Who is the best 3-4 OLB prospect?

[HessStation]

Derrick Morgan

6'3 266

Combine: DNB/ 4.70

2009: 55 tackles/12.5 sacks

Jason Pierre-Paul

6'4 1/2 270

Combine: 19 reps/4.70

2009: 45 tackles/6.5 sacks

Brandon Graham

6'1 268

Combine: 31 reps/4.69

2009: 64 tackles/10.5 sacks

Jerry Hughes

6'1 1/2 255

Combine: 26 reps/4.63

2009: 58 tackles/11.5 sacks

Sergio Kindle

6'2 1/2 250

Combine: 25 reps/4.68

2009: 70 tackles/5.5 sacks (but 10 in 08)

Carlos Dunlap

6'5 1/2 277

Combine: 21 reps/4.63

2009: 38 tackles/ 9 sacks

Ricky Sapp

6'3 1/2 252

Combine: 23 reps/4.63

2009: 60 tackles/5 sacks

[SMC]

From that list I'd say Graham, despite the short arms and the question about his 40 (he should be ready for his pro day).

[HessStation]

From that list I'd say Graham, despite the short arms and the question about his 40 (he should be ready for his pro day).

Because he had a good 40 at the combine (4.69) he didn't run on his pro day.

Graham is probably the best "football player" on the list. I think I agree with you SMC. But there is a lot of talent there.

[HessStation]

I wish I knew how to do polls...if any mods could help with that...possibly?

[SMC]

Because he had a good 40 at the combine (4.69) he didn't run on his pro day.

Graham is probably the best "football player" on the list. I think I agree with you SMC. But there is a lot of talent there.

Michigan already had it's pro day?

Crap, I must be in a dream land.

Also, I swore that Graham tweaked a hammy at the combine and didn't run. I guess I was thinking about someone esle.

[HessStation]

Michigan already had it's pro day?

Crap, I must be in a dream land.

Also, I swore that Graham tweaked a hammy at the combine and didn't run. I guess I was thinking about someone esle.

No worries SMC here's a little more info from Michigan Pro day:

Michigan

Brandon Graham stood on his combine numbers and did not run today.

Safety Stevie Brown was very impressive. Brown measured just under 5116/212-pounds, ran 40 times which ranged in the mid-4.4 second area and an impressive three cone time of 6.61 seconds. He also completed 23 reps on the bench and had a vertical jump of 35 inches. Brown, who played linebacker last season, is someone we really liked off the 2008 film. Evidently the New York Jets also like Brown as they spent a lot of time quizzing former UM coach Lloyd Carr about his recruit before spending significant time with Brown. The Green Bay Packers have also expressed interest in Brown.

Cornerback Donovan Warren was clocked as fast as 4.55 seconds today, significantly better than his combine time. Is it enough to move him into the draft’s top three rounds? We don’t think so.

Receiver Greg Matthews measured 6020/205-pounds and ran times between 4.55-to-4.61 seconds.

[derp]

Graham is the best pass rusher IMO and also very stout against the run. However, Jerry Hughes is a fantastic rush OLB prospect in his own right IMO. Very fluid and a slightly better athlete than Graham and also a prolific pass rusher in college. Hughes has more questions about level of competition coming from TCU versus Graham who abused Bulaga out of Iowa who's going to get taken in the first as a tackle, but Hughes could be a really nice fit for the Jets in late round 1 if they elect to go in that direction. Both are guys with great motors who play nasty so they just seem like they'd be great fits on this defense. Offer slightly different things but I could see either one of them drafted and excelling here. Hughes seems to have a much better shot of being around at 29 though, Graham should be gone by the time the Jets pick.

Graham did yank his hammy at the combine BTW, I want to say after running the 40 once. What he was unable to do was the linebacker drills for those teams who want to see him transition into a 3-4. Apparently he played some LB before coming to Michigan so it shouldn't be a bad transition, but teams obviously still want to see how he looks standing up. Hughes excelled in those drills, so that coupled with his good tape getting after the QB makes him a really nice rush OLB prospect.

Kindle is also a violent guy who has a lot of experience standing up and moving around on defense, even played safety in HS, and looks tremendous at times but is still really raw rushing the passer. He's really highly regarded but I view him as kind of risky, that's just a personal thing though lots of people really like him.

Morgan and JPP to me are both guys who are better in a 4-3, Morgan is a little more experienced and has much better production in college but lots of people really like JPP's tape despite a lack of production and he's a big, rangy athlete. Seems to really be a boom or bust type though. Morgan's not getting a ton of hype right now but he's a solid all-around end prospect who has some nice moves rushing the passer and can play the run, don't love him in the 3-4 though.

Dunlap has off the field issues and hasn't put it all together on the field with a shaky motor, not a Ryan guy at all I highly doubt that we draft him. If he goes to a 3-4 team I think he's best off bulking up to play end like Calais Campbell did for the Cardinals a little while ago, but he's best off in a 4-3 as well.

Finally Sapp is a guy who a lot of people like, has the measurables and fluidity to stand up and do it well and he's looked good rushing the passer at points, but kind of like Dunlap again his production and tape won't really match his skill set. He's a guy who will flash but is somebody who you're betting you can coach up and the light will go off for someday, and I just don't think that's ever a good sign in the draft. Those scenarios rarely work out.

My thoughts at least. As a pure 3-4 OLB I actually kind of like Hughes the best since I love his combo of fluidity and pass rushing ability but Graham also is definitely better rushing the passer and I would say is the consensus best 3-4 OLB prospect. Kindle is a bit of a risky guy IMO but really is very versatile and comfortable standing up, you just have to work with him on getting to the QB a bit but that's something he's done and excelled at and has the ability to do very well, he's just raw there. I think his versatility could really be valued by us and he's a guy who could get a long look if he's on the board, depends what they think of how he'll be able to rush the passer though since that's the priority. But he could be a monster in a hybrid scheme. Sapp has all of the tools but hasn't put it together and really isn't in Kindle's class as a pass rusher anyway, and I don't really love any of the other guys listed in the 3-4.

Finally, a guy to keep an eye on is Jason Worilds from Virginia Tech. Probably a second or third rounder and he came out early, but he's got that short, compact explosive build that guys like Dumervil and Freeney have excelled with. Ran well at the combine, a good athlete, and another explosive and violent type who looks decent standing up and produced well. Also Eric Norwood out of South Carolina is a great all-around football player, but doesn't have the ideal measurables but he does a lot of things well, has played both end and linebacker, and is at his best getting after the QB.

Sorry for the long post, kind of got a little carried away there. I really think OLB is a direction that could be interesting to go in, I'll be curious to see who we take if we do go in that direction.

[Ghost]

I like Graham and Sergio Kindle IMO. Morgan will most likely be playing DE in a 4-3 Defense.

[penguini 15]

I like Graham a lot, but I want him at DE. Pass rushing defensive end is the position we need.

[slats]

I like Graham a lot, but I want him at DE. Pass rushing defensive end is the position we need.

Too small for a 3-4 DE, which is what the Jets need.

I don't expect them to draft any OLB's in this year's draft. They're already paying out a lot of money at the position to Pace, Thomas, and Gholston, and Adalius Thomas may become available soon, too. Just don't see it.

I know people want to see an improved pass rush, but the pass rush improved when the Jets traded for Cromartie. The already blitz-happy Jets immediately got happier. It's not the concern some folks are making it out to be. Jets had the #1 passing defense in the NFL last year, fer god's sake.

[HessStation]

Too small for a 3-4 DE, which is what the Jets need.

I don't expect them to draft any OLB's in this year's draft. They're already paying out a lot of money at the position to Pace, Thomas, and Gholston, and Adalius Thomas may become available soon, too. Just don't see it.

I know people want to see an improved pass rush, but the pass rush improved when the Jets traded for Cromartie. The already blitz-happy Jets immediately got happier. It's not the concern some folks are making it out to be. Jets had the #1 passing defense in the NFL last year, fer god's sake.

OK. Then who? If you look at needs...

DE- You really want Jared Odrick? Any other 3-4 DE will be a reach

NT- Well, as we look at the roster that position is as filled as OLB.

ILB- Nope

CB- You really think they are going to draft a nickle back in the first round with both starting CB under 26?

S- Same as at DE. You'll be looking at a lot of reaches. Berry and Thomas will be gone

OL- You don't pick OL in the first who probably won't start for quite possibly another two years

QB- Nope

RB- Not now, not this year

TE- Nope

WR- Possibly, but the need is really for a slot WR which could be found throughout the draft

[slats]

OK. Then who? If you look at needs...

DE- You really want Jared Odrick? Any other 3-4 DE will be a reach

NT- Well, as we look at the roster that position is as filled as OLB.

ILB- Nope

CB- You really think they are going to draft a nickle back in the first round with both starting CB under 26?

S- Same as at DE. You'll be looking at a lot of reaches. Berry and Thomas will be gone

OL- You don't pick OL in the first who probably start for quite possibly another two years

QB- Nope

RB- Not now, not this year

TE- Nope

WR- Possibly, but the need is really for a slot WR which could be found throughout the draft

3-4 DE is the only starter hole that I see on the current roster, so that would be the best need/value match if Odrick is there.

Next two biggest needs are 3rd WR and 3rd CB, followed by S.

I'd say it's most likely that the value will be there at WR, where the Jets don't need just a slot receiver, but a guy who can step in and start if needed. Jets have absolutely no depth at the position. David Clowney got a start or two last year, I believe. Can't have that!

OLB is as far down the list as RB, IMHO. A position I wouldn't expect to be high on the Jets' list until next year.

So BAP between DE, WR, CB, and possibly S. That's my best guess. If nothing's there, I'd love to see them finagle a trade down and add a pick or two.

[Marky Mark Sanchez]

If we can trade down I have no doubt that we will. But it's often easier said than done. I think teams will highly covet their picks in this years' talent-heavy draft and I expect the Jets to draft DE in the first, CB in the second and address WR via the Marshall trade

[HessStation]

3-4 DE is the only starter hole that I see on the current roster, so that would be the best need/value match if Odrick is there.

Next two biggest needs are 3rd WR and 3rd CB, followed by S.

I'd say it's most likely that the value will be there at WR, where the Jets don't need just a slot receiver, but a guy who can step in and start is needed. Jets have absolutely no depth at the position. David Clowney got a start or two last year, I believe. Can't have that!

OLB is as far down the list as RB, IMHO. A position I wouldn't expect to be high on the Jets' list until next year.

So BAP between DE, WR, CB, and possibly S. That's my best guess. If nothing's there, I'd love to see them finagle a trade down and add a pick or two.

I strongly disagree. To me it is the #1 need for this team. DeVito I would say is penciled in as the starting DE right now.

What I'm saying is the depth chart/roster is filled and the Jets still don't have the #1 most important need for any 3-4 Defense...which is an edge rusher.

I agree with you that they will/should draft BPA (minus QB, OT, OG, C, TE, CB, ILB).... They are saying the Jets were giving Odrick a close look and some experts are claiming Odrick may be gone before 29. I hope so as I've watched Penn State games and imo he is being overrated due to the fact that he fits the 34 mold perfectly. There IS talent there (at 34 DE) but just not in the first.

[slats]

I strongly disagree. To me it is the #1 need for this team. DeVito I would say is penciled in as the starting DE right now.

What I'm saying is the depth chart/roster is filled and the Jets still don't have the #1 most important need for any 3-4 Defense...which is an edge rusher.

I agree with you that they will/should draft BPA (minus QB, OT, OG, C, TE, CB, ILB).... They are saying the Jets were giving Odrick a close look and some experts are claiming Odrick may be gone before 29. I hope so as I've watched Penn State games and imo he is being overrated due to the fact that he fits the 34 mold perfectly. There IS talent there (at 34 DE) but just not in the first.

We'll have to agree to disagree 'til the draft then, I suppose.

I see Rex targeting DB's before LB's. I could easily see them not draft a single LB in this year's draft. With two solid man-to-man CB's, the Jets are going to be much more aggressive with their blitzing this year. Jets will send everybody at different times, or all at the same time. They really don't need that one edge rusher when they're so free to send the cavalry.

And having made a $50M investment at QB last year, I could definitely see them compliment him with a 1st round WR.

[HessStation]

We'll have to agree to disagree 'til the draft then, I suppose.

I see Rex targeting DB's before LB's. I could easily see them not draft a single LB in this year's draft. With two solid man-to-man CB's, the Jets are going to be much more aggressive with their blitzing this year. Jets will send everybody at different times, or all at the same time. They really don't need that one edge rusher when they're so free to send the cavalry.

And having made a $50M investment at QB last year, I could definitely see them compliment him with a 1st round WR.

Understood but i think people are putting too much weight into Rex love of blitzing the house everytime. You can disguise coverages A LOT easier if you have an edge rusher who can get to the QB without bringing the house.

It would be another bullet in his gun. One he did not have last year. I like Westerman too and he showed flashes, I get that, but i'm not putting all my eggs in the Westerman basket. And Gholston for that matter.

But I can see WR too. OLB or WR BPA imo. But who knows for sure I guess.

Maybe a Toby Gerhart or Tyson Alualu shocks the world...ya never know.

[slats]

Understood but i think people are putting too much weight into Rex love of blitzing the house everytime. You can disguise coverages A LOT easier if you have an edge rusher who can get to the QB without bringing the house.

It would be another bullet in his gun. One he did not have last year. I like Westerman too and he showed flashes, I get that, but i'm not putting all my eggs in the Westerman basket. And Gholston for that matter.

But I can see WR too. OLB or WR BPA imo.

I could see the CB in the first round, too, if that's where the value is. Cromartie's no lock beyond this year, and needing to get past teams like NE, Indy, and SD, to play teams like Minny or NO in the Super Bowl, you need CB's. You need a solid nickel, and you need the depth in case a guy gets hurt. More important than that edge rusher, IMO. I think more important to Rex, too.

Jets managed well when replacing Pace with Gholston last year, but could you imagine replacing Revis with Lowery for any extended period of time? Jets dee is predicated on solid CB play.

[HessStation]

I could see the CB in the first round, too, if that's where the value is. Cromartie's no lock beyond this year, and needing to get past teams like NE, Indy, and SD, to play teams like Minny or NO in the Super Bowl, you need CB's. You need a solid nickel, and you need the depth in case a guy gets hurt. More important than that edge rusher, IMO. I think more important to Rex, too.

Jets managed well when replacing Pace with Gholston last year, but could you imagine replacing Revis with Lowery for any extended period of time? Jets dee is predicated on solid CB play.

You make a strong argument and one for me to consider. However I shall remain...your nemesis in this debate.

You are still one of my faves for what it's worth. As you've stated, we shall agree...to disagree. Erin Go Bragh.

[Ghost]

Too small for a 3-4 DE, which is what the Jets need.

I don't expect them to draft any OLB's in this year's draft. They're already paying out a lot of money at the position to Pace, Thomas, and Gholston, and Adalius Thomas may become available soon, too. Just don't see it.

I know people want to see an improved pass rush, but the pass rush improved when the Jets traded for Cromartie. The already blitz-happy Jets immediately got happier. It's not the concern some folks are making it out to be. Jets had the #1 passing defense in the NFL last year, fer god's sake.

But the Jets still lack an edge pass rusher. I know we're paying Pace and Gholston (I hope he dies) a lot of money, but we need to keep going after pass rushers until we find a dominate one.

3-4 Defensive Ends are easier to replace than an OLB.

[HessStation]

But the Jets still lack an edge pass rusher. I know we're paying Pace and Gholston (I hope he dies) a lot of money, but we need to keep going after pass rushers until we find a dominate one.

3-4 Defensive Ends are easier to replace than an OLB.

Welcome to the club Ghost.

[Ghost]

Welcome to the club Ghost.

[T0mShane]

FWIW (zero, really), Lindy's draft guide has us taking Ricky Sapp in their mock. Whatever.

[JustInFudge]

You make a strong argument and one for me to consider. However I shall remain...your nemesis in this debate.

You are still one of my faves for what it's worth. As you've stated, we shall agree...to disagree. Erin Go Bragh.

Am I still one of your favs if I agree with Slats on this one?

I dont know when or where yet, but I want the Jets to draft a DE, WR, CB and OL in this draft. Right now I see a lot of talent in the later rounds at DE and we might be able to get a top WR in the first. But that goes against my normal methodology of taking the bigs early and taking WR late...unless, you are getting top notch talent.

So I dont know what I want yet. But to answer you question. I like Graham that best as well...but think Kindle could be a beast.

[HessStation]

Am I still one of your favs if I agree with Slats on this one?

I dont know when or where yet, but I want the Jets to draft a DE, WR, CB and OL in this draft. Right now I see a lot of talent in the later rounds at DE and we might be able to get a top WR in the first. But that goes against my normal methodology of taking the bigs early and taking WR late...unless, you are getting top notch talent.

So I dont know what I want yet. But to answer you question. I like Graham that best as well...but think Kindle could be a beast.

You will always be the wind beneath my wings but YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG.

Just kidding, well actually not really. Edge rusher is the way to go!

Everyone seems to love Graham first. I find that interesting with so much talent in that list. He would probably be my first choice too but I sort of have a man crush on Hughes and Kindle as well.

[CoachTsurfing]

Because he had a good 40 at the combine (4.69) he didn't run on his pro day.

Graham is probably the best "football player" on the list. I think I agree with you SMC. But there is a lot of talent there.

bunch of good players, but bunch of attitude and stupidity.

[CoachTsurfing]

Graham is the best pass rusher IMO and also very stout against the run. However, Jerry Hughes is a fantastic rush OLB prospect in his own right IMO. Very fluid and a slightly better athlete than Graham and also a prolific pass rusher in college. Hughes has more questions about level of competition coming from TCU versus Graham who abused Bulaga out of Iowa who's going to get taken in the first as a tackle, but Hughes could be a really nice fit for the Jets in late round 1 if they elect to go in that direction. Both are guys with great motors who play nasty so they just seem like they'd be great fits on this defense. Offer slightly different things but I could see either one of them drafted and excelling here. Hughes seems to have a much better shot of being around at 29 though, Graham should be gone by the time the Jets pick.

Graham did yank his hammy at the combine BTW, I want to say after running the 40 once. What he was unable to do was the linebacker drills for those teams who want to see him transition into a 3-4. Apparently he played some LB before coming to Michigan so it shouldn't be a bad transition, but teams obviously still want to see how he looks standing up. Hughes excelled in those drills, so that coupled with his good tape getting after the QB makes him a really nice rush OLB prospect.

Kindle is also a violent guy who has a lot of experience standing up and moving around on defense, even played safety in HS, and looks tremendous at times but is still really raw rushing the passer. He's really highly regarded but I view him as kind of risky, that's just a personal thing though lots of people really like him.

Morgan and JPP to me are both guys who are better in a 4-3, Morgan is a little more experienced and has much better production in college but lots of people really like JPP's tape despite a lack of production and he's a big, rangy athlete. Seems to really be a boom or bust type though. Morgan's not getting a ton of hype right now but he's a solid all-around end prospect who has some nice moves rushing the passer and can play the run, don't love him in the 3-4 though.

Dunlap has off the field issues and hasn't put it all together on the field with a shaky motor, not a Ryan guy at all I highly doubt that we draft him. If he goes to a 3-4 team I think he's best off bulking up to play end like Calais Campbell did for the Cardinals a little while ago, but he's best off in a 4-3 as well.

Finally Sapp is a guy who a lot of people like, has the measurables and fluidity to stand up and do it well and he's looked good rushing the passer at points, but kind of like Dunlap again his production and tape won't really match his skill set. He's a guy who will flash but is somebody who you're betting you can coach up and the light will go off for someday, and I just don't think that's ever a good sign in the draft. Those scenarios rarely work out.

My thoughts at least. As a pure 3-4 OLB I actually kind of like Hughes the best since I love his combo of fluidity and pass rushing ability but Graham also is definitely better rushing the passer and I would say is the consensus best 3-4 OLB prospect. Kindle is a bit of a risky guy IMO but really is very versatile and comfortable standing up, you just have to work with him on getting to the QB a bit but that's something he's done and excelled at and has the ability to do very well, he's just raw there. I think his versatility could really be valued by us and he's a guy who could get a long look if he's on the board, depends what they think of how he'll be able to rush the passer though since that's the priority. But he could be a monster in a hybrid scheme. Sapp has all of the tools but hasn't put it together and really isn't in Kindle's class as a pass rusher anyway, and I don't really love any of the other guys listed in the 3-4.

Finally, a guy to keep an eye on is Jason Worilds from Virginia Tech. Probably a second or third rounder and he came out early, but he's got that short, compact explosive build that guys like Dumervil and Freeney have excelled with. Ran well at the combine, a good athlete, and another explosive and violent type who looks decent standing up and produced well. Also Eric Norwood out of South Carolina is a great all-around football player, but doesn't have the ideal measurables but he does a lot of things well, has played both end and linebacker, and is at his best getting after the QB.

Sorry for the long post, kind of got a little carried away there. I really think OLB is a direction that could be interesting to go in, I'll be curious to see who we take if we do go in that direction.

it was so good, i wanted to quote even though it was so long. nice job.

[HessStation]

it was so good, i wanted to quote even though it was so long. nice job.

+1

[LionelRichie]

But the Jets still lack an edge pass rusher. I know we're paying Pace and Gholston (I hope he dies) a lot of money, but we need to keep going after pass rushers until we find a dominate one.

3-4 Defensive Ends are easier to replace than an OLB.

it will be interesting to see what Adalius Thomas has left in the tank during training camp next year. I don't think the jets draft OLB given gholston, pace, thomas, + a thomas coming this summer.

I don't know about 1st rd but the Jets definitely need to start build OL depth. I'd look S/CB/OL/DE in that order.

[villain_the_foe]

Brandon Graham

6'1 268

Combine: 31 reps/4.69

2009: 64 tackles/10.5 sacks

BEAST!

[villain_the_foe]

From that list I'd say Graham, despite the short arms and the question about his 40 (he should be ready for his pro day).

This kid is a BEAST, and though his arms isnt the longest he's ALWAYS around the ball...most of the time making the play. I really hope the Jets draft this kid. I've never seen him have a problem with his arm length. Guys a football player.

[SenorGato]

There's really no best...but I like Graham and Hardy the most. I think those guys are going to be big time players, especially Hardy. I think Hardy where he's rumored to be drafted is already the biggest steal in the draft in the making.

[TNJet]

Definately Jerry Hughes from TCU. Just watch the film. Yikes now thats speed off the edge we need.

[Greenseed4]

From that list I would say it's a two horse race:

Hughes and Graham... and it's not even close for the other guys listed.