If he didn’t recover so quick, Sam would be the guy. Purdy is probably on short leash. I do believe their system and talent, can go to nfc championship with non star qbs. Jimmy G, Purdy, Sam. But definitely not Zach Wilson lol 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And Geno is the current posterchild of that kind of turnaround.  Still didn't happen until he was on his 4th team though.

Folks holding out hope that Zach Wilson will be the starting QB for the Jets in 2025/2026 need to take a step back and realize just how unlikely that is.

Should also be noted that Geno went 9-8 as a starter, got sacked almost 50 times, and led the league in YOLO balls completed. He had a six game stretch in the middle of the season where he’d throw two TDs, avoid picks, and keep Seattle in games, but he went 3-6 down the stretch and squeaked them into the playoffs on the back of an opportunistic defense and stout running game. The analytics nerds are jerking off to Seattle this offseason, but they are a major regression candidate based on Geno alone.  

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yes, and it's not just the team's decision. The player is also eager for a fresh start and some team out there will like believe they can "fix him" and thus value him higher than the team who has seen first-hand that he sucks.

I disagree here. Zach strikes me as a dude who is in no rush to get back out on the field any time soon. Dude makes $10 million and doesn’t have to get booed out of Metlife and screamed at by Garrett Wilson.