Trotter Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Just now, The Crusher said: Burrow as long as he signs a waiver to not use it to buy more suits like this. He looks like the second runner up on RuPauls drag race. that had to be a bet that he lost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJCAP2 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 25 minutes ago, PepPep said: Eh, I disagree. Yes, if you are going to put it down to one play, sure, you could argue that. But then you can argue it could have been any number of plays. Any number of missed FGs or penalties that were or were not called or drops or catches or whatever. Maybe had the Niners MADE that extra point, the Chiefs are forced to go for it on 4th instead of kicking a FG and they end up winning the game before OT. They were in the Red Zone and went for the chip shot FG b/c they were only down by 3. I'm looking at the game as a whole and what it came down to - IN THE END - was Mahomes being a better, more talent, bigger playmaker than Purdy. JMHO. We don’t KNOW for sure they would have made that 4th down conversion but it would have been an amazing moment for either team. But I do agree with the sentiment of your post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 38 minutes ago, PepPep said: Eh, I disagree. Yes, if you are going to put it down to one play, sure, you could argue that. But then you can argue it could have been any number of plays. Any number of missed FGs or penalties that were or were not called or drops or catches or whatever. Maybe had the Niners MADE that extra point, the Chiefs are forced to go for it on 4th instead of kicking a FG and they end up winning the game before OT. They were in the Red Zone and went for the chip shot FG b/c they were only down by 3. I'm looking at the game as a whole and what it came down to - IN THE END - was Mahomes being a better, more talent, bigger playmaker than Purdy. JMHO. Wait. So what is the point we are discussing? Is it that Purdy is a maxed out player that wilted on the big stage or that Mahomes is better, more talented and a bigger playmaker? Cause one is absolutely false and the other is probably true. I think you can be an absolute stud and not be better than Mahomes and I think that is the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggs Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 23 minutes ago, T0mShane said: He’s not getting bigger, or faster, and his arm isn’t getting any better. His superpower is his processing speed and that he played a million snaps at Iowa State. He’ll get more snaps and experience here, which will help, but the physical limitations are still gonna be there when the rest of the offensive talent starts peeling off. Deebo had a rough game, so he was able to throw it to his other All Pro receiver…or his All Pro tight end…of his All Pro running back. And I’m not the biggest Lamar guy, but when these teams went head to head, Lamar locked up the MVP while Purdy threw four picks and got yanked for Sam Darnold. Should also point out that Lamar is only 27, if we’re bringing age into it. Purdy is a nice player, but there’s a hard ceiling on that guy. He's a terrific athlete and is no more limited than Montana, Brady of even Joe Burrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 7 minutes ago, Biggs said: He's a terrific athlete and is no more limited than Montana, Brady of even Joe Burrow. These are the numbers of a guard you might take in the third round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, Biggs said: He's a terrific athlete and is no more limited than Montana, Brady of even Joe Burrow. Led the league in QB Rating, QBR, and YPA. 3rd in total touchdown passes on 444 attempts (lowest for any QB who played 16 games). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFlyer Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 punts and FGs that was jets football we saw.. mahomes tried giving the game to purdy but he wouldnt take it.. 4 punts in the second half was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggs Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, Matt39 said: Led the league in QB Rating, QBR, and YPA. 3rd in total touchdown passes on 444 attempts (lowest for any QB who played 16 games). I don't get the knock on him. He's an elite top 5 NFL QB right now. He's got great feel for the game. He has almost as much playoff experience in 2 years as the entire Jets franchise. Don't love his size but he seems to be physically tough enough. The future of the NFL may be freaks like Allen, Lamar and Mahomes. I think there's still going to be room for guys who can process and deliver the ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 minutes ago, Biggs said: I don't get the knock on him. He's an elite top 5 NFL QB right now. He's got great feel for the game. He has almost as much playoff experience in 2 years as the entire Jets franchise. Don't love his size but he seems to be physically tough enough. He’s for whatever reason the only guy who gets knocked for the players around him, even though he wins more than anyone besides Mahomes. The Niners draft well. That’s a good thing. Purdy isn’t going to fall off a cliff because they can’t pay Deebo Samuel. Purdy was making throws to a receiver who ran a 4.8 at the combine on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJCAP2 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 4 minutes ago, Matt39 said: He’s for whatever reason the only guy who gets knocked for the players around him, even though he wins more than anyone besides Mahomes. The Niners draft well. That’s a good thing. Purdy isn’t going to fall off a cliff because they can’t pay Deebo Samuel. Purdy was making throws to a receiver who ran a 4.8 at the combine on Sunday. Goff had the same knocks and very similar career path early in his career. They play the game very similar, but Goff has the bigger arm and is right at the door step of another Super Bowl appearance. If I had to guess, I’d say their careers will be very evenly matched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 8 minutes ago, NYJCAP2 said: Goff had the same knocks and very similar career path early in his career. They play the game very similar, but Goff has the bigger arm and is right at the door step of another Super Bowl appearance. If I had to guess, I’d say their careers will be very evenly matched. I don't think this is true. I feel that Purdy's numbers are considerably better in almost every way. Also, Goff is a fumbler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 24 minutes ago, Matt39 said: He’s for whatever reason the only guy who gets knocked for the players around him, even though he wins more than anyone besides Mahomes. The Niners draft well. That’s a good thing. Purdy isn’t going to fall off a cliff because they can’t pay Deebo Samuel. Purdy was making throws to a receiver who ran a 4.8 at the combine on Sunday. What happens when that receiver who runs a 4.8 is now the WR2 instead of Option4 on that play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: I don't think this is true. I feel that Purdy's numbers are considerably better in almost every way. Also, Goff is a fumbler. Purdy’s numbers are Garoppolo 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, T0mShane said: Pin in this one and we’ll revisit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 58 minutes ago, Matt39 said: do an apples to apples over 21 starts, not seasons. Purdy would outpace Baker and Peyton’s touchdown totals anyways How about we do attempts instead of starts, if we're going for a more granular analysis that seasons. Lamar Jackson had 42 TD passes over his first 571 attempts his first two years, for a 7.4 TD %. Purdy had 44 TD passes over his first 614 attempts his first two years, for a 7.2 TD%. Lamar also had 12 rushing TD's compared to Brocks 3. So Lamar was better. I'm sure there are several others, but it's not worth doing the research frankly. Purdy is a good game manager QB, and a great story, whose stats are materially inflated by playing for the best roster in the NFL his first two years. If that roster starts showing any cracks, and he's not throwing to the likes McCaffrey, Samuel, Kittle, Aiyuk, in a Shanahan-led system, behind a great line with a great Defense, things might be different. Only time will tell if he's the real deal, the next Brady as some here have said, or a guy who falls off without that kind of support around him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 46 minutes ago, Warfish said: How about we do attempts instead of starts, if we're going for a more granular analysis that seasons. Lamar Jackson had 42 TD passes over his first 571 attempts his first two years, for a 7.4 TD %. Purdy had 44 TD passes over his first 614 attempts his first two years, for a 7.2 TD%. Lamar also had 12 rushing TD's compared to Brocks 3. So Lamar was better. I'm sure there are several others, but it's not worth doing the research frankly. Purdy is a good game manager QB, and a great story, whose stats are materially inflated by playing for the best roster in the NFL his first two years. If that roster starts showing any cracks, and he's not throwing to the likes McCaffrey, Samuel, Kittle, Aiyuk, in a Shanahan-led system, behind a great line with a great Defense, things might be different. Only time will tell if he's the real deal, the next Brady as some here have said, or a guy who falls off without that kind of support around him. There are stats beyond TD/attempt, which I shared earlier. He’s led the league in that stat this year and last year too though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeNamathsFurCoat Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 If they're desperate for help, perhaps something could be arranged here 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, Warfish said: How about we do attempts instead of starts, if we're going for a more granular analysis that seasons. Lamar Jackson had 42 TD passes over his first 571 attempts his first two years, for a 7.4 TD %. Purdy had 44 TD passes over his first 614 attempts his first two years, for a 7.2 TD%. Lamar also had 12 rushing TD's compared to Brocks 3. So Lamar was better. I'm sure there are several others, but it's not worth doing the research frankly. Purdy is a good game manager QB, and a great story, whose stats are materially inflated by playing for the best roster in the NFL his first two years. If that roster starts showing any cracks, and he's not throwing to the likes McCaffrey, Samuel, Kittle, Aiyuk, in a Shanahan-led system, behind a great line with a great Defense, things might be different. Only time will tell if he's the real deal, the next Brady as some here have said, or a guy who falls off without that kind of support around him. You guys are comparing a 24 year old kid to Mahomes and Jackson when he was league MVP. Throw Peyton Manning in there and somehow this is supposed to prove to us that means he is another Chad Pennington and will never win "the Big Game?" Seems like a bad joke to me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Just now, #27TheDominator said: You guys are comparing a 24 year old kid to Mahomes and Jackson when he was league MVP. Actually, the comparison you quoted was Purdy at age 23-24 vs. Jackson at age 22-23. i.e. their respective first two seasons in the NFL. Just now, #27TheDominator said: ......this is supposed to prove to us that means he is another Chad Pennington and will never win "the Big Game." Seems like a bad joke to me. He's a better version of Chad Pennington. Several folks here have made a comp. to Montana, who Chad (pre-injury) was often getting comp'ed against, so it's hardly a stretch. An accurate, smart, fast-deciding game manager. I'll be interested to see how Purdy's career proceeds from here, and how he plays if (big if) the 9'ers start getting pillaged for talent and can't keep up in replacing it, especially on Offense. But that's the great part about sports, they always play the games! Only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freestater Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 On 2/12/2024 at 10:36 AM, JustInFudge said: Sorry, what did it come down to? Cant tell if it was, protection, scheme, pass rush or lack of adjustments. It comes down to the quality of your t shirt slogans 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: Actually, the comparison you quoted was Purdy at age 23-24 vs. Jackson at age 22-23. i.e. their respective first two seasons in the NFL. He's a better version of Chad Pennington. Several folks here have made a comp. to Montana, who Chad (pre-injury) was often getting comp'ed against, so it's hardly a stretch. An accurate, smart, fast-deciding game manager. I'll be interested to see how Purdy's career proceeds from here, and how he plays if (big if) the 9'ers start getting pillaged for talent and can't keep up in replacing it, especially on Offense. But that's the great part about sports, they always play the games! Only time will tell. The 49ers have been getting pillaged for talent since Harbaugh. We whine about wasting a pick on Wilson. They traded three 1st round picks to draft Trey Lance. Since that date they won 35 regular season games, been to the NFC Conference Championship 3 times and the super bowl once. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 13 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: The 49ers have been getting pillaged for talent since Harbaugh. We whine about wasting a pick on Wilson. They traded three 1st round picks to draft Trey Lance. Since that date they won 35 regular season games, been to the NFC Conference Championship 3 times and the super bowl once. You’d think Purdy was Christian Ponder or Chad Henne. Statistically, he’s on track to be a great player for a very long time. And he was coming off of Tommy John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 24 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: We whine about wasting a pick on Wilson. "Whine"? Uh...ok. 24 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: They traded three 1st round picks to draft Trey Lance. Since that date they won 35 regular season games, been to the NFC Conference Championship 3 times and the super bowl once. Getting unprecedently lucky when drafting a Mr. Irrelevant QB is a hell of thing, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: "Whine"? Uh...ok. Getting unprecedently lucky when drafting a Mr. Irrelevant QB is a hell of thing, isn't it? If he is what you say he is, then I wouldn't say they were "unprecedently lucky." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 14 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: If he is what you say he is, then I wouldn't say they were "unprecedently lucky." No? Have there been other Mr. Irrelevant QB's who played somewhere in the gulf between a lesser Joe Montana and better Chad Pennington? If so, I must admit my ignorance, as I am admittedly unaware of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFlyer Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 hours ago, Trotter said: that had to be a bet that he lost you dont think it goes well with his hour glass figure? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepPep Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said: Wait. So what is the point we are discussing? Is it that Purdy is a maxed out player that wilted on the big stage or that Mahomes is better, more talented and a bigger playmaker? Cause one is absolutely false and the other is probably true. I think you can be an absolute stud and not be better than Mahomes and I think that is the case. I don't know exactly what others have been discussing. A number of things I'm sure. But my point was that the chiefs won PRIMARILY because Mahomes is better, more talented and a bigger playmaker than Purdy. Purdy is great. Deserves all the kudos. But my point was that the Niners did not lose because of a bad play here and there. A missed extra point or a mussed punt. They lost because Mahomes outplayed them. And to be exact, outplayed Purdy in what came down to be a QB duel in the final stages of OT. Again, this doesn't make Purdy a 'maxed out player who wilted on the big stage'. Not sure where that came from. Not from me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 18 minutes ago, PepPep said: I don't know exactly what others have been discussing. A number of things I'm sure. But my point was that the chiefs won PRIMARILY because Mahomes is better, more talented and a bigger playmaker than Purdy. Purdy is great. Deserves all the kudos. But my point was that the Niners did not lose because of a bad play here and there. A missed extra point or a mussed punt. They lost because Mahomes outplayed them. And to be exact, outplayed Purdy in what came down to be a QB duel in the final stages of OT. Again, this doesn't make Purdy a 'maxed out player who wilted on the big stage'. Not sure where that came from. Not from me. Mahomes also outplayed Jackson, Allen, and Tua. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 The two points below are not mutually exclusive. 1) Brock Purdy has played really well to date on a stacked team for a fantastic offensive mind. He's maximizing his teammates' talents and taking what the defense gives - which is exactly what any great QB should do. He wasn't the reason the 49ers lost, but he also wouldn't have been the SB MVP because he wasn't the driving factor for them to win. 2) Handing Brock Purdy a QB1 contract will be a significant risk because as the talent around him begins to erode, he will be asked to shoulder far more responsibility for moving that offense. Given the below, it's fair to believe that he will suffer a hard regression. This is an offense that relied heavily on the run game and elite talent at the skill positions: 49ers had the least attempted pass plays, the 8th most attempted run plays, and CMC had the most weighted opportunities in '23 Purdy had the most attempted play-action plays of '23 Purdy had the 16th most air yards in the league but had the highest YACs/completion of '23. The 49ers had the second fewest drops of all teams in '23, but Purdy threw the 17th most interceptable passes in '23. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 14 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said: The two points below are not mutually exclusive. 1) Brock Purdy has played really well to date on a stacked team for a fantastic offensive mind. He's maximizing his teammates' talents and taking what the defense gives - which is exactly what any great QB should do. He wasn't the reason the 49ers lost, but he also wouldn't have been the SB MVP because he wasn't the driving factor for them to win. 2) Handing Brock Purdy a QB1 contract will be a significant risk because as the talent around him begins to erode, he will be asked to shoulder far more responsibility for moving that offense. Given the below, it's fair to believe that he will suffer a hard regression. This is an offense that relied heavily on the run game and elite talent at the skill positions: 49ers had the least attempted pass plays, the 8th most attempted run plays, and CMC had the most weighted opportunities in '23 Purdy had the most attempted play-action plays of '23 Purdy had the 16th most air yards in the league but had the highest YACs/completion of '23. The 49ers had the second fewest drops of all teams in '23, but Purdy threw the 17th most interceptable passes in '23. I don’t think I’ve ever seen this level of concern over paying a player after their second season. He’s going to play on his rookie deal next year and the 49ers will be the favorite to win the NFC again. They don’t even have to extend him next year either. I don’t recall hearing this about Hurts and his advanced metrics were way lower than Purdys. And now the Eagles actually do have a major problem on their hands. The 49ers are well run and have drafted well for a while now. If we’re going to narrow everything down to one game, then we have to do it for the other QBs too. it seems like we are creating problems for this specific player when all he’s done to date is put up monster numbers and win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepPep Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 57 minutes ago, Matt39 said: Mahomes also outplayed Jackson, Allen, and Tua. Mahomes is better than ALL of those QBs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, PepPep said: I don't know exactly what others have been discussing. A number of things I'm sure. But my point was that the chiefs won PRIMARILY because Mahomes is better, more talented and a bigger playmaker than Purdy. Purdy is great. Deserves all the kudos. But my point was that the Niners did not lose because of a bad play here and there. A missed extra point or a mussed punt. They lost because Mahomes outplayed them. And to be exact, outplayed Purdy in what came down to be a QB duel in the final stages of OT. Again, this doesn't make Purdy a 'maxed out player who wilted on the big stage'. Not sure where that came from. Not from me. I get it. We are not much in disagreement, but those direct quotes were made in this thread - even if not by you. I don't really agree that the Niners didn't lose because of a fumble, a missed PAT, or missed punt. I think that is precisely why they lost. I agree however, that the difference in the type of players they are means that Mahomes is going to overcome those things, but Purdy is more of a play within the framework kind of QB. I don't think that limits him to being Pennington or Goff. The same thing happened to Josh Allen a couple of years ago. Fact is, the last three times he walked off the field, Purdy had the lead. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: Fact is, the last three times he walked off the field, Purdy had the lead. I keep saying this, but actually Purdy never took over a possession and left the field without a lead from the 2nd quarter on. First drive McCaffrey fumbled in FG range. Second they punted. From the third drive on, every time that Purdy took the field he didn't leave until they had a lead. Unless you count kneeling with 3 seconds left in regulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 13 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: a play within the framework kind of QB Serious question: did you have to consciously replace “system” with “framework” here to avoid referring to Purdy as a system QB? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeardedSavage Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 18 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: I get it. We are not much in disagreement, but those direct quotes were made in this thread - even if not by you. I don't really agree that the Niners didn't lose because of a fumble, a missed PAT, or missed punt. I think that is precisely why they lost. I agree however, that the difference in the type of players they are means that Mahomes is going to overcome those things, but Purdy is more of a play within the framework kind of QB. I don't think that limits him to being Pennington or Goff. The same thing happened to Josh Allen a couple of years ago. Fact is, the last three times he walked off the field, Purdy had the lead. I think this is the key here. It's not that the other phases of the game/parts of the team don't matter. But what's more to the point here is what was the most important contributing factor to the win? It was Mahomes. Having a truly elite quarterback in this league, especially with the rule changes of the last twenty years, is by far the most important variable in any game. Purdy is good, but if he and Mahomes switched teams, the win/loss record of both would change drastically and the 49ers would have a dynasty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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