So I Guess the A-Rod vs D-Wright Argument is pretty much over, huh?

[MiguelBormand]

Is there anybody who still would rather have that nervous wreck at third over David Wright?

.317 21HR 77RBI 62R 11SB

.282 20HR 68RBI 64R 9SB

Beyond those numbers... we have the unstatistical category of clutch late inning hits, which anyone who has watched baseball this year knows that Wright must be at least 3 or 4 to 1 what A-Rod has been in that category.

Lets at least compare how they stack up situationally though:

RISP: .376 RISP (2 OUTS): .360

Men On, 2 Outs: .375

RISP: .305 RISP (2 OUTS): .318

Men On, 2 Outs: .266

In addition to that though Wright has 11 Errors, which is 10th worst among the top starting 3B... not too great, but Rodriguez has 16 errors at third, the most for any third baseman in the league.

The final note...

Alex Rodriguez is getting paid $25,000,000 this year

David Wright is making around $350,000.

Anyone still would rather have him at third?

[madmike1]

Wright is having a slightly better year then Arod though this is a HORRIBLE year for arod. This comparison is stupid. Arod is a first ballot hall of famer. Wright is a great player but he's got a hell of a lot more to prove before he's on Arod's all time great level.

[Bob]

I'm gonna need more than a partial season to declare Wright better than Arod.

Right now, though, Wright's great. No question.

[MiguelBormand]

So if you were building a team, you both would rather have A-Rod on it then Wright?

[madmike1]

So if you were building a team, you both would rather have A-Rod on it then Wright?

Wright's age makes it an argument but i'd still rather have Arod. I doubt Wright will ever put up numbers like arod has throughout his carrer. Money also shouldn't really count because the yankees pay arod 16 million not 25 and i'll bet wright gets 16 or more when he hits free agentcy.

[Exit 117]

Wright's age makes it an argument but i'd still rather have Arod. I doubt Wright will ever put up numbers like arod has throughout his carrer. Money also shouldn't really count because the yankees pay arod 16 million not 25 and i'll bet wright gets 16 or more when he hits free agentcy.

He'll never hit free agency. He'll be a Met for career.

[shawn306]

Sorry guys. I'll keep Arod.

Yeah he is a basketcase but he is still the top 5 best in the game.

[madmike1]

He'll never hit free agency. He'll be a Met for career.

he's still getting 16+ million. No hometown discount.

[Blackout]

Is there anybody who still would rather have that nervous wreck at third over David Wright?

.317 21HR 77RBI 62R 11SB

.282 20HR 68RBI 64R 9SB

and I'm sure alot of people in 1961 thought Norm Cash was better than Willie McCovey too, huh?

Lets compare a larger sample than 90 games. How about 251?

since 2005 started:

David Wright: .310, 48 homers, 179 RBI, 161 runs, 114 BBs, 28 SBs (10 caught) in 928 at bats.

A-god: .308, 68 homers, 198 RBI, 188 runs, 144 BBs, 30 SB (9 caught) in 946 at bats

so Alex slaughters him in every stat except for the almost equal batting average (and A-rod more than makes up for it with the extra walks).

Beyond those numbers... we have the unstatistical category of clutch late inning hits, which anyone who has watched baseball this year knows that Wright must be at least 3 or 4 to 1 what A-Rod has been in that category.

Lets at least compare how they stack up situationally though:

RISP: .376 RISP (2 OUTS): .360

Men On, 2 Outs: .375

RISP: .305 RISP (2 OUTS): .318

Men On, 2 Outs: .266

you can have men on with 2 outs an a 10 run lead, so what the hell do these stats matter? Wright has done nothing of significane in his entire career at this point. If he got a season ending injury tomorrow, nobody would remember his name in 20 years outside of a few hardcore Mets fans.

Until Wright does something like, say, get an 11th inning double, steal 3rd and score home on a wild pitch to clinch a playoff series against the Twins, I don't even feel the need to praise his "clutchness".

In addition to that though Wright has 11 Errors, which is 10th worst among the top starting 3B... not too great, but Rodriguez has 16 errors at third, the most for any third baseman in the league.

Yep, A-rod's defense this year is pretty shakey. Can't stick up for him on that, granted Wright isn't exactly Mike Schmidt either

The final note...

Alex Rodriguez is getting paid $25,000,000 this year

David Wright is making around $350,000.

This is the most irrelevant point in your entire case. A-rod is an established veteran who's had the chance to hit the FA market and cash in. Wright is a 23 year old who has only played one full season in his career. Who EXPECTS

an unestablished player to make millions? That's right, nobody.

Anyone still would rather have him at third?

For the next 5-6 years, I'll take A-rod thank you very much.

[MiguelBormand]

Wright's age makes it an argument but i'd still rather have Arod. I doubt Wright will ever put up numbers like arod has throughout his carrer.

Once again this is a common flaw Yankees present in this argument...

You may doubt that Wright will ever put up the same numbers A-Rod did, but I think it's pretty safe to say, (barring some miracle comeback), that A-Rod wont ever put up the same numbers that he used to.

Sorry guys. I'll keep Arod.

Yeah he is a basketcase but he is still the top 5 best in the game.

When? Last year?

Definatly not this year... Besides the fact that even when u look at his great stats last year, he didnt perform in the clutch...

[madmike1]

So arod won the MVP last year but because he's having a year where's he's a bit below his carrer avg's he's done? At 31 years old? I doubt it.

[Blackout]

Once again this is a common flaw Yankees present in this argument...

You may doubt that Wright will ever put up the same numbers A-Rod did, but I think it's pretty safe to say, (barring some miracle comeback), that A-Rod wont ever put up the same numbers that he used to.

[MiguelBormand]

So arod won the MVP last year but because he's having a year where's he's a bit below his carrer avg's he's done? At 31 years old? I doubt it.

Hey, I wasnt the one boo-ing him in the playoffs last year, Yankees fans were

Lets compare a larger sample than 90 games. How about 251?

since 2005 started:

David Wright: .310, 48 homers, 179 RBI, 161 runs, 114 BBs, 28 SBs (10 caught) in 928 at bats.

A-god: .308, 68 homers, 198 RBI, 188 runs, 144 BBs, 30 SB (9 caught) in 946 at bats

so Alex slaughters him in every stat except for the almost equal batting average (and A-rod more than makes up for it with the extra walks).

He slaughters him? I think you are confusing "Slaughter" with "Marginally out-performing" maybe? Those numbers are very comparable especially when you consider that Wright was playing for a team that did not compare NEARLY AS WELL in any offensive categories.

Get It?

If not, lets break it down for you.

The Yankees were pretty much 2nd in nearly all offensive categories last year. The Mets were 18th. When your team puts less men on base, you can drive in less runs (RBI)... When your team drives in less men, you score less runs... You could even argue that a team with a worse offense affects how many walks a player gets...

"Slaughter"?

you can have men on with 2 outs an a 10 run lead, so what the hell do these stats matter? Wright has done nothing of significane in his entire career at this point. If he got a season ending injury tomorrow, nobody would remember his name in 20 years outside of a few hardcore Mets fans.

You can also have men on with 2 outs and 1 run lead. Players who get hits in tight 2 out situations are usually considered more "clutch" then players who dont, and we can safely say that Wright is Slaughtering him in that category.

And if A-Rod got a season ending injury tommorrow, who would remember him? A lot of people... mainly as a player who was really talented but never could come through in the clutch, and never won a ring.

Actually, did you know that after he left Seattle, they won 15 more games without him?

After he left Texas, they wone 18 more games without him?

There is actually strong statistical evidence that most of A-Rod's power numbers come only after the outcome of the game is in doubt, unfortunatly I dont have access to, or know where to find those stats.

For the next 5-6 years, I'll take A-rod thank you very much.

Damn, the way A-Rod is playing right now imagining him at 37 years old compared to a 29 year old David Wright?

uhhh....

[madmike1]

What does booing have to do with his stats and to objectivly comparing him to wright.

[Blackout]

Hey, I wasnt the one boo-ing him in the playoffs last year, Yankees fans were

He slaughters him? I think you are confusing "Slaughter" with "Marginally out-performing" maybe? Those numbers are very comparable especially when you consider that Wright was playing for a team that did not compare NEARLY AS WELL in any offensive categories.

Get It?

If not, lets break it down for you.

The Yankees were pretty much 2nd in nearly all offensive categories last year. The Mets were 18th. When your team puts less men on base, you can drive in less runs (RBI)... When your team drives in less men, you score less runs... You could even argue that a team with a worse offense affects how many walks a player gets...

"Slaughter"?

You can also have men on with 2 outs and 1 run lead. Players who get hits in tight 2 out situations are usually considered more "clutch" then players who dont, and we can safely say that Wright is Slaughtering him in that category.

And if A-Rod got a season ending injury tommorrow, who would remember him? A lot of people... mainly as a player who was really talented but never could come through in the clutch, and never won a ring.

Actually, did you know that after he left Seattle, they won 15 more games without him?

After he left Texas, they wone 18 more games without him?

There is actually strong statistical evidence that most of A-Rod's power numbers come only after the outcome of the game is in doubt, unfortunatly I dont have access to, or know where to find those stats.

Damn, the way A-Rod is playing right now imagining him at 37 years old compared to a 29 year old David Wright?

uhhh....

Yep, I'd say having over 20 more homers, runs and RBI's in only 18 more at-bats counts as slaughtering.

I like how you continue to stick to your anti-clutch claim but fail to comment on those boxscores I showed you, 2 of my favorite moments of the 2005 season. Division clinching games don't mean anything?

or the 2004 series clinching run part, that doesn't mean anything?

David Wright hasn't even PLAYED in a meaningful game, let alone scored a series winning run in one.

Oh, and Seattle was better in 2001 because they brought in MVP Ichiro, and Texas was better in '04 because they brought in pitching and Texiera emerged. So you can give up on those arguements because they aren't making much sense.

[Maxman]

Once again this is a common flaw Yankees present in this argument...

You may doubt that Wright will ever put up the same numbers A-Rod did, but I think it's pretty safe to say, (barring some miracle comeback), that A-Rod wont ever put up the same numbers that he used to.

Miguel,

Great thread. Welcome to JetNation.

Why do you say that AROD won't put up those #'s again? He has a pretty good track record. As recent as last year. Hell as recent as June even (or whenever he won player of the month).

If you are building a team and money is a factor you would take Wright. If money is not a factor then you would go AROD because his body of work is longer.

Wright's year has been AMAZING though.

[MiguelBormand]

Yep, I'd say having over 20 more homers, runs and RBI's in only 18 more at-bats counts as slaughtering.

Did you fail to read my post?

I will repost it for you:

He slaughters him? I think you are confusing "Slaughter" with "Marginally out-performing" maybe? Those numbers are very comparable especially when you consider that Wright was playing for a team that did not compare NEARLY AS WELL in any offensive categories.

Get It?

If not, lets break it down for you.

The Yankees were pretty much 2nd in nearly all offensive categories last year. The Mets were 18th. When your team puts less men on base, you can drive in less runs (RBI)... When your team drives in less men, you score less runs... You could even argue that a team with a worse offense affects how many walks a player gets...

"Slaughter"?

Did he hit more home runs? Yeah, definatly... then again he's playing in a tiny stadium whereas Wright has to play half his games in a stadium with one of the largest outfields, with what players say also provides one of the worst vision lines for hitters.

I like how you continue to stick to your anti-clutch claim but fail to comment on those boxscores I showed you, 2 of my favorite moments of the 2005 season. Division clinching games don't mean anything?

or the 2004 series clinching run part, that doesn't mean anything?

Dude, one of those "favorite moments" of yours was in JULY...

Wright has had at least 3 or 4 of those "Favorite moments" so far this year... But if you notice I havent called him "clutch" yet because he hasnt done it in the postseason...

But if the regular season is any indicator, he definatly seems to be showing signs of being "Clutch"... beyond that, in the regular season, there are stats that actually prove it. Do you not recall the study Elias Sports did to find out? It was something about Late inning hits when it mattered... A-Rod was terrible in that category. For his career.

Oh, and Seattle was better in 2001 because they brought in MVP Ichiro, and Texas was better in '04 because they brought in pitching and Texiera emerged. So you can give up on those arguements because they aren't making much sense.

No, it actually does make sense though.

I'm not saying there is a direct causality between A-Rod leaving a team and the team getting better, But it is funny that a team would not only not get worse, but SIGNIFICANTLY better once a player who is supposed to be an "All Time Great" leaves the team...

[NIGHT STALKER]

I'll add my two cents worth...booing is part of the game. Fans expect a lot from players whether it's warranted or not, they will boo. Mickey Mantle was booed like crazy until Roger Maris came along. Fans thought Mickey was going to be Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig and Joe DiMaggio all rolled up into one.

Do you really think if Wright hits a wall (personally, I like the kid and don't think he will), that Met fans won't boo this guy...especially if he fails to produce in clutch situations and is making the big bucks like AROD?

Let's wait and see the final numbers when the season ends and have another look at the final results.

[Barton]

BigQueenJermaine, is that you?

[MiguelBormand]

I'll add my two cents worth...booing is part of the game. Fans expect a lot from players whether it's warranted or not, they will boo. Mickey Mantle was booed like crazy until Roger Maris came along. Fans thought Mickey was going to be Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig and Joe DiMaggio all rolled up into one.

Do you really think if Wright hits a wall (personally, I like the kid and don't think he will), that Met fans won't boo this guy...especially if he fails to produce in clutch situations and is making the big bucks like AROD?

Let's wait and see the final numbers when the season ends and have another look at the final results.

Dont count on Wright ever getting booed...

first of all, there's differences between Yankee and Mets fans that I dont even want to get into, but it seems to me Yankee fans are a lot more fickle... they are so used to winning that they flip out when a player underperforms and demand he be traded. Hell, they were even booing JETER a few years ago

Mets fans didnt even boo Cliff Floyd when he was hitting like .100 for a stretch of 2 months.... Never booed Piazza. Did Beltran get boos? yeah, a few... because we didnt know him... He was a quiet guy who came in with a huge contract and was not doing anything for us... I'm not saying Mets fans should have booed him, but that's why.

Beyond that, I cant even blame Yankee fans that much for Booing A-rod... He kind of comes off as a jerk, and he never performs in the clutch... If i was a yankee fan I would probably boo him too... There is some things you just should not say as an athlete... I mean this guy literally said something to the extent of "My slump is so frustrating because I'm such a talented player"... No one wants to hear that... Then after his 3 error game he comes out of the showers saying that "I had a brilliant game a few days ago"... regardless of whether he really did or did not, or whether he's super talented or not, no one wants to hear a guy call himself brilliant and talented... it's just obnoxious and annoying.

[Sharrow]

This year. Wright > G-Rod. Maybe forever in NY, Wright > G-Rod. Personally, I'd take Wright at 3B and G-Rod at SS.

[GREENSMACKS]

Wright is having a slightly better year then Arod though this is a HORRIBLE year for arod. This comparison is stupid. Arod is a first ballot hall of famer. Wright is a great player but he's got a hell of a lot more to prove before he's on Arod's all time great level.

take the AROD out of your A WHole. his stats are on par with every year so i guess eveery year is an off year or aka he sucks

[GimmeShelter]

As a Met fan I love Wright but when ARod retires he will be considered a top 10 All -Time player or better.

His "off" season, which 95% of MLB players would take in a minute gets magnified because the Yankee fans and NY media while never admitting to it, blow it out of proportion because they want Jeter to be considered the better player of the two. It's been that way from day one of ARod's arrival.

I've never seen a defending MVP, 1st ballot Hall Of Famer with a great shot at breaking the all-time HR record take such abuse from his own fanbase.

The fact that his fanbase is in NY turns the nonsense that he can't handle pressure into a national story. Hear it said enough times and it becomes gospel to some.

Mantle went through the same to a much lesser extent as he was replacing the golden child Joe Dimaggio. Once Maris came along the booing and abuse shifted away from Mickey.

ARod may be too image concious and not one of the boys in the clubhouse but he's a superstar.

[Gainzo]

Arod can

[Blackout]

Did you fail to read my post?

I will repost it for you:

He slaughters him? I think you are confusing "Slaughter" with "Marginally out-performing" maybe? Those numbers are very comparable especially when you consider that Wright was playing for a team that did not compare NEARLY AS WELL in any offensive categories.

Get It?

If not, lets break it down for you.

The Yankees were pretty much 2nd in nearly all offensive categories last year. The Mets were 18th. When your team puts less men on base, you can drive in less runs (RBI)... When your team drives in less men, you score less runs... You could even argue that a team with a worse offense affects how many walks a player gets...

"Slaughter"?

Did he hit more home runs? Yeah, definatly... then again he's playing in a tiny stadium whereas Wright has to play half his games in a stadium with one of the largest outfields, with what players say also provides one of the worst vision lines for hitters.

Dude, one of those "favorite moments" of yours was in JULY...

Wright has had at least 3 or 4 of those "Favorite moments" so far this year... But if you notice I havent called him "clutch" yet because he hasnt done it in the postseason...

But if the regular season is any indicator, he definatly seems to be showing signs of being "Clutch"... beyond that, in the regular season, there are stats that actually prove it. Do you not recall the study Elias Sports did to find out? It was something about Late inning hits when it mattered... A-Rod was terrible in that category. For his career.

did you intentionally ignore my mentioning of A-rod's game 4 vs the Twins in the 2004 playoffs? Thats getting it done in the postseason, and you fail to acknowledge it.

"close and late" situations are so skewed, getting a go ahead RBI after going 0-3 is no more important than getting an RBI in the first inning and strikiing out in the 9th inning. It all has the same impact on the game, one just looks prettier than the other. Baseball wasn't meant to be pretty, now was it?

How many batting titles has Wright won?

How many home run titles has Wright won?

How about MVPs?

Gold gloves?

10 RBI games?

Are you going to tell me A-rod's never had a good playoff game before? Here's a win-or-go-home game, check out his line:

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B10170NYA2000.htm

He went 4-5 with a homer and 2 doubles, its not his fault his team sucked balls and was up against a better opponent.

I'm not saying there is a direct causality between A-Rod leaving a team and the team getting better, But it is funny that a team would not only not get worse, but SIGNIFICANTLY better once a player who is supposed to be an "All Time Great" leaves the team...

seriously, are you kidding? Texas gets better pitching and Mark Texiera breaks out, and Seattle gets freaking Ichiro and their pitching staff's ERA+ goes from 101 to 119. ANY ****ing team will improve under those circumstances.

[Jetsfan80]

If Alex Rodriguez is such an indispensible, great player, one of the greatest of all time, then why is he on his 3rd team, and why, exactly, is he better known for lack of clutch hits and poor defense right now?

Wright hasn't had an opportunity to hit in a big game, but A-Rod has HAD the opportunities and FAILED in nearly every one of them.

I'll take David Wright, and I will trust that Omar Minaya never lets him get to the free agent market, as A-Rod has been allowed to do twice in his career.

[FITM]

How many batting titles has Wright won?

How many home run titles has Wright won?

How about MVPs?

Gold gloves?

10 RBI games?

Wright's only 23. Why don't you let him have his career first...

[shawn306]

Are you guys freakin kidding me.

Mets fans basically booed Piazza out of town once his numbers started going down. What A-Rod is getting now is what Piazza got from 2002-2005.

For what it is worth. I don't know if A-Rod will ever adjust to the big spotlight of NYC. He is way too tight and way to worried about what other people think of him.

I have seen so mainly guys get eaten up and spit out by New York. Steve Kemp, Saberhagen, Vince Coleman, Theo Fluery, Luc Robatille, Pavel Bure, Charles Smith. Maybe A-Rod falls into that category. He expects too much of himself and we expect too much of him. He just needs to relax and say F-it.

When all is said and done though A-Rod's numbers career numbers will dwarf David Wright.

[JonEJet]

Wright hasn't had an opportunity to hit in a big game, but A-Rod has HAD the opportunities and FAILED in nearly every one of them.

.

He's the defending ALMVP

You need to really STFU

[AFJF]

If Alex Rodriguez is such an indispensible, great player, one of the greatest of all time, then why is he on his 3rd team, and why, exactly, is he better known for lack of clutch hits and poor defense right now?

Thats easy, Tom Hicks is the answer to both of those questions.

Team #1, The Mariners couldn't afford him

Team #2, The Rangers could more than afford him so Tom Hicks paid him more money than any player in history is/was worth.

Team #3, The Yankees told Tom Hicks that if he would pick up 7 or 8 mil per year of A-Rods salary, they would relieve him of the rest of it so he could bring in some pitching which is what Texas was lacking.

So, Hicks overpaid to lure him from the M's and then traded him once he realized he had too much money tied up on one player.

As far as his not being clutch, A-Rod isn't great in the clutch, but he's not terrible either. Due to the fact that he has a 25 mil per year contract given to him by Mr. Hicks, everything he does is put under a microscope.

JMO

[mbn007]

Did he hit more home runs? Yeah, definatly... then again he's playing in a tiny stadium whereas Wright has to play half his games in a stadium with one of the largest outfields, with what players say also provides one of the worst vision lines for hitters.

This is where you show your complete lack of understanding. Have you ever seen the dimensions of LF, and LCF in Yankee Stadium? For right handed hitters, they are killers. A-Rod and Joe D. are the only righties in Yankee history to ever hit 40 or more HRs in a single season. Think about that before spouting off about the tiny stadium he plays in.

[mbn007]

Bottom line.

A-rod won the MVP last season, and while he is having a season below par for his standards, 95% of Major League players would die for such a season.

A-Rod will go down as one of the greatest players to ever play the game. Barring injury, he will end up with some 800 HRs, and near records in rbis and runs scored, as well as a .300+ batting average, and a very hefty SB total, etc. His accomplishments from a stats point of view will be almost impossible to ignore when considering the all time greats.

Wright is a very nice player, who just might win MVP this season. He may go on to have a superb career. But then again, he may not. Until he shows up and perofrms over many years like A-Rod has already done, there is no way anyone can say Wright is better than A-Rod. At 31, A-Rod is far from washed up, and will put up the numbers in 2006, and beyond, just like he always has.

[Scott Dierking]

Blackout-Please describe for me in 2-3 sentences A-Rods performance in the playoffs, as a WHOLE (not select games) in comparison to his regular season performances.

Then do this favor for me, describe in two words, how you would mark that comparison, given that player was not a Yankee (whom you weem to have blind eyes for).

Thank you

[Smizzy]

Bottom line.

A-rod won the MVP last season, and while he is having a season below par for his standards, 95% of Major League players would die for such a season.

A-Rod will go down as one of the greatest players to ever play the game. Barring injury, he will end up with some 800 HRs, and near records in rbis and runs scored, as well as a .300+ batting average, and a very hefty SB total, etc. His accomplishments from a stats point of view will be almost impossible to ignore when considering the all time greats.

Wright is a very nice player, who just might win MVP this season. He may go on to have a superb career. But then again, he may not. Until he shows up and perofrms over many years like A-Rod has already done, there is no way anyone can say Wright is better than A-Rod. At 31, A-Rod is far from washed up, and will put up the numbers in 2006, and beyond, just like he always has.

And there you have it folks.

[Smizzy]

Blackout-Please describe for me in 2-3 sentences A-Rods performance in the playoffs, as a WHOLE (not select games) in comparison to his regular season performances.

SD...in 2-3 sentences describe David Wrights performance in the postseason as a whole.

Oh that's right....he's never sniffed the postseason. But hey let's keep talking his spectacular first half up...because that's all that is really important right?

When David Wright puts up MVP numbers all yr and WINS the MVP...you can start discussing who's better....but untill then....David wright can't hold Arod jock strap...I could give a sh*t less what his stats are thru 80 games.