DMaynard Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I don't care who he replaces - Vilma or Barton. It does not matter. Either will be an upgrade. Harris can play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Sadly, Barton seems to be losing a step. Vilma had some very, very bright spots today, so I think he may be about to turn things around(hopefully). If you sit someone for Harris, its got to be Barton, although im not sure if even that is the right move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I don't care who he replaces - Vilma or Barton. It does not matter. Either will be an upgrade. Harris can play. Agreed DM-the whole defense needs to be shaken up. Dwayne Robertson had one tackle today-is Victor Hobson even on the field? Eric Coleman sucks too Shaun Ellis is also disappearing-Vilma? He is NOT making any kind of a difference out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boozer76 Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 There were 2 consecutive plays where Harris was inside and Vilma lined up outside. On those plays Harris stuffed the run for a 2 yard loss and Vilma sniffed out a screen. Personally speaking, I think this would be better overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 There were 2 consecutive plays where Harris was inside and Vilma lined up outside. On those plays Harris stuffed the run for a 2 yard loss and Vilma sniffed out a screen. Personally speaking, I think this would be better overall. Said it in the preseason--Vilma-Harris-Barton-Thomas would be the BEST 4 man set to send out there, as it would maximize the strengths of all the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbia Jet Fan Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Agreed, I dont know why it is impossible to throw Vilma on the outside...besides Hobson is awful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_monkey Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Agreed, I dont know why it is impossible to throw Vilma on the outside...besides Hobson is awful Vilma on the outside in a 3-4? I have a hard time seeing that. Fix the line, and Vilma/Harris will put up numbers inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boozer76 Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Vilma on the outside in a 3-4? I have a hard time seeing that. Fix the line, and Vilma/Harris will put up numbers inside. Why? It allows him to maximize his strength-Speed. He can cover the RB coming out on the screen and gives him the path of least resistance to the QB on blitzes. The worst thing to do is put him in positions to take on blockers, which he practically refuses to do at MLB. He literally tries to run around any O lineman that breaks through. Once he is simply engaged by a lineman he's pretty much taken out of the play. On the outside he's much less likely to have to shed a block. Harris is big enough and strong enough to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 Why? It allows him to maximize his strength-Speed. He can cover the RB coming out on the screen and gives him the path of least resistance to the QB on blitzes. The worst thing to do is put him in positions to take on blockers, which he practically refuses to do at MLB. He literally tries to run around any O lineman that breaks through. Once he is simply engaged by a lineman he's pretty much taken out of the play. On the outside he's much less likely to have to shed a block. Harris is big enough and strong enough to do so. Agree. I don't think he would be an ideal 3-4 OLB, but I am sure he would be much more effective than on the inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraVerde Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Great thread. I agree we need to see more of Harris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I think the theory is that the OLB has to be bigger to take on the tackles. FWIW, I'm not impressed with Vilma's blitzing, but he is fast. IMO, Ray Mickens was a better blitzer than any of our LBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boozer76 Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I think the theory is that the OLB has to be bigger to take on the tackles. FWIW, I'm not impressed with Vilma's blitzing, but he is fast. IMO, Ray Mickens was a better blitzer than any of our LBs No, the OLB is more of a speed rusher, ala Terrell Suggs. The ILB's end up in the thick of it with the linemen, much more so than the OLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 No, the OLB is more of a speed rusher, ala Terrell Suggs. The ILB's end up in the thick of it with the linemen, much more so than the OLB. #1, Vilma is fast but not a speed rusher, #2 it's not my theory. Most 3-4 OLBs are tweener DE/LB types like Abraham or the one true LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_monkey Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 No, the OLB is more of a speed rusher, ala Terrell Suggs. The ILB's end up in the thick of it with the linemen, much more so than the OLB. Suggs 6.3, 260 /Vilma 6-1, 230. In the 3-4 you usually have one smaller ILB and one bigger/stronger one. They complement eachother. Outside LB's have to be able to support the line against the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Suggs 6.3, 260 /Vilma 6-1, 230. In the 3-4 you usually have one smaller ILB and one bigger/stronger one. They complement eachother. Outside LB's have to be able to support the line against the run. Was this measurement on Vilma done with rolls of quarters in his pockets after a night out and lifts in his shoes? He was pushed around all day, the worst being on the Fins last TD, where he was abused one on one. I'm sorry to break it to you Vilma lovers-your boy sucks. He cannot win one on ones damn the scheme. Major mistake Tannebaum made-not taking a huge check to Adalius Thomas's agent at midnight of FA signing date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_monkey Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 OLB's are the ones who move up to the line to support it in 3-4. Move Vilma up to the line and he'll get killed. The reason why Vilma is getting tied up by OLinemen isn't because of the 3-4 system, but because the Dline isn't doing their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetCane Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 I don't care who he replaces - Vilma or Barton. It does not matter. Either will be an upgrade. Harris can play. I like harris, too, but you know he was in there for a couple of those long screen passes, including the first one that went for 45 yds. i havent seen the replay yet, but i know he bit hard on the playfake and vacated his spot. I'm just saying, he aint the be all and end all to making the defense work. I think some of you guys see what you want to see. I suspect he had some responsibility on those screens, but the backup is always popular with fans. The problems on defense are much deeper than thinking putting a rookie LB out there will solve everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted September 24, 2007 Author Share Posted September 24, 2007 I like harris, too, but you know he was in there for a couple of those long screen passes, including the first one that went for 45 yds. i havent seen the replay yet, but i know he bit hard on the playfake and vacated his spot. I'm just saying, he aint the be all and end all to making the defense work. I think some of you guys see what you want to see. I suspect he had some responsibility on those screens, but the backup is always popular with fans. The problems on defense are much deeper than thinking putting a rookie LB out there will solve everything. When a screen goes for a long play, there are a few people who did not do their jobs, unlike a CB who is on an island. I think what Harris would give us is some more toughness in the middle against the run. Something this team needs desparately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetCane Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 When a screen goes for a long play, there are a few people who did not do their jobs, unlike a CB who is on an island. I think what Harris would give us is some more toughness in the middle against the run. Something this team needs desparately. I understand that, but there is no guarantee the other team will only run running plays when he is in. He has shown some rookie weaknesses in other parts of the game, and i am fine with the way they are working him into the rotation. He has been getting in there all three games, and his PT has been increasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 this thread assumes that the coaching staff are morons obviously they traded up for the guy, they plan on starting him as soon as possible, probably replacing Barton. the guy got a-lot of PT this week and that's only going to increase as the season goes on - however there is a reason why he's not starting and I trust the CS when it comes to starting the best personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted September 24, 2007 Author Share Posted September 24, 2007 this thread assumes that the coaching staff are morons obviously they traded up for the guy, they plan on starting him as soon as possible, probably replacing Barton. the guy got a-lot of PT this week and that's only going to increase as the season goes on - however there is a reason why he's not starting and I trust the CS when it comes to starting the best personnel. Wrong. I think the world of Mangini. But I also think all coaches get attached to certain veterans and have trouble recognizing when a younger player is ready to take over. I am not saying that Harris is definitlely ready, but in just a little playing time he has done some things that no other LB on the team has done. And this defense needs some shakeup. Example: Kimo last year. A corpse would have been a better option. He was, without exaggeration, probably the worst starting DE I have ever seen. I don't care what he did in the past. I don't care if he was the football Winston Churchill in the lockerroom. Starting him over anyone would technically qualify Mangini as a moron. But he is not. He is an NFL head coach. A very good one already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 I like harris, too, but you know he was in there for a couple of those long screen passes, including the first one that went for 45 yds. i havent seen the replay yet, but i know he bit hard on the playfake and vacated his spot. I'm just saying, he aint the be all and end all to making the defense work. I think some of you guys see what you want to see. I suspect he had some responsibility on those screens, but the backup is always popular with fans. The problems on defense are much deeper than thinking putting a rookie LB out there will solve everything. I believe it was Vilma that got taken out by the guard on that play..i could be wrong I think teams try to focus on Vilma as well - if he were not in there they would focus on the next guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Harris was on the field alot, including the early long screen to R Brown, where Harris got faked out of his jock strap. don't get me wrong, he's a very good player, just raw. Mangini knows what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 I don't care who he replaces - Vilma or Barton. It does not matter. Either will be an upgrade. Harris can play. QFT. He's one of the few who seems to be able (in his short amount of playing time) to still make plays even with our D-Line playing as poorly as it is. I don't know about starting neccessarily, but definitely more playing time, especially in run-first-down situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetCane Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Harris was on the field alot, including the early long screen to R Brown, where Harris got faked out of his jock strap. don't get me wrong, he's a very good player, just raw. Mangini knows what he's doing. Exactly what I saw too, and I agree with ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted September 24, 2007 Author Share Posted September 24, 2007 Harris was on the field alot, including the early long screen to R Brown, where Harris got faked out of his jock strap. OK. That's one play. And the several times this year, in his limited playing time, that he avoided a block and nailed a RB on a run or pass in his tracks, FOR A LOSS, did that get your attention? A kind of play that, I can't recall any of our 4 starting LBers making. Once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cant Hackett Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 The defense is NOT making plays (1sack, 1int, 0 FF, 4 tackles for a loss) this season; I rather take some mistakes by Harris and have him develop sooner. With our current defense, what the down side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetCane Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 The defense is NOT making plays (1sack, 1int, 0 FF, 4 tackles for a loss) this season; I rather take some mistakes by Harris and have him develop sooner. With our current defense, what the down side? The downside is that if he played all game every game, he'd be hitting the rookie wall after Thanksgiving, like many rooks do. He is going to get steadily better, and he will be a bigger factor in December by not overusing him early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 The downside is that if he played all game every game, he'd be hitting the rookie wall after Thanksgiving, like many rooks do. He is going to get steadily better, and he will be a bigger factor in December by not overusing him early. that's a damn good point JC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted September 24, 2007 Author Share Posted September 24, 2007 The downside is that if he played all game every game, he'd be hitting the rookie wall after Thanksgiving, like many rooks do. He is going to get steadily better, and he will be a bigger factor in December by not overusing him early. Is Revis being overused? Here is my point. If Dyson, Barrett and Miller all did not have various injuries, I guarantee that Revis would not be starting. And now that you see how good he is, how silly would that be? Is Harris as ready as Revis? I don't know. He has shown some real good signs. But don't make the assumption that if a rookie isn't starting, he isn't ready. I love Mangini. But he has developed under the same mentality that all NFL coaches have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cant Hackett Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 The downside is that if he played all game every game, he'd be hitting the rookie wall after Thanksgiving, like many rooks do. He is going to get steadily better, and he will be a bigger factor in December by not overusing him early. WTF, I guess we should bench Revis then. JC, you just don't want JV to lose playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetCane Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 WTF, I guess we should bench Revis then. JC, you just don't JV to lose playing time. Dont be surprised if Revis hits the wall. If dyson was healthy, he'd be playing more and there would be more of a rotation. Revis is out there all the time out of necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cant Hackett Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 The downside is that if he played all game every game, he'd be hitting the rookie wall after Thanksgiving, like many rooks do. He is going to get steadily better, and he will be a bigger factor in December by not overusing him early. JC, if we don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetCane Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 JC, if we don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoping4ASuperBowl Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Dont be surprised if Revis hits the wall. If dyson was healthy, he'd be playing more and there would be more of a rotation. Revis is out there all the time out of necessity. I dont think we have enough decent players in our secondary right now even with Dyson healthy. Revis will be out there everygame of the year, so any mistakes he makes as a rookie, were all gonna see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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