Lurker Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Bloomberg News The New Jersey Giants and Jets were sued by a fan who claims the football teams are illegally forcing thousands of season-ticket holders to buy so-called personal seat licenses to finance a new $1.6-billion stadium. The teams are violating competition law by requiring at least 45,000 season-ticket holders to make one-time payments of $1,000 to $25,000 for permanent licenses to buy future season tickets, according to a proposed class-action, or group, lawsuit filed March 16 in federal court in Newark, New Jersey. The teams allegedly plan to confiscate the PSLs if fans stop buying season tickets after the National Football League arena opens in 2010. The Jets and Giants "fixed the prices for PSLs and 2010 season tickets at artificial, supra-competitive prices that were established by defendants to maximize near-term revenue and profits," Harold Oshinsky, a retired fan who has held Giants season tickets for 30 years, said in the 76-page complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 This lawsuit should go far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLs StepChild Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 This lawsuit should go far. WAIT!!! PSLs don't benefit the fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Why did you change "New York" to "New Jersey" in the opening line? You made it look like Bloomberg reported it that was when it did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 This lawsuit should go far. Oh, I didn't know you were a lawyer specializing in corporation/consumer law with expertise in anti-trust/competition rules. I'm not about to waste my time reading 76 pages for no reason, but I'm not about to write this off considering the NFL caved for fear of lawsuits for not running the Giants-Pats games outside of the NFL network, that seemed a far flimsier case to me than this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLs StepChild Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Why did you change "New York" to "New Jersey" in the opening line? You made it look like Bloomberg reported it that was when it did not. LOL. Wow. Nice catch Bob. Somebody has a jersey complex... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 You made it look like Bloomberg reported it that was when it did not. it is a lawsuit in Newark, New Jersey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLs StepChild Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 it is a lawsuit in Newark, New Jersey. LOL, NO. You edited the team from the "New York Giants and Jets" to the "New Jersey Giants and Jets" which is clear as day when you look at the OP and then click the link to the website you got the story from. It's the first line of the article. Awesome!!! Sorry Jersey, you are still in the shadow of the Big Apple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Bloomberg News The New Jersey Giants and Jets were sued by a fan who claims the football teams are illegally forcing thousands of season-ticket holders to buy so-called personal seat licenses to finance a new $1.6-billion stadium. The teams are violating competition law by requiring at least 45,000 season-ticket holders to make one-time payments of $1,000 to $25,000 for permanent licenses to buy future season tickets, according to a proposed class-action, or group, lawsuit filed March 16 in federal court in Newark, New Jersey. The teams allegedly plan to confiscate the PSLs if fans stop buying season tickets after the National Football League arena opens in 2010. The Jets and Giants "fixed the prices for PSLs and 2010 season tickets at artificial, supra-competitive prices that were established by defendants to maximize near-term revenue and profits," Harold Oshinsky, a retired fan who has held Giants season tickets for 30 years, said in the 76-page complaint. What exactly does this mean? 1) "maximizing near term revenue and profits" isn't a legal wrong. 2) Neither the New York Jets nor the New York Giants have a monopoly on football tickets in the area; for one thing, there are two teams (so it would have to be a duopoly) and their pricing structure is different (so allegations of price fixing go out the window). Football fans can also go to arena league games, Bills games, Eagles games, or just watch on TV. 3) The Jets and Giants aren't "price fixing" (i.e. limiting the price another can charge for their product); they are selling their own product (rights to seats) themselves, at prices they selected. If that's "price fixing", then everyone selling a product is doing it. 4) "Supra-competitive prices" is a meaningless term, and the jets and Giants are letting the market determine the prices; if not enough people buy PSLs at the price point the teams set, they'll either drop the price or sell the seats as yearly first-come, first-serve, no PSL seats. I'm not sure why this guy thinks he has a claim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 LOL, NO. You edited the team from the "New York Giants and Jets" to the "New Jersey Giants and Jets" which is clear as day when you look at the OP and then click the link to the website you got the story from. It's the first line of the article. Awesome!!! Sorry Jersey, you are still in the shadow of the Big Apple. LOL, WHAT is your point? I've been to New Jersey only to attend Jets games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLs StepChild Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 LOL, WHAT is your point? I've been to New Jersey only to attend Jets games. Was I not clear? Go to the OP. Look at the 3rd word in the post "Jersey" Then click the link for Bloomberg News Look at the 3rd word in the post "York" Either you changed it or the writer on Bloomberg did. But either way it's funny to me that people still feel the need to try and rename the NY teams to associate them with Joisey because of some sort of little brother, second city complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETROCK Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Talk about a frivolous lawsuit. You have the choice to buy season tickets where you are forced to pay for the PSLs or you stop being a season ticket holder. Personally I'd love it if every season ticket holder from last season chose not to renew their season tickets for this year and for no one to purchase any season tickets from the Jets at all. That would stick it to Woody Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlubin11 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 More important is the poor consumer protection in the PSL agreement which gives them the right to up the ticket prices and if you dont renew they sieze the PSL without recourse or renumeration. They could choose to raise the ticket price in the section next to the coaches club from 140 per game up to 350 in year 2. if you chose not to pay the 350, they could reclaim the PSL you paid 25k for. Obviously they wouldnt look to jack the prices up to reclaim the PSL so high that there was no demand, but you are really unable to tell the true cost of the contract you are signing. They really owe it to the fans to cap out the ticket prices for some period of time, because any team that charges 400-700 per game plus PSL including pre season could really not surprise me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 This is retarded... nobody is putting a gun to your head saying you have to... You cannot sue someone because they are greedy or they suck at making customers happy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 This is retarded... nobody is putting a gun to your head saying you have to... You cannot sue someone because they are greedy or they suck at making customers happy... No, you can, actually. You'll just lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 No, you can, actually. You'll just lose. The JETS should now sue back for slander... Seriously... some people are way to bitter over it... it is a business... I know it sucks... but if you dont want PSls you do not have to buy them... tickets for most games will be available on Ebay and such too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Is this the same lawyer who sued the Patriots over spygate (on behalf of all 78,000 people at the Meadowlands on opening day in 2007)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I think the main part of the lawsuit, without actually reading it, is this: 1) You have to put up a lump-sum of money, for example $5000. 2) You have to purchase tickets or you lose your PSL and get no money back. (ok so far) 3) The team didn't make the ticket prices sensational -- YET. 4) They can quadruple the prices, cause people to lose their PSL's if they can't afford the tickets, then re-lower the price & sell the same PSL to someone else. In that case, it isn't totally frivolous. And the teams probably wouldn't do that anyway because no one's paying $400 avg per seat per game for mediocre or worse seats. But it does bring all prospective buyers back to the initial point: you do not have to purchase them. The Jets and Giants are not the phone company or the cable company or some necessary (or near-necessary) service provider. Monopoly, di-opoly, or whatever you want to call it. No one NEEDS season tickets to the Jets or Giants. This will get thrown out I'm sure. But if the team(s) doubled the ticket prices shortly after taking everyone's PSL money then it would not be frivolous at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I think the main part of the lawsuit, without actually reading it, is this: 1) You have to put up a lump-sum of money, for example $5000. 2) You have to purchase tickets or you lose your PSL and get no money back. (ok so far) 3) The team didn't make the ticket prices sensational -- YET. 4) They can quadruple the prices, cause people to lose their PSL's if they can't afford the tickets, then re-lower the price & sell the same PSL to someone else. In that case, it isn't totally frivolous. And the teams probably wouldn't do that anyway because no one's paying $400 avg per seat per game for mediocre or worse seats. But it does bring all prospective buyers back to the initial point: you do not have to purchase them. The Jets and Giants are not the phone company or the cable company or some necessary (or near-necessary) service provider. Monopoly, di-opoly, or whatever you want to call it. No one NEEDS season tickets to the Jets or Giants. This will get thrown out I'm sure. But if the team(s) doubled the ticket prices shortly after taking everyone's PSL money then it would not be frivolous at all. Ever hear the line... "Prices subject to change" If they jacked up the prices you can still sell your PSL to someone who can afford it... They make no promises of what the PSL will be worth.. if the prices go way up you might not be able to recoup your entire PSL... but thats a risk you take... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Jet Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 said in the 76-page complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Ever hear the line... "Prices subject to change" If they jacked up the prices you can still sell your PSL to someone who can afford it... They make no promises of what the PSL will be worth.. if the prices go way up you might not be able to recoup your entire PSL... but thats a risk you take... If they do that, the PSL's value will drop. But there is one easy solution: do not buy the PSL's if you're not willing to take that risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 No one NEEDS season tickets to the Jets or Giants. I do. Its the only thing that makes my life worth living. How can I go on with life without witnessing live the Jets falling apart at the seams every year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 PSL's suck. All the best to the people on the board that sign the contract heavily weighed in the Jets favour. There will be no legal recourse if the Jets decide to make tickets $500 a seat in 2011. Pay those ticket prices or sell your PSL (for a loss). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebabyny Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Ever hear the line... "Prices subject to change" If they jacked up the prices you can still sell your PSL to someone who can afford it... They make no promises of what the PSL will be worth.. if the prices go way up you might not be able to recoup your entire PSL... but thats a risk you take... prices subject to change is usually for something you haven't actually bought yet. In the case of the psl you are pretty much putting a huge down payment on something where you don't know the actual final price. If the jets raise prices and someone wants out they should get a pro-rated refund on their psl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 prices subject to change is usually for something you haven't actually bought yet. In the case of the psl you are pretty much putting a huge down payment on something where you don't know the actual final price. If the jets raise prices and someone wants out they should get a pro-rated refund on their psl. It is something you have not actually bought yet... your buying the PSL to have the right to buy tickets in the future that do not exist yet... for a product (team) that does not exist yet... This goes both ways... if the JETS go and win 4 straight Superbowls you can sell your PSL for a nice profit... Its a risk you take... Should we sue Costco? They make us pay ahead of time for the right to buy their future products/services... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 How can I go on with life without witnessing live the Jets falling apart at the seams every year... I've come to appreciate the simplicity of watching the Jets suck on television. The seats are more comfortable and the beer is cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I've come to appreciate the simplicity of watching the Jets suck on television. The seats are more comfortable and the beer is cheaper. The beer is cheaper anywhere beside the stadium 9 dollar cups. I will be perfectly content to watch games at a bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 The beer is cheaper anywhere beside the stadium 9 dollar cups. I will be perfectly content to watch games at a bar. A flask is your friend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4HCrew Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Maybe this guy should put the time and money invested into this lawsuit towards his PSL.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I've come to appreciate the simplicity of watching the Jets suck on television. The seats are more comfortable and the beer is cheaper. I enjoy the torture of waking up at 6am on a sunday to drive 4 hours to watch the jets break my heart then driving home 4 hours and rehashing the entire game in my head. its one of the few pleasures in my life. And I dont think ive ever bought stadium beer or food. and grilling out on the deck and pissing in my toilet will never replace spending 15 bucks to tailgate on a sh!tty grill in a dirty parking lot and pissing in a port-a-potty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Awesome!!! Sorry Jersey, you are still in the shadow of the Big Apple. Unless you live in Manhattan, you really don't have much of a leg to stand on... Long Island... yeah, you're real New Yorkers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 this one will go nowhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebabyny Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 [quote name='Blackout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I think the main part of the lawsuit, without actually reading it, is this: 1) You have to put up a lump-sum of money, for example $5000. 2) You have to purchase tickets or you lose your PSL and get no money back. (ok so far) 3) The team didn't make the ticket prices sensational -- YET. 4) They can quadruple the prices, cause people to lose their PSL's if they can't afford the tickets, then re-lower the price & sell the same PSL to someone else. In that case, it isn't totally frivolous. And the teams probably wouldn't do that anyway because no one's paying $400 avg per seat per game for mediocre or worse seats. Nope, still frivolous. For one thing, claiming "but under these terms the teams could, hypothetically, at some unknown future point, screw over the purchasers" doesn't give you a right to sue (any more than you can sue Ford because you might, at some future date, get injured in a horrific car accident due to a faulty Ford part). For another, were the Jets or Giants to hike up the prices to free up the PSLs and then lower them again to resell the PSLs, that would be a breach of the covenant of good faith and fair dealing implied in all contracts (essentially, even where a contract provides you discretion, you cannot use that discretion as a means of depriving the other party of the benefit of his bargain) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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