I miss Curtis

[Gainzo]

If anyone doubts Curtis' motives they are (sorry to say this) retarded.

Curtis is what every pro athlete should be. A team first guy who is humble.

I said this earlier. Herm ended his career.

[shawn306]

How you can hate on Curtis is beyond me. Herm ran him into the ground. He had more carries in 2004 than in his rookie year.

Curtis is the most humble pro athlete I have ever seen. He is all about the team.

Gainzo for the life of me I cannot figure that out.

I guess with SOME Jets fans they are not happy unless they have something to b!tch about. Herm, Chad, Martin, Abraham, Vinny it just doesn't seem to matter.

Parcells ran Martin just as much if not more than Herm did.

1995 368 carries as a rookie

1996 316 carries

1998 369 carries

1999 367 carries

I find it hard to have hate for a guy who brought to the field every week. Rush the ball, catch the ball. block, I don't know what else you can ask for in a back.

Curtis averaged 4 yds every time he touch the ball in his career.

He rushed for over 1,200 yds every year with the Jets except for last year and 2002. (Sorry only 1,094 that year) Shoot him for that one.

Jets fans b!tch about Abraham NOT playing hurt and b!tch about Curtis playing hurt.

Go figure ?

Martin can play on my team anytime.

[Gainzo]

Gainzo for the life of me I cannot figure that out.

I guess with SOME Jets fans they are not happy unless they have something to b!tch about. Herm, Chad, Martin, Abraham, Vinny it just doesn't seem to matter.

Parcells ran Martin just as much if not more than Herm did.

1995 368 carries as a rookie

1996 316 carries

1998 369 carries

1999 367 carries

I find it hard to have hate for a guy who brought to the field every week. Rush the ball, catch the ball. block, I don't know what else you can ask for in a back.

Curtis averaged 4 yds every time he touch the ball in his career.

He rushed for over 1,200 yds every year with the Jets except for last year and 2002. (Sorry only 1,094 that year) Shoot him for that one.

Jets fans b!tch about Abraham NOT playing hurt and b!tch about Curtis playing hurt.

Go figure ?

Martin can play on my team anytime.

Parcells ran Curtis when he was young. Herm ran him more when he was old.

FU Herm.

Curtis is the man in my book.

[Garb]

Curtis turned his back on the Pats to reacquaint himself with Parcells' arse. Not that I blame him. Pete Carroll is an NFL putz. CuMart is a certain first ballot HOF. A tremendous back. From all accounts, a tremendous human. This Pats fan isn't annoiting him to the sainthood, however. Sorry.

[Gainzo]

Curtis turned his back on the Pats to reacquaint himself with Parcells' arse. Not that I blame him. Pete Carroll is an NFL putz. CuMart is a certain first ballot HOF. A tremendous back. From all accounts, a tremendous human. This Pats fan isn't annoiting him to the sainthood, however. Sorry.

Sorry Garb, but this Pats fan is annoiting Curtis. The man is a legend in my book.

[Bugg]

Bugg we won't agree on his motives. Do we agree though that regardless of his motives, it is the coaches job to sit him if he is not going to help the team?

Like I said earlier we blasted Abe for sitting. I just don't think it is fair to do the same thing to Curt. Regardless of the reason why.

Fair point.

Buy insurance, and lots of it, Larry Johnson. Because Herm's way of thinking is that he cannot be second-guessed nor questioned as long as his big-time back is getting the ball. Johnson breaks down or has a bad game-he's a HoFer; why should I give any carries to Michael Bennett?

[Bugg]

Gainzo for the life of me I cannot figure that out.

I guess with SOME Jets fans they are not happy unless they have something to b!tch about. Herm, Chad, Martin, Abraham, Vinny it just doesn't seem to matter.

Parcells ran Martin just as much if not more than Herm did.

1995 368 carries as a rookie

1996 316 carries

1998 369 carries

1999 367 carries

I find it hard to have hate for a guy who brought to the field every week. Rush the ball, catch the ball. block, I don't know what else you can ask for in a back.

Curtis averaged 4 yds every time he touch the ball in his career.

He rushed for over 1,200 yds every year with the Jets except for last year and 2002. (Sorry only 1,094 that year) Shoot him for that one.

Jets fans b!tch about Abraham NOT playing hurt and b!tch about Curtis playing hurt.

Go figure ?

Martin can play on my team anytime.

Difference is Martin turned 30 before the 2003 season. And after that any RB is on borrowed time.

[Maxman]

Fair point.

Buy insurance, and lots of it, Larry Johnson. Because Herm's way of thinking is that he cannot be second-guessed nor questioned as long as his big-time back is getting the ball. Johnson breaks down or has a bad game-he's a HoFer; why should I give any carries to Michael Bennett?

Bugg --

One more thing. I remember you detailing the history of RBs around the age of 32. With the end being near and all. Well Curtis hit the wall. So you are on to something with LJ.

[124]

Curtis Martin, one of the best human beings and football players that any of us will ever see... Especially in Green & White.

[Barton]

I dont miss him at all. He was more hype than substance. The guy will make the HOF, but he was never a "great back". He's not even in the discussion when you say "for 1 game, which RB do you take in nfl history".

Nobody is taking curtis martin. Nobody. He's not a real Hofer. Sorry, but we can do alot better than him. He was consistent and never got injured, hurray.

[Maxman]

I dont miss him at all. He was more hype than substance. The guy will make the HOF, but he was never a "great back". He's not even in the discussion when you say "for 1 game, which RB do you take in nfl history".

Nobody is taking curtis martin. Nobody. He's not a real Hofer. Sorry, but we can do alot better than him. He was consistent and never got injured, hurray.

You are smart. But you are young. Someday when you are not young you will be smart and wise. At that time, you will be scary.

[shawn306]

I dont miss him at all. He was more hype than substance. The guy will make the HOF, but he was never a "great back". He's not even in the discussion when you say "for 1 game, which RB do you take in nfl history".

Nobody is taking curtis martin. Nobody. He's not a real Hofer. Sorry, but we can do alot better than him. He was consistent and never got injured, hurray.

Maybe not for one game. I will take him though and won't even entertain the thought about drafting another running back for 10 years.

[JetCane]

I guess with SOME Jets fans they are not happy unless they have something to b!tch about. Herm, Chad, Martin, Abraham, Vinny it just doesn't seem to matter.

Parcells ran Martin just as much if not more than Herm did.

1995 368 carries as a rookie

1996 316 carries

1998 369 carries

1999 367 carries

I find it hard to have hate for a guy who brought to the field every week. Rush the ball, catch the ball. block, I don't know what else you can ask for in a back.

Curtis averaged 4 yds every time he touch the ball in his career.

He rushed for over 1,200 yds every year with the Jets except for last year and 2002. (Sorry only 1,094 that year) Shoot him for that one.

Jets fans b!tch about Abraham NOT playing hurt and b!tch about Curtis playing hurt.

Go figure ?

Martin can play on my team anytime.

Good post

It's crzay that L Johnson already has 282 carries- 50 more than LT!

btw Gore's ypc is 5.6= much higher than Johnson's.

[Sperm Edwards]

I dont miss him at all. He was more hype than substance. The guy will make the HOF, but he was never a "great back". He's not even in the discussion when you say "for 1 game, which RB do you take in nfl history".

Nobody is taking curtis martin. Nobody. He's not a real Hofer. Sorry, but we can do alot better than him. He was consistent and never got injured, hurray.

This probably sums up my feelings pretty well. We could do worse than Martin, but we can also do better. But for his longevity, he'd be thought of in the same light as Ricky Watters (without the superior receiving skills). A good RB, but hardly great. But he was good for longer than the other 4.0ypc RB's & carried the ball more times. Even playing when hurt, he still racked up yards, even if in smaller bunches. All those 50-60 yard games add up over 11 years. Very sub-par games that other RB's take a back-seat during & didn't get those stat-padding performances.

His two biggest games for us were the championship game vs Denver at the end of the '98 season and the Pittsburgh game in the '04 season. He was horrible in both games. Yards against the league's doormats (who mediocre backs on bad teams do well against) in weeks 1-4 aren't what gets a team into a superbowl.

[shawn306]

I wonder if Lions fans feel the same way about Barry Sanders ?

Year Opp Result | RSH YD TD | REC YD TD

---------------------+-----------------+-----------------

1991 dal W,38-6 | 12 69 1 | 5 30 0

1991 was L,10-41 | 11 44 0 | 4 15 0

1993 gnb L,24-28 | 27 169 0 | 2 0 0

1994 gnb L,12-16 | 13 -1 0 | 3 4 0

1995 phi L,37-58 | 10 40 0 | 2 19 0

1997 tam L,10-20 | 18 65 0 | 5 43 0

---------------------+-----------------+-----------------

TOTAL | 91 386 1 | 21 111 0

[Bugg]

I wonder if Lions fans feel the same way about Barry Sanders ?

Year Opp Result | RSH YD TD | REC YD TD

---------------------+-----------------+-----------------

1991 dal W,38-6 | 12 69 1 | 5 30 0

1991 was L,10-41 | 11 44 0 | 4 15 0

1993 gnb L,24-28 | 27 169 0 | 2 0 0

1994 gnb L,12-16 | 13 -1 0 | 3 4 0

1995 phi L,37-58 | 10 40 0 | 2 19 0

1997 tam L,10-20 | 18 65 0 | 5 43 0

---------------------+-----------------+-----------------

TOTAL | 91 386 1 | 21 111 0

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/SandBa00.htm

Sanders was dominant in a way Martin never was. If we're going with the "for one game" argument, nobody is taking Martin over Sanders. And Sanders retired at 30. So the comparsion ends righ there.

[shawn306]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/SandBa00.htm

Sanders was dominant in a way Martin never was. If we're going with the "for one game" argument, nobody is taking Martin over Sanders. And Sanders retired at 30. So the comparsion ends righ there.

Yeah he can give you 169 like he did against Green Bay or he can give you -1 the following year against Green Bay.

Everyone wants to seems like they want to base Curtis' career on how he did in the post season. There are probably 100 guys I would take over Curtis in one game. Heck why don't we just take Timmy Smith of the Redskins based on his Super Bowl 22 performance against the Broncos.

Like I said. I have no problem taking Curtis and not worrying about my rb position for the next 10 years.

[Sperm Edwards]

I wonder if Lions fans feel the same way about Barry Sanders ?

Year Opp Result | RSH YD TD | REC YD TD

---------------------+-----------------+-----------------

1991 dal W,38-6 | 12 69 1 | 5 30 0

1991 was L,10-41 | 11 44 0 | 4 15 0

1993 gnb L,24-28 | 27 169 0 | 2 0 0

1994 gnb L,12-16 | 13 -1 0 | 3 4 0

1995 phi L,37-58 | 10 40 0 | 2 19 0

1997 tam L,10-20 | 18 65 0 | 5 43 0

---------------------+-----------------+-----------------

TOTAL | 91 386 1 | 21 111 0

You're serious?

Try comparing Curtis to someone whose worst season wasn't WAY better than Curtis' average season.

And particularly since Herm took over, Martin's ypc is misleadingly overblown, unless you actually watched the games (which I'm sure you did).

Take Martin's last game vs Pittsburgh. Did he have a good game? Statistically, it wasn't that bad. 77 yds on 19 carries. But other than a few draw plays on obvious passing downs, like gaining 15 yards on 3rd & 24, he averaged exactly 3.0ypc. He also couldn't get the "tough yards" he's so often credited for getting when we needed to inch closer for TWO game-winning FG attempts in that game. If you don't remember, look up the play-by-play on nfl.com or espn.com.

Other than '96 with New England, where he was running behind the NFL's #3 passing attack, Curtis still averaged just under 4.0ypc in the playoffs for us even with more than half of those post-season Jets games having the advantage of Hackett feeding him draw plays on 2nd/3rd & long.

Martin, while a solid RB in his prime, was not in Sanders' league.

[Biggs]

Amazing how many true Curtis haters there are on this board. Herm killed him, I say RIP Curtis.

[NJ]

For everything he is or isn't - he's a class act and I miss that aspect of what he brought to the Jets.

[Maxman]

Amazing how many true Curtis haters there are on this board. Herm killed him, I say RIP Curtis.

I can't figure it out. I don't think it is limited to just here (I might be wrong on that though). Curtis was never the problem. A very good back with great career #s. Playing on average NY Jets teams for the most part.

[Sperm Edwards]

You almost make it sound like I rooted against him on Sundays. It never happened.

If it was the path to the superbowl, I wouldn't care if it was with Martin or Smizzy at RB, with Herm/Hackett/Cotrell as our coaches, with 5-yard-ington at QB or whomever.

I just want to see them in a superbowl. Clearly the path of paying a RB with neither breakaway speed nor bruising power like he was the NFL's best, and then slavishly giving him >90% of the non-garbage-time carries no matter who the opponent, was not the path to getting there. And all along, no matter how injured or ineffective he was, said-player wanted even more carries & spewed silliness like needing 10-15 carries to get warmed up (by which time the game was frequently out of hand & the reason we stopped running the ball). You can say all you want how that's just his competitive side, but I don't believe for a second that Martin is some stupid guy who didn't realize he was not the Jets' best option in many situations.

[Maxman]

You almost make it sound like I rooted against him on Sundays. It never happened.

That is a good point. We know on Sundays you rooted for him. It is every other day of the week that you rooted against him. You and that Savage guy, lol.

[Bugg]

It's not "hate". That's a really strong word. To his credit, Martin was always in great shape, worked hard, provided a great example to his teammates and younger players. He has lived an exemplary life off-the-field and I wish him nothing but the best.

Those of us questioning his greatness as a football player are looking at what he did on the field and comparing it to other running backs. And we're also looking at what he did in playoff games. I don't disagree that based on stats and those of others in comparison Martin is likely a HoFer. But having watched him play, he was never dominant. I and others are at a loss as to how people take the fact that he's a nice man off the field and add that in and somehow say that constitutes greatness on the field. Whether he was Ghandi or Stalin 6 days a week didn't mean very much on the gridiron.

[Biggs]

I can't figure it out. I don't think it is limited to just here (I might be wrong on that though). Curtis was never the problem. A very good back with great career #s. Playing on average NY Jets teams for the most part.

The problem is Curtis is a very good back with great career numbers but he is revered as if he carried the Jets on his back to victory which he didn't. The Jets may have had the best team in football in 98? Curtis clearly didn't carry that team, Vinny did. Curtis to his credit probably did carry the 04 team to the playoffs. We paid a huge price to get Martin on the Jets. It didn't get us a championship but he along with the acquisition of Mawae by Parcells was at least the stabilizing of this franchise from a perennial loser to a team with at least some dignity and the ability to at least compete on a weekly basis during the regular season.

[shawn306]

You're serious?

Try comparing Curtis to someone whose worst season wasn't WAY better than Curtis' average season.

And particularly since Herm took over, Martin's ypc is misleadingly overblown, unless you actually watched the games (which I'm sure you did).

Take Martin's last game vs Pittsburgh. Did he have a good game? Statistically, it wasn't that bad. 77 yds on 19 carries. But other than a few draw plays on obvious passing downs, like gaining 15 yards on 3rd & 24, he averaged exactly 3.0ypc. He also couldn't get the "tough yards" he's so often credited for getting when we needed to inch closer for TWO game-winning FG attempts in that game. If you don't remember, look up the play-by-play on nfl.com or espn.com.

Other than '96 with New England, where he was running behind the NFL's #3 passing attack, Curtis still averaged just under 4.0ypc in the playoffs for us even with more than half of those post-season Jets games having the advantage of Hackett feeding him draw plays on 2nd/3rd & long.

Martin, while a solid RB in his prime, was not in Sanders' league.

I'm not putting Martin in Sanders league. Sanders in my mind is a top 10 back all-time and I'm sure people can argue top 5.

Alot of you like to point out his post season games against Pittsburgh and use that to judge his career. Sanders post season numbers are not great either and he is an all time back.

Do we take all of Riggins' post season number and toss them aside because he played with one of the best OL of all time ?

Martin is THE BEST RB this franchise has ever had. Better than McNeil, Boozer, Snell and better than Riggins when he was a Jet.

I just don't get the hate for Martin. Like I said I would have no problem having him in my backfield for 10-12 years and knowing that I'm good for 1,200 yds a year.

[PeterNorth09]

Ok.....I know that Martin isn't going to be playing anymore...but I sure do miss him on the field....anyone else agree..I'm new to posting stuff so be gentle with me please.Marci:) PS we are going to kick some Packer ASS!!!!!

Miss Martin too. My favorite Jet of all time.

[Maxman]

One more thing about Curtis. He always complied with the league's uniform policy. On behalf of the league, I just want to thank him for that.

Aaron Glenn? That guy was getting sock violations nearly every damn week. What kind of leader does that?

[Biggs]

Martin is THE BEST RB this franchise has ever had. Better than McNeil, Boozer, Snell and better than Riggins when he was a Jet.

In fairness to those other guys, when healthy with one game to win Curtis would not start ahead of Riggins, McNeil or Snell.

[Sperm Edwards]

The problem is Curtis is a very good back with great career numbers but he is revered as if he carried the Jets on his back to victory which he didn't. The Jets may have had the best team in football in 98? Curtis clearly didn't carry that team, Vinny did. Curtis to his credit probably did carry the 04 team to the playoffs. We paid a huge price to get Martin on the Jets. It didn't get us a championship but he along with the acquisition of Mawae by Parcells was at least the stabilizing of this franchise from a perennial loser to a team with at least some dignity and the ability to at least compete on a weekly basis during the regular season.

This is probably why it bugs me the most. I never suggested he was at all a BAD RB. It's just all the cooing over his stats, which are largely due to opportunity. A RB who gets almost or around 5.0 ypc on 200 attempts, with another one getting short-yardage and/or 3rd-down duties, are more dangerous assets for a team than one who gets 4.0 on 370 carries & stays in on every down.

[Bugg]

I'm not putting Martin in Sanders league. Sanders in my mind is a top 10 back all-time and I'm sure people can argue top 5.

Alot of you like to point out his post season games against Pittsburgh and use that to judge his career. Sanders post season numbers are not great either and he is an all time back.

Do we take all of Riggins' post season number and toss them aside because he played with one of the best OL of all time ?

Martin is THE BEST RB this franchise has ever had. Better than McNeil, Boozer, Snell and better than Riggins when he was a Jet.

I just don't get the hate for Martin. Like I said I would have no problem having him in my backfield for 10-12 years and knowing that I'm good for 1,200 yds a year.

Don't take this the wrong way, but based on what he went on to do with the Skins, Riggins was a better back. He was physical and brutal in a way that Martin never was. Riggins could run over people in a way martin could only wish to do. And there are Super Bowl highlights than back it up. Riggins in 2 seasons did in fact carry his team to Super Bowl berths, and won 1. That's greatness. Martin has 1 Super Bowl but in that run in 1996 had one good game and 2 average ones. Can't really say he ever carried a playoff team.

Freeman was better too. But for his injuries, he would've been a HoFer. And he gave a bunch of carries to Barber, Hector, Dierking without complaint. So his stats may not seem close-unless you wathced the games.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/RiggJo00.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/MartCu00.htm

[JetCane]

In fairness to those other guys, when healthy with one game to win Curtis would not start ahead of Riggins, McNeil or Snell.

I'd start Riggins and Mcneil first. The comparison to Snell isnt really fair- he'd be more in direct competition with Boozer at hb. That would be a toss-up.

[Biggs]

I'd start Riggins and Mcneil first. The comparison to Snell isnt really fair- he'd be more in direct competition with Boozer at hb. That would be a toss-up.

The fullback in Snell's day was a lot different than the fullback of today. In todays game Snell may have very well been a tailback and I think a very good one.

[Jets28]

Actually, at the rate he was rushing, if he finished 2005, he would have hadf a 1,000 yards.

But, why allow the facts to pollute your opinion, they havent anywhere else in this thread?

...You fought gallantly Scott and a Curtis fan like myself thanks you but your words are falling on deaf ears....they wouldnt get it if it smacked them in the face....Curtis will be missed and thats all. He had great work ethic and is a great person just let him have that and ride on into the sunset

[Biggs]

This is probably why it bugs me the most. I never suggested he was at all a BAD RB. It's just all the cooing over his stats, which are largely due to opportunity. A RB who gets almost or around 5.0 ypc on 200 attempts, with another one getting short-yardage and/or 3rd-down duties, are more dangerous assets for a team than one who gets 4.0 on 370 carries & stays in on every down.

Hard to fault Curtis for doing what he was asked to do. You can't discount that he held up for 10 years with that workload. I agree you can make a very strong argument that we might have been able to be just as productive or more productive at a much lower cost but again that's not Curtis's fault, that's a credit to his tenacity and drive.