The Chatter Continues On Tannenbaum

[SoFlaJets]

The chatter continues on Tannenbaum

By Dan Leberfeld

Posted Jan 16, 2009

I heard Carl Banks talking today on the radio about the current . . .

"Does Mike Tannenbaum need a personnel guy to come in and help him - maybe," Banks said.

Now Banks wasn't taking a shot at Tannenbaum. He was just bringing up a theory that a lot of people seam to have, that perhaps Tannenbaum is over his head.

I don't think he is. The man has been in the league over a decade. When will the critics allow him to drop the tag of "cap guy" and respect him as a "football guy?"

It's about time for people to realize is now a bonafide football man.

You get the sense there are some personnel guys in the league who resent that Tannenbaum has a GM job and they don't. It seems like in every other issue of Pro Football Weekly, some unnamed scout or personnel director is taking a shot at Tannenbaum.

This is just jealousy at work.

And the concept that the Jets need to bring in some personnel guru to help Tannenbaum is misguided and I will tell you why.

Do people think that he is making personnel decisions on an island? He's got two very capable first lieutenants in Terry Bradway and Joey Clinkscales on the college side, and JoJo Wooden and Scott Cohen on the pro side.

And when the new coach is named, he will have another talent evaluator to lean on.

He's not sitting in his office like some kind of Hugo Chavez figure acting like a dictator and not listening to people.

It's really time for all the questions about Tannenbaum's qualifications to end.

Is he the best GM in the league? No. But he's done

[docdhc]

I think over ten years in the league and running the last three drafts qualifies Tanny as a football man. It doesn't matter that he has an accountant degree, there is no football guy major in college. You don't have to coach or play to be able to evaluate talent imo.

[Mavrik]

I don't think the question has been is he a football man. I think the question has been is he the RIGHT football man for this team. And at this point, that's debatable.

[spjets]

Carl Banks is the biggest idiot on NFL SIRIUS...

he talks out his ass

[lancemehl]

The chatter continues on Tannenbaum

By Dan Leberfeld

Posted Jan 16, 2009

I heard Carl Banks talking today on the radio about the current . . .

"Does Mike Tannenbaum need a personnel guy to come in and help him - maybe," Banks said.

Now Banks wasn't taking a shot at Tannenbaum. He was just bringing up a theory that a lot of people seam to have, that perhaps Tannenbaum is over his head.

I don't think he is. The man has been in the league over a decade. When will the critics allow him to drop the tag of "cap guy" and respect him as a "football guy?"

It's about time for people to realize is now a bonafide football man.

You get the sense there are some personnel guys in the league who resent that Tannenbaum has a GM job and they don't. It seems like in every other issue of Pro Football Weekly, some unnamed scout or personnel director is taking a shot at Tannenbaum.

This is just jealousy at work.

And the concept that the Jets need to bring in some personnel guru to help Tannenbaum is misguided and I will tell you why.

Do people think that he is making personnel decisions on an island? He's got two very capable first lieutenants in Terry Bradway and Joey Clinkscales on the college side, and JoJo Wooden and Scott Cohen on the pro side.

And when the new coach is named, he will have another talent evaluator to lean on.

He's not sitting in his office like some kind of Hugo Chavez figure acting like a dictator and not listening to people.

It's really time for all the questions about Tannenbaum's qualifications to end.

Is he the best GM in the league? No. But he's done

I think Tannebaum's done a fine job, a nearly flawless job if you put against ohhh let's say Matt Millan or, um Isiah Thomas, leave Mike T alone.

We have seven probowlers and couldn't get to the playoffs....coach or GM?

[gang_green03]

This is stupid. He's not some amazing GM but he's done a pretty good job so far. We've had some good drafts under his watch so I don't know how you can even argue that he has no football knowledge. Also, like the article said, are people stupid enough to think that he doesn't have personel people helping him out right now?

[Boynton Beach Jets]

Tannenbaum has done a very good job. One thing I will fault him on is not getting Pennington out of the AFCE

[bobbyjet69]

Tannenbaum has done a very good job. One thing I will fault him on is not getting Pennington out of the AFCE

x2

[Damaged89]

Tannenbaum has done a very good job. One thing I will fault him on is not getting Pennington out of the AFCE

Trading him was going to be virtually impossible since everyone knew we couldn't keep both Pennington and Favre. Furthermore, is it really a bad thing to have a guy who can't beat good defenses/win playoff games in your division?

[4HCrew]

He is an average GM... he was given a boat load of money to spend and did just that spent it. His drafting has been curious at times, and some of his trades are questionable but I guess every team has that. His biggest problem could be that Reese hit the jackpot with his draft and he is compared to that

[Bugg]

Carl Banks is the biggest idiot on NFL SIRIUS...

he talks out his ass

It's a tough decision locally who spouts more pointless empty cliches about the NFL-Banks, Leberfeld or Adam Schein. All 3 talk like they've just come down form the mountain with some serious tablets, but they say gibberish over and over.

[Sperm Edwards]

He is an average GM... he was given a boat load of money to spend and did just that spent it. His drafting has been curious at times, and some of his trades are questionable but I guess every team has that. His biggest problem could be that Reese hit the jackpot with his draft and he is compared to that

Reese hit the jackpot?

ROUND 1

----------

Ross is mediocre & looks like less than that when the pass rush isn't there. He also turns 27 next year, which will only be his 3rd NFL season.

Philips was fine for a rookie. Not lights-out, but he's probably going to be really good.

ROUND 2

----------

Steve Smith, in his 2nd season, couldn't beat out Toomer to start out the year, or even Hixon after Plaxico went down.

Terrell Thomas didn't do anything noteworthy as a rookie.

ROUND 3

----------

Mario Manningham couldn't get ahead of Sinorice Moss, who couldn't get ahead of Steve Smith, who couldn't get ahead of Domenik Hixon.

Jay Alford was an outstanding pick, no doubt about it.

ROUND 4

----------

Zak DeOssie is a long-snapper & nothing more at this point. A 4th round long snapper.

Bryan Kehl had an interception against Pittsburgh, but Ben was handing them out like candy that game.

Kevin Boss is doing fine so far. But he really did didn't step it up in Plaxico's absence.

ROUND 5

----------

Jonathan Goff was a good prospect but barely played (and then got injured)

Adam Koets doesn't play.

ROUND 6

----------

Andre Woodson is 3rd string

Robert Henderson was waived in August

ROUND 7

----------

Michael Johnson blows. Started because the team had no one else after Wilson left in FA. Philips will have his job from day one next year.

Ahmad Bradshaw has been very good in the role he played. Of course playing behind that OL doesn't hurt either. We'll see how good he is without both Brandon Jacobs and Derrick Ward softening up the defense for him, or if the OL suffers some of the setbacks that plague other teams without notice.

"Jackpot" should mean a few stars. Don't talk to me about potential. Gholston has potential & so far he's a total bust.

[BroadwayJ667]

He is an average GM... he was given a boat load of money to spend and did just that spent it. His drafting has been curious at times, and some of his trades are questionable but I guess every team has that. His biggest problem could be that Reese hit the jackpot with his draft and he is compared to that

well the way i look at his drafting is that they are slowly getting better, or at least the personnel decisions. the Jets were really the only team to have success in free agency last year getting starters, almost no other team had even one starter, the jets had what 5 maybe 6

[jack48]

Tannenbaum has done a very good job. One thing I will fault him on is not getting Pennington out of the AFCE

But was Tanny making final call on Jet personnel or was Mangini? I always felt that Mangini was the force on personnel and Tanny on contracts.

[Boynton Beach Jets]

Trading him was going to be virtually impossible since everyone knew we couldn't keep both Pennington and Favre. Furthermore, is it really a bad thing to have a guy who can't beat good defenses/win playoff games in your division?

We could have shuffled contracts & or give Favre instead $12 million in salary, we could of given him a $6 million bonus up front which would have been prorated over the 3 years of his contract along with $6 million in salary. Keeping Chad would have been temporary until we moved perhaps to KC or Minn.

All in all I think Tannenbaum has done a good job and I am glad he is the Jets GM.

[Sperm Edwards]

We could have shuffled contracts & or give Favre instead $12 million in salary, we could of given him a $6 million bonus up front which would have been prorated over the 3 years of his contract along with $6 million in salary. Keeping Chad would have been temporary until we moved perhaps to KC or Minn.

All in all I think Tannenbaum has done a good job and I am glad he is the Jets GM.

First of all, that's not true. With the expiring CBA, you couldn't have done that.

Second of all, we're $7M over the projected 2009 cap without any 2008 bonus money hitting it from Favre. Another $3M would be a problem that would cost us another player.

Next, if we traded him to Minnesota for a draft pick, we'd have to fork over three first round draft picks to Green Bay. That was part of the trade agreement or GB wasn't trading him to anyone.

Last, everyone knew we weren't keeping both. I think that Miami only gave up like a 5th round pick for Trent Green and that was with Huard & Croyle as the other QB's. And it took a while for KC to unload him on someone. More than a few days. And since it was already August, every additional day made it harder to find a trade partner.

So who else is there who was going to scrap all their off-season plans to give up compensation to the Jets so they could then go with a totally different QB, who doesn't know the receivers or the playbook, less than a month before the season starts?

We had no leverage. Might as well release him and not screw ourselves that year or the next year so we could possibly cash out with a 7th or maybe a 6th round draft pick. Given the timing and our own situation, that's all we'd get. And in the meantime we have a divided locker room with BOTH Favre and Pennington in it. It's best to not have those two in the locker room at the same time.

Summary: that would be far worse than simply releasing Pennington before Favre got to town.

[jason423]

I think he has done ok. He has been relatively conservative in his draft choices at the top and so far it looks like most of the players will work out. I guess he has done ok in the rest of the draft. He did nab Harris in 2007 who looks to be a good pro, Washington is an excellent special teamer, and Stuckey can maybe be a 20 reception guy. The rest of the picks dont look like NFL talent. I actually think Bradway had a better eye for talent late in the drafts. I know he is still part of the process, but he final blame/credit is going to go to Mr. T. Free agency has been pretty weak. I think that is his biggest weakness right now. Chatham, Kassell, Barlow, Kimo, Clement, A. Jones, etc....The mark of a great GM is to find guys who fit the system that do not command top dollar. I don't think that is the case here thus far.

[Boynton Beach Jets]

First of all, that's not true. With the expiring CBA, you couldn't have done that.

Second of all, we're $7M over the projected 2009 cap without any 2008 bonus money hitting it from Favre. Another $3M would be a problem that would cost us another player.

Next, if we traded him to Minnesota for a draft pick, we'd have to fork over three first round draft picks to Green Bay. That was part of the trade agreement or GB wasn't trading him to anyone.

Last, everyone knew we weren't keeping both. I think that Miami only gave up like a 5th round pick for Trent Green and that was with Huard & Croyle as the other QB's. And it took a while for KC to unload him on someone. More than a few days. And since it was already August, every additional day made it harder to find a trade partner.

So who else is there who was going to scrap all their off-season plans to give up compensation to the Jets so they could then go with a totally different QB, who doesn't know the receivers or the playbook, less than a month before the season starts?

We had no leverage. Might as well release him and not screw ourselves that year or the next year so we could possibly cash out with a 7th or maybe a 6th round draft pick. Given the timing and our own situation, that's all we'd get. And in the meantime we have a divided locker room with BOTH Favre and Pennington in it. It's best to not have those two in the locker room at the same time.

Summary: that would be far worse than simply releasing Pennington before Favre got to town.

1) You could prorate any contract prior to 2008 you can even do it after the 2009 season. The additional salary for 2009 would be to temporary to allow Pennington to stay on the roster for an additional week or two in 2008. Yes we would have to move salaries and bonuses around but we would have a full year to do so. Once Pennington was dealt we would receive cap relief in 2008 and beyond.

2) I was referring to trading Pennington to the Vikings and not Favre. Brett would cost us the additional draft picks.

3) Trading Pennington first priority is to get him out of the division and getting compensation such as draft picks is a byproduct. The Pathetics* are doing the same with Cassell to make sure he does not go to the Jets.

4) Having Pennington and Favre would have been for a week or two just until we would have been able to get Pennington out of the division,

[Sperm Edwards]

1) You could prorate any contract prior to 2008 you can even do it after the 2009 season. The additional salary for 2009 would be to temporary to allow Pennington to stay on the roster for an additional week or two in 2008. Yes we would have to move salaries and bonuses around but we would have a full year to do so. Once Pennington was dealt we would receive cap relief in 2008 and beyond.

2) I was referring to trading Pennington to the Vikings and not Favre. Brett would cost us the additional draft picks.

3) Trading Pennington first priority is to get him out of the division and getting compensation such as draft picks is a byproduct. The Pathetics* are doing the same with Cassell to make sure he does not go to the Jets.

4) Having Pennington and Favre would have been for a week or two just until we would have been able to get Pennington out of the division,

You assume we could have done that. I do not.

Pennington's attraction to the Dolphins was for more than 1 reason. Parcells had drafted him. He's had some success. Their team was 1-15 the year before and desperate for leadership and frankly Pennington & his personality fit that to a tee. And yes, they needed a QB.

Minnesota wanted to go with the kid they drafted & felt they already had a veteran backup for a "just in case" scenario.

With a month to go before the season starts (or less, since you advocated holding him for 2 weeks), not every team is looking for a QB who won't accept a backup role. And to screw next year's cap when Tannenbaum (whatever faults he has) is well aware of the situation that was to come up a year later.

You also assume Favre was willing to shuffle around his contract for the Jets. That would have meant his clear release from the team in 2009 as you laid it out, because he wouldn't have taken less than his current contract called for ($13M) in 2009, plus there would have been a multi-million dolllar cap amortization.

I don't know how it works exactly, but what you can do in amortizing a signing bonus isn't the same for players under contract (who you're redoing) and players who are new to the team. Otherwise the Jets could just move around like $30M in roster bonuses for 2009 which they apparently cannot.

I don't think it was a hasty decision. I seriously doubt they got Favre and then (and only then) sat around the table like a bunch of dufuses and for the first time wondered, "Hey, so what should we do with Pennington?"

[Boynton Beach Jets]

You assume we could have done that. I do not.

Pennington's attraction to the Dolphins was for more than 1 reason. Parcells had drafted him. He's had some success. Their team was 1-15 the year before and desperate for leadership and frankly Pennington & his personality fit that to a tee. And yes, they needed a QB.

Minnesota wanted to go with the kid they drafted & felt they already had a veteran backup for a "just in case" scenario.

With a month to go before the season starts (or less, since you advocated holding him for 2 weeks), not every team is looking for a QB who won't accept a backup role. And to screw next year's cap when Tannenbaum (whatever faults he has) is well aware of the situation that was to come up a year later.

You also assume Favre was willing to shuffle around his contract for the Jets. That would have meant his clear release from the team in 2009 as you laid it out, because he wouldn't have taken less than his current contract called for ($13M) in 2009, plus there would have been a multi-million dolllar cap amortization.

I don't know how it works exactly, but what you can do in amortizing a signing bonus isn't the same for players under contract (who you're redoing) and players who are new to the team. Otherwise the Jets could just move around like $30M in roster bonuses for 2009 which they apparently cannot.

I don't think it was a hasty decision. I seriously doubt they got Favre and then (and only then) sat around the table like a bunch of dufuses and for the first time wondered, "Hey, so what should we do with Pennington?"

I agree that a lot of my presumptions are "what ifs". I think there would of been a team or two interested in Pennington including KC and Minn. Minn might of brought Chad to back up one of the kids. My point in this thread is I like the job Tannenbaum has done with the Jets, but if I have one knock on him is that he could have done better with the Pennington situation.

[Sperm Edwards]

I agree that a lot of my presumptions are "what ifs". I think there would of been a team or two interested in Pennington including KC and Minn. Minn might of brought Chad to back up one of the kids. My point in this thread is I like the job Tannenbaum has done with the Jets, but if I have one knock on him is that he could have done better with the Pennington situation.

Chad would have resisted going anywhere to be a backup. The HC's in both KC and Minnesota said the starting job was already written in stone.

And to send Chad back to Herm so he could end up in the hospital in a week is just cruel.

[Boynton Beach Jets]

Chad would have resisted going anywhere to be a backup. The HC's in both KC and Minnesota said the starting job was already written in stone.

And to send Chad back to Herm so he could end up in the hospital in a week is just cruel.

Chad was under contract and would not have much choice. I think you might have eluded to the reason the Tannenbaum/Mangini let Penington go the way they did and that was the Jets felt they owed it to Pennington and they wanted to do the right thing for Pennington. I do not agree with this I think you got to the right thing for the Jets.

[Sperm Edwards]

Chad was under contract and would not have much choice. I think you might have eluded to the reason the Tannenbaum/Mangini let Penington go the way they did and that was the Jets felt they owed it to Pennington and they wanted to do the right thing for Pennington. I do not agree with this I think you got to the right thing for the Jets.

Chad's base salary was $6M. No one's trading something for him to be a backup at that number. He has to agree to take less money; they can't force it on him. Which brings us back to: he'd only take less money if it meant he could be the starter. He said as much, and followed through on that when he signed with Miami.

I flat-out disagree they did it because they felt they "owed" anything to a player they already paid some $40M to. They really had no choice. You can't hold him and have Favre & Pennington both on the roster, in the locker room together, at practice together, and divide the team for a week or two right before the season begins. Fast. Off like one of Woody's Band-Aid's was the only way to do it. There was a whole season coming up that they had invested mega-bucks in during free agency (not to mention with the acquisition of Favre). You don't risk all that because you have a slim hope to recoup a late-round draft pick.

[Boynton Beach Jets]

Chad's base salary was $6M. No one's trading something for him to be a backup at that number. He has to agree to take less money; they can't force it on him. Which brings us back to: he'd only take less money if it meant he could be the starter. He said as much, and followed through on that when he signed with Miami.

I flat-out disagree they did it because they felt they "owed" anything to a player they already paid some $40M to. They really had no choice. You can't hold him and have Favre & Pennington both on the roster, in the locker room together, at practice together, and divide the team for a week or two right before the season begins. Fast. Off like one of Woody's Band-Aid's was the only way to do it. There was a whole season coming up that they had invested mega-bucks in during free agency (not to mention with the acquisition of Favre). You don't risk all that because you have a slim hope to recoup a late-round draft pick.

The Jets could have paid a portion of that $6 million and traded Chad would have little say.

They could of had Chad sit out practice until they were able to deal him. If there were no takers they could have released him closer to the season and this brings up the question they wanted to do the right thing for Chad. If they waited to closer to the season it would of prevented Miami from getting him and starting him.

[slats]

The Jets could have paid a portion of that $6 million and traded Chad would have little say.

You can't do that in the NFL. That would be circumventing the cap.

They could of had Chad sit out practice until they were able to deal him. If there were no takers they could have released him closer to the season and this brings up the question they wanted to do the right thing for Chad. If they waited to closer to the season it would of prevented Miami from getting him and starting him.

The raw fact is that the Jets had to make room for Favre's salary as soon as they traded for him. They had a couple days to do it. Every team in the league knew the Jets had to unload Chad, so no one was going to step up to the plate to give them a draft pick just for the pleasure of paying him his bloated contract. Simple as that.

The decision to trade for Favre was assinine on a variety of levels. Getting nothing for Chad and having him land in the same division is just one of them.