Wilson's Game Film

[The Crusher]

On 9/15/2023 at 9:11 AM, SoFlaJets said:

Take 6 minutes out of your busy life and watch the film bro, the kid played pretty good man, AND...he didn't lose the game and "WE" won

My favorite part is after the int to Milano Zach got pissed and  leveled him, that was awesome. 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

2 hours ago, Claymation said:

MiLF is the Rams' Dowell Loggains. Let that sink in, then reread your post.

Dowell Loggains, wonder wtf he is doing these days?

Probably Maccagnan’s caddy, watching Maccagnan shoot a 344 on a public golf course in a some very obscure place.

[T0mShane]

43 minutes ago, cat999 said:

BTW, I meant look at the Daniel Jeremiah breakdown of Zach Wilson's film, which I thought was posted somewhere in this thread. 

Every one of those “Zach wasn’t that bad!” recaps from last week all had the same theme:

—“Look at this nice pass! He hung in the pocket and delivered a strike to Lazard!”

(Reality: he was not under pressure and Lazard was wide open on a dig route vs Cover Two. This is a 101 level play that you start running in Pop Warner)

—“He consciously leaves the ball inside on Garrett Wilson’s corner route so he can avoid throwing it into coverage”

(Reality: cover two again and Zach rips it low and inside where Garrett Wilson can go down and get it. Good that he gives Wilson a shot, but it’s throwing it in the general area and hoping your receiver can go get it. Better play by Garrett Wilson to cut the route short.”

—The 30 yard retreat on the screen that Jeremiah explains away as “what was he supposed to do?” is high comedy. Maybe what every other QB does on a failed screen—throw it out of bounds so your OL don’t have to sprint in the open field for ten seconds, picking up the illegal man downfield penalty.

 

What you liked from Zach:

—he was getting beat up and still hung in there. He got legitimately whacked a few times and still kept his eyes downfield, which hasn’t always been the case. Made a slick play to Lazard while being dragged down, showing some guts and presence of mind under duress.

—Zach’s passing numbers are historically respectable under two conditions: 1. While not pressured and 2. Vs Cover Two, where his arm strength and simple reads into the hook zones serve him well. I’d imagine McDermott had prepped to pressure Rodgers all night, but called off the dogs when Zach came in with the belief that Zach wasn’t going to score the ball anyway. 
 

What you hated from Zach:

—led the league in time to throw which, for a QB that isn’t scrambling, is a death knell. We can give him credit for enduring the rush, but he’s also inviting the rush to get to him by holding the ball. The OL won most of their snaps against the Bills, but every OL looks like sh*t three seconds into a play. 

—Zach is still staring his primary receiver down and rarely turns his head. I know he worked on this during the summer, but he reverted back in game action. 
 

—Continued reluctance to run. I give him credit for preserving himself because he was the only QB available at that point, but there was a play in the third(?) quarter where he rolled to the left side and had Conklin and Lazard running in front of him, with a bunch of green grass available. If he runs, he has a convoy and a big gain. Instead, he flips is laterally to Conklin who gets immediately blown up. It reminded me of a complaint that you often hear about Kirk Cousins—that he’ll throw hospital balls to outlet receivers at the first sign of pressure, getting them killed so he can avoid the hit.

[Hal]

42 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

We already had that when the Rams were the worst statistical offense in preseason “Ooooh Little Flower is killing it,” while eliding the fact that the Zach Wilson Jets were the second worst offense in preseason. 

What does MiLF have to do with the Rams offensive success?  Want to give credit to the copy shop printing the playbook too? 

 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Hal said:

What does MiLF have to do with the Rams offensive success?  Want to give credit to the copy shop printing the playbook too? 

 

Don’t make me go get the stats, Hal.

[derp]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Every one of those “Zach wasn’t that bad!” recaps from last week all had the same theme:

—“Look at this nice pass! He hung in the pocket and delivered a strike to Lazard!”

(Reality: he was not under pressure and Lazard was wide open on a dig route vs Cover Two. This is a 101 level play that you start running in Pop Warner)

—“He consciously leaves the ball inside on Garrett Wilson’s corner route so he can avoid throwing it into coverage”

(Reality: cover two again and Zach rips it low and inside where Garrett Wilson can go down and get it. Good that he gives Wilson a shot, but it’s throwing it in the general area and hoping your receiver can go get it. Better play by Garrett Wilson to cut the route short.”

—The 30 yard retreat on the screen that Jeremiah explains away as “what was he supposed to do?” is high comedy. Maybe what every other QB does on a failed screen—throw it out of bounds so your OL don’t have to sprint in the open field for ten seconds, picking up the illegal man downfield penalty.

 

What you liked from Zach:

—he was getting beat up and still hung in there. He got legitimately whacked a few times and still kept his eyes downfield, which hasn’t always been the case. Made a slick play to Lazard while being dragged down, showing some guts and presence of mind under duress.

—Zach’s passing numbers are historically respectable under two conditions: 1. While not pressured and 2. Vs Cover Two, where his arm strength and simple reads into the hook zones serve him well. I’d imagine McDermott had prepped to pressure Rodgers all night, but called off the dogs when Zach came in with the belief that Zach wasn’t going to score the ball anyway. 
 

What you hated from Zach:

—led the league in time to throw which, for a QB that isn’t scrambling, is a death knell. We can give him credit for enduring the rush, but he’s also inviting the rush to get to him by holding the ball. The OL won most of their snaps against the Bills, but every OL looks like sh*t three seconds into a play. 

—Zach is still staring his primary receiver down and rarely turns his head. I know he worked on this during the summer, but he reverted back in game action. 
 

—Continued reluctance to run. I give him credit for preserving himself because he was the only QB available at that point, but there was a play in the third(?) quarter where he rolled to the left side and had Conklin and Lazard running in front of him, with a bunch of green grass available. If he runs, he has a convoy and a big gain. Instead, he flips is laterally to Conklin who gets immediately blown up. It reminded me of a complaint that you often hear about Kirk Cousins—that he’ll throw hospital balls to outlet receivers at the first sign of pressure, getting them killed so he can avoid the hit.

I removed my POTW reaction so I could POTW this a second time.

[Hal]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Don’t make me go get the stats, Hal.

T0m in 28 hours you too may know Zach is on the way to being a Jet legend 1st ballot HoF QB.  
 

But more likely we will see the RBs get some good work in.  

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Hal said:

T0m in 28 hours you too may know Zach is on the way to being a Jet legend 1st ballot HoF QB.  
 

But more likely we will see the RBs get some good work in.  

If you can manifest things by really, really hoping for them maybe start with world peace or ending childhood hunger.

[Jets723]

55 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

My favorite part is after the int to Milano Zach got pissed and  leveled him, that was awesome. 

Agreed.  Even after the TD pass he immediately went up to GW and told him he should e made it an easier play for him.  The pick was bad but I did see some growth in some areas coming into a tough situation.  We shall see this Sunday 

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Hal said:

T0m in 28 hours you too may know Zach is on the way to being a Jet legend 1st ballot HoF QB.  
 

But more likely we will see the RBs get some good work in.  

Hal, I will be honest. I watched that Giants-Cowboys game with a sense of dread because I had visions of Aaron Rodgers getting wrecked against that Cowboys defense, and every media hack and podcast loon would be mocking the Jets to the high heavens for a week. I am actually a little less worried about this game with Zach under center because 1. Lowered expectations and 2. The game plan will be exceedingly conservative, which feeds into what was probably the Jets strength anyway—turning the game into a mosh pit by running the ball. I am kinda looking forward to watching the Jets 13 personnel beating the sh*t out of Micah Parsons and co. I would not be as enthusiastic to watch a ketamine’d-up Aaron Rodgers in the shotgun calling for deep shots because he thinks Dalvin Cook will reliably pick up the three blitzers gunning for his head. 

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Agreed.  Even after the TD pass he immediately went up to GW and told him he should e made it an easier play for him.  The pick was bad but I did see some growth in some areas coming into a tough situation.  We shall see this Sunday 

I think Zach humbling himself could go a long way, so I agree. I also think he should try and smash the player that picks him off every time. I love that shit! 
 

[FidelioJet]

23 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Every one of those “Zach wasn’t that bad!” recaps from last week all had the same theme:

—“Look at this nice pass! He hung in the pocket and delivered a strike to Lazard!”

(Reality: he was not under pressure and Lazard was wide open on a dig route vs Cover Two. This is a 101 level play that you start running in Pop Warner)

—“He consciously leaves the ball inside on Garrett Wilson’s corner route so he can avoid throwing it into coverage”

(Reality: cover two again and Zach rips it low and inside where Garrett Wilson can go down and get it. Good that he gives Wilson a shot, but it’s throwing it in the general area and hoping your receiver can go get it. Better play by Garrett Wilson to cut the route short.”

—The 30 yard retreat on the screen that Jeremiah explains away as “what was he supposed to do?” is high comedy. Maybe what every other QB does on a failed screen—throw it out of bounds so your OL don’t have to sprint in the open field for ten seconds, picking up the illegal man downfield penalty.

 

What you liked from Zach:

—he was getting beat up and still hung in there. He got legitimately whacked a few times and still kept his eyes downfield, which hasn’t always been the case. Made a slick play to Lazard while being dragged down, showing some guts and presence of mind under duress.

—Zach’s passing numbers are historically respectable under two conditions: 1. While not pressured and 2. Vs Cover Two, where his arm strength and simple reads into the hook zones serve him well. I’d imagine McDermott had prepped to pressure Rodgers all night, but called off the dogs when Zach came in with the belief that Zach wasn’t going to score the ball anyway. 
 

What you hated from Zach:

—led the league in time to throw which, for a QB that isn’t scrambling, is a death knell. We can give him credit for enduring the rush, but he’s also inviting the rush to get to him by holding the ball. The OL won most of their snaps against the Bills, but every OL looks like sh*t three seconds into a play. 

—Zach is still staring his primary receiver down and rarely turns his head. I know he worked on this during the summer, but he reverted back in game action. 
 

—Continued reluctance to run. I give him credit for preserving himself because he was the only QB available at that point, but there was a play in the third(?) quarter where he rolled to the left side and had Conklin and Lazard running in front of him, with a bunch of green grass available. If he runs, he has a convoy and a big gain. Instead, he flips is laterally to Conklin who gets immediately blown up. It reminded me of a complaint that you often hear about Kirk Cousins—that he’ll throw hospital balls to outlet receivers at the first sign of pressure, getting them killed so he can avoid the hit.

This is almost all entirely untrue.

I do appreciate the effort you put in but this is innaccurate.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is almost all entirely untrue.

I do appreciate the effort you put in but this is innaccurate.

The floor is yours, sir

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uwHM4NXbdTc&pp=ygUXZXZlcnkgemFjaCB3aWxzb24gdGhyb3c%3D

 

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Hal, I will be honest. I watched that Giants-Cowboys game with a sense of dread because I had visions of Aaron Rodgers getting wrecked against that Cowboys defense, and every media hack and podcast loon would be mocking the Jets to the high heavens for a week. I am actually a little less worried about this game with Zach under center because 1. Lowered expectations and 2. The game plan will be exceedingly conservative, which feeds into what was probably the Jets strength anyway—turning the game into a mosh pit by running the ball. I am kinda looking forward to watching the Jets 13 personnel beating the sh*t out of Micah Parsons and co. I would not be as enthusiastic to watch a ketamine’d-up Aaron Rodgers in the shotgun calling for deep shots because he thinks Dalvin Cook will reliably pick up the three blitzers gunning for his head. 

Yeah, all we need was him to play the cowboys and end up with season ending injury. That would suck. Good call T0m, if that happen your pick for Captain would probably resign on the spot. Glad we dodged  that bullet. 

[Jets723]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

I think Zach humbling himself could go a long way, so I agree. I also think he should try and smash the player that picks him off every time. I love that sh*t! 
 

Absolutely.  I do think many haven’t forgiven him for that “I didn’t let the defense down”. Granted it was the wrong thing to say especially to the media who try to stir sh*t up BUT I honestly don’t think he meant it as a slight just a young kid who said the wrong thing.  However yes I think last year was humbling and part of his maturation.  Look the kid had talent it’s obvious it’s been the mental part.  I do think Having an OC coach on the sidelines in his ear will help and if AR does come back to sidelines which I think is a good possibility that will also help tremendously 

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Dowell Loggains, wonder wtf he is doing these days?

Probably Maccagnan’s caddy, watching Maccagnan shoot a 344 on a public golf course in a some very obscure place.

Offensive coordinator for South Carolina.

[SoFlaJets]

On Rich Cimini's podcast he said that Wilson held onto the ball the longest of any QB in week 1. I am trying to make myself believe that which in my heart I know not to be true. BECAUSE I am a lifetime Jets fan I will be rooting for Wilson to play at least as well as Sanchez or maybe even Brooks Bollinger and NOT like Zach Wilson. 

[jgb]

17 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

On Rich Cimini's podcast he said that Wilson held onto the ball the longest of any QB in week 1. I am trying to make myself believe that which in my heart I know not to be true. BECAUSE I am a lifetime Jets fan I will be rooting for Wilson to play at least as well as Sanchez or maybe even Brooks Bollinger and NOT like Zach Wilson. 

Zach was also the slowest QB in the league from snap-to-throw last season. I’ll give him a pass here since he came in cold but this week he needs to be faster in processing and executing. Can he? I have my data-supported doubts.

[FidelioJet]

33 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

—“Look at this nice pass! He hung in the pocket and delivered a strike to Lazard!”

(Reality: he was not under pressure and Lazard was wide open on a dig route vs Cover Two. This is a 101 level play that you start running in Pop Warner)

"Zach wasn't that bad" is what many have said...  He was fine.  Wasn't good but surely wasn't bad either.

This point above exactly proves why the people that hate Zach can't even see through their own dislike.  Even a knowledgeable poster like yourself.

This was a nice play and nothing wrong with it.  It was timely and got things moving.  Certainly wasn't special - I don't see anyone saying it was.  But just because it wasn't special doesn't make it bad.  He executed a quality play.  It's okay to accept that.

37 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

—“He consciously leaves the ball inside on Garrett Wilson’s corner route so he can avoid throwing it into coverage”

(Reality: cover two again and Zach rips it low and inside where Garrett Wilson can go down and get it. Good that he gives Wilson a shot, but it’s throwing it in the general area and hoping your receiver can go get it. Better play by Garrett Wilson to cut the route short.”

If we're thinking of the same play here - IMO, this was absolutely thrown to his back shoulder to stop him from getting killed.  In my mind there is no doubt about that.  Again - if this is the play you're referencing, your bias is clear.  QB's are taught to read the field that way and make throws accordingly.

41 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

—Zach’s passing numbers are historically respectable under two conditions: 1. While not pressured and 2. Vs Cover Two, where his arm strength and simple reads into the hook zones serve him well. I’d imagine McDermott had prepped to pressure Rodgers all night, but called off the dogs when Zach came in with the belief that Zach wasn’t going to score the ball anyway. 

McDermott did what he thought would be the best to stop the Jets offense.  He wasn't doing Zach any favors.  He's also not a fool and was fully capable of adapting a game to play a lesser QB.  He made life as difficult on Zach as he believed he could.

42 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

—led the league in time to throw which, for a QB that isn’t scrambling, is a death knell. We can give him credit for enduring the rush, but he’s also inviting the rush to get to him by holding the ball. The OL won most of their snaps against the Bills, but every OL looks like sh*t three seconds into a play. 

The OL was terrible in the passing game.  You can point to all the numbers you want - I watched the game twice.  Zach was under constant pressure.

43 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

—Zach is still staring his primary receiver down and rarely turns his head. I know he worked on this during the summer, but he reverted back in game action. 

Zach was almost entirely looking to throw short quick hits...which QB's all stare down their first receiver.  That's the way the plays are designed.

When Zach throws the ball downfield he was doing a fine job of looking off.  

44 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

—Continued reluctance to run. I give him credit for preserving himself because he was the only QB available at that point, but there was a play in the third(?) quarter where he rolled to the left side and had Conklin and Lazard running in front of him, with a bunch of green grass available. If he runs, he has a convoy and a big gain. Instead, he flips is laterally to Conklin who gets immediately blown up. It reminded me of a complaint that you often hear about Kirk Cousins—that he’ll throw hospital balls to outlet receivers at the first sign of pressure, getting them killed so he can avoid the hit

Zach is trying to get the ball into the hands of his receivers.  He doesn't not run out of fear he's going to get hit.  It's absurd on its face to make a claim like that with absolutely nothing other than your own bias to back it up....While I agree he can take off far more often than he does - but I think it's just part of his poor decision making.  Not cowardice.

--------------

Let me be clear.  I do not think Zach was good.  I don't think he was bad either.  I think he did a fine enough job to keep them in the game and give them a chance to win. 

At this point he is a very limited QB that isn't capable of doing much more than what we saw last week without having the negative outweigh the positive.  But it's okay to give him credit for the things he does well.  

The whole point of your post is people that said "He wasn't that bad" were wrong.  The reality is he wasn't that bad.  He kept his team in the game, made a few key plays and gave his team a chance to win.  

[T0mShane]

12 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

"Zach wasn't that bad" is what many have said...  He was fine.  Wasn't good but surely wasn't bad either.

This point above exactly proves why the people that hate Zach can't even see through their own dislike.  Even a knowledgeable poster like yourself.

This was a nice play and nothing wrong with it.  It was timely and got things moving.  Certainly wasn't special - I don't see anyone saying it was.  But just because it wasn't special doesn't make it bad.  He executed a quality play.  It's okay to accept that.

If we're thinking of the same play here - IMO, this was absolutely thrown to his back shoulder to stop him from getting killed.  In my mind there is no doubt about that.  Again - if this is the play you're referencing, your bias is clear.  QB's are taught to read the field that way and make throws accordingly.

McDermott did what he thought would be the best to stop the Jets offense.  He wasn't doing Zach any favors.  He's also not a fool and was fully capable of adapting a game to play a lesser QB.  He made life as difficult on Zach as he believed he could.

The OL was terrible in the passing game.  You can point to all the numbers you want - I watched the game twice.  Zach was under constant pressure.

Zach was almost entirely looking to throw short quick hits...which QB's all stare down their first receiver.  That's the way the plays are designed.

When Zach throws the ball downfield he was doing a fine job of looking off.  

Zach is trying to get the ball into the hands of his receivers.  He doesn't not run out of fear he's going to get hit.  It's absurd on its face to make a claim like that with absolutely nothing other than your own bias to back it up....While I agree he can take off far more often than he does - but I think it's just part of his poor decision making.  Not cowardice.

--------------

Let me be clear.  I do not think Zach was good.  I don't think he was bad either.  I think he did a fine enough job to keep them in the game and give them a chance to win. 

At this point he is a very limited QB that isn't capable of doing much more than what we saw last week without having the negative outweigh the positive.  But it's okay to give him credit for the things he does well.  

The whole point of your post is people that said "He wasn't that bad" were wrong.  The reality is he wasn't that bad.  He kept his team in the game, made a few key plays and gave his team a chance to win.  

I’m taking issue with the idea that Zach has improved all that much when the evidence is that he successfully ran a few baseline, 101-level plays. Kudos to him, but he was the second overall pick and not some 7th round pick who ran the wing-T at Liberty. What we’re going to see on Sunday is the Cowboys playing up on the LOS to take away the lateral passes Zach threw against the Bills and dare him to prove he can play at the level of an NFL starter. We’ll see how much he’s improved then

[TuscanyTile2]

47 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

On Rich Cimini's podcast he said that Wilson held onto the ball the longest of any QB in week 1. I am trying to make myself believe that which in my heart I know not to be true. BECAUSE I am a lifetime Jets fan I will be rooting for Wilson to play at least as well as Sanchez or maybe even Brooks Bollinger and NOT like Zach Wilson. 

You have to wonder how much that one play where he scrambled all over the place and then threw it away affected his average.

[FidelioJet]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m taking issue with the idea that Zach has improved all that much when the evidence is that he successfully ran a few baseline, 101-level plays. Kudos to him, but he was the second overall pick and not some 7th round pick who ran the wing-T at Liberty. What we’re going to see on Sunday is the Cowboys playing up on the LOS to take away the lateral passes Zach threw against the Bills and dare him to prove he can play at the level of an NFL starter. We’ll see how much he’s improved then

I think this is fair.

But at some point where he was picked is no longer relevant.  We can keep pointing to it but it's not going to make him any better or worse.  He is what he is right now - A back up being forced into playing from the 5th play of the 1st game.  Not an ideal situation for any franchise.

Where he's gotten better is standing in the pocket and hitting the short passes accurately.  But that does not make him a good NFL QB.  I completely agree.  

All I was saying is he wasn't bad Monday night. And that's it's okay to say that - doesn't mean you have to think he's the future - to say "he wasn't that bad"  

We'll see what Dallas does but I suspect you're correct and that Zach will have a bad day.  To be honest, I'm not buying any of this we're running with Zach all season.  No way they're not in deep talks trying to find a viable starter.  I think Sunday is likely to force their hand to move quickly.   

[SoFlaJets]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You have to wonder how much that one play where he scrambled all over the place and then threw it away affected his average.

yea, true...pretty much all of us are jaded by Zach body of work but WTHBS we've seen worse from him and if he can score another B- (81 QBR) tomorrow down in Dallas then we've got a decent chance to win this game-and that's all I want...I have to root for our QB the same way I was forced to root for all those other back-up Jets QB's from when Joe would get hurt and miss whole seasons to Vinny in 1999, to Chad and all of the other guys we've had to watch play QB for this team while other teams in our division had the Fins; Marino, the Bills; Jim Kelly, the Colts Peyton Manning, the Patriots; with Brady and here we sit again, with the games worst QB as our starter

[gandolfthewhite]

Zach, you make me feel like I closed my Schwanz in the door.
Back to bashing this guy.
Take everything back. He took 5bsteps backwards....

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[gandolfthewhite]

Guy really didn't have time. Under duress. Tried to make something with bad coverage. What a shot show we have here. Regroup.

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