2024 a QB-rich draft

[maury77]

If the draft fell like this, I'd probably take Alt too.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2024-nfl-mock-draft-patriots-take-top-15-wr-for-first-time-since-1996-justin-fields-baker-mayfield-replaced/

The Cardinals picking Caleb and Harrison Jr. ...... that's really nice haul. 

[bonkertons]

3 hours ago, derp said:

Sanchez was in a substantially better position in terms of supporting cast. This team is a defense, a running back, a guard, and a receiver right now. It’d be nice to sit behind Rodgers, but Wilson gets that opportunity too - doesn’t make success a given. And there’s no track record of quarterback development on the coaching staff.

You’re talking about a fourth year player who never has pushed for a starting job and a UDFA they didn’t protect on the roster even though they definitely had space to with all the receivers they kept at safety and two tackles who didn’t come close to winning jobs on what looks like a below average offensive line. Both of those still strike me as optimistic. Again, we’ll see.

I think linebacker is probably fine because worst case they can find somebody cheap and it’s a third linebacker role, but that presumes they’re comfortable with Sherwood taking a more every down role. We also in this recent exchange haven’t addressed the empty DT room.

You have your pick of the litter with the first pick. We’re talking about maybe having the opportunity to choose QB3. The hit rate in the first round is extremely low, it gets substantially lower when you get past that first pick. This front office has inspired no confidence when it comes to making quarterback decisions, and again the offensive coaching staff really has no track record of quarterback development.

Your last paragraph and your second to last conflict with each other. They need to get their guy, but of course it’s a gamble?

I don’t think this organization has earned the benefit of the doubt that going to get their guy is the right move.

Rodgers is signed two years after this year. You’re hoping to compete for a Super Bowl in that window. A first round quarterback in 2023 doesn’t move the needle there. And the situation isn’t great for whoever’s playing quarterback in 2024 which means it’s not going to be great for a young quarterback.

Nothing stops them from acquiring a veteran quarterback after Rodgers stops playing, whenever that is, so they don’t have to play a young player immediately.

None of that is to say they absolutely shouldn’t take a quarterback in the first, but I think it’s far from clear that doing so would be the right decision.

Of course it's a gamble.  It's always a gamble.  No one knows for sure that a QB will pan out, outside of like the rare generational guys that always go 1st overall.  Not sure how that conflicts with them needing to get their guy.  Whoever they like and whoever they decide to take, they'll know he won't be a sure thing.  Doesn't mean they shouldn't pull the trigger on it.  Sure they could wait for the 3rd or 4th to take that guy, where there is little pressure on missing, but there is little pressure for a reason:  whoever you take there is almost expected to fail.  The odds of finding your franchise QB in the 3rd or 4th is ridiculously low.  Again, you have this window of bringing in a young QB to learn under AR for 1 or 2 years.  I'd rather not waste it on a guy who is a longshot.  

 

You could argue Sanchez came into a better situation, but I'd still disagree.  He was thrown into the fire from day one and had the weight of the world on his shoulders.  Only area of the team that was better back then was the OL, which granted is extremely important for a young QB.  Everywhere else I'd give the '23/24 Jets the edge.  And again, hard to say what our OL will even look like once this new pick steps onto the field, but it's not unreasonable to assume it'll be in better shape than it is now.  Even if he doesn't play for 2 years, that's a 26 year old Becton, 26 year old AVT, and 24 year old Tippmann.  

 

I'm not going to get into a debate about how good Davis or Dean could be at S, or how much they actually like Dean since they cut him.  It's really secondary to anything we're discussing.  The point is they shouldn't have to break the bank to fill that spot.  Whether they go with a guy they know(Davis or Dean), or bring in a cheap alternative.  It should have little effect on our cap situation.

 

I'm also not sure why we care about what moves the needle in 2024, especially with a pick we didn't even expect to have.  I'd love a Brock Bowers.  I'd be OK with an OT, although again I'm not sure how much even that moves the needle in 2024.  People like to bring up Broderick Jones(I saw it mentioned literally right after Rodgers' injury), meanwhile the guy isn't even starting yet for Pittsburgh.  You spent a 4th on two OTs in the last two drafts.  JD is supposed to be an OL-guy.  You would think, whether it's optimistic or not, that one of these guys would be ready to play at an average level at least in 2024.  

 

We can sit here and go over team needs and which draft pick would have the biggest impact in 2024.  My point is, this QB class is loaded, and if we miss the playoffs this year, it's clear that Zach isn't the guy.  I don't see how you can pass on this opportunity.  If you want to wait for the 2nd, whatever, but picking from the leftovers doesn't sound like the best strategy - as much as I like some of those guys(Travis, Leonard, maybe even Penix if he's around).  Sure JD hasn't instilled confidence in his ability to get a QB, but in reality he's 0/1.  His draft record everywhere else has been stellar, regardless of what some unreasonable fans might say(some people still claim Becton is a bust...).  IMO the guy has earned another swing, and 2024 appears to be the year to do it.  Go get Bowers in the 1st and then I can live with waiting until the 2nd or 3rd for a QB.  

[derp]

5 hours ago, bonkertons said:

Of course it's a gamble.  It's always a gamble.  No one knows for sure that a QB will pan out, outside of like the rare generational guys that always go 1st overall.  Not sure how that conflicts with them needing to get their guy.  Whoever they like and whoever they decide to take, they'll know he won't be a sure thing.  Doesn't mean they shouldn't pull the trigger on it.  Sure they could wait for the 3rd or 4th to take that guy, where there is little pressure on missing, but there is little pressure for a reason:  whoever you take there is almost expected to fail.  The odds of finding your franchise QB in the 3rd or 4th is ridiculously low.  Again, you have this window of bringing in a young QB to learn under AR for 1 or 2 years.  I'd rather not waste it on a guy who is a longshot.  

 

You could argue Sanchez came into a better situation, but I'd still disagree.  He was thrown into the fire from day one and had the weight of the world on his shoulders.  Only area of the team that was better back then was the OL, which granted is extremely important for a young QB.  Everywhere else I'd give the '23/24 Jets the edge.  And again, hard to say what our OL will even look like once this new pick steps onto the field, but it's not unreasonable to assume it'll be in better shape than it is now.  Even if he doesn't play for 2 years, that's a 26 year old Becton, 26 year old AVT, and 24 year old Tippmann.  

 

I'm not going to get into a debate about how good Davis or Dean could be at S, or how much they actually like Dean since they cut him.  It's really secondary to anything we're discussing.  The point is they shouldn't have to break the bank to fill that spot.  Whether they go with a guy they know(Davis or Dean), or bring in a cheap alternative.  It should have little effect on our cap situation.

 

I'm also not sure why we care about what moves the needle in 2024, especially with a pick we didn't even expect to have.  I'd love a Brock Bowers.  I'd be OK with an OT, although again I'm not sure how much even that moves the needle in 2024.  People like to bring up Broderick Jones(I saw it mentioned literally right after Rodgers' injury), meanwhile the guy isn't even starting yet for Pittsburgh.  You spent a 4th on two OTs in the last two drafts.  JD is supposed to be an OL-guy.  You would think, whether it's optimistic or not, that one of these guys would be ready to play at an average level at least in 2024.  

 

We can sit here and go over team needs and which draft pick would have the biggest impact in 2024.  My point is, this QB class is loaded, and if we miss the playoffs this year, it's clear that Zach isn't the guy.  I don't see how you can pass on this opportunity.  If you want to wait for the 2nd, whatever, but picking from the leftovers doesn't sound like the best strategy - as much as I like some of those guys(Travis, Leonard, maybe even Penix if he's around).  Sure JD hasn't instilled confidence in his ability to get a QB, but in reality he's 0/1.  His draft record everywhere else has been stellar, regardless of what some unreasonable fans might say(some people still claim Becton is a bust...).  IMO the guy has earned another swing, and 2024 appears to be the year to do it.  Go get Bowers in the 1st and then I can live with waiting until the 2nd or 3rd for a QB.  

I had a longer post written up but it’s pretty clear we fundamentally disagree on the state of the roster next season, Douglas’ job performance, asset allocation, and maybe the coaching staff.

You see a good GM picking from a good QB class to put a guy in a good situation, I see a flawed GM picking among the least experienced quarterbacks with the most question marks in a strong class to put a guy into an okay situation with serious question marks.

I don’t think more debate is going to get us anywhere, but I would rather you’re right than I am if that helps.

[BCJet]

On 9/15/2023 at 10:10 AM, maury77 said:

If the draft fell like this, I'd probably take Alt too.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2024-nfl-mock-draft-patriots-take-top-15-wr-for-first-time-since-1996-justin-fields-baker-mayfield-replaced/

The Cardinals picking Caleb and Harrison Jr. ...... that's really nice haul. 

Alt would be great for the Jets but I really dont understand how they could possibly not take a QB if Zach doesnt show a significant improvement.   

[maury77]

18 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Alt would be great for the Jets but I really dont understand how they could possibly not take a QB if Zach doesnt show a significant improvement.   

I know, that was my debate as well.

[win4ever]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

Alt would be great for the Jets but I really dont understand how they could possibly not take a QB if Zach doesnt show a significant improvement.   

I don't think they can, if Rodgers intends to come back.  

Rodgers/Wilson are basically on the roster next year, at which point we are on the win now mode, and in desperate need for OL.  They wouldn't have a 2nd round pick, so the first rd pick would be OL, and by the time we get to the 3rd round, there isn't anyone that is going to help up next year at QB.  

Now, if Rodgers wasn't coming back, then I could see it.  

[GangGreened]

I’m drafting one even if Rodgers comes back. It actually makes me MORE inclined to draft a QB next year.

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, GangGreened said:

I’m drafting one even if Rodgers comes back. It actually makes me MORE inclined to draft a QB next year.

Sam Hartman QB Notre Dame. 24 y.o. when drafted. We won't have a 2nd, but maybe a trade back from pick #32 into the erly 2nd gets him! 

ACC all-time leader in touchdown passes @ WF

[Grandy]

Really like Maye and Penix. Feel like Williams is out of reach even though I'd love to have him.

This year is such a good opportunity to grab a QB with a lot of talent, and have him sit and learn from the best for a year. If we took Maye and put him behind Rodgers for a bit, I feel like we'd all be delighted with the results.

[Augustiniak]

17 hours ago, BCJet said:

Alt would be great for the Jets but I really dont understand how they could possibly not take a QB if Zach doesnt show a significant improvement.   

If the jets don’t make the playoffs and it’s mostly b/c of Zach the jets will likely be at the very least, very involved in scouting qbs for 2024.  You can’t rely on Rodgers coming off that injury when at best you’re probably looking at 1 good year left anyway before he retires.  There are many teams that have made the playoffs recently with young qbs, like the bills, dolphins, chargers, jags, bills, bengals, giants, chiefs and eagles - and that’s just last year.  If the jets have a top 20 pick, qb has to be a prime consideration if wilson sucks again.  

[Bronx]

Please stop drafting QBs, this is a purgatory.

[bonkertons]

17 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Sam Hartman QB Notre Dame. 24 y.o. when drafted. We won't have a 2nd, but maybe a trade back from pick #32 into the erly 2nd gets him! 

ACC all-time leader in touchdown passes @ WF

I actually think Hartman will be there in the 3rd.  I really think his age will prevent him from being one of the top guys. If we draft him and sit him for 2 years behind Rodgers, he ends up taking over at 27 years of age. That’s pretty crazy. 
 

I’d definitely take him in the 3rd(assuming guys like Travis and Penix aren’t still around), but I don’t think I’d move up for him. Definitely not trading back either. If we’re not taking a QB in the 1st I’d rather go “all in” and move up. Get a kid like Bowers or Alt. Walk away with an elite talent.  IMO we’ve drafted well enough lately to the point where we can afford to trade in some picks to get another star here. 

[win4ever]

The guy that I'm looking at as a 3rd round type guy is Joe Milton right now.  He's old and hasn't been all that great, but he's a guy that has all the tools but can't read the defense unless it's oversimplified.  

He's perfect to sit behind Rodgers for 1-2 years, and understand what he needs to do aside from his physical gifts.  Physically, I think he has all the tools to really succeed in the league, if he could learn from a QB for at least 1 year.  Sitting behind Rodgers would be perfect, and I don't think he's going all that high in the draft.  
 

I do understand he has his warts, but I'm thinking developmental guy, more so than a finished project. 

[bonkertons]

1 hour ago, win4ever said:

The guy that I'm looking at as a 3rd round type guy is Joe Milton right now.  He's old and hasn't been all that great, but he's a guy that has all the tools but can't read the defense unless it's oversimplified.  

He's perfect to sit behind Rodgers for 1-2 years, and understand what he needs to do aside from his physical gifts.  Physically, I think he has all the tools to really succeed in the league, if he could learn from a QB for at least 1 year.  Sitting behind Rodgers would be perfect, and I don't think he's going all that high in the draft.  
 

I do understand he has his warts, but I'm thinking developmental guy, more so than a finished project. 

Not sure if a guy who can't read defenses(he also apparently can't throw while on the run) is the right guy to be looking at, considering that's basically what we have right now. 

 

I get the whole "project/development" idea but I'd still rather go with a kid who sees the game at a high level.  If that player isn't available in the 3rd, then you move up into the 2nd....or you just take your guy in the 1st.  This wouldn't be a bad draft to just pull the trigger, IMO.

[Adoni Beast]

It's tricky....on the one hand we will be in a better position to draft a QB higher in the 1st in 2024 than we will be with Rodgers coming back next year for the 2025 draft.

Yet, we need to support Rodgers to make a run at it while he's playing.

I'm of the mind that you draft a QB if you like him whenever possible...but we know how that goes over with Rodgers....he might retire on the spot if we do that.

[bonkertons]

24 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

It's tricky....on the one hand we will be in a better position to draft a QB higher in the 1st in 2024 than we will be with Rodgers coming back next year for the 2025 draft.

Yet, we need to support Rodgers to make a run at it while he's playing.

I'm of the mind that you draft a QB if you like him whenever possible...but we know how that goes over with Rodgers....he might retire on the spot if we do that.

I honestly wouldn't care if next year is one of those "trade every other pick you have and walk away with 2 really good players" drafts.  Like we move up in the 1st for that one elite offensive piece, whether it's a guy like Alt/Fashanu or Bowers.  Then move up again from the 3rd to take your pick of that 2nd tier of QBs(Penix, Nix, Leonard, Travis, Hartman).  Penix would be my top guy at that point, followed by Travis.  

 

 

[Augustiniak]

48 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

I honestly wouldn't care if next year is one of those "trade every other pick you have and walk away with 2 really good players" drafts.  Like we move up in the 1st for that one elite offensive piece, whether it's a guy like Alt/Fashanu or Bowers.  Then move up again from the 3rd to take your pick of that 2nd tier of QBs(Penix, Nix, Leonard, Travis, Hartman).  Penix would be my top guy at that point, followed by Travis.  

 

 

I’ve already seen penix, travis and nix mocked in the first rounds.  That’s what the jets’ first round pick is now earmarked for. 

[bonkertons]

7 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I’ve already seen penix, travis and nix mocked in the first rounds.  That’s what the jets’ first round pick is now earmarked for. 

I don't think I've seen Travis in the 1st in one mock.  Penix seems 50/50.  Nix is usually right around the end of the 1st or early 2nd from what I've seen.  Either way QBs drop all the time(look at Levis last year), and there are just so, so many of these guys in 2024 that a couple could get screwed just from the numbers game.  Again:  Williams, Maye, Sanders, McCarthy, Ewers, Penix, Nix, Travis.  That's 8 guys.  Maybe add in Riley Leonard who seems to be flying up boards as well(although I want to see more with his arm before I consider taking him).  So 9 guys including him.  Do we see 8 or 9 QBs going in the top 64?  2021 you had 6, with the 6th actually going at pick 64(Kyle Trask).  That's the most I can remember.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Penix does end up going 1st round, because I think there will be a team that falls in love with him, but I'd be pretty shocked if we didn't have at least a couple guys available to us if we were to move back up into the end of the 2nd round.  Obviously a lot can change since the draft is nearly a year away, but just the numbers alone....now if Sanders goes back to school, maybe that changes things.  Otherwise I just don't see it.  

[Augustiniak]

10 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

I don't think I've seen Travis in the 1st in one mock.  Penix seems 50/50.  Nix is usually right around the end of the 1st or early 2nd from what I've seen.  Either way QBs drop all the time(look at Levis last year), and there are just so, so many of these guys in 2024 that a couple could get screwed just from the numbers game.  Again:  Williams, Maye, Sanders, McCarthy, Ewers, Penix, Nix, Travis.  That's 8 guys.  Maybe add in Riley Leonard who seems to be flying up boards as well(although I want to see more with his arm before I consider taking him).  So 9 guys including him.  Do we see 8 or 9 QBs going in the top 64?  2021 you had 6, with the 6th actually going at pick 64(Kyle Trask).  That's the most I can remember.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Penix does end up going 1st round, because I think there will be a team that falls in love with him, but I'd be pretty shocked if we didn't have at least a couple guys available to us if we were to move back up into the end of the 2nd round.  Obviously a lot can change since the draft is nearly a year away, but just the numbers alone....now if Sanders goes back to school, maybe that changes things.  Otherwise I just don't see it.  

If the jets have a top 15 pick they’re going to be able to take a good qb prospect.  Also there’s Riley Leonard.  Michael Pratt.  I know douglas has tried to get a qb and overpaid to bring in rodgers, a decision that makes sense before the injury.  He’s brought in a lot of talent and this roster is far from a joke.  But if the jets avoid taking a qb next year in the first when these guys are there and then rodgers gets hurt again and they only have a guy like tannehill who is a has been, then they’re just going to have to draft another one the following year.   I think douglas has 1 more chance to get the qb position right before he and saleh are gone.  One more shot

[bonkertons]

5 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

If the jets have a top 15 pick they’re going to be able to take a good qb prospect.  Also there’s Riley Leonard.  Michael Pratt.  I know douglas has tried to get a qb and overpaid to bring in rodgers, a decision that makes sense before the injury.  He’s brought in a lot of talent and this roster is far from a joke.  But if the jets avoid taking a qb next year in the first when these guys are there and then rodgers gets hurt again and they only have a guy like tannehill who is a has been, then they’re just going to have to draft another one the following year.   I think douglas has 1 more chance to get the qb position right before he and saleh are gone.  One more shot

I also think he'll get another swing at it.  I'm on the fence though as far as when to do it.  I think you can accomplish both things, in theory:  get a piece that can help Rodgers right away, AND get your QB of the future.  

 

Just throwing some bullsh*t at the wall but, what if you trade Huff at some point before the deadline to a contender in desperate need of a pass rusher?  I'm sure you could get a 2nd rounder for him if he's playing at his current level.

 

Go into the draft with your 1st(let's say 16th - .500 team, smack dab in the middle of the draft), 2nd(late), 3rd, two 4ths, 6th

 

You should be able to, in theory, trade your 1st(15), 2nd(52-64 range), and one of the 4ths to move up, maybe as high as pick 7 or 8. Take either Sanders, Bowers, or Alt.  Chances are at least one of them will still be there.  If you don't take the QB, then move up again from the 3rd into the 2nd.  Trade your remaining 4th and either a 4th or 3rd(if you have to) in '25.  Go get Travis or whichever one of the QBs that drops(Penix, Nix...I'd be surprised if there aren't two of them still around by that point).

[win4ever]

2 hours ago, bonkertons said:

Not sure if a guy who can't read defenses(he also apparently can't throw while on the run) is the right guy to be looking at, considering that's basically what we have right now. 

 

I get the whole "project/development" idea but I'd still rather go with a kid who sees the game at a high level.  If that player isn't available in the 3rd, then you move up into the 2nd....or you just take your guy in the 1st.  This wouldn't be a bad draft to just pull the trigger, IMO.

I think the issues with him are somewhat fixable for a mid level prospect.  

I tried scouting him for a bit:  

1.  Issues with setting his feet on quick screens.  He doesn't catch and pass, especially on WR screens, he has a tendency to catch, reset his feet, and then pass.  That one step delays causes the screen pass to be useless because defenders see it ahead of time.   

2.  While he has a great arm, he's not leading them as much as he should.  A lot of the deep ball completions are where the receiver slows down to catch it.  Not an issue in college, but I think it's hard to carry over.  

3.  Great velocity on the ball, and when he's on, very good ball placement.  

4.  Great size, allows him to make throws in difficult passing lanes at the line if needed.  

I don't think he's a complete prospect at all, in fact, I hated him at Michigan.  However, he's been in 2 systems now (I think, maybe more), won't cost more than a mid round pick, and he's the perfect guy to sit behind Rodgers.  

The things that I think Rodgers is good at teaching is:

1.  Pre-Snap/Post-Snap reads

2.  Throwing on the run

3.  Attacking the sidelines

I think those are his weaknesses at this point.  

I don't really like him, but to get as mid round pick, we're going to need to take some risks.  Although too early to speculate.  I think we were talking about Anthony Richardson as a possible 2nd round pick after the college season ended, and he didn't even make it to our first pick.  

Next year's draft seems loaded though at QB.  I was really hoping we'd trade down this year to grab something extra for next season.  

[Augustiniak]

7 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

I also think he'll get another swing at it.  I'm on the fence though as far as when to do it.  I think you can accomplish both things, in theory:  get a piece that can help Rodgers right away, AND get your QB of the future.  

 

Just throwing some bullsh*t at the wall but, what if you trade Huff at some point before the deadline to a contender in desperate need of a pass rusher?  I'm sure you could get a 2nd rounder for him if he's playing at his current level.

 

Go into the draft with your 1st(let's say 16th - .500 team, smack dab in the middle of the draft), 2nd(late), 3rd, two 4ths, 6th

 

You should be able to, in theory, trade your 1st(15), 2nd(52-64 range), and one of the 4ths to move up, maybe as high as pick 7 or 8. Take either Sanders, Bowers, or Alt.  Chances are at least one of them will still be there.  If you don't take the QB, then move up again from the 3rd into the 2nd.  Trade your remaining 4th and either a 4th or 3rd(if you have to) in '25.  Go get Travis or whichever one of the QBs that drops(Penix, Nix...I'd be surprised if there aren't two of them still around by that point).

Jets don’t have a 2nd rounder b/c of the rodgers trade.  So it’s really first round or wait for leftovers.  

[bonkertons]

4 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I think the issues with him are somewhat fixable for a mid level prospect.  

I tried scouting him for a bit:  

1.  Issues with setting his feet on quick screens.  He doesn't catch and pass, especially on WR screens, he has a tendency to catch, reset his feet, and then pass.  That one step delays causes the screen pass to be useless because defenders see it ahead of time.   

2.  While he has a great arm, he's not leading them as much as he should.  A lot of the deep ball completions are where the receiver slows down to catch it.  Not an issue in college, but I think it's hard to carry over.  

3.  Great velocity on the ball, and when he's on, very good ball placement.  

4.  Great size, allows him to make throws in difficult passing lanes at the line if needed.  

I don't think he's a complete prospect at all, in fact, I hated him at Michigan.  However, he's been in 2 systems now (I think, maybe more), won't cost more than a mid round pick, and he's the perfect guy to sit behind Rodgers.  

The things that I think Rodgers is good at teaching is:

1.  Pre-Snap/Post-Snap reads

2.  Throwing on the run

3.  Attacking the sidelines

I think those are his weaknesses at this point.  

I don't really like him, but to get as mid round pick, we're going to need to take some risks.  Although too early to speculate.  I think we were talking about Anthony Richardson as a possible 2nd round pick after the college season ended, and he didn't even make it to our first pick.  

Next year's draft seems loaded though at QB.  I was really hoping we'd trade down this year to grab something extra for next season.  

I guess my thinking is, if Zach isn't the guy, this is your last opportunity to bring in a kid who gets to learn behind Rodgers, and then be groomed to take over.  You've got this 2 year window(hopefully) of this dude being around.  Basically whoever you draft will be the last kid to get to learn from this guy.  IMO we can't **** this up lol.  You gotta get the right prospect, even if it means taking him in the 1st or 2nd(trading up).  

 

Maybe I'm just overrated the value of playing behind a legend.  Maybe in reality it doesn't matter.  I feel like it does though, it has to.  At least a little bit.  

[win4ever]

7 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

I guess my thinking is, if Zach isn't the guy, this is your last opportunity to bring in a kid who gets to learn behind Rodgers, and then be groomed to take over.  You've got this 2 year window(hopefully) of this dude being around.  Basically whoever you draft will be the last kid to get to learn from this guy.  IMO we can't **** this up lol.  You gotta get the right prospect, even if it means taking him in the 1st or 2nd(trading up).  

 

Maybe I'm just overrated the value of playing behind a legend.  Maybe in reality it doesn't matter.  I feel like it does though, it has to.  At least a little bit.  

I think the issue there would be the feelings of Rodgers, especially after the Love situation.  At this point, it's basically Rodgers' team and everyone else is just playing along.  Plus, we really need OT help because our project guys haven't exactly stepped up yet.  I'm giving Brown about 2 more weeks before he shows up or gets benched.  But without Becton's 5th year option, and Brown, we're down 2 OTs next year that we need to sign/draft.  I'm guessing one of them will be from the backups we have this year, with one year under them, and then we pay up (either money or draft capital) for the other.  

I think the idea was to have Wilson basically learn under Rodgers, and then transition to him, because I can already see some of the positives from Rodgers.  However, that went out the window.  

My bigger issue is, what exactly do we do with this offensive staff?  I don't think they are developing anything to be honest the QB position because they seem stuck in 2004 with their offensive philosophies.  The draft also depends on how we develop some of these weapons as well, because Hardman will be gone.  If Gipson/Brownlee don't step up, we need to find a slot receiver either with cap/or draft capital as well.  

I think the Jets almost have to trade Huff/Lawson at this point, and hope they can fetch something, and then go all in on the draft.  

 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I think the issue there would be the feelings of Rodgers, especially after the Love situation.  At this point, it's basically Rodgers' team and everyone else is just playing along.  Plus, we really need OT help because our project guys haven't exactly stepped up yet.  I'm giving Brown about 2 more weeks before he shows up or gets benched.  But without Becton's 5th year option, and Brown, we're down 2 OTs next year that we need to sign/draft.  I'm guessing one of them will be from the backups we have this year, with one year under them, and then we pay up (either money or draft capital) for the other.  

I think the idea was to have Wilson basically learn under Rodgers, and then transition to him, because I can already see some of the positives from Rodgers.  However, that went out the window.  

My bigger issue is, what exactly do we do with this offensive staff?  I don't think they are developing anything to be honest the QB position because they seem stuck in 2004 with their offensive philosophies.  The draft also depends on how we develop some of these weapons as well, because Hardman will be gone.  If Gipson/Brownlee don't step up, we need to find a slot receiver either with cap/or draft capital as well.  

I think the Jets almost have to trade Huff/Lawson at this point, and hope they can fetch something, and then go all in on the draft.  

 

If douglas is drafting another qb for his job, he’s not worrying about Rodgers’ feelings.  He’s drafting a qb to justify keeping his job to support his family and he’s going to take the guy who has the best shot of playing well. 

[win4ever]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

If douglas is drafting another qb for his job, he’s not worrying about Rodgers’ feelings.  He’s drafting a qb to justify keeping his job to support his family and he’s going to take the guy who has the best shot of playing well. 

I think at this point, if Rodgers walked into Woody's office and gives the signal, they'd bury Douglas under the turf.  I don't think JD holds more power than Rodgers right now, until he retires, the effective GM of the Jets is Rodgers.  

[Grandy]

I really like Penix, Maye, and Sanders as possible picks for us. Being able to develop them behind Rodgers is a dream scenario.

[Adoni Beast]

1 hour ago, win4ever said:

I think at this point, if Rodgers walked into Woody's office and gives the signal, they'd bury Douglas under the turf.  I don't think JD holds more power than Rodgers right now, until he retires, the effective GM of the Jets is Rodgers.  

I couldn't agree more with this. This team will operate under Rodgers' direction until he retires. The chances we draft a QB in the first round next year are practically zero. 

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said:

I couldn't agree more with this. This team will operate under Rodgers' direction until he retires. The chances we draft a QB in the first round next year are practically zero. 

I disagree b/c woody is seeing now what happens if rodgers gets hurt again.  And even woody understands that a 40 yr old qb coming off a major injury is a big risk to miss major games. 

What happens if rodgers returns, and reinjures his Achilles week 3 and says that’s it, i tried, it’s too hard at my age and im going to retire and that’s that.  And the jets had, say, the 15th pick and passed on 2 qbs who turn out to be good. That gets a gm fired.  You always take a qb.  All they have is a 40 yr old with a bad Achilles. They have nothing at qb right now, absolutely nothing

[Adoni Beast]

23 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I disagree b/c woody is seeing now what happens if rodgers gets hurt again.  And even woody understands that a 40 yr old qb coming off a major injury is a big risk to miss major games. 

What happens if rodgers returns, and reinjures his Achilles week 3 and says that’s it, i tried, it’s too hard at my age and im going to retire and that’s that.  And the jets had, say, the 15th pick and passed on 2 qbs who turn out to be good. That gets a gm fired.  You always take a qb.  All they have is a 40 yr old with a bad Achilles. They have nothing at qb right now, absolutely nothing

Right…we’re talking about Woody “You Can Never Have Too Much Tim Tebow” Johnson.

The guy will trade wins for headlines.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Adoni Beast said:

Right…we’re talking about Woody “You Can Never Have Too Much Tim Tebow” Johnson.

The guy will trade wins for headlines.

He has headlines with rodgers returning.  But he can also have the successor too.  

[Adoni Beast]

8 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

He has headlines with rodgers returning.  But he can also have the successor too.  

I hope so brother. From your touchscreen to Woody’s eyes.

[bonkertons]

3 hours ago, win4ever said:

I think the issue there would be the feelings of Rodgers, especially after the Love situation.  At this point, it's basically Rodgers' team and everyone else is just playing along.  Plus, we really need OT help because our project guys haven't exactly stepped up yet.  I'm giving Brown about 2 more weeks before he shows up or gets benched.  But without Becton's 5th year option, and Brown, we're down 2 OTs next year that we need to sign/draft.  I'm guessing one of them will be from the backups we have this year, with one year under them, and then we pay up (either money or draft capital) for the other.  

I think the idea was to have Wilson basically learn under Rodgers, and then transition to him, because I can already see some of the positives from Rodgers.  However, that went out the window.  

My bigger issue is, what exactly do we do with this offensive staff?  I don't think they are developing anything to be honest the QB position because they seem stuck in 2004 with their offensive philosophies.  The draft also depends on how we develop some of these weapons as well, because Hardman will be gone.  If Gipson/Brownlee don't step up, we need to find a slot receiver either with cap/or draft capital as well.  

I think the Jets almost have to trade Huff/Lawson at this point, and hope they can fetch something, and then go all in on the draft.  

 

I can’t see them not franchising Becton at this rate, assuming he stays on the field all year. He’s been our best OL. Maybe we still take an OT even with him. I wouldn’t be opposed to that. 
 

As far as Rodgers goes, I’m sure he knows what’s up. He’ll be 40 next year. We were without him this year. We gotta be prepared for that again, as well as bring in the guy to follow him. 
 

I can see us bringing in a piece to help Rodgers, but I can also see us going QB. 

[BCJet]

On 9/17/2023 at 11:55 AM, bonkertons said:

I actually think Hartman will be there in the 3rd.  I really think his age will prevent him from being one of the top guys. If we draft him and sit him for 2 years behind Rodgers, he ends up taking over at 27 years of age. That’s pretty crazy. 
 

I’d definitely take him in the 3rd(assuming guys like Travis and Penix aren’t still around), but I don’t think I’d move up for him. Definitely not trading back either. If we’re not taking a QB in the 1st I’d rather go “all in” and move up. Get a kid like Bowers or Alt. Walk away with an elite talent.  IMO we’ve drafted well enough lately to the point where we can afford to trade in some picks to get another star here. 

If we take a tackle in round 1 id be thrilled with Hartman in round 3 and really dont care about his age.

He is a really tough kid and will have a ton of starting experience.  Putting him in our QB room for a year would be a smart hedge to try to solve this QB problem. 

[win4ever]

5 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

I couldn't agree more with this. This team will operate under Rodgers' direction until he retires. The chances we draft a QB in the first round next year are practically zero. 

Yeah, especially after the contract renegotiation because I'm pretty sure he did that so he could have a say in who should be added next year.  Until he retires, Rodgers is going to be the GM but I don't even think that's much of a bad thing.  We need to focus on the offense more, and I'd like to hear who he likes in the draft and what he notices.