Vikings Defense

[Barry McCockinner]

The Jets are fortunate that they'll have several weeks of this stuff in the can before they face the Vikings in a couple of weeks.

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Vikings D looks among best in league

Brian Flores is an excellent DC

Rex Ryan type of attacking mindset, multiple fronts, loves to disguise and change looks post-snap

[JiFtheOracle]

Am I genius for knowing it was Cover 2?

[nj meadowlands]

Saleh and Hackett got this.

[THE BARON]

8 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Vikings D looks among best in league

Brian Flores is an excellent DC

Rex Ryan type of attacking mindset, multiple fronts, loves to disguise and change looks post-snap

just the type of defense to destroy an average qb while giving an elite qb like rodgers plenty of chances to burn them.  

if rodgers is 100 % for that game, the jets win.  

[Joe W. Namath]

Rodgers will torch them.  Hes seen it all.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

14 minutes ago, JiFtheOracle said:

Am I genius for knowing it was Cover 2?

I would agree that might be a fairly easy diagnosis IF the safeties and not the corners were deep but the creative part here isn't the pre-snap alignment, it's the usage of players.  Safety plays the role of corner and Corner plays the role of safety.   

[kdels62]

lol. Before the play I was like “if the blitz comes the slot is hot.” Otherwise  the second the blitz drops out read the nickel to see if the seam is covered, it wasn’t. Am I a genius? 

[BreeceHallofFame]

They are exotic but don’t have elite players

[Barry McCockinner]

24 minutes ago, JiFtheOracle said:

Am I genius for knowing it was Cover 2?

 

4 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

lol. Before the play I was like “if the blitz comes the slot is hot.” Otherwise  the second the blitz drops out read the nickel to see if the seam is covered, it wasn’t. Am I a genius? 

look at this place full of football savants

I think the fact that the deep guys here are CB's and the S's are at the LOS is what makes it confusing but this is above my pay grade.

[#27TheDominator]

Didn't the Texans get a 6 yard gain on that play?  Genius!  Masterful!

[Barry McCockinner]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Didn't the Texans get a 6 yard gain on that play?  Genius!  Masterful!

It's early yet but the Vikings have the #1 DVOA defense and Flores is a good DC. I think it's a good example of how they're giving offenses a struggle with the presnap reads, despite the game breaking QB scramble result. Rodgers is a master of figuring it out presnap - excited to see how he does against Flores.

[kdels62]

30 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

 

look at this place full of football savants

I think the fact that the deep guys here are CB's and the S's are at the LOS is what makes it confusing but this is above my pay grade.

I’m glad you recognize my genius. 
 

But seriously this one play in a vacuum isn’t confusing. The question is how many times did the Vikings do what out of this look and what have they put on tape previously. If this look occurs more than once in the game why wasn’t there a way to tell if this was a blitz-man look vs a zone look. Move one of the running backs to see how the defense responds to motion if you’re trying to figure out man vs. zone. More importantly I don’t see how you think it’s straight man coverage when the CB is 10 yards off with outside leverage and the safety is ten yards off with his eyes in the backfield and no one has leverage on the slot WR. If I see that sh*t imagine how easy it is for Rodgers.

[DJF71]

Are they doing this to hide the lack of talent on defense?

[kdels62]

8 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

It's early yet but the Vikings have the #1 DVOA defense and Flores is a good DC. I think it's a good example of how they're giving offenses a struggle with the presnap reads, despite the game breaking QB scramble result. Rodgers is a master of figuring it out presnap - excited to see how he does against Flores.

I just want to be clear my beef isn’t with Stroud or the Texans missing the read (this is much harder on the field) it’s with these “analysts” clearly making a bad read instead of discussing the formation and tells they would look for during a film session. 

[#27TheDominator]

39 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

It's early yet but the Vikings have the #1 DVOA defense and Flores is a good DC. I think it's a good example of how they're giving offenses a struggle with the presnap reads, despite the game breaking QB scramble result. Rodgers is a master of figuring it out presnap - excited to see how he does against Flores.

Nothing against the Vikings.  It's just one play.  These "exotic" looks usually fool young inexperienced QBs.  That's not Rodgers.  OTOH, Rodgers does a bunch of pre-snap reading and this probably negates a bunch of that.  Should be interesting.  I expect 3 delay of game penalties. 

[Barry McCockinner]

6 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I just want to be clear my beef isn’t with Stroud or the Texans missing the read (this is much harder on the field) it’s with these “analysts” clearly making a bad read instead of discussing the formation and tells they would look for during a film session. 

so you think these guys are just pretending to be confused for show?

[kdels62]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

so you think these guys are just pretending to be confused for show?

Yes. And specifically the most experienced TV guy, Acho, keeps putting words in the other guys’ mouths who go along with it so as not to slow down the flow of the show and keeping it simple for entertainment purposes. Good for TV, bad for analysis, fun for message boards.

[NYs Stepchild]

The center whiffed on the DT here and instantly blew up the play, otherwise this is an easy completion to the slot over the middle. 

I guess you could say this was a well disguised defense because no one would think to try and cover wideouts with safeties. I mean they couldn't cover these guys. That's what I mean. 

Now if Rodgers sees Wilson with tight coverage by a safety, I'll just bet he has a special signal he's calling for immediately. 

[#27TheDominator]

The QB is supposed to be guessing man because the corners are 10+ yards deep and looking in the backfield?  They line a S up over Diggs and Stroud's first guess is going to be "Hmmm, they must be manning up?  Empty man!  Cover Zero!"  I would argue that the success of the play was not based on a disguised coverage but the fact that the NT ran through the A gap untouched so fast that he couldn't remain upright and stumbled at Stroud's feet.

[Rich Thornburgh]

6 hours ago, BreeceHallofFame said:

They are exotic but don’t have elite players

They got a lot of DB’s that can cover either man to man or zone.  I watched a lot of the giants game nobody could get open for Jones even when they went 5 wide in the 4th quarter in garbage time.
 

this may change the NFL next several years.  All the emphasis in past several decades has been on superstar Edge Rushers and Interior Linemen.  DB’s who became superstars were lock down CB’s like Revis and Jalen Ramsey or the “big hitter” Safeties like Jamal Adams and Kam Chancellor.

 

But what if you have 6-7 DB’s on the roster who can all cover?  

[Rich Thornburgh]

5 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

The QB is supposed to be guessing man because the corners are 10+ yards deep and looking in the backfield?  They line a S up over Diggs and Stroud's first guess is going to be "Hmmm, they must be manning up?  Empty man!  Cover Zero!"  I would argue that the success of the play was not based on a disguised coverage but the fact that the NT ran through the A gap untouched so fast that he couldn't remain upright and stumbled at Stroud's feet.

If the NT is running up the A gap untouched it’s either 1) multiple failed blocking assignments due to negligence and stupidity or 2) multiple failed blocking assignments due to disguised coverage and/or blitz

 

The Creeper Blitz can cause this for example by disguising a basic nickel or dime zone coverage as a casino blitz.

[#27TheDominator]

22 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

If the NT is running up the A gap untouched it’s either 1) multiple failed blocking assignments due to negligence and stupidity or 2) multiple failed blocking assignments due to disguised coverage and/or blitz

 

The Creeper Blitz can cause this for example by disguising a basic nickel or dime zone coverage as a casino blitz.

. . .and how exactly does any of this relate to some alleged man look being cover 2?

[Rich Thornburgh]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

. . .and how exactly does any of this relate to some alleged man look being cover 2?

Both are examples of disguised coverages

[JetPotato]

I must have missed something with scheduling. Probably way behind, but...

Why are we playing the Vikings this year? Didn't it used to go that you'd only play one division from the other conference? So for now it's NFC West + one more? 

[slats]

7 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

I must have missed something with scheduling. Probably way behind, but...

Why are we playing the Vikings this year? Didn't it used to go that you'd only play one division from the other conference? So for now it's NFC West + one more? 

The 17th game

[JiFtheOracle]

18 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I would agree that might be a fairly easy diagnosis IF the safeties and not the corners were deep but the creative part here isn't the pre-snap alignment, it's the usage of players.  Safety plays the role of corner and Corner plays the role of safety.   

 

18 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

 

look at this place full of football savants

I think the fact that the deep guys here are CB's and the S's are at the LOS is what makes it confusing but this is above my pay grade.

It is very plausible, my subconscious just went right to Cover 2 because the entire league is playing some version of it right now but these bozo's acting like nobody has ever disguised coverage in that fashion is just silly and its why I never tune into this mind numbing gossip talk shows and I dont understand who actually does and why.  

Further, and I know they probably werent taking it to this extent, but does anyone think that Rodgers wont recognize this coverage at the LOS?  The video also showed that this particular offense didnt use any motion to recognize that coverage or identify the Mike...nobody in the league is better presnap than Rodgers.  

 

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

The 17th game

It's like the 19th hole!

[Mr. Rogers]

19 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Rodgers will torch them.  Hes seen it all.

I am hopeful for this too. A good QB can not only beat the blitz but identify it and use it to his advantage, as long as his OL gives him just enough time.

A key will be using motion and audibles at the line, so hopefully Hackett and Rodgers iron that out. Identifying a blitz and switching to a run play the opposite way, or using motion to identify man coverage and advantageous slot/TE matchups for quick passes, will be key. I think Rodgers can do that. If they were generating this kinda pressure with 4 guys THEN I'd be worried.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

18 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

The center whiffed on the DT here and instantly blew up the play, otherwise this is an easy completion to the slot over the middle. 

I guess you could say this was a well disguised defense because no one would think to try and cover wideouts with safeties. I mean they couldn't cover these guys. That's what I mean. 

Now if Rodgers sees Wilson with tight coverage by a safety, I'll just bet he has a special signal he's calling for immediately. 

Hey, I wanna know why you stole my quote?

[JetPotato]

1 hour ago, slats said:

The 17th game

Right, but shouldn't that be in the conference?