Breakout game for JSN

[#27TheDominator]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I thought you were talking about the TCU guard Avila and got him confused with former UTEP guard Will Hernandez

Maybe Aaron since the Pats drafted him.  I thought he was the chalk pick and he's looked great so far.  Sure we had corner depth, but I'm not sure you can say it would have been a wasted pick on a team that just started Craig James and Tae Hayes against the NFC champs.

[#27TheDominator]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I thought you were talking about the TCU guard Avila and got him confused with former UTEP guard Will Hernandez

I would like to add, a G?  In the first round?  That doesn't sound like me, though I did take Chris Lindstrom in the mid-20's in the 2019 JN mock.

[JiFtheOracle]

16 hours ago, Beerfish said:

JSN is going to be Amon Ra-St Brown

[PS17]

JSN + Bobo next generation Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt come at me haters (just need Metcalf and Lockett to lose both their legs first) 

 

[TuscanyTile2]

On 10/23/2023 at 4:08 PM, Beerfish said:

JSN is going to be Amon Ra-St Brown.

7 hours ago, JiF said:

[Warfish]

Since this thread is still going, I'll just add this:

If MacDonald at EDGE and Lazard/Hardman/Cobb at WR were all playing well, there would be no one talking about JSN.

[Scott Dierking]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Since this thread is still going, I'll just add this:

If MacDonald at EDGE and Lazard/Hardman/Cobb at WR were all playing well, there would be no one talking about JSN.

IF Aaron Rodgers were still healthy and playing, Lazard/Hardman/Cobb MAY all be playing well right now. The best laid plans......

What we have here is not a "do the Jets need JSN problem", but a "we do not have Aaron Rodgers problem". JSN is not going to fix that.

All the "ifs" in the world are not going to change that reality.

 

[Warfish]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

IF Aaron Rodgers were still healthy and playing, Lazard/Hardman/Cobb MAY all be playing well right now. The best laid plans......

What we have here is not a "do the Jets need JSN problem", but a "we do not have Aaron Rodgers problem". JSN is not going to fix that.

All the "ifs" in the world are not going to change that reality.

We must live with the world as it is, not the world as we wish it to be.

Sucking at WR (other than G. Wilson) isn't ok just because we lost Aaron Rodgers.

No speculation, no "ifs" here, we're simply a weak team today at WR, and a team who is not playing it's #1 pick.

[jetswinbaby!]

Who the F--k is JSN, and why the F--k should I care?...

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We must live with the world as it is, not the world as we wish it to be.

Sucking at WR (other than G. Wilson) isn't ok just because we lost Aaron Rodgers.

No speculation, no "ifs" here, we're simply a weak team today at WR, and a team who is not playing it's #1 pick.

You were the one that started this with an "if", so I just played along.

Let me ask you this, absent the McDonald part of this equation, and with no JSN on this roster, do you believe in your heart of hearts that the Jets offense consisting of WR's G. Wilson, Lazard, Hardman and Cobb would be markedly better with Aaron Rodgers at the helm, than it is currently with Z. Wilson at the helm?

If you answer that truthfully in the affirmative, that gives you the answer to where the current problem resides with this offense. McDonald only then becomes a footnote. A relatively trivial footnote. 

 

 

[Barry McCockinner]

3 rookie WR's to vote for this week.

 

[Warfish]

13 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Let me ask you this, absent the McDonald part of this equation, and with no JSN on this roster, do you believe in your heart of hearts that the Jets offense consisting of WR's G. Wilson, Lazard, Hardman and Cobb would be markedly better with Aaron Rodgers at the helm, than it is currently with Z. Wilson at the helm?

Yes.

13 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

If you answer that truthfully in the affirmative, that gives you the answer to where the current problem resides with this offense.

There is no question QB is where the problem primarily resides.

With that said, providing a bad QB with better WR's would/should help the bad QB be incrementally better.

13 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

McDonald only then becomes a footnote. A relatively trivial footnote. 

There is no scenario where your 1st round pick sitting because he can't earn playing time is "trivial" or a "footnote".  That's such an odd opinion to have.

If WR wasn't a need, then another position would have been.

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Warfish said:

Yes.

There is no question QB is where the problem primarily resides.

With that said, providing a bad QB with better WR's would/should help the bad QB be incrementally better.

There is no scenario where your 1st round pick sitting because he can't earn playing time is "trivial" or a "footnote".  That's such an odd opinion to have.

If WR wasn't a need, then another position would have been.

If you are honestly going to tell me that JSN unlocks Zach Wilson for this season, I would be all in. But I have some doubts. He has not shown anything with at worst a "mediocre" QB, and a great cast of complimentary WR's.  Saying he would make Wilson better seems a stretch.

As you have stated time and time again, this WAS a NOW team, and you were absolutely right. JSN was not a NOW draft pick, as the roster was constituted at the time he was passed over by the Jets. That is where the Jets were in late April. 

[Warfish]

12 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

If you are honestly going to tell me that JSN unlocks Zach Wilson for this season, I would be all in.

"Unlocks"?  

JSN (or if you prefer, some other top WR in that class) would improve the unit upon which Zach (or Rodgers) depends to be productive.

More than an edge sitting does.  Our Offense was poor, our Defense was good.  The O needed more help than the D did, in every scenario.  And no, the meme "Rodgers was enough" was never accurate.

I'm not saying anything more than that.

12 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

But I have some doubts. He has not shown anything with at worst a "mediocre" QB, and a great cast of complimentary WR's.  Saying he would make Wilson better seems a stretch.

He was hurt (like Izzy, sadly), and that slowed his NFL-level development. 

And he's the #3 WR there.  Hard to judge really without looking at every #3 WR in the NFL and comparing, with  an allowance for how often teams throw to TE's and RB's too, etc.  More work than I want to do for this discussion, lol.

12 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

As you have stated time and time again, this WAS a NOW team, and you were absolutely right. JSN was not a NOW draft pick, as the roster was constituted at the time he was passed over by the Jets. That is where the Jets were in late April. 

The win-now is a  massive failure. 

Rodgers, hurt, who knows his real future yet.  Cook, horrid.  Cobb, horrid.  Lazard, invisible mostly.  Hardman, gone already.  Gipson, nowhere to be seen.  Brownlee, inactive.  There should be consequence for having your desperation, gotta-get-our-extensions win-now hail-mary failing to this degree.  But there will not be, Woody clearly seems intent on just running it all back again next year, in another win-now hail-mary.

And the least win-now pick of all, MacDonald, no where to be seen as yet.

[Scott Dierking]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

"Unlocks"?  

JSN (or if you prefer, some other top WR in that class) would improve the unit upon which Zach (or Rodgers) depends to be productive.

More than an edge sitting does.  Our Offense was poor, our Defense was good.  The O needed more help than the D did, in every scenario.  And no, the meme "Rodgers was enough" was never accurate.

I'm not saying anything more than that.

He was hurt (like Izzy, sadly), and that slowed his NFL-level development. 

And he's the #3 WR there.  Hard to judge really without looking at every #3 WR in the NFL and comparing, with  an allowance for how often teams throw to TE's and RB's too, etc.  More work than I want to do for this discussion, lol.

The win-now is a  massive failure. 

Rodgers, hurt, who knows his real future yet.  Cook, horrid.  Cobb, horrid.  Lazard, invisible mostly.  Hardman, gone already.  Gipson, nowhere to be seen.  Brownlee, inactive.  There should be consequence for having your desperation, gotta-get-our-extensions win-now hail-mary failing to this degree.  But there will not be, Woody clearly seems intent on just running it all back again next year, in another win-now hail-mary.

And the least win-now pick of all, MacDonald, no where to be seen as yet.

I am really not going into the "Zach Wilson needs more weapons to fix him" in this thread, because I do not believe that at this point. Think I will just leave it at that.  

[DoubleDown]

In general, I think free agency should be utilized to add "win now" pieces, and the draft should be utilized to build for the future.  The early rounds should absolutely be reserved for the high value positions, and edge rusher is a much higher value position than slot wide receiver.

With all that said, I would have loved to see McDonald contributing more to the team thus far.  Let's see how his role and/or productivity expands in the second half of this season and into next season.  Personally, I don't believe Douglas failed from a strategy standpoint by adding a first round edge rusher with high upside considering Lawson and Huff are on the brink of free agency.

Let see what type of players McDonald and JSN are in 2024 and beyond.

[GreenFish]

20 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

In general, I think free agency should be utilized to add "win now" pieces, and the draft should be utilized to build for the future.  The early rounds should absolutely be reserved for the high value positions, and edge rusher is a much higher value position than slot wide receiver.

With all that said, I would have loved to see McDonald contributing more to the team thus far.  Let's see how his role and/or productivity expands in the second half of this season and into next season.  Personally, I don't believe Douglas failed from a strategy standpoint by adding a first round edge rusher with high upside considering Lawson and Huff are on the brink of free agency.

Let see what type of players McDonald and JSN are in 2024 and beyond.

All great points. Draft picks need to be reviewed 2 or 3 years out.

Some Jets fans were down on Q at the beginning and asking where is the bar of soap we were promised. Turns out, Q is a beast.

Unfortunately, those that wanted JSN will continue to harp on it until McD proves he was the better pick. If he does prove it, they’ll be another draft pick to criticize.

 

[jetblue95]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

And he's the #3 WR there.  Hard to judge really without looking at every #3 WR in the NFL and comparing, with  an allowance for how often teams throw to TE's and RB's too, etc.  More work than I want to do for this discussion, lol.

 

chances are on the jets, he would be the #3 WR.  you may not want to believe it, but i highly doubt he's starting over lazard and given the run-first nature of the team (partially to "hide" zach), i would think the 6'5, 227 lb. noted strong blocker would be playing over the rookie slot receiver in base formations

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

3 rookie WR's to vote for this week.

 

So many breakout performers they just didn’t have room for a 7th.  JSN got robbed @AFJF

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

We must live with the world as it is, not the world as we wish it to be.

Sucking at WR (other than G. Wilson) isn't ok just because we lost Aaron Rodgers.

No speculation, no "ifs" here, we're simply a weak team today at WR, and a team who is not playing it's #1 pick.

Yes.  Wish we had drafted Addison or Zay Flowers.

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

You were the one that started this with an "if", so I just played along.

Let me ask you this, absent the McDonald part of this equation, and with no JSN on this roster, do you believe in your heart of hearts that the Jets offense consisting of WR's G. Wilson, Lazard, Hardman and Cobb would be markedly better with Aaron Rodgers at the helm, than it is currently with Z. Wilson at the helm?

If you answer that truthfully in the affirmative, that gives you the answer to where the current problem resides with this offense. McDonald only then becomes a footnote. A relatively trivial footnote. 

 

 

I’m glad these guys all agree that Garrett Wilson is great because Garrett Wilson’s stats—yards per game, TD’s, catches per game, success rate, catch %—all rank 20th or lower and, statistically, he’s producing at the level of most team’s #2 receiver. But, sure, toss a rookie into the mix who isn’t even producing on an actual NFL offense and that’s fix everything. 

[k-met57]

if you were after a receiver, you should be more upset about the Addison kid who a bunch of teams passed on for guys who will be JAG's. vikings are the steelers of the NFC when it comes to drafting WR.

[TuscanyTile2]

4 hours ago, PS17 said:

JSN + Bobo next generation Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt come at me haters (just need Metcalf and Lockett to lose both their legs first) 

 

 

[#27TheDominator]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

Yes.

There is no question QB is where the problem primarily resides.

With that said, providing a bad QB with better WR's would/should help the bad QB be incrementally better.

There is no scenario where your 1st round pick sitting because he can't earn playing time is "trivial" or a "footnote".  That's such an odd opinion to have.

If WR wasn't a need, then another position would have been.

Remember Jermaine Johnson?  He was an older NFL ready prospect and took time to work into the rotation.  That is how things work here.  I will again argue that by the end of the year it is likely that we will agree that Brownlee + McDonald > JSN and whatever rando UDFA DE you pick up. 

[Joe W. Namath]

JSN caught the game winning td yesterday.  He is really starting to come on as a nfl receiver.